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(The Atlantic)   If your doctor asks "What's your sign?" he or she isn't trying to hit on you; new studies indicate that your birth month can determine what maladies you may be struck with   (theatlantic.com) divider line 112
    More: PSA, philosophy of science, life chances, Hippocrates, social behavior, developmental disorder, developed country, births, sleep disorders  
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7646 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2013 at 9:06 AM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-16 02:55:21 PM

Bucky Katt: bullshiat


I remember an article in a sceptic's magazine that showed how your date of birth relative to your school district's cutoff for determining when you begin school had effects on your subsequent education and career that could follow you for the rest of your life.
 
2013-11-16 03:02:41 PM
Peki: Yes, but there are some places the scientific method doesn't hold up so well. It's not like you can actually control for weather phenomena. The only thing you can do is constantly write shiat down, and every once in a while go back and go, "Oh hey, when it's like this, it does this. Let's see if it does it again?"

Guess how I know you have never taken a climatology class.

 
No, there are some things that are too complex to model in a laboratory.  Can't make a black hole, or get enough volume to measure dark energy.

They are called numerical simulations. You figure out what physical laws apply and numerically model their affect. Then you adjust the drivers or strength of the drivers until the model matches a specific observation. Then you apply the initial conditions of other observations to see if your model can predict the known outcome. Finally, you make a prediction based on observed initial conditions and see if your predicted out come is correct. Between each step you add, subtract, or modify drivers to make it more accurate. Once it attains a certain level of accuracy, you let other people use it. Most weather forecasting is done this way.
 
2013-11-16 03:12:42 PM

flondrix: Bucky Katt: bullshiat

I remember an article in a sceptic's magazine that showed how your date of birth relative to your school district's cutoff for determining when you begin school had effects on your subsequent education and career that could follow you for the rest of your life.


That's not really the same thing...like, at all.
 
2013-11-16 04:01:08 PM

gfid: Interesting chart in the article.  I guess if you want your kids to be healthy, try to conceive so they'll be born in September.  (in the Northern hemisphere).

The sad thing is many people will look at that chart and if they suffer from any of those things or know someone who does who has the right birthday, they'll probably believe there's a stronger correlation and perhaps even a causation.

Also 1 in 4 Americans believe in Astrology?  We are dumb.


Actully what the chart is saying is that it is better to get pregnant in the spring and give birth in fall (so you are pregnant when there is a lot of abundant food, than to get pregnant in the summer and give birth in the spring. It is true that there are a lot of diseases and stresses in the winter months that aren't there in the summer months.
 
2013-11-16 04:16:20 PM

CowardlyLion: "Can modern medicine actually learn from stars and seasonality?"

No.

/there, I just saved you over 1600 words of utter bullshiat


Aaand yet the studies done on mice are proving you wrong. Circadian rhythms, biatch.

/Seriously, the science is solid, and there's a reason these traditions emerged: they  worked. Sure, far from perfectly, but if you didn't have the ability to synthesize valium, a nice cup of chamomile tea would work really damn well in its stead.
//Just because it's not in a pill form doesn't make it wrong.
 
2013-11-16 04:36:03 PM

FunkOut: Voiceofreason01: FunkOut: So I read the article and aside from a bunch of astrology stuff the author stuck in supposing this and that, the main body is that researchers noticed that there are statistically higher numbers of people with certain ailments born in a certain season. Not in a certain astrology sign but a season such as spring, summer, fall, winter.

So a bunch of other people read the article, see the word "astrology" and dismiss the entire thing as bullshiat when the actual research said nothing about astrology, only seasons. Things like "People born in March/April/May have a higher incidence of mental illness compared to those born in September/October".

The article is about astrology and the author(Elijah Wolfson) makes a bunch of misleading(and a few outright false) statements about science and astrology. I'll admit that I didn't finish the article but the first study that is linked in the article isn't even about what Wolfson claims it's about, even going so far as to use a quote from the study out of context to say something that was never intended by the author of the study. Whether or not the research in the studies cited here are any good is irrelevant since Wolfson doesn't honestly or accurately represent what they say in making his point.

I've read the research before about season affecting fetuses and health. I'd like to see research into comparison between countries close to the poles and countries on the equator. Finland versus Ecuador.

It's typical web journalism to spin a bit of information with a bunch of crap or opinions to make content. About as annoying as slideshows.


That's two comments of yours now I whole-heartedly agree with.
 
2013-11-16 04:40:59 PM
Makes me wonder if this sort of traditional assessment of people based on the season of their birth centers more on rainfall patterns in more equatorial places.

"Ravi was born during the Monsoon, he will be a fine warrior!"
 
2013-11-16 06:49:44 PM

greentea1985: Actully what the chart is saying is that it is better to get pregnant in the spring and give birth in fall (so you are pregnant when there is a lot of abundant food, than to get pregnant in the summer and give birth in the spring. It is true that there are a lot of diseases and stresses in the winter months that aren't there in the summer months.


People have known this since, well, forever.  There is an ancient chant that goes something like:

"The first of May!  The first of May!  Outdoor farking starts today!"

 
2013-11-16 07:43:05 PM

Peki: Cpl.D: Peki: Not surprised. The ancients knew not to look at an eclipse either, they just thought it was because it was incest between the gods.

/ancients had thousands of years to observe patterns and links. They may not have known why, but I'm willing to give them the benefit sometimes

The scientific method is the gold standard.  Astrology fails when tested.  Every.  Single.  Time.  It's because it's just systematic bollocks.

Yes, but there are some places the scientific method doesn't hold up so well. It's not like you can actually control for weather phenomena. The only thing you can do is constantly write shiat down, and every once in a while go back and go, "Oh hey, when it's like this, it does this. Let's see if it does it again?"


I had an experiment that was driving me crazy.  I'd do the experiment, and everything would show up at the same spot--the positive control, the negative control, and all the experimental lanes.  The next day, I would only do a series of controls, and it would work.  So the next day, I'd try to do the controls and experimental again...and it would fail.   We finally narrowed it down to the weather.  At room temperature, on a cold day, it was too chilly in the lab and everything would migrate at the same rate.  If I ran it a little hot, it always worked.

This is how random observations get turned into science.  We were racking our brains, and someone finally mentioned that it only worked on sunny days, mostly as a joke.  The key part is the next step:  We tested it by controlling the temperature, and found it to be true.

This article just finds correlations and then claims astrology must have something to it, though I think they meant to use astrology more as a convenient way to break up different birthday groups.  Until someone can show causal links, this could just be random noise.  How many diseases did they look at with no correlation?  There are bound to be some false positives.  I admit it's possible that there are common conditions that pregnant women go through in different months that can affect the fetus, but in the modern world, a lot of the seasonal variations are already compensated for.
 
2013-11-17 07:21:51 AM

alinac: He's a water sign and I'm an earth sign together we make mud.


She's a water sign. I'm a fire sign. Together we make tequila
 
2013-11-17 10:48:21 AM
Now, you  may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely that the relative positions of the planets and the stars can have a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you, but let me give you my assurance that these forecasts and predictions are all based on solid scientific documented evidence, so you would have to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of them is absolutely true!

/Where was I?
 
2013-11-17 03:50:06 PM

Witness99: brimed03: So I'm to believe a 28 year old "journalist" trying to show how smart he is through the prodigious employment of unrenooberated verbiage instead of employing critical skills in a "news" article. My stars.

/don't trust anyone under 30.
//or over 55.
///boomers or their kids, is what I'm getting at here.

You mean boomers or millenials (the kids of Gen X).


Well, no.  Actually I trust GenX to raise normal kids-- the only normal kids in decades.  Boomers were spoiled by post-scarcity parents and are spoiled adults.  They raised spoiled kids.
 
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