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(CBS Los Angeles 2)   LA Police: "Hey, this TSA agent still has a pulse. Let's let him bleed out for over a half an hour so we can bump these charges up to a murder rap"   (losangeles.cbslocal.com) divider line 155
    More: Dumbass, TSA, Los Angeles, TSA agents, U.S. state abbreviations, Los Angeles Police Department, trauma surgeon, Los Angeles Fire Department, old paul  
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14954 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2013 at 7:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-15 08:04:30 PM  

fluffy2097: hardinparamedic: It's not a Paramedic's job to play Rescue Randy and rush in to save the day when someone is gunning down people. All he does is become another victim, and take away from the resources needed to care for people already hurt on scene. Disobeying a stage for PD announcement will cost you your job on a major incident, and could cost you your license if someone is hurt because of your actions.

If you don't have the training and equipment to make the scene relatively safe for you and your partner, you hold until it's done for you. No one benefits from freelancing on major incidents, and there are ample historical precedents for people losing everything.

So you'd watch someone strolling distance away from you just die?

Would you sleep soundly that night?


Yes, Fluffy, that happens.  Because one dead person would become two dead people. And no, it does not allow you to sleep well at night, not just that night.
 
2013-11-15 08:05:07 PM  
Anyone who's read the article would know that the whole thing about "securing the site before letting the medics in to treat the wounded" doesn't really apply in this case, since the shooter had already been apprehended and the site (in this case, the site around the wounded and bleeding victim) had already been secured. The paramedics were about 150 yards away and had to wait 20-30 minutes before the LAPD would allow them to do their jobs.

And if the medical examiner determines that the victim might have lived had treatment not been delayed, the cops who delayed the treatment will most likely be charged with murder be given a written reprimand and a one-week suspension with pay (while the coroner would be in absolutely no danger whatsoever of being suicided, and if you believe that then I've got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn)
 
2013-11-15 08:05:27 PM  
From the MSNBC article I read, they already had the gunman in custody. There really was no excuse for getting this guy help. LAPD must have a BUNCH of farking money or a REALLY forgiving insurance underwriter to be able to pay out all these settlements.
 
2013-11-15 08:07:06 PM  
live by the sword, die by the sword
 
2013-11-15 08:07:09 PM  

WTFDYW: From the MSNBC article I read, they already had the gunman in custody. There really was no excuse for

NOT getting this guy help. LAPD must have a BUNCH of farking money or a REALLY forgiving insurance underwriter to be able to pay out all these settlements.
 
2013-11-15 08:07:11 PM  

xtrc8u: And no, it does not allow you to sleep well at night, not just that night.


You're talking to someone who just won't "get it", no matter how much you explain to him that real life is not like what he sees on TV.

He doesn't realize that a common tactic of people is to shoot someone and leave them in plain sight to lure responders in to kill more, I'm also willing to bet, or that for the last 20 years, people who use IEDs to hurt people often plant secondary devices to kill and mame responders.
 
2013-11-15 08:08:12 PM  

doglover: change1211: Gig103: [img.fark.net image 604x358]

Yep, a father and husband is dead. This is a good thing because Fark doesn't like who he worked for.

To be fair, NOBODY likes the TSA and even The Iceman was married with kids.


It's still a crying shame the LAPD gets to continue existing as they do without major reform from an external source higher up the food chain. They are constantly farking up like this.


They were under federal oversight for years.
http://news.yahoo.com/federal-oversight-lapd-officially-ends-18554064 8 .html
 
2013-11-15 08:08:19 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: First of all, its not a policeman's job to administer first aid, its their job in a situation as this, to secure the area, and that takes time. They have guns, and are able to defend themselves. The paramedics do not. So, you don't let in the medical people until you have made sure it is safe. No point adding more victims to a already bad situation. It has been this way forever, and as a retired police officer, it makes sense to me. No point in letting others in, before you had taken control of the situation, and made sure it is safe. But i guess that doesn't matter to the trolltastic headline.
If we had let them in to help the guy, and the shooter (or shooters, they didn't know) shot the paramedics, the trolls would have been screaming "why didnt you make sure it was safe? Waaahhhhhhhh." Can't win, so you do what makes sense and hope for the best.


That's pretty much it. If you can hold a clean conscience in your mind about what you did, it doesn't matter at all what anyone says.
 
2013-11-15 08:08:29 PM  

hardinparamedic: Whelp. I got filterpwned.


But it was awesome.
 
2013-11-15 08:08:53 PM  

hardinparamedic: xtrc8u: And no, it does not allow you to sleep well at night, not just that night.

You're talking to someone who just won't "get it", no matter how much you explain to him that real life is not like what he sees on TV.

He doesn't realize that a common tactic of people is to shoot someone and leave them in plain sight to lure responders in to kill more, I'm also willing to bet, or that for the last 20 years, people who use IEDs to hurt people often plant secondary devices to kill and mame responders.


Atlanta? 9/11??
Just the first two that come to mind.
 
2013-11-15 08:11:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: This wasn't a LAPD thing; this was probably a homeland security theater thing. The paramedics probably had to go through additional screening because they were "randomly selected".

Lol.

That said, in reality tactical doctrine is to bypass giving aid to wounded and go directly towards the active shooter to isolate and neutralize him. Until that's done, in the absence of a tactical paramedic team, the priority is stopping the shooting and THEN treating victims.


Indeed.

It's not uncommon in these situations for the paramedics to be delayed. You can't have some jihadi/crazy pop a cap in the ass of some poor paramedic. Then, you've got a parametric with a hole in his or her butt; ain't nobody got time for that.
 
2013-11-15 08:11:53 PM  

hardinparamedic: Pichu0102: It's not known when Hernandez died or if immediate medical attention could have saved his life, but McClain said unless a person is decapitated, a doctor must declare someone dead.

What.

The doctor has to sign the death certificate. A Paramedic or RN can declare someone dead when they meet criteria in their Guidelines/Standing Orders.

Don't expect the news media to get it right. They have to sensationalize.

PanicMan: Okay, this was a giant clusterf*ck, but really saying someone is "only" 150 yards away when it's unknown if there's other shooters, or bombs.  If you go out to help someone and you get shot too, now there's two victims and less people to respond or secure the area.

THIS.

Unless you have someone who is a Paramedic or EMT on a tactical team and is trained to operate under fire, or you have a spare Law Enforcement officer trained in LE Weeners Tactical Casuality Care,you're not going to care for them until the shooter is neutralized.

Remember that scene from ROTLD, where he says "Send more paramedics?" That's what active shooters want. Unarmed rescuers they can add to their body count. Kill the shooter, save lives.


Personally I think paramedics should be allowed to be armed and that any of them who don't do so once it is allowed is an idiot. But that is just my opinion and not that relevant to the core issues with your argument...

RTFA.... The shooter was neutralized 28 minutes before the guy was moved the 20 feet to the paramedics.

1.) At 150 yards range 20 feet is NOTHING. Moving the paramedics up 20 feet, from 157 yards away to 150 yards away was never going to make a difference to their safety. Conversely, if the location of the injured man was dangerous then the paramedics being only 20 feet away were already in danger. Either way you cut it letting them move up 20 feet would have no impact on their safety.

2.) The paramedics were never allowed in anyway... The police moved the man TO the paramedics. There is no reason they couldn't have done this 28 minutes earlier since this is all they ended up doing anyway.


You are totally right that bringing paramedics into a firefight in the civilian world is almost always a bad idea, but since that was entirely NOT the situation your point is moot.
 
2013-11-15 08:13:00 PM  
 
2013-11-15 08:14:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: snocone: What a bunch of farking jackwagons.

Of course it is a medic's job to make house calls.

It's not a Paramedic's job to play Rescue Randy and rush in to save the day when someone is gunning down people. All he does is become another victim, and take away from the resources needed to care for people already hurt on scene. Disobeying a stage for PD announcement will cost you your job on a major incident, and could cost you your license if someone is hurt because of your actions.

If you don't have the training and equipment to make the scene relatively safe for you and your partner, you hold until it's done for you. No one benefits from freelancing on major incidents, and there are ample historical precedents for people losing everything.


Well, gee, thanks for the advice.

I will consider it. Nope, just doesn't work for me, sorry. Every drop of my "special training" was OJT. And 70 pounds of "special equipment" is just, excuse me, dead weight.
True, stupid is as stupid does, but  at some point, the learning curve turns your way.
A gun is not a nuke. A shooter is not Piers Morgan's fantasy. There are rules and limits.
 
2013-11-15 08:15:38 PM  
The world needs more good men like christopher dorner!
 
2013-11-15 08:16:45 PM  

arentol: Personally I think paramedics should be allowed to be armed and that any of them who don't do so once it is allowed is an idiot. But that is just my opinion and not that relevant to the core issues with your argument...


Uh, most people who are on the job will disagree with you on that. A gun in the box of an ambulance is a BAD idea, and can easily get taken away from you. Many of the attacks using firearms on paramedics involve shooting at the ambulance, which means having a sidearm is not going to be protective anyway. In addition, the majority of paramedics are neither tactically or law enforcement trained, and existing concealed carry laws and training does NOT support, impart, or provide criminal or legal defense for shootings in the line of duty for Paramedics in a non-LEO capacity.

There's a reason that Tactical EMT training and programs like LEO-NARCMEDIC exist. And the reason many of the leading organizations recommend that if a Paramedic is going to carry a sidearm, the be employed as and certified as a law enforcement officer.

arentol: RTFA.... The shooter was neutralized 28 minutes before the guy was moved the 20 feet to the paramedics.

1.) At 150 yards range 20 feet is NOTHING. Moving the paramedics up 20 feet, from 157 yards away to 150 yards away was never going to make a difference to their safety. Conversely, if the location of the injured man was dangerous then the paramedics being only 20 feet away were already in danger. Either way you cut it letting them move up 20 feet would have no impact on their safety.

2.) The paramedics were never allowed in anyway... The police moved the man TO the paramedics. There is no reason they couldn't have done this 28 minutes earlier since this is all they ended up doing anyway.


Not disagreeing with you at all.
 
2013-11-15 08:17:57 PM  
Holy crap. From the comments, a total conspiracy nut job claiming that Sandy Hook was staged, and he's got proof:

TONY HAWK was pretending to be one of the dads.

(editor's trying to load this 1.1MB jpg, so copy and paste the link below)

http://wellaware1.com/artwork/large/shooting_hoax.jpg
 
2013-11-15 08:18:02 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: First of all, its not a policeman's job to administer first aid, its their job in a situation as this, to secure the area, and that takes time. They have guns, and are able to defend themselves. The paramedics do not. So, you don't let in the medical people until you have made sure it is safe. No point adding more victims to a already bad situation. It has been this way forever, and as a retired police officer, it makes sense to me. No point in letting others in, before you had taken control of the situation, and made sure it is safe. But i guess that doesn't matter to the trolltastic headline.
If we had let them in to help the guy, and the shooter (or shooters, they didn't know) shot the paramedics, the trolls would have been screaming "why didnt you make sure it was safe? Waaahhhhhhhh." Can't win, so you do what makes sense and hope for the best.


Remind me again what your opinion would be if you had found out that was your loved one that they let bleed out?
 
2013-11-15 08:18:32 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: First of all, its not a policeman's job to administer first aid, its their job in a situation as this, to secure the area, and that takes time. They have guns, and are able to defend themselves. The paramedics do not. So, you don't let in the medical people until you have made sure it is safe. No point adding more victims to a already bad situation. It has been this way forever, and as a retired police officer, it makes sense to me. No point in letting others in, before you had taken control of the situation, and made sure it is safe. But i guess that doesn't matter to the trolltastic headline.


The area was secure for 28 minutes before Hernandez received any assistance.

Also, if it was safe enough for the shooter to get medical treatment, why wasn't it safe enough for the victim?

But we all know that Heroic Officers like you can do no wrong, so why bother to read the article?
 
2013-11-15 08:19:48 PM  

hardinparamedic: xtrc8u: And no, it does not allow you to sleep well at night, not just that night.

You're talking to someone who just won't "get it", no matter how much you explain to him that real life is not like what he sees on TV.

He doesn't realize that a common tactic of people is to shoot someone and leave them in plain sight to lure responders in to kill more, I'm also willing to bet, or that for the last 20 years, people who use IEDs to hurt people often plant secondary devices to kill and mame responders.


Totally agree on securing the scene prior to entering, however based on the information in the article, LAPD was either far too cautious, or just flat out callous. I'm skeptical of any sensationalized account but if the article is accurate, the cops dropped the ball.
/10 year combat medic
//monday morning quarterbacking is always easier than dealing with the suck in real time
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-11-15 08:19:59 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Bit'O'Gristle: First of all, its not a policeman's job to administer first aid, its their job in a situation as this, to secure the area, and that takes time. They have guns, and are able to defend themselves. The paramedics do not. So, you don't let in the medical people until you have made sure it is safe. No point adding more victims to a already bad situation. It has been this way forever, and as a retired police officer, it makes sense to me. No point in letting others in, before you had taken control of the situation, and made sure it is safe. But i guess that doesn't matter to the trolltastic headline.
If we had let them in to help the guy, and the shooter (or shooters, they didn't know) shot the paramedics, the trolls would have been screaming "why didnt you make sure it was safe? Waaahhhhhhhh." Can't win, so you do what makes sense and hope for the best.

Remind me again what your opinion would be if you had found out that was your loved one that they let bleed out?


Oh, was that a "real" person.

You mean with friends and rellys and stuff?

Practice dummies are so much simpler.
 
2013-11-15 08:20:03 PM  

hardinparamedic: That said, in reality tactical doctrine is to bypass giving aid to wounded and go directly towards the active shooter to isolate and neutralize him. Until that's done, in the absence of a tactical paramedic team, the priority is stopping the shooting and THEN treating victims.


Then explain the 28 minutes between when the shooter was neutralized, and provided with medical care himself, before y'all allowed the victim any treatment?
 
2013-11-15 08:20:53 PM  

fnordfocus: Then explain the 28 minutes between when the shooter was neutralized, and provided with medical care himself, before y'all allowed the victim any treatment?


I already did.

hardinparamedic: dark brew: But in this instance it sounds like the delay wasn't a matter of securing the scene, it was that an officer believed the guy was dead thereby delaying care

True, after RTFA. We've had problems locally with certain jurisdictions trying to keep our responders from entering "crime scenes" because the person looks "obviously dead", despite the fact they're not supposed to unless the person is decomposing.

Wonder if that's what happened here?

 
2013-11-15 08:21:24 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Remind me again what your opinion would be if you had found out that was your loved one that they let bleed out?


That wouldn't happen.  If an Officer's loved one was shot, they would have received prompt treatment.
 
2013-11-15 08:21:33 PM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I don't get the hate for the TSA. In my experience the vast majority of the agents are polite and respectful and the entire proces isn't much worse than it was pre-9/11.

I understand that people don't like the TSA.  I don't get the part where folks think that a dead work-a-day shlub and his now fatherless children put the cosmos in balance or whatever.


Just like anywhere else, it's not bad if it happens to "them". You see it full tilt in motorcycle threads. People get downright murderous at the mere mention of loud pipes, those disrupt their phone conversations while their driving.
 
2013-11-15 08:22:20 PM  
Remember that ex-military homeowner that managed to get in position with an AR15 at the point of entry for some sort of no-knock drug warrant?  It took a long time for police to secure that scene.  Too bad the homeowner died before paramedics were allowed to get to him.

It isn't always about serving the pubic, it seems to be more about about protecting themselves.
 
2013-11-15 08:24:03 PM  

hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: Then explain the 28 minutes between when the shooter was neutralized, and provided with medical care himself, before y'all allowed the victim any treatment?

I already did.


You wrote:

That said, in reality tactical doctrine is to bypass giving aid to wounded and go directly towards the active shooter to isolate and neutralize him. Until that's done, in the absence of a tactical paramedic team, the priority is stopping the shooting and THEN treating victims.

How the fark does that explain this situation?  The Officers had already neutralized the shooter.  They thought it was safe enough to aid wounded shooter.  They didn't allow the victim to be treated.  How does that make any farking sense?
 
2013-11-15 08:24:45 PM  

Enemabag Jones: It isn't always about serving the pubic, it seems to be more about about protecting themselves.


Can you clarify something for me? Are you suggesting that the LAPD shot the guy and covered it up?

Luse: You see it full tilt in motorcycle threads. People get downright murderous at the mere mention of loud pipes, those disrupt their phone conversations while their driving.


i34.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-15 08:38:53 PM  
i.ytimg.com

"Lets say you're a contractor, and a juicy government contract comes your way..."
 
2013-11-15 08:39:41 PM  

strtsk8r7: They were under federal oversight for years.


Not oversight, but regulation. The whole apple barrel is ruined. You have to destroy the culture there entirely and replace it. Kind of like the Germans did for themselves post WW2. Now they're the nicest people in Europe.
 
2013-11-15 08:39:44 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I don't get the hate for the TSA. In my experience the vast majority of the agents are polite and respectful and the entire proces isn't much worse than it was pre-9/11.


lol, sheeple
 
2013-11-15 08:39:45 PM  
Firat thing cops are trained to do is protect themselves. Number 2 is civilians. Third is help wounded. Number one was not done. It sucks. We all hate including cops, but they followed protocols. Plain and simple, it sucks and was a shiatty situation.
 
2013-11-15 08:40:01 PM  
 
2013-11-15 09:05:38 PM  
hardinparamedic ,
Enemabag Jones: It isn't always about serving the pubic, it seems to be more about about protecting themselves.
Can you clarify something for me? Are you suggesting that the LAPD shot the guy and covered it up?


I don't know. Half the time I read something horrible like this the standard answer is "it is standard procedure." Some of the people that tend to support police in situations like this confuse what is moral and what is lawful or doctrine. Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

Possibly they want to make sure there isn't a second shooter, or something like that. Maybe it is comparable to procedures with bomb-sniffing dogs after a first bomb at some location. Maybe someone in black kevlar used an emergency response document and forgot about their primary mission.

My question is, when did police become so much about procedure and forget that protecting the public part. How long does it take to secure the a location of a shooting in Iraq before soldiers are provided care?

I think the first scene I talked about with the no-knock drug raid vs ex-soldier with ar-15. I don't know if that was ass-covering or procedure. And I don't claim the delay in the airport was a cover-up. I do think they need to stop thinking in terms of how do they protect themselves and how do they serve the public better. Maybe justify the hero-worship I see on the local news.

As a final example, I could quote you the khmer rouge procedure on how to treat Cambodian with a college education and no one would buy that. Just because you can quote standard procedure on US police emergency response does not make it make it morally right.

Assuming the police version is the real version not intended to save face.
 
2013-11-15 09:08:32 PM  
The Obamacare trickle down effect.
 
2013-11-15 09:14:00 PM  
What's wrong with having someone drag the wounded guy out to the paramedics while someone covers him? Is that not allowed?
 
2013-11-15 09:14:16 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Half the time I read something horrible like this the standard answer is "it is standard procedure." Some of the people that tend to support police in situations like this confuse what is moral and what is lawful or doctrine. Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

Just because it is written down somewhere as procedure does not make it moral or right.

 
2013-11-15 09:15:27 PM  

Enemabag Jones: How long does it take to secure the a location of a shooting in Iraq before soldiers are provided care?


What the military does would seem pretty damn heartless, then. The best battlefield medicine is a magazine into the asshole who just shot your buddy.

Other than directed care to keep a wounded soldier in the fight and rapid application of tourniquet, they won't do anything until the shooting stops.
 
2013-11-15 09:19:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: Enemabag Jones: How long does it take to secure the a location of a shooting in Iraq before soldiers are provided care?

What the military does would seem pretty damn heartless, then. The best battlefield medicine is a magazine into the asshole who just shot your buddy.

Other than directed care to keep a wounded soldier in the fight and rapid application of tourniquet, they won't do anything until the shooting stops.


You blog sucks was actually informative. thanks.
 
2013-11-15 09:20:08 PM  

Pichu0102: It's not known when Hernandez died or if immediate medical attention could have saved his life, but McClain said unless a person is decapitated, a doctor must declare someone dead.

What.


I did a first aid course and that was one of the key things we were taught. We were not allowed to decide the victim was dead. We must administer CPR or whatever until an ambulance arrives and the pro's take over, no matter how dead the victim might appear. Only if the victim was in one place and their head was somewhere else could we safely decide not to bother.

/TV is partly to blame. CPR is a miracle cure where after ten seconds the victim takes a huge breath and springs back to life. People see that so often on TV and in movies that if someone does have a heart attack they give up after twenty seconds because "it hasn't worked". People have made full recoveries after being given CPR, and remained non responsive, for half an hour and more.
//You do not make that call. You administer first aid until medics arrive and take over or decomposition starts.
 
2013-11-15 09:25:29 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Only if the victim was in one place and their head was somewhere else could we safely decide not to bother.


That was one of the funny things about Mr. Teatime's assassins' exam. He was fastidious enough to check for breath with a mirror, even though the head was several feat away away from the body.
 
2013-11-15 09:26:20 PM  
Bit'O'Gristle: First of all, its not a policeman's job to administer first aid, its their job in a situation as this, to secure the area, and that takes time.

This part has been addressed. 33 minutes, with the suspect neutralized?? Right.

They have guns, and are able to defend themselves. The paramedics do not. So, you don't let in the medical people until you have made sure it is safe.

Glad those Navy Corpsmen didn't take that attitude when I was in the Marines...... It would be kind of awkward, you know:
"CORPSMAN UP!!! We have a man hit!"

"Umm, yeah... is it safe? Make sure you guys secure the area and make sure there is no danger before  I come over there. Please be a dear and make sure it's safe... mmkay?"


No point adding more victims to a already bad situation.

Shooter was neutralized.

 It has been this way forever, and as a retired police officer, it makes sense to me.

Of course it would. Gotta protect the brothers behind the blue line.

 No point in letting others in, before you had taken control of the situation, and made sure it is safe. But i guess that doesn't matter to the trolltastic headline.

Ya, shooter was neutralized, scene had been secure for  33 MINUTES and another policeman had declared the TSA agent dead. Can't let someone see a cop is wrong.


/Dog bless the Corpsmen
//and fark the police
 
2013-11-15 09:30:50 PM  
We need a dedicated TSA law enforcement unit tasked with protecting transportation security officers

And then a dedicated unit tasked with protecting the TSA protection unit, and then a unit tasked with protecting the TSA protection protection unit, and then a unit tasked with protecting the TSA protection protection protection unit, and then we'll all be safe because there physically won't be any more room for a flying civilian to even step foot inside the airport.
 
2013-11-15 09:32:18 PM  
FTFA - "We need a serious re-examination of TSA's screening area security policies to stop the next tragedy before it happens. The inconsistent patchwork of local law enforcement and security protocols simply won't get the job done. We need a dedicated TSA law enforcement unit tasked with protecting transportation security officers and the flying public around our vulnerable screening areas. An immediate threat requires an immediate response, and we can't afford to be taken off-guard again."

Absolutely. Set up a pre-security screening security screening, to keep the screeners safe. Also all those people in close proximity. But then who will protect the pre-screening screeners that are protecting the screeners? Surely there is some way we can guarantee the safety of everybody everywhere at every time.

/The TSA needs its own tactical units and broadly defined powers too!
//If the TSA doesn't get its own para-military force then the terrorists win
 
2013-11-15 09:32:44 PM  
Bit'O'Gristle:

Please click the link and read the original article from CBS. According to it, the police had secured the area and the wounded had been being tended to for over 20 minutes. The TSA officer wasn't being treated, owing to an LAPD officer's erroneous statement that he was already dead. You are right, however, that the Fark headline is trolling. Poke around the site for a while, it's what Fark does. Some of us find that entertaining. In this case I do find it to be in bad taste, as a guy died. LIke it or lump it, it's what Fark does.
 
2013-11-15 09:33:44 PM  

fusillade762: McClain

Yippee-ki-yay, motherfarker.


Hah, just imagine another sequel, this time with a madman who takes over an airport where a bunch of people get shot.
 
2013-11-15 09:34:40 PM  
hardinparamedic:...if a Paramedic is going to carry a sidearm, the be employed as and certified as a law enforcement officer.

Yeah, if you simply must arm EMTs, they should be sworn law enforcement officers. I think it's a really bad idea all around, though. I wouldn't want to carry at work, and I work in a relatively high-crime urban environment. Plus, even when assigned to the ambulance, I have fire supression responsibilities and question the wisdom of carrying in a fire, or the reality of removing the sidearm and securing it in the bus. Then there's the political risk of once again reviving the public safety department concept. So all around, bad idea.
 
2013-11-15 09:35:04 PM  

StrangeQ: We need a dedicated desiccated TSA law enforcement unit tasked with protecting transportation security officers



FTFM
 
2013-11-15 09:38:20 PM  
The article quotes an officer named McClain. Where are the Die Hard references?
 
2013-11-15 09:38:20 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I don't get the hate for the TSA. In my experience the vast majority of the agents are polite and respectful and the entire proces isn't much worse than it was pre-9/11.

I don't remember anyone at the airport fondling my nutsack pre-9/11 or using advanced technology to see me naked.



Giving your life in the name of the State doesn't equate to heroism
Joseph Goebbles was a loving family-man and a dedicated civil servant.
 
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  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

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