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(STLToday)   Molina, Jesus, named MLB's MVPs   (stltoday.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, Molina, Major League Baseball, MVP, National League MVP, Andrew McCutchen, Red Sox, Baseball Writers Association of America, Allen Craig  
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1520 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Nov 2013 at 9:02 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-15 03:33:17 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I'd love an explanation on how Mike Trout was supposed to make Joe Blanton stop giving up so many homers. Guess he should've lined up in the stands.


You and me both man.  I certainly don't subscribe to that line of thought.  Personally I think it's just a cop out by a bunch of lazy ass writers that don't pay close enough attention to the sport to know about guys that might be having a phenomenal season but are stuck on a team that sucks ass.  In fact, I'd almost go so far as to argue they deserve more consideration since they are in all likelihood batting without any protection in the order and fewer men on base.

But everyone loves (and knows about) a winner, and this year even if someone on the Astros had a just a farking mind-blowing year they'd never have won MVP because they played on one of the worst teams in history.
 
2013-11-15 03:41:39 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I'd love an explanation on how Mike Trout was supposed to make Joe Blanton stop giving up so many homers. Guess he should've lined up in the stands.


If Mike Trout could be bothered to spend a little less time in the cages and a little more time in the GM's office where the team really needed him, maybe they wouldn't have had 320 innings of Jason Vargas and Jerome Williams.  Oooh, I'm Mike Trout.  I don't know how phones work.  I can't do a simple thing like sign a decent #3 starter, but I think I'm an MVP.  Oooh.

Or maybe he should take a hint from Miguel Cabrera and learn to play a different position to help his team win.  Like "#3 starter".
 
2013-11-15 03:50:22 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: bacongood: It starts out complaining that the two WS teams didn't win any awards (because that is relevant how?)

Nope.  Try reading it again, because that's not true.  In fact, it doesn't even mention the words World Series until near the end of the article.  It states nobody won from the two top teams (according to record) in the AL and NL.  They also happened to play each other in the World Series but again it's not even mentioned though that fact in itself is somewhat noteworthy since it hasn't happened in a while, but I digress.  And the opening of the article is hardly a complaint.  It's simply a statement of fact.

As for relevance, there's a train of thought among a lot of baseball writers (with which I disagree) that overall team success should impact the MVP vote.  It happens in other sports too....you seldom see a player from less successful teams with MVP regardless of their personal accomplishments unless they are just out of this world.

and also states that the Dispatch voters voted for Molina.  It was less about where they placed and where the write thought they deserved to be placed.

Well this accurate, but context is pretty important.  They're making an argument with statistics to validate their vote while also trying to demonstrate the fact that stats alone aren't always a good measure to determine the winner.  I don't see them bashing the ultimate decision of the other writers, or disparaging the choice of McCutchen.  The fact writers have different opinions and criteria on who should win what since there are no actual guidelines to follow is why they have the vote in the first place.

The beat writers, for better or worse, are the voice of the fans.

Well, that's quite simply not even remotely accurate.  A beat writer by definition is simply a journalist that focuses on a specific topic...team, branch of government, type of industry, whatever.  That focus and increased time dedicated to that specific entity typically allows for greater access a ...


your multiple paragraphs to a couple of lines of text are clearly persuading me that STL fans do not take themselves way too seriously.
 
2013-11-15 03:54:54 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: But everyone loves (and knows about) a winner, and this year even if someone on the Astros had a just a farking mind-blowing year they'd never have won MVP because they played on one of the worst teams in history.


See also: Gomez, Carlos.

One 5th-place vote, and a handful of 7th-10th place votes.  Yet you can make a case that he should have won it all.  I'd probably go with McCutchen anyway, but the gap is small.

Of course, there's a long tradition of screwing top-tier defensive CFs out of MVP consideration.  Andruw Jones in 1999: Hit .275/.365/.483 with 26 HR and 24 SB, played all 162 games, and played historically good CF.  2nd in the NL in WAR, a little behind Bagwell.  Doesn't get so much as one 10th-place vote on any ballot, and the MVP goes to a guy who wasn't even the best Jones on the Atlanta Braves.
 
2013-11-15 04:06:54 PM  

chimp_ninja: Shrugging Atlas: But everyone loves (and knows about) a winner, and this year even if someone on the Astros had a just a farking mind-blowing year they'd never have won MVP because they played on one of the worst teams in history.

See also: Gomez, Carlos.

One 5th-place vote, and a handful of 7th-10th place votes.  Yet you can make a case that he should have won it all.  I'd probably go with McCutchen anyway, but the gap is small.

Of course, there's a long tradition of screwing top-tier defensive CFs out of MVP consideration.  Andruw Jones in 1999: Hit .275/.365/.483 with 26 HR and 24 SB, played all 162 games, and played historically good CF.  2nd in the NL in WAR, a little behind Bagwell.  Doesn't get so much as one 10th-place vote on any ballot, and the MVP goes to a guy who wasn't even the best Jones on the Atlanta Braves.


What?  Andruw Jones a top-tier defender?  Why, he didn't even make a lot of diving plays like Jim Edmonds.

/that was sarcasm.  Lots of sarcasm.
 
2013-11-15 04:09:15 PM  

chimp_ninja: Of course, there's a long tradition of screwing top-tier defensive CFs out of MVP consideration. Andruw Jones in 1999: Hit .275/.365/.483 with 26 HR and 24 SB, played all 162 games, and played historically good CF. 2nd in the NL in WAR, a little behind Bagwell. Doesn't get so much as one 10th-place vote on any ballot, and the MVP goes to a guy who wasn't even the best Jones on the Atlanta Braves.


You're clearly ignoring that Andruw only played good defense because Chipper inspired him.
 
2013-11-15 04:52:10 PM  

bacongood: your multiple paragraphs to a couple of lines of text are clearly persuading me that STL fans do not take themselves way too seriously.


Hell I don't take myself seriously at all.  Can't stand the Cardinals fans that buy into that whole BFIB bullshiat.  But I'll admit my intolerance of people that have absolutely no clue what they're talking about was definitely showing there.
 
2013-11-15 07:10:08 PM  

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: meanmutton: I'm a Miggy slappy and a Tigers homer... I would have voted for Trout this year over Miggy. Yeah, it was due to injury, but Miggy's September was quite mediocre.

You know, I'm glad you said that. I've seen far too many people that I KNOW said last year that Miggy was MVP because he hit so well in September, then still supported Miggy for MVP this year, instead of, say, Josh Donaldson.

I don't actually care what criteria people use for MVP, just as long as it's consistent.

Yeah.  Somehow, according to some folks, Trout fading in September is a knock against, but Miggy fading in September is a plus.  Somehow.

Given that the Angels kinda sucked, Trout wasn't coming near the award. And Trout wasn't as good this year as he was last year (where the hell did his defense go?)  But he had a better year than Miggy, objectively speaking.


A-Rod won MVP on a last place team.
 
2013-11-16 12:25:26 PM  
Andre Dawson was MVP for a last-place team,
 
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