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(Slate)   How one conspiracy theorist decided to stop being such an unmitigated moron   (slate.com) divider line 107
    More: Interesting, President John F. Kennedy, Warren Commission, conspiracy theories, Dealey Plaza, Chief Justice of the United States, college freshmen, Warren, Edward R. Murrow  
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8610 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2013 at 12:16 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-15 12:19:06 PM
You mean how one conspiracy theorist chickened out after being threatened by the government.
 
2013-11-15 12:20:29 PM
You mean how one conspiracy theorist realized that what he thought didn't matter a fark?
 
2013-11-15 12:20:45 PM
As this promises to be a conspiracy thread, I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that only my version of things is correct, only my facts are facts, and that I'm straight up pleasuring myself to the thought of how dumb you all are that only I can see the  TRUTH.

/so what are we talking about? 9/11? Trilateral Commission? Moon landing?
//they're all linked, you know
///three words: molybdenum futures market
////I've said too much
 
2013-11-15 12:22:21 PM
The Pope finally decide Jesus probably wasn't God?
 
2013-11-15 12:24:20 PM
In reality, all conspiracy theories are started by the government to create the illusion that they're vastly  more powerful and organized than they really are and distract the most attentive and creative of our citizens from focusing on the fact that they're really no more scary than the Keystone Cops.
 
2013-11-15 12:25:34 PM
That's a well thought-out, reasoned....wait, nerves explode?!?  The fark?
 
2013-11-15 12:26:19 PM
If you can just decide not to be a moron, you never were a moron, you've simply changed your mind. Morons don't know they're morons.
 
2013-11-15 12:26:20 PM
Mostly, he ceased being a freshman, from the sounds of it. It's the people whose over-credulousness persists into later life that are the unmitigated morons.
 
2013-11-15 12:28:00 PM
i watched a nova episode on this a couple of days ago in which they used modern ballistic and other forensic science to study the "magic bullet" theory. and you know what? it turns out to be completely plausible.
 
2013-11-15 12:28:15 PM
What are the odds that this author will serve as a shining example to some of our own resident loons?
 
2013-11-15 12:29:52 PM
Also, hunks of flesh and bone don't get pushed by rifle bullets. They explode in random direction.
 
2013-11-15 12:30:11 PM
i1.ytimg.com

 Still working on his book.
 
2013-11-15 12:31:11 PM
Now he's an annoying moron.
 
2013-11-15 12:32:13 PM
There's no space to launch a full rebuttal of the conspiracy theorists. (It took 1,632 pages for Vincent Bugliosi to do that in his 2007 book  http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393045250/?tag=slatmaga-20" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 51); text-decoration: none; font-family: sl-ApresBold; font-size: 15px; line-height: 27px;">Reclaiming History.)

If it takes 1,632 pages to supposedly disprove something, it's probably true.
 
2013-11-15 12:33:03 PM
I'll just leave this over here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Fl9ZVJ7B8
 
2013-11-15 12:33:55 PM
As a former conspiratard myself, I still find it hard to believe I got pulled into such delusion.

/i guess it's a phase some people go through
 
2013-11-15 12:35:22 PM
Facts do have the damnedest way of ruining a good conspiracy theory.  If Kennedy assassination buffs wanted to do something actually useful for history, they'd stop asking WHO shot Kennedy,  because that is known and incontrovertible.   What they would do is ask WHY Oswald shot him and whether someone else put him up to the task and what that person's motivations were.   While I do not believe Lee Harvey was a spontaneous lunatic with a gun, I do believe the truth if it were ever uncovered would depress a lot of people as they discovered the incredibly trivial reason a great US president died
 
2013-11-15 12:36:30 PM
So, they finally got to him.

The truth of what Dale Earnhardt saw will never be revealed.
 
2013-11-15 12:36:48 PM

Magorn: What they would do is ask WHY Oswald shot him and whether someone else put him up to the task and what that person's motivations were. While I do not believe Lee Harvey was a spontaneous lunatic with a gun, I do believe the truth if it were ever uncovered would depress a lot of people as they discovered the incredibly trivial reason a great US president died


I dunno. If he was just acting alone, why the mob hit on him while he was in police custody?
 
2013-11-15 12:38:32 PM
Conspiracy theory has nothing to do with the merits of the theory and everything to do with the theorist's longing for reason and order and perception of himself as smarter than everyone else.

That's why you never win on arguing the merits of a conspiracy theory.  To even attempt so, just proves that you are one of The Sheeple who doesn't see the powerful people controlling precisely every aspect of our lives.

These people don't like the randomness of some loner in Dallas shooting the President or of some backwoods cave-dwellers successfully carrying out a plan to kill 3,000 New Yorkers.  It happens.  Deal with it.
 
2013-11-15 12:39:04 PM
t3.gstatic.com
 
2013-11-15 12:40:17 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: That's a well thought-out, reasoned....wait, nerves explode?!?  The fark?


No, that's bullshiat.

I am a pathologist and have never heard of that.  Furthermore, it would defy all laws of physics that an explosion contained entirely in your head would propel your meat-bag backwards, TOWARDS the bullet's origin.

I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist, and I don't know or care who killed Kennedy, but that claim as fact and proof that it was all a single gun-man shooting from the back is ludicrous.   Not only that, it makes me think that it's nothing more than a white-wash attempt to cover-up a pretty significant gap in the government's explanation of the assassination.
 
2013-11-15 12:42:09 PM

netgamer7k: As a former conspiratard myself, I still find it hard to believe I got pulled into such delusion.

/i guess it's a phase some people go through


I believed in alien abductions and government UFO cover up when I was 17.  I didn't understand sleep paralysis then and I was prone to believing that people in certain professions were above idiocy or bullshiat.  You read a UFO report and they take great pains to point out that witness is a cop or a doctor and then you become and adult and you meet cops and doctors that are full of shiat.
 
2013-11-15 12:43:03 PM
Well, even the U.S. government concluded that there was a conspiracy in the JFK assassination, specifically the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978.

So it's not like it's fringe, tinfoil-hat paranoid or even moronic, substandardmitter, to claim there was.
 
2013-11-15 12:43:51 PM
www.secretsofthefed.com
 
2013-11-15 12:44:01 PM
Just the other day, an old friend of mine, that I actually respect as a well-rounded, intelligent person, posted up on FB that he was about ready to change his mind about this conspiracy thoery based on yet again, another TV special he just saw.

They have been going over this for over 40 years.  Does it really make any difference at this point?  I mean, let's just say that there was TRULY incontrovertible evidence that Oswald was not the only shooter (or even invloved).  What would that change?  What would it prove?  Who is still alive and relevant that they could be held responsible anyway.  Don't we have other things going on today that could stand to have a better looking at?
 
2013-11-15 12:44:25 PM

trappedspirit: If it takes 1,632 pages to supposedly disprove something, it's probably true.


That sort of logic is what makes conspiracy theorists great.
 
2013-11-15 12:46:37 PM
Lemme guess, he became an Obama fan.
 
2013-11-15 12:47:13 PM
Obligatory:


UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ATTACK: Was it an inside job?

1) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?

2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station's large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?

3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?

4) Why has there not been an investigation into allegations that Darth Vader, the second-ranking member of the Imperial Government, is in fact the father of the pilot who allegedly destroyed the Death Star?

5) Why did Lord Vader decide to break all protocols and personally pilot a lightly armored TIE Fighter? Conveniently, this placed Lord Vader outside of the Death Star when it was destroyed, where he was also conveniently able to escape from a large-sized rebel fleet that had just routed the Imperial forces. Why would Lord Vader, one of the highest ranking members of the Imperial Government, suddenly decide to fly away from the Death Star in the middle of a battle? Did he know something that the rest of the Imperial Navy didn't?

6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to "bullseye womprats" on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be "impossible, even for a computer." Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been investigated, let alone explained?

7) Why has their been no investigation into evidence that the droids who provided the rebels with the Death Star plans were once owned by none other than Lord Vader himself, and were found, conveniently, by the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, and who is also believed to be Lord Vader's son? Evidence also shows that the droids were brought to one Ben Kenobi, who, records indicate, was Darth Vader's teacher many years earlier! Are all these personal connections between the conspirators and a key figure in the Imperial government supposed to be coincidences?

8) How could a single missile destroy a battle station the size of a moon? No records, anywhere, show that any battle station or capital ship has ever been destroyed by a single missile. Furthermore, analysis of the tape of the last moments of the Death Star show numerous small explosions along its surface, prior to it exploding completely! Why does all evidence indicate that strategically placed explosives, not a single missile, is what destroyed the Death Star?

9) And where was Emperor Palpatine when all of this occurred?  He was in a classroom reading "My Pet Bantha" to a bunch of young Sith, where he waited a full five minutes to leave the room after receiving the news from a member of the Crimson Guard.  Would the leader of the Empire have acted so calmly upon discovery that his greatest achievement had been destroyed?
 
2013-11-15 12:47:16 PM

Rapmaster2000: That's why you never win on arguing the merits of a conspiracy theory. To even attempt so, just proves that you are one of The Sheeple who doesn't see the powerful people controlling precisely every aspect of our lives.


I think that's the wrong attitude to take, and, ironically, just shows your desire to feel superior to people who have different ideas than you.. It wasn't until the Popular Mechanics article came out that there was a single coherent source of information directly refuting the claims of the 9/11 Truthers, and I've been able to use that to convince a few people that it really wasn't an inside job. They weren't believers but people that had only seen the truther sites.

If people just throw up their hands and say there is no point in providing good evidence, then people who are on the fence only hear one side of the story.
 
2013-11-15 12:49:43 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Rapmaster2000: That's why you never win on arguing the merits of a conspiracy theory. To even attempt so, just proves that you are one of The Sheeple who doesn't see the powerful people controlling precisely every aspect of our lives.

I think that's the wrong attitude to take, and, ironically, just shows your desire to feel superior to people who have different ideas than you..


It's entirely conceivable that I am superior to people with stupid ideas.
 
2013-11-15 12:51:12 PM
I will readily admit that I collect conspiracy theories, and I enjoy reading through new ones, and seeing how folks "connect the dots" because it's interesting to see how folks interpret information. In part, it's the way the human brain works: it makes connections, predicts based upon information, and likes to discern patterns. It's part of how we got where we are today. In part, it's a desire to "complete" information sets, based on clues, and be in the know. It's a way of rising above mediocrity to see such patterns, patterns that others can't quite get. I am NOT above this, and most of us aren't. In politics, especially, looking at motivations, and seeing larger patterns IS how to look at fairly large data sets. We all do it. The question is: do you do this in a rational fashion, or are you just gathering up data to connect to support your own biases, or are you making objective assessments? Or are you making wild leaps just to make wild leaps? There are a TON of ways to look at information, and it's easy to get tripped up, or in the case of a lot of our Fark shills, it's easy to spin information to support personal or even paid biases.

Conspiracy theories are a way of looking at the world, and seeing a world where only a few are actually in the know, and congratulating themselves on being above the herd. It's understandable how folks can get hooked on these sorts of things.
 
2013-11-15 12:52:35 PM
starsmedia.ign.com
 
2013-11-15 12:53:49 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Magorn: What they would do is ask WHY Oswald shot him and whether someone else put him up to the task and what that person's motivations were. While I do not believe Lee Harvey was a spontaneous lunatic with a gun, I do believe the truth if it were ever uncovered would depress a lot of people as they discovered the incredibly trivial reason a great US president died

I dunno. If he was just acting alone, why the mob hit on him while he was in police custody?


Kinda my point.  And it;s often overlooked that Harvey's Uncle was a bookie with the New Orleans branch of the mob.  That' a few too many wiseguys floating around the edges of the story to be coincidence
 
2013-11-15 01:04:27 PM
I still like the idea that one of the secret service agents panicked when the first shots rang out and his gun accidentally went off.
 
2013-11-15 01:07:33 PM
Or DID he??!!
 
2013-11-15 01:07:36 PM

exick: trappedspirit: If it takes 1,632 pages to supposedly disprove something, it's probably true.

That sort of logic is what makes conspiracy theorists great.


Indeed.  It takes the cake for stupidest thing I've read all day.  Though I have yet to check the Politics tab today, so we'll probably have a new winner soon enough anyway.
 
2013-11-15 01:11:44 PM
I blame Obama. He was one crazy toddler with a gun.
 
2013-11-15 01:14:27 PM
You cannot convince conspiracy nitwits, basically ever. All evidence is just proof of a LARGER conspiracy...one that evidently involves millions of people being able to keep secrets from conspiracy nuts.
 
2013-11-15 01:15:25 PM
I used to be a big conspiracy fan. Then I worked for government for 10 minutes.
 
2013-11-15 01:16:27 PM

MrKevvy: Well, even the U.S. government concluded that there was a conspiracy in the JFK assassination, specifically the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978.

So it's not like it's fringe, tinfoil-hat paranoid or even moronic, substandardmitter, to claim there was.


Umm. Are you actually familiar with any of the members of the House of Representatives?

To wit:

dailycurrant.com

/do you think it was any different in 1978?
 
2013-11-15 01:17:59 PM

FlashHarry: i watched a nova episode on this a couple of days ago in which they used modern ballistic and other forensic science to study the "magic bullet" theory. and you know what? it turns out to be completely plausible.


I saw that as well, good stuff. I also saw another show several years ago where they attempted to re-create the shot using ballistic-gel and pig bone dummies. They had a guy in a tower take a shot with the same setup as the "magic bullet." The shot turned out to be pretty much identical to the real one. It went through the neck of the first dummy, through the torso and wrist of the second, and hit the thigh. The only real difference was that the re-created shot didn't penetrate the second dummy's thigh, like the magic bullet did with Gov. Connally.
 
2013-11-15 01:23:52 PM
This sums it up nicely:

The existence of a secret cabal means that there's some sort of order in the world; a catastrophic fluke suggests there's a vast crevice of chaos, the essence of dread.

The universe is an uncaring ocean of cold nothing...we are a soap bubble bouncing on a foam of indifference.  Your conspiracy, your god, your religion...whatever you cling to that gives you hope of order and the possibility of control is a lie and a fraud.

Oblivion awaits.

fishduck.com
 
2013-11-15 01:24:45 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: You cannot convince conspiracy nitwits, basically ever. All evidence is just proof of a LARGER conspiracy...one that evidently involves millions of people being able to keep secrets from conspiracy nuts.


I know right, like the calculus conspiracy nuts, lots (millions?) of people say they understand it and they have the secret knowledge to make it work. But I have studied it out and it's a bunch of nonsense I tell you, nonsense!
 
2013-11-15 01:25:14 PM
Nobody has commented on the TFA where the article says the nerve ending explodes in a random direction?

That is farking stupid.

It's not the nerve exploding.  The bullet enters the skull from one side, makes a tiny hole and compresses and pressurizes the fluids in the skull in front of it leaving a vaccum behind the bullet path (no jet of fluid from entry hole), as it does so it punches a larger hole out the other side of the skull which causes a jet of fluid to basically push the skull in the opposite direction of the entry wound.

You can see the same thing by shooting a watermelon.
 
2013-11-15 01:26:19 PM
When I visited Dealey Plaza, I was amazed to see how small it was. Oswald was shooting at very close rifle range for anyone with any military training or hunting experience.
 
2013-11-15 01:31:30 PM

Dog Welder: Obligatory:


UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ATTACK: Was it an inside job?

1) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?


Because the Empire didn't consider a single-man starfighter to be any sort of a threat.  That is why they didn't have a tighter defense.
Besides, the ability to destroy an entire planet was harnessed completely in it's superweapon, which would be useless against a single fighter.


2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station's large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?

Who says they had they largest fleet of Tie Fighters?  Even the 2nd Death Star didn't deploy any.  All those fighters came from the fleet of Star Destroyers.
In any event, Vader DID have the idea to go out and "destroy them ship to ship".  Which they succeeded in doing with the exception of 2 XWings and 1 YWing.  Tarkin also had no reason to believe that there was any sort of danger.  He was expecting to fire one shot, and go for a light lunch.


3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?

It's pretty well known that they were allowed to escape so the Empire could track the escaping ship to the Rebel base.

4) Why has there not been an investigation into allegations that Darth Vader, the second-ranking member of the Imperial Government, is in fact the father of the pilot who allegedly destroyed the Death Star?

There are no such allegations.  The Emperor was the only one around who was aware of Vader's true identity.  Well, him, a couple of Jedi, one of which was dead, and Luke's aunt and uncle, who were also dead.

5) Why did Lord Vader decide to break all protocols and personally pilot a lightly armored TIE Fighter? Conveniently, this placed Lord Vader outside of the Death Star when it was destroyed, where he was also conveniently able to escape from a large-sized rebel fleet that had just routed the Imperial forces. Why would Lord Vader, one of the highest ranking members of the Imperial Government, suddenly decide to fly away from the Death Star in the middle of a battle? Did he know something that the rest of the Imperial Navy didn't?

He was the best pilot in the fleet.  Plus his fighter was not lightly armored.  At the time, it was the only one with shields and hyperdrive, for instance.  And who says he broke any protocol?  And he didn't just fly away, he was hit by another panicked Tie Fighter.  I think a better question is, why did Han shoot the wingman instead of the lead pilot?!

6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to "bullseye womprats" on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be "impossible, even for a computer." Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been ...

Uh, he used The Force.  He didn't even aim.  He simply deployed the missiles and use the force to guide them to their target.

//Nerd.
 
2013-11-15 01:31:44 PM
I guess she drifted...

Operation Snow White

Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members, in more than 30 countries. It was the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history with up to 5,000 covert agents.
 
2013-11-15 01:32:28 PM

asmodeus224: This sums it up nicely:

The existence of a secret cabal means that there's some sort of order in the world; a catastrophic fluke suggests there's a vast crevice of chaos, the essence of dread.

The universe is an uncaring ocean of cold nothing...we are a soap bubble bouncing on a foam of indifference.  Your conspiracy, your god, your religion...whatever you cling to that gives you hope of order and the possibility of control is a lie and a fraud.

Oblivion awaits.


We are but leftover flippity bits of planets forming, and when we die, well, that's it.  An opportunity to give back to the planet in death what we took from it for life.  I'm good with that.
 
2013-11-15 01:34:01 PM
Most conspiracy believers start with a somewhat unrealistic view of the world. A lone loon can't take down a president, there's no way to reach the moon, a few radicals couldn't mount a successful attack on a major American city, mankind's activity can't fundamentally change the planet's climate These notions, like evolution, prompt an uncomfortable reassessment of the universe. I myself thought it would be a matter of days or weeks at most before we eliminated bin-Laden.

But I never thought there was a conspiracy to not get him.
 
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