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(International Business Times)   Who had "How long will the the Braves' move be deemed a racist decision" at one day? You? Come on down, y'all, you win the prize   (ibtimes.com) divider line 81
    More: Asinine, Braves, Cobb County, Turner Field, new republican party, I-285, Saw VII  
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3066 clicks; posted to Sports » on 14 Nov 2013 at 9:35 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-14 08:12:39 PM
In the end, as Joe Dendy inadvertently revealed, the move is about placating white suburban Braves fans who feel uncomfortable in a black neighborhood.

Sounds more like "let's move the team closer to its fan base, but we can't actually SAY that".
 
2013-11-14 08:22:44 PM
Braves "fans" don't go to games anyway, no matter their skin color or preferred bigotries.
 
2013-11-14 08:46:55 PM
It will be deem a racist decision for one day?

What will it be deemed after that day has passed?
 
2013-11-14 09:02:14 PM
Oh FFS...

THE BRAVES MOVED BECAUSE ATLANTA REFUSED TO GIVE IN TO THEIR shiatTY DEMANDS

Its not about race; its about money, and a BIG ASS stadium.
 
2013-11-14 09:03:43 PM
The comments in TFA are surprisingly informative.
 
2013-11-14 09:08:17 PM
Let me say something else, too

If this incident can't even open your eyes to the racist moral panic then I am afraid you are a lost soul
 
2013-11-14 09:13:54 PM
Well, they're moving to a county that I choose to believe without researching is named after notorious racist Ty Cobb, so take that
 
2013-11-14 09:15:51 PM

cman: Let me say something else, too

If this incident can't even open your eyes to the racist moral panic then I am afraid you are a lost soul


I don't even know what this means.

I can say, the blackmail scams by major league sports wherein they manage to claw money out of taxpayers who - eagerly - throw that cash at the teams is funny. I've read about plenty of splits (stadium costs) where the split was 50-50. 50% taxpayer funded, 50% funded with money the team was given by municipalities through outright cash handoffs, tax breaks and other similar grifts.
 
2013-11-14 09:16:53 PM
I still stand by my previous comment in one of the earlier threads: Put up the money and make the Braves have to justify to Cobb County why their money is better than Fulton County's.  It'd be fun to watch at least.

\stuff like this just keeps justifying my decision to put off visiting Atlanta when I've been to 90% of the rest of the South
 
2013-11-14 09:19:05 PM

dr_blasto: cman: Let me say something else, too

If this incident can't even open your eyes to the racist moral panic then I am afraid you are a lost soul

I don't even know what this means.

I can say, the blackmail scams by major league sports wherein they manage to claw money out of taxpayers who - eagerly - throw that cash at the teams is funny. I've read about plenty of splits (stadium costs) where the split was 50-50. 50% taxpayer funded, 50% funded with money the team was given by municipalities through outright cash handoffs, tax breaks and other similar grifts.


Many are seeing racism in things that normal people wouldn't consider racist.

This is a good example of this.

They see racism because thats what they want or expect to see.
 
2013-11-14 09:24:38 PM

cman: dr_blasto: cman: Let me say something else, too

If this incident can't even open your eyes to the racist moral panic then I am afraid you are a lost soul

I don't even know what this means.

I can say, the blackmail scams by major league sports wherein they manage to claw money out of taxpayers who - eagerly - throw that cash at the teams is funny. I've read about plenty of splits (stadium costs) where the split was 50-50. 50% taxpayer funded, 50% funded with money the team was given by municipalities through outright cash handoffs, tax breaks and other similar grifts.

Many are seeing racism in things that normal people wouldn't consider racist.

This is a good example of this.

They see racism because thats what they want or expect to see.


I read that initially as directly contradicting your previous statement and thought that maybe Maine had legalized pot.
 
2013-11-14 09:26:28 PM

dr_blasto: cman: dr_blasto: cman: Let me say something else, too

If this incident can't even open your eyes to the racist moral panic then I am afraid you are a lost soul

I don't even know what this means.

I can say, the blackmail scams by major league sports wherein they manage to claw money out of taxpayers who - eagerly - throw that cash at the teams is funny. I've read about plenty of splits (stadium costs) where the split was 50-50. 50% taxpayer funded, 50% funded with money the team was given by municipalities through outright cash handoffs, tax breaks and other similar grifts.

Many are seeing racism in things that normal people wouldn't consider racist.

This is a good example of this.

They see racism because thats what they want or expect to see.

I read that initially as directly contradicting your previous statement and thought that maybe Maine had legalized pot.


Not yet, unfortunately
 
2013-11-14 09:32:49 PM
I don't understand the hatred for the nickname. They bravely battled genocide, disease and forced relocation.

Redskins, on the other hand? Why does skin color matter?
 
2013-11-14 09:36:47 PM
Cobb County... isn't that the county that lost the right to host any '96 Olympic events because the Board of Commissioners did something outrageously stupid?
 
2013-11-14 09:38:36 PM
The the name isn't racist. The tomahawk chop certainly is.
 
2013-11-14 09:38:55 PM
The area where Turner Field is now has come to be called "East Atlanta Village," and it's the site of the biggest gentrification Atlanta has seen since teh gheys colonized Midtown.
 
2013-11-14 09:48:00 PM
The Braves do not own the parking lots, the stadium, or the land around the stadium for development.

They will now get a stadium closer to the majority of ticket holders with a stadium they own, parking they own, and land they own to build restaurants, bars, and shops.

The northern suburbs don't like going down to Atlanta for the games...whether the reason is traffic or black people. Of course, in south Cobb, there is still horrible traffic and black people...so I'm not sure people can make any argument on the move other than it being about money.

Also, what in the f*ck would the point of putting Marta in Cobb be now? People use Marta to go from north springs and doraville to the games. Nobody is going the other directions.

If you want to find a way to put in a train that goes from Doraville to Sandy Springs to Cumberland, that'd be freaking awesome.
 
2013-11-14 09:54:08 PM
After reading TFA, it looks more like they're moving closer to their fan base (irrespective of race) than anything else.  If their fan base is wealthier...and they can build a new stadium complete with more luxury boxes and amenities, they can charge more and make more money.

The sad thing about it to me is that Turner Field isn't even 20 years old.  That's the real insanity as I highly doubt the Braves have paid off the costs of Turner Field.  Taxpayers will be on the hook for a good portion of the new stadium.  If it was financed only by the ownership, sure..move the team wherever you want.  That isn't the case and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill as the real economic impact of having a team in your city never is as great as they make it out to be.
 
2013-11-14 09:54:50 PM

dkendr: The area where Turner Field is now has come to be called "East Atlanta Village," and it's the site of the biggest gentrification Atlanta has seen since teh gheys colonized Midtown.


That's not exactly true.

EAV is close, but still several blocks away across Moreland, at least.

The area around the stadium is not being improved in any way. The closed KFC/Taco Bell is the only thing going five blocks in every direction.

East: need to go 10 blocks or so to find improvement in the grant park area
West: nothing across the freeway down Abernathy for miles
South: nothing til you hit the airport
North: need to go a mile to get to the Capitol, another half mile to underground...not worth a damn
 
2013-11-14 09:56:21 PM
I think that his comments can be twisted in either direction, but this is Joe Dendy's website:   http://www.teamdendy.com/joe-dendy.html

You have to admit, all the pics are rather......pale.
 
2013-11-14 09:58:08 PM

slayer199: After reading TFA, it looks more like they're moving closer to their fan base (irrespective of race) than anything else.  If their fan base is wealthier...and they can build a new stadium complete with more luxury boxes and amenities, they can charge more and make more money.

The sad thing about it to me is that Turner Field isn't even 20 years old.  That's the real insanity as I highly doubt the Braves have paid off the costs of Turner Field.  Taxpayers will be on the hook for a good portion of the new stadium.  If it was financed only by the ownership, sure..move the team wherever you want.  That isn't the case and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill as the real economic impact of having a team in your city never is as great as they make it out to be.


The stadium was built for the Olympics. And the Olympics made a metric asston of money for the city.
 
2013-11-14 10:00:15 PM

slayer199: After reading TFA, it looks more like they're moving closer to their fan base (irrespective of race) than anything else.  If their fan base is wealthier...and they can build a new stadium complete with more luxury boxes and amenities, they can charge more and make more money.

The sad thing about it to me is that Turner Field isn't even 20 years old.  That's the real insanity as I highly doubt the Braves have paid off the costs of Turner Field.  Taxpayers will be on the hook for a good portion of the new stadium.  If it was financed only by the ownership, sure..move the team wherever you want.  That isn't the case and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill as the real economic impact of having a team in your city never is as great as they make it out to be.


You know how I know that you don't have a clue what you're talking about?
 
2013-11-14 10:07:40 PM
Supporting the move to Cobb county hinges, according to Cobb County GOP chairman Joe Dendy, on not raising taxes on Cobb county residents and making sure the transportation situation is about:

"moving cars in and around Cobb and surrounding counties from our north and east where most Braves fans travel from, and not moving people into Cobb by rail from Atlanta"

To me, these two conditions seem contradictory.   What rational reason would Dendy have to exclude people from Atlanta?   Given that the success of the entire enterprise depends on getting people to the park and the tax revenue they generate it would make sense to make it accessible to as many people as possible. Given the uncertain traffic situation of the area I think that customers arriving by rail (and not having to clog the streets or the parking lots) would be preferred.   But why not from Atlanta?

And in regard to this being a racist moral panic?  That's ridiculous.  Any time anything moves from a poorer urban area to a more affluent suburban area the question of white flight will come up, especially in the South.  It's certainly not all that's happening here with the Braves move, but I'm sure it's part of it.
 
2013-11-14 10:15:36 PM
They moved because in Cobb County, Georgia, if you don't read the signs and respect the law and order, you'll be serving hard time.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-14 10:17:27 PM
I've been a huge Braves fan since the early 80's.  I love Turner Field.  However, there is literally jack farking shiat to do around the stadium after the game.  I've never had any "incidents" there largely due to the fact that the only thing to do after a game is get in your car and wait 2 hours to get out of the parking lot.  If the new stadium rectifies this, I'm a happy camper.

Also, if they can generate more revenue for the team by owning the stadium and the parking areas, I'm for that as well.  Liberty Media isn't going to be jacking up the payroll unless they're bringing in the money to offset the additional cost.
 
2013-11-14 10:21:10 PM

bulldg4life: The stadium was built for the Olympics. And the Olympics made a metric asston of money for the city.


$10 million dollars is an asston of money?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Point is, the stadium isn't 20 years old Cobb County taxpayers are on the hook for $300 million for a new stadium?
 
2013-11-14 10:25:07 PM
If this is truly about getting closer to the fans, why locate in the left bottom part of the fan base? Also there isn't an infinite number of roads linking each fan to the stadium. There's a very limited number of roads that are already congested. For the fans who live in the northwest part of metro Atlanta, this will be a easier location. For fans everywhere else, it will be worse, much worse.

I don't think the Braves are being racist. To Liberty Media it's simply a business opportunity. There's not much they can do about the typical pants wetting reaction many of their suburban fans have in the presence of excessive skin pigmentation. The ironic thing is that the area they're moving to has been on the decline. The nearby mall has had all sorts of problems with robbery and other crime inside and outside the mall. Much of the housing stock is from the 70s and 80s. By the time the stadium is opened, there will be plenty of nearby low income residents whose skin doesn't reflect large quantities of light. Things at the new location won't be much different except you'll have no choice but to arrive by car and all of the money from parking and outside the park concessions will go to the Braves.

As for the current site, if the property is sold off on the open market, it won't take long for it to be redeveloped. If it becomes another city lead development project with hand picked contracts for insiders, it'll be another Underground Atlanta. Zone it high density and the gentrification spillover genie will take care of the rest. The demand is there but the huge parking lots and mostly empty stadium has been a roadblock. With it removed, and if the city gets the eff out of the way except to zone it appropriately (don't make the Beltline Wal-Mart mistake again), it'll turn into an extension of Grant Park with a commercial strip next to the interstate. It's a  good location and the amount of nearby low income housing stock can easily be bought up by investors looking for properties to flip. Expect to hear a lot of grumbling about gentrification destroying Peoplestown but ultimately money will win out as the old guard is losing its power in the city quickly.
 
2013-11-14 10:28:27 PM
But I thought the home of the brave was the land of the free.
 
2013-11-14 10:32:25 PM

slayer199: bulldg4life: The stadium was built for the Olympics. And the Olympics made a metric asston of money for the city.

$10 million dollars is an asston of money?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Point is, the stadium isn't 20 years old Cobb County taxpayers are on the hook for $300 million for a new stadium?


Spending public money always stimulates local economies.  Too bad a few rich people are going to forgo their yearly yacht purchase for the sake of the greater good.
 
2013-11-14 10:40:37 PM

slayer199: bulldg4life: The stadium was built for the Olympics. And the Olympics made a metric asston of money for the city.

$10 million dollars is an asston of money?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Point is, the stadium isn't 20 years old Cobb County taxpayers are on the hook for $300 million for a new stadium?


Considering the city got a stadium, airport expansion, dorms for gsu/GT, a park in downtown for concerts and tourism, and half a dozen other things...yes.

Considering the stories of Olympic venues and locations being empty two years after the games leave a city, Atlanta got a huge amount of improvements that are still in use today (and will be for decades).
 
2013-11-14 10:59:07 PM

bulldg4life: Atlanta got a huge amount of improvements that are still in use today (and will be for decades).


Maybe they would have gotten an even greater benefit if they weren't so tight with their collective wallets.  $300 million?  Really?  What's that, 2 condos in Manhattan?
 
2013-11-14 11:28:34 PM

God_Almighty_Himself: Spending public money always stimulates local economies. Too bad a few rich people are going to forgo their yearly yacht purchase for the sake of the greater good.


Sure...you keep telling yourself that.  You may want to do some checking on that.  There's been numerous cost-benefit studies on publicly financed stadiums and very seldom does that benefit anyone but the uber-rich owner.
 
2013-11-14 11:38:20 PM

slayer199: There's been numerous cost-benefit studies on publicly financed stadiums and very seldom does that benefit anyone but the uber-rich owner.


That's hardly the government's fault.
 
2013-11-14 11:40:18 PM
Racism is the motivation of all acts by whites.
 
2013-11-14 11:50:52 PM

mediablitz: In the end, as Joe Dendy inadvertently revealed, the move is about placating white suburban Braves fans who feel uncomfortable in a black neighborhood.

Sounds more like "let's move the team closer to its fan base, but we can't actually SAY that".


Whats ironic is that area is a lot more racially diverse than quite a few stadiums up north but hey why let facts get in the way.
 
2013-11-14 11:54:42 PM

steamingpile: Whats ironic is that area is a lot more racially diverse than quite a few stadiums up north but hey why let facts get in the way.


The Voting Rights Act officially established that people in southern states are inherently more racist than northerners.
 
2013-11-15 12:01:06 AM
Come on, its the south. Every decision they make about everything is about race.
 
2013-11-15 12:02:31 AM
God_Almighty_Himself:

The Voting Rights Act officially established that people in southern states are inherently more racist than northerners.

Well, that... and slavery.
 
2013-11-15 12:09:02 AM
Black guy here.....Atlanta is a terrible town for pro sports.  The old stadium was hard to get too in a bad neighborhood.  A stadium can be many things, inconvenient isn't one of them.
 
2013-11-15 12:09:15 AM

God_Almighty_Himself: Spending public money always stimulates local economies.


I wish someone would stimulate my local economy.
 
2013-11-15 12:10:36 AM

God_Almighty_Himself: steamingpile: Whats ironic is that area is a lot more racially diverse than quite a few stadiums up north but hey why let facts get in the way.

The Voting Rights Act officially established that people in southern states are inherently more racist than northerners.


Yeah, having lived and worked in both areas I would dispute that notion.

They may have let them vote but that doesnt mean they counted their vote or ever respected their opinions, there is a reason why blacks equate unions with racism and why they chose to move south for better jobs over staying up north.

The influx of blacks to the south dispute your thought process.
 
2013-11-15 12:13:50 AM
.

God_Almighty_Himself: steamingpile: Whats ironic is that area is a lot more racially diverse than quite a few stadiums up north but hey why let facts get in the way.

The Voting Rights Act officially established that people in southern states are inherently more racist than northerners.


Lets not forget the 3/5ths compromise.
 
2013-11-15 01:23:05 AM

steamingpile: mediablitz: In the end, as Joe Dendy inadvertently revealed, the move is about placating white suburban Braves fans who feel uncomfortable in a black neighborhood.

Sounds more like "let's move the team closer to its fan base, but we can't actually SAY that".

Whats ironic is that area is a lot more racially diverse than quite a few stadiums up north but hey why let facts get in the way.


Still, when you are talking about gutting the income of a county that is 90% black and relocating to one that is 40% black, you will raise eyebrows. Oh and it's Georgia, so yeah, them eyebrows are headed skyward now...
 
2013-11-15 01:35:37 AM

deadsanta: Still, when you are talking about gutting the income of a county that is 90% black and relocating to one that is 40% black, you will raise eyebrows. Oh and it's Georgia, so yeah, them eyebrows are headed skyward now...


Numbers from the butt I see.

Atlanta - 54% black
Fulton County - 44.6% black
Cobb County - 29.6% black
 
2013-11-15 02:36:44 AM

bulldg4life: Considering the stories of Olympic venues and locations being empty two years after the games leave a city, Atlanta got a huge amount of imp

rovements that are still in use today (and will be for decades).



Yeah, like Wolf Creek, amirite?

/Goddammitsomuch
 
2013-11-15 03:03:55 AM

Brostorm: Black guy here.....Atlanta is a terrible town for pro sports.  The old stadium was hard to get too in a bad neighborhood.  A stadium can be many things, inconvenient isn't one of them.


So let's do the same thing 12 miles north. What can possibly go wrong.

dameron: What rational reason would Dendy have to exclude people from Atlanta?


Same reason why people here in the St. Louis suburbs did everything they could to stop Metrolink (our version of MARTA) from coming out here, we didn't want any of the crime from the city to migrate out here.

Oh wait, you said rational reason? Well that I can't help you with.
 
2013-11-15 03:13:14 AM

slayer199: After reading TFA, it looks more like they're moving closer to their fan base (irrespective of race) than anything else.  If their fan base is wealthier...and they can build a new stadium complete with more luxury boxes and amenities, they can charge more and make more money.

The sad thing about it to me is that Turner Field isn't even 20 years old.  That's the real insanity as I highly doubt the Braves have paid off the costs of Turner Field.  Taxpayers will be on the hook for a good portion of the new stadium.  If it was financed only by the ownership, sure..move the team wherever you want.  That isn't the case and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill as the real economic impact of having a team in your city never is as great as they make it out to be.


That's just pitiful though.

I'm a Cards fan so I admit that I'm a little biased I'm a little biased but Busch Stadium is in the heart of "America's Most Dangerous City" where they have been a rash of car break-ins so frequent, the city had to pass an ordinance requiring each parking lot to have someone on guard to watch it while a game is going on. We also have a lot of homeless people as well that I walk by everytime on the way to Busch Stadium. We had a massive highway project in which one of the main arteries downtown was under reconstruction and caused a lot of traffic backups a few years ago.

Even with all of that going on, we still had roughly 40,000 each game. So when I hear that Braves fans didn't want to go to Turner Field because of traffic and the fact the stadium is in a bad neighborhood, I have little sympathy for them and actually says a lot about them than anything else.

/rant off
 
2013-11-15 04:38:12 AM

FriarReb98: I still stand by my previous comment in one of the earlier threads: Put up the money and make the Braves have to justify to Cobb County why their money is better than Fulton County's.  It'd be fun to watch at least.

\stuff like this just keeps justifying my decision to put off visiting Atlanta when I've been to 90% of the rest of the South


Atlanta's baseball team's ownerships is being perceived as racist so you're glad you haven't visited the city yet?  You being a fan of a team that used to be called "the rebels" I'm guessing it has more to do with black people being there.

Is Memphis another city in the south that you're glad you've yet to visit by any chance?
 
2013-11-15 05:16:09 AM
I am friends with many Atlanta hipsters and the "racist" card has been popping up on my facebook newsfeed since the move was first announced.
 
2013-11-15 05:25:56 AM

Mrtraveler01: slayer199: After reading TFA, it looks more like they're moving closer to their fan base (irrespective of race) than anything else.  If their fan base is wealthier...and they can build a new stadium complete with more luxury boxes and amenities, they can charge more and make more money.

The sad thing about it to me is that Turner Field isn't even 20 years old.  That's the real insanity as I highly doubt the Braves have paid off the costs of Turner Field.  Taxpayers will be on the hook for a good portion of the new stadium.  If it was financed only by the ownership, sure..move the team wherever you want.  That isn't the case and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill as the real economic impact of having a team in your city never is as great as they make it out to be.

That's just pitiful though.

I'm a Cards fan so I admit that I'm a little biased I'm a little biased but Busch Stadium is in the heart of "America's Most Dangerous City" where they have been a rash of car break-ins so frequent, the city had to pass an ordinance requiring each parking lot to have someone on guard to watch it while a game is going on. We also have a lot of homeless people as well that I walk by everytime on the way to Busch Stadium. We had a massive highway project in which one of the main arteries downtown was under reconstruction and caused a lot of traffic backups a few years ago.

Even with all of that going on, we still had roughly 40,000 each game. So when I hear that Braves fans didn't want to go to Turner Field because of traffic and the fact the stadium is in a bad neighborhood, I have little sympathy for them and actually says a lot about them than anything else.


The Braves are going to be top 5 in attendance for the next 15 years because of this move. I live in metro ATL but have been to multiple games in St. Louis. It is not the same thing at all.  Old Bush stadium is more like current Turner field. The new stadium has actual development and bars/restaurants plus things to do around the stadium.Turner field is located in a wasteland.  You do not have "better fans".
 
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