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(Examiner)   University of Illinois professor is first ever to be stripped of his tenure. He says he did nothing wrong. That email he sent to his students saying he only remembers the names of students he had sex with was just a joke   (examiner.com) divider line 113
    More: Asinine, University of Illinois, Illinois, professors  
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7338 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2013 at 9:06 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-14 04:01:47 PM
Wow.

A)  A professor actually losing tenure?  That's amazing.

B)  He's been teaching engineering since 1967?

Can you imagine how much engineering has changed in the last 40+ years?
 
2013-11-14 04:14:35 PM
You REALLY have to be a galactic size douche to lose your tenure.
 
2013-11-14 09:10:27 PM
"Of the dismissal, Wozniak said that he is sad because he really liked teaching and really really really really really liked his students."
 
2013-11-14 09:11:39 PM
Maybe he can reveal he's bipolar and collect a fat pension!
 
2013-11-14 09:12:04 PM
I am up for tenure this month.

Must add this to my list of things to avoid.
 
2013-11-14 09:13:13 PM
 
2013-11-14 09:16:31 PM
Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.
 
2013-11-14 09:17:58 PM

Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.


I am also wondering this.
 
2013-11-14 09:18:12 PM

Delawheredad: You REALLY have to be a galactic size douche to lose your tenure.


It's really not as hard as you think.  Misfeasance, malfeasance, or nonfeasance.  Selling grades, trading grades for sex, or not bothering to ever show up for your job.  Nowadays, fulls with that many years are usually paid substantially over $100K, so there are some people in the bean-counting departments who argue that its' actually a good thing to tighten the screws up a bit, because you can hire about 1.5 to 2 assistant profs for what you have to pay a full.

But realistically, the tenure protections are mostly for what you say that is ON TOPIC in the classroom.  You can't be fired for being a raging Marxist or a Tea Partier.  No matter what your political or academic leanings are, once you have tenure they can't release you because of those leanings.  However, if you're , say, a vocal advocate of pedophilia, you're goddamn right they can revoke your tenure. They also aren't to protect sexual harassers or people who want to see how many classes they can cancel in a semester.

The only other thing that tenure does is sort of set up a hierarchy for who gets laid off first when departments get downsized or eliminated.  If you have tenure, the institution is obligated to protect you ahead of the nontenured faculty.
 
2013-11-14 09:19:01 PM
75? Was he teaching people how to make trebuchets?

/i kid
//but seriously, let some younger people in instead of hogging the position until death
 
2013-11-14 09:19:35 PM
I think we can all agree the concept of "tenure" is bullshiat.
 
2013-11-14 09:20:10 PM
When I was in college there was an aging English professor who would rant and rave, and hit on women in his classes.  He was also incontinent and crapped his pants in my housemate's car while bumming a ride.

I heard he did eventually take a leave of absence, but still had his tenure.... you have to be royally despised to get to the point it's taken away.  And at 75 years old too, although he should've retired by now.  Does he lose his pension?
 
2013-11-14 09:21:06 PM

J. Frank Parnell: 75? Was he teaching people how to make trebuchets?

/i kid
//but seriously, let some younger people in instead of hogging the position until death


Building a trebuchet was one of the better assignments I had in engineering.
 
2013-11-14 09:22:53 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Maybe he can reveal he's bipolar and collect a fat pension!


He's going to get his big fat pension. Shouldn't have been hanging around so long anyway.
 
2013-11-14 09:22:57 PM
sites.google.com

From his own website.
 
2013-11-14 09:23:52 PM

kitsuneymg: Building a trebuchet was one of the better assignments I had in engineering.


It would be kind of cool. But surely there are more modern things to focus on.
 
2013-11-14 09:24:55 PM

Begoggle: I think we can all agree the concept of "tenure" is bullshiat.


No.  Not all of us are reactionary teatards who think everyone should be able to be fired at a moment's notice for no reason.
 
2013-11-14 09:25:29 PM

Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.


They've essentially done away with traditional tenure by implementing post tenure review at most schools, and it looks like that will continue to be the case. It gives the schools a good avenue to remove tenured professors. What I'm really concerned about is that this guy implied he f*cks his grandkids.
 
2013-11-14 09:25:33 PM
Bad Subby!  You had a ripe Wozniak-Jobs joke just waiting to be plucked, but you went with a mundane sex thing instead.
 
2013-11-14 09:26:07 PM
Really?  He gets fired for making a joke?  A universally loved and respected faculty member?  Of ALL the reasons shiatbag tenured teachers should be fired for and this is it?

The educational system is just as farked up as Congress is, isn't it?
 
2013-11-14 09:28:01 PM

kitsuneymg: J. Frank Parnell: 75? Was he teaching people how to make trebuchets?

/i kid
//but seriously, let some younger people in instead of hogging the position until death

Building a trebuchet was one of the better assignments I had in engineering.


Building a trebuchet was the most fun I've ever had.

/never went to college
// Municipal PD has  nosense of humor
///It's not like the pumpkins actually hit anyone
 
2013-11-14 09:28:47 PM
The headline of the article reads thusly:


     Illinois of University professor loses tenure


Yes, I'm surrounded by idiots.
 
2013-11-14 09:29:08 PM
Of course he was joking. He doesn't remember your name even if he did have sex with you.
 
2013-11-14 09:29:45 PM
The moral here is: NOTHING CAN EVER BE ERASED FROM THE INNERTUBES.

If I posted a snarky joke on a Fark thread ten years ago, saying minority babies ought to be baked like turkeys and served for Thanksgiving dinner, you can bet your sweet ass some low life would dredge it up and use it against me somehow.

My generation f**ed up as bad as any of you, but we never posted it for a permanent record, so over time people forgot.

\\\ Except for eating LSD and popping dynamite.

\\ That wound up in a book.
 
2013-11-14 09:30:36 PM

AngryDragon: Really?  He gets fired for making a joke?  A universally loved and respected faculty member?  Of ALL the reasons shiatbag tenured teachers should be fired for and this is it?


Methinks there's more to this than meets the eye. I'm guessing they wanted him out and the email is a pretext.
 
2013-11-14 09:32:09 PM
Would they prefer he didn't remember the names of students he had sex with?
 
2013-11-14 09:32:32 PM

BizarreMan: Can you imagine how much engineering has changed in the last 40+ years?


From university page: In addition to teaching, he is active in hydropower digital control work. For the last 30 years, Wozniak has taught and participated in developing course material for design activities of the Department . His industrial experience in the area of automatic controls and dynamics complements his teaching. His current research is directed toward system modeling and analysis by computer simulation in the areas of hydroelectric power generation.

If you're a prof, you don't stop learning or doing scholarly work (R&D for engineers).  If you do stop, you suck at your job and are usually sidelined.  Given shiatty teaching assignments, put in charge of the most bullshiat committees, office by the noisy elevator and bathroom, etc.

Plus, statics and dynamics really haven't changed in 40 years.  Ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws haven't changed.  So for freshman and sophmores it hardly matters.

That said, I would be in favor of a time or age limit like they have in Europe.  There are a lot of very talented 30-35 year olds who can't get jobs because these fossils are still drawing full pay.
 
2013-11-14 09:33:22 PM
I had a tenured shiathead as my poli sci professor, he'd always remind us he had tenure after making his little cripple jokes about Max Cleland, saying girls who had abortions were going to hell, making fun of religions that weren't Christianity, etc. It was a 3 hour class and he'd spend the 1st hour ranting about evolution being a lie, dinosaur footprints being covered up by the media or w/e, then he'd get to the material. I just started coming to class an hour late.
 
2013-11-14 09:34:11 PM

lilbjorn: Begoggle: I think we can all agree the concept of "tenure" is bullshiat.

No.  Not all of us are reactionary teatards who think everyone should be able to be fired at a moment's notice for no reason.


WHY WHY WHY did you feed the troll?
 
2013-11-14 09:34:59 PM
what is an Illinois of University professor?
 
2013-11-14 09:35:14 PM

Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.


From what I've heard, it's a relic from a different era of academia.  Once upon a time most colleges had religious affiliations and as professors got further in their career they were expected to do more groundbreaking work.  Since the subjects of interest at the time were things like Philosophy, it would be easy for a professor to make some serious enemies within the church because of his work.  So tenure was given to give professors the freedom to research and write about controversial topics (or take controversial positions) without repercussion.
 
2013-11-14 09:35:30 PM

Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.


So the basic idea of tenure was so that you couldn't fire the guy doing the really interesting research that you politically didn't agree with or doing the research that was saying embarrassing things about your donors.
 
2013-11-14 09:35:47 PM
If the tri-lambs win the Greek games and control of the Greek council can they re-instate him?

/Didn't go to college
 
2013-11-14 09:36:33 PM

Bacontastesgood: BizarreMan: Can you imagine how much engineering has changed in the last 40+ years?

From university page: In addition to teaching, he is active in hydropower digital control work. For the last 30 years, Wozniak has taught and participated in developing course material for design activities of the Department . His industrial experience in the area of automatic controls and dynamics complements his teaching. His current research is directed toward system modeling and analysis by computer simulation in the areas of hydroelectric power generation.

If you're a prof, you don't stop learning or doing scholarly work (R&D for engineers).  If you do stop, you suck at your job and are usually sidelined.  Given shiatty teaching assignments, put in charge of the most bullshiat committees, office by the noisy elevator and bathroom, etc.

Plus, statics and dynamics really haven't changed in 40 years.  Ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws haven't changed.  So for freshman and sophmores it hardly matters.

That said, I would be in favor of a time or age limit like they have in Europe.  There are a lot of very talented 30-35 year olds who can't get jobs because these fossils are still drawing full pay.


Of course, in Europe, people don't need to keep working to get affordable health insurance, which is quite important at, say, age 75.
 
2013-11-14 09:36:41 PM

Bacontastesgood: Plus, statics and dynamics really haven't changed in 40 years. Ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws haven't changed. So for freshman and sophmores it hardly matters.


Assuming they can communicate as well as they could 30 or 40 years earlier, and still have a passion for it all.
 
2013-11-14 09:36:45 PM

BizarreMan: Wow.

A)  A professor actually losing tenure?  That's amazing.

B)  He's been teaching engineering since 1967?

Can you imagine how much engineering has changed in the last 40+ years?


Can you imagine sleeping with a guy who's been a professor since 1967?
 
2013-11-14 09:37:13 PM

bingethinker: Of course he was joking. He doesn't remember your name even if he did have sex with you.


As my wife (the chemistry professor) says, "If I know your name the first week of class, that's either a very good thing or a very bad thing".

You can "giggity" if you wish.

/yes, she's worth a "giggity"
 
2013-11-14 09:38:11 PM
The great and powerful Woz!
 
2013-11-14 09:39:01 PM

Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.


Because there are fashions in academia the same as anywhere else. One point is to make sure that someone who suggests a crazy idea isn't fired for it. It protects some folks who are nuts, but it also protects some people who can revolutionize a field.

Also, you're supposed to have to prove that you're good at your job before you get tenure. It's not like you get it automatically.
 
2013-11-14 09:40:28 PM

de_Selby: Of course, in Europe, people don't need to keep working to get affordable health insurance, which is quite important at, say, age 75.


Wait, isn't that the point of Medicare?  At 65, the all-powerful government functionally swoops in and just starts paying for everything, no questions asked ?
 
2013-11-14 09:41:58 PM

Bacontastesgood: That said, I would be in favor of a time or age limit like they have in Europe.  There are a lot of very talented 30-35 year olds who can't get jobs because these fossils are still drawing full pay.


Tenure doesn't get around mandatory retirement ages. Which can be a good or bad thing. We did have a mandatory retirement age here of 75 but it was lifted a few years ago. Of course if you get Professor Emeritus you can usually still engage in all of the same work you did before, you just don't get a salary anymore. Pension, can keep an office, can still write grants and do research, etc.
 
2013-11-14 09:42:05 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: Also, you're supposed to have to prove that you're good at your job before you get tenure. It's not like you get it automatically.


Yeah but it seems like once you get it you can do almost whatever the hell you want with impunity (this story being an exception).  There aren't many jobs outside of Washington DC or Hollywood that can claim that.
 
2013-11-14 09:43:38 PM

meyerkev: Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.

So the basic idea of tenure was so that you couldn't fire the guy doing the really interesting research that you politically didn't agree with or doing the research that was saying embarrassing things about your donors.


So how is this applicable today? Professors are public employees, who are pretty much impossible to fire anyway unless they've royally farked up.
 
2013-11-14 09:44:27 PM

you are a puppet: I had a tenured shiathead as my poli sci professor, he'd always remind us he had tenure after making his little cripple jokes about Max Cleland, saying girls who had abortions were going to hell, making fun of religions that weren't Christianity, etc. It was a 3 hour class and he'd spend the 1st hour ranting about evolution being a lie, dinosaur footprints being covered up by the media or w/e, then he'd get to the material. I just started coming to class an hour late.


My favorite thing about these threads are the bullsh*t stories that are either exaggerations or outright fabrications.
 
2013-11-14 09:44:55 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.

Because there are fashions in academia the same as anywhere else. One point is to make sure that someone who suggests a crazy idea isn't fired for it. It protects some folks who are nuts, but it also protects some people who can revolutionize a field.

Also, you're supposed to have to prove that you're good at your job before you get tenure. It's not like you get it automatically.


Yeah, and if you've been around any tenure track faculty the year they go up for tenure you'll see the most stressed out person ever in your life. Because if you don't get it, you have to start looking for a new job in what is already an extremely competitive job market with what amounts to a black mark on your CV...
 
2013-11-14 09:45:34 PM

kwame: you are a puppet: I had a tenured shiathead as my poli sci professor, he'd always remind us he had tenure after making his little cripple jokes about Max Cleland, saying girls who had abortions were going to hell, making fun of religions that weren't Christianity, etc. It was a 3 hour class and he'd spend the 1st hour ranting about evolution being a lie, dinosaur footprints being covered up by the media or w/e, then he'd get to the material. I just started coming to class an hour late.

My favorite thing about these threads are the bullsh*t stories that are either exaggerations or outright fabrications.


You're such a doll.
 
2013-11-14 09:47:52 PM

Shorelinefarker: meyerkev: Mugato: Why is there such thing as tenure in the first place? If you suck at your job you should be subject to firing like anyone else. It's like in the mafia you can't whack a made guy, that's bullshiat.

So the basic idea of tenure was so that you couldn't fire the guy doing the really interesting research that you politically didn't agree with or doing the research that was saying embarrassing things about your donors.

So how is this applicable today? Professors are public employees, who are pretty much impossible to fire anyway unless they've royally farked up.


Only those at public universities. And in the US in particular there are a hell of a lot of private Universities. Here in Canada it is the reverse, private Universities are few and far between and generally suck. But you can still get fired from a public sector job if you say something politically embarrassing for instance.
 
2013-11-14 09:50:52 PM
bastard ...
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-14 09:51:13 PM

you are a puppet: kwame: you are a puppet: I had a tenured shiathead as my poli sci professor, he'd always remind us he had tenure after making his little cripple jokes about Max Cleland, saying girls who had abortions were going to hell, making fun of religions that weren't Christianity, etc. It was a 3 hour class and he'd spend the 1st hour ranting about evolution being a lie, dinosaur footprints being covered up by the media or w/e, then he'd get to the material. I just started coming to class an hour late.

My favorite thing about these threads are the bullsh*t stories that are either exaggerations or outright fabrications.

You're such a doll.


Great comeback, original man.

If your story is true, then something is missing. Where's the part where you read up on university policy and confront him or report him?

I guess what I'm asking is: are you a liar or a coward?
 
2013-11-14 09:51:28 PM

de_Selby: Of course, in Europe, people don't need to keep working to get affordable health insurance, which is quite important at, say, age 75.


We do have medicare, which works very well.  It was LBJs legacy, plus the civil rights act.  The republicans are still bitter about both of those almost 50 years later.

J. Frank Parnell: Assuming they can communicate as well as they could 30 or 40 years earlier, and still have a passion for it all.


In my experience there was no correlation between age and teaching quality.  One of my best profs was in history , and he had fought in WWII.  Some of the worst were 30 year olds who would rather have been doing research and never prepared for class.

entropic_existence: Tenure doesn't get around mandatory retirement ages.


Sure.  My point was in the US we not only have tenure but many (most?) universities have no mandatory retirement age.  Emeritus is fine, just get the lame boomers to farking retire already and give some freshies a goddamn chance.
 
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