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(Opposing Views)   Forget for a moment that this cop fired 41 times at an unarmed man sitting in a pickup truck that was stuck between two police cars. Let's consider for a moment the fact that 38 of those shots missed   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Officer Tuter, patrol cars, Dallas County  
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12573 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2013 at 10:31 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-13 11:37:00 AM  

The WindowLicker: My range's last USPSA match of the year was last weekend, and someone persuaded a whole contingent of LEO's to stop by and shoot it with us.  They did not do too poorly, in fact some of them were reasonably competitive in their divisions.  I had been all spun up to chortle to myself about how terrible the professionals were, and I was pleasantly surprised.


Yes, they are the public face of the police. I'd bet a large portion of their job is to keep practicing so that they can show off how great the cops are, rather than be on the street.
And then you have your other cops that proudly and publicly admit that the ONLY time their gun leaves their holster is when they have to qualify once a year... Which would be bad enough, until it gets much worse when you see what the yearly qualification tests actually are.
 
2013-11-13 11:39:53 AM  

skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.


Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.
 
2013-11-13 11:40:22 AM  
Remember the cop who killed the double amputee for recklessly brandishing a ball point pen? Apparently the wheelchair was coming right at him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/brian-claunch-houston-shot- ma tthew-marin-police-cleared-disabled-amputee_n_4218889.html

I do not engage with the police, and I tell my children not to engage with the police.
 
2013-11-13 11:41:21 AM  
skozlaw


This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.


www.upl.co
www.upl.co

7 triggermen (murderers)

Dozens lied to cover up

Thousands (from multiple departments) lined the street calling them heroes.


Not all, but not "one bad apple" by any farking means.
 
2013-11-13 11:41:32 AM  
That's about right.
 
2013-11-13 11:41:42 AM  

Madbassist1: Remember the cop who killed the double amputee for recklessly brandishing a ball point pen? Apparently the wheelchair was coming right at him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/brian-claunch-houston-shot- ma tthew-marin-police-cleared-disabled-amputee_n_4218889.html

I do not engage with the police, and I tell my children not to engage with the police.


Never talk to the police.  Nothing good can come of it.
 
2013-11-13 11:43:30 AM  

Pharque-it: Isn't that more shots than the whole German police force fired in a year?


We let out our government sector violence in a small, steady stream.

Germany saves it all up, and then, a couple times a century...watch out.
 
2013-11-13 11:43:38 AM  

Biff_Steel: Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.

LOL remember that incident in PG county MD where seven police cruisers responded to a scene and the suspect somehow got beaten to a pulp? Turns out, somehow, all seven dash cam "malfunctioned." What are the odds?


CSB: In my county, the cameras on officers and car cams save all their data to a central hard disk in the cruiser, and the hd is changed out at the end of each shift. However, the officers were never taught that you can't eject the hd while the write light was on the device. Over 80% hd failure for over a year, before the software developer said, "Who taught you guys how to use the tech?" After a full administration of blank stares, they began training the officers on the tech they were using. One year later, they still had a 25% failure rate which, years later, is still considered acceptable. Their tech officer has never had a computer class or certification in his lifetime, having learned all he knows from his home computer which is not even running the same OS as his office PC. I've been told this is incredibly common in the police tech industry.
 
2013-11-13 11:44:39 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.


TASER has a personal video recorder meant to be worn by law enforcement but for some reason it's being adopted more slowly by police departments than their other products.
 
2013-11-13 11:44:50 AM  

FarkedOver: Maybe we need more accountability for these meatheads that are given guns and badges.


Pshaw. Accountability is only for welfare recipients, not America's Heroes!
 
2013-11-13 11:45:22 AM  

Magorn: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

Not all cops, just the VAST majority of them.  I've worked with many cops over my professional career, sometimes on their side, sometimes against them.  I've gotten to know many of them personally and consider some to be my friends.  Nonetheless I know exactly zero cops who haven't committed perjury (we call it "testilying" in the bidness),, violated people's civil rights, or intentionally covered up for a dirty cop at the expense of innocent civilians


Your anonymous unsourced claim is just that, but it helpfully illstrates the REAL problem: that there seem to be few to no enforcable and measurable standards that can be leveraged to find and eliminate dirtbags like this guy until it's too late.

Pity so many are busy whining about their personal grudges instead of contacting legislatures and local government leaders.
 
2013-11-13 11:47:03 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Anybody who has never fired a gun, much less a pistol, in a life or death situation where your adrenaline is making your heart want to come out of your chest and your hands are shaky would say that 41 round with 38 missing is bad marksmanship.


I've never fired in a life or death situation, but (as a pistol instructor) I'd still say that missing ~93% of your shots is a bad score.  If you shoot that poorly, then your training was inadequate for the circumstances in which you were expected to perform.
 
2013-11-13 11:47:52 AM  

Mentalpatient87: alice_600: and thank you for your common sense

You might wanna go... learn. Just plain learn. You seem to be in need of it.



I have learned. I learned a lot possibly more than you have ever learned and one of them is that not everyone is after your god damn pot stash. The only reason you hate the cops is because they are doing something your parents never did. Make you behave in public.
 
2013-11-13 11:48:41 AM  

skozlaw: Pity so many are busy whining about their personal grudges instead of contacting legislatures and local government leaders.


Nobody in this thread has enough money to contact a legislator. Your obstinate insistence that you're right and there is something wrong with everyone else is disingenuous. Anectdotal evidence does not equal data...except when there is a lot of it...with citations.

But go on with your bad self. Its obvious by your handle that you either work in law enforcement, or wish you did. Ergo, a waste of time trying to convince.
 
2013-11-13 11:49:45 AM  

vygramul: PsyLord: FTA: He unloaded 41 rounds, pausing at least once to reload despite taking no return fire from Allen who was not in possession of a firearm. Three of those shots hit Allen, killing him. But 38 of Tuter's shots missed their target.

That's because cops are crappy shooters and are not even within the same league as your average CCW holder.

/amirite?

Now better, that's for certain. Of course, if a cop can't manage a single unarmed man with only 10 rounds, why are we demanding people in self-defense situations be limited to 10?


I'm guessing they are assuming the general public are better shots and don't need the extra five. This story is (anecdotal) evidence in support of that argument.
 
2013-11-13 11:49:57 AM  

cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.


You know that sounds very delusional right?
 
2013-11-13 11:50:10 AM  

cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.


I've never had a bad experience with a cop, but we give them way too much authority and far too little oversight. Is anyone really surprised when shiat like this happens and their buddies (including judge and lawyer coworkers) get them off the hook? I dont hate cops but I am sickened by what the institution of law enforcement has become.

/never had a bad experience with TSA either but I actually do hate them
 
2013-11-13 11:51:17 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.

TASER has a personal video recorder meant to be worn by law enforcement but for some reason it's being adopted more slowly by police departments than their other products.


It's no fun electrocuting people when it can get you in trouble.
 
2013-11-13 11:51:48 AM  

Madbassist1: Remember the cop who killed the double amputee for recklessly brandishing a ball point pen? Apparently the wheelchair was coming right at him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/brian-claunch-houston-shot- ma tthew-marin-police-cleared-disabled-amputee_n_4218889.html

I do not engage with the police, and I tell my children not to engage with the police.


That's gonna end really bad or really ironic when they go to college and become police officers.
 
2013-11-13 11:51:56 AM  

skozlaw: Magorn: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

Not all cops, just the VAST majority of them.  I've worked with many cops over my professional career, sometimes on their side, sometimes against them.  I've gotten to know many of them personally and consider some to be my friends.  Nonetheless I know exactly zero cops who haven't committed perjury (we call it "testilying" in the bidness),, violated people's civil rights, or intentionally covered up for a dirty cop at the expense of innocent civilians

Your anonymous unsourced claim is just that, but it helpfully illstrates the REAL problem: that there seem to be few to no enforcable and measurable standards that can be leveraged to find and eliminate dirtbags like this guy until it's too late.

Pity so many are busy whining about their personal grudges instead of contacting legislatures and local government leaders.


The police are a tool of the state.  You want us to contact the state and tell them to reign in their dogs?  Yep, that'll happen.
 
2013-11-13 11:52:16 AM  

RedPhoenix122: sirgrim: RedPhoenix122: Wrong subby, he hit with all 41 shots, just not the intended target.  All bullets gotta end up somewhere.

Which is the definition of missing.

When you fire 41 shots, you're not missing anymore, you're causing collateral damage, including possibly hitting bystanders.  This is why you don't fire 41 shots, you make sure you hit you're f-ing target.  People who spray and pray piss me off.


Missing and collateral damage are not mutually exclusive.
 
2013-11-13 11:52:29 AM  

the_foo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

If the police have to come and get you, they're bringin an ass-whoopin with them.

Since they're now saying he didn't try to ram the cops it sounds like the shooting was probably not justified, but I'm sick of TFAs switching straight into "poor innocent victim" mode. (Oh, he has kids? So does, like,  everybody). Why was he running from the cops again? "Allen had pending charges of evading arrest, drug possession and assault at the time of his death." (http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/tag/michael-vincent-allen/ ) Half hour chase exceeding 100MPH? Don't give me this bullshiat like he was some upstanding citizen minding his own business. The police being wrong doesn't make the person they're after right.


So, summary execution then?
Is that what's right here?
 
2013-11-13 11:54:30 AM  
Not expecting much of a welcome here, but. . .

I am a LEO, been on the force for a little over 2 years now.   I'm with a small police department in a small semi-rural town.  We've never had an officer-involved shooting, and the number of times officers have even had to draw their guns is pretty small.  No, we don't have tasers (no budget for them).

I just had my annual weapon qualification a couple of weeks ago.

In case you were wondering what an actual weapon marksmanship standard is (at least the one I have to shoot) for comparison:

Weapon is a Glock 22, aiming at a human silhouette target (with the head and upper torso area outlined).  Hits on the target are 1 point, hits in the head/upper torso vitals area are worth 2 points.

50 rounds.

First table of fire is a 10 round magazine, from 15 yards.  Draw the weapon and fire all 10 rounds in 60 seconds.
Second is another 10 round magazine, from 15 yards.  Draw the weapon and fire all 10 rounds in 45 seconds.
Third is another 10 round magazine, again from 15 yards.  Draw the weapon and fire all 10 rounds in 30 seconds.
Fourth is a 14 round magazine, from 7 yards.  Draw the weapon and fire a controlled pair into the target in 6 seconds.  Repeat this 7 times.
Fifth is a 6 round magazine, from 7 yards.  Draw the weapon and fire two rounds into the chest and one round into the head.  Repeat twice.

To qualify, you have to get at least 70 points, with at least 1 headshot.

I shot a 77.  49 of the 50 rounds hit the target, with 2 headshots (i.e. both attempts).

By policy no official record of score is kept though, for legal reasons.  The reasoning was explained to me that if you are a really hot shot and get into a shooting, someone could sue saying "you're such a great shot, why didn't you try to "shoot to wound", or shoot the gun out of his hand. . ." and if you're a marginal shot they could sue saying you're such a poor marksman that the reason the person is now in paralyzed was you couldn't even shoot to kill (in other words, whatever you do, a lawyer will use it against you, so no record is kept other than passing the minimum mandated standard).

By policy you have 3 tries to qualify before you have to be relieved of your weapon (and your peace officer status would be under review for failure to qualify, in other words your job would be in serious danger).  In practice over 90% of officers qualify the first time, and the other 10% qualify the second time.  I've never seen anybody fail more than once.

I know some agencies/departments around here make it more difficult by requiring multiple consecutive qualifications to count.  That means you'd have to shoot that course, then do it again a second time, or even a third time, and need the consecutive passing scores to stay qualified.

Not exactly super-marksmanship, but it means you can reliably hit and incapacitate a human target at the normal range a police officer would encounter a criminal at.
 
2013-11-13 11:55:42 AM  

RedPhoenix122: sirgrim: RedPhoenix122: Wrong subby, he hit with all 41 shots, just not the intended target.  All bullets gotta end up somewhere.

Which is the definition of missing.

When you fire 41 shots, you're not missing anymore, you're causing collateral damage, including possibly hitting bystanders.  This is why you don't fire 41 shots, you make sure you hit you're f-ing target.  People who spray and pray piss me off.


Indeed. Send them back to revolvers. Make your shots count.
 
2013-11-13 11:57:29 AM  

AgentPothead: You guys can only play the, but all cops aren't like this only a few are, card before it starts to make you look like an idiot.


Yet people still point out that only 1% of muslims are "extrmists".

Either a group represents the whole or it doesn't.

I'll let you choose.
 
2013-11-13 11:58:05 AM  
This is why cops should not be aloud to have guns.
 
2013-11-13 12:00:59 PM  

elysive: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

I've never had a bad experience with a cop, but we give them way too much authority and far too little oversight. Is anyone really surprised when shiat like this happens and their buddies (including judge and lawyer coworkers) get them off the hook? I dont hate cops but I am sickened by what the institution of law enforcement has become.

/never had a bad experience with TSA either but I actually do hate them


The problem though with domestic abuse cases is sometimes it can be hard to prove who was doing the hitting and provoking the hitting. There are some cases where it's he said, she said. There are some women's shelters who demonize men to the point where you feel you have to abort your next kid if he's male because he'll just rape all day long.

The shelter I worked at pissed me off to the point I quit because their program didn't empower and teach women how to protect their children. It was just making the victim always, the victim and never really recovering and realize that yeah there were signs but I didn't pay attention or control myself because I was in LOVE!"
 
2013-11-13 12:02:03 PM  

FarkedOver: skozlaw: Magorn: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

Not all cops, just the VAST majority of them.  I've worked with many cops over my professional career, sometimes on their side, sometimes against them.  I've gotten to know many of them personally and consider some to be my friends.  Nonetheless I know exactly zero cops who haven't committed perjury (we call it "testilying" in the bidness),, violated people's civil rights, or intentionally covered up for a dirty cop at the expense of innocent civilians

Your anonymous unsourced claim is just that, but it helpfully illstrates the REAL problem: that there seem to be few to no enforcable and measurable standards that can be leveraged to find and eliminate dirtbags like this guy until it's too late.

Pity so many are busy whining about their personal grudges instead of contacting legislatures and local government leaders.

The police are a tool of the state.  You want us to contact the state and tell them to reign in their dogs?  Yep, that'll happen.


Works for fundies why not everyone else?
 
2013-11-13 12:02:47 PM  

alice_600: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

You know that sounds very delusional right?


That is precisely what the way they want you to see it. The first move of ant predator is to discredit and/or disable the victim.
it warms my heart to see independent thinkers like yourself regurgitating this Bullsh*t.
Carry on good citizen!
 
2013-11-13 12:03:22 PM  
You have to admit, this was a highly emotionally charged situation.  After all, there was some maniac with a gun shooting all over the place.
 
2013-11-13 12:05:11 PM  
Forgetting all the other terrible things wrong with this cop's performance;

officers in most places aren't trained nor required to have any accuracy at range. Back in the day they'd qualify on a range dumping X rounds into a target at ~20yds.

Today, police firearm qualification tests for most involves a series of maneuvers/scenarios and most action involves firing inside of a 5 yard range.

And this makes sense, as most of their interactions requiring force take place at close range.

/There is still no excuse for this guy.
 
2013-11-13 12:05:48 PM  
This happened earlier (last year?) when that one ex-cop went on a rampage in California, when a cop fired a bunch of shots at a couple women in a truck and didn't even kill either of them. Sadly, I am piss-poor at remembering names.
 
2013-11-13 12:08:24 PM  

knobmaker: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

No.

This guy, therefore something seriously wrong with the way cops are hired, trained, and retained.


Yet there are those who would have us believe that only these trained professionals should be armed.
 
2013-11-13 12:10:18 PM  

alice_600: Madbassist1: Remember the cop who killed the double amputee for recklessly brandishing a ball point pen? Apparently the wheelchair was coming right at him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/brian-claunch-houston-shot- ma tthew-marin-police-cleared-disabled-amputee_n_4218889.html

I do not engage with the police, and I tell my children not to engage with the police.

That's gonna end really bad or really ironic when they go to college and become police officers.


You arent as clever as you think you are.
 
2013-11-13 12:10:32 PM  

alice_600: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

You know that sounds very delusional right?


In a thread where a cop is facing charges for killing a guy, you're doubting her story of cops...not killing someone?

???

The farking FBI was helping criminals murder our fellow citizens not all that long ago...why would you assume she's delusional about some podunk cops acting in a chickenshiat manner?

/I'm fine with good cops.
//drop the hammer on the bad ones.
 
2013-11-13 12:12:12 PM  

Silverstaff: By policy no official record of score is kept though, for legal reasons.  The reasoning was explained to me that if you are a really hot shot and get into a shooting, someone could sue saying "you're such a great shot, why didn't you try to "shoot to wound", or shoot the gun out of his hand. . ." and if you're a marginal shot they could sue saying you're such a poor marksman that the reason the person is now in paralyzed was you couldn't even shoot to kill (in other words, whatever you do, a lawyer will use it against you, so no record is kept other than passing the minimum mandated standard).


I have a huge problem with this. Just because a lawyer might use your data against you is not a good reason to essentially destroy records. This is just a small example of exactly what's wrong with the law enforcement in this country.
 
2013-11-13 12:13:21 PM  

skozlaw: Ned Stark: How many times does it have to happen before we are allowed to notice a pattern?

I don't know. Ask CATO. They've been on this for years and have actually been producing useful information and arguments about the problem. One of the few useful things they've ever done.

The key here is that there's a difference between a pattern and a solid color and a lot of farkers in this threads seem to have a hard time understanding that. Notice how CATO, however, doesn't run around pretending that EVERY cop is like this. Because that doesn't help. Because it's not true.


Every cop is not like that. Every cop is, however, complicit in it, as are the preponderance of prosecutors, judges and legislators. Same issue with the "Christians" in this country. The moderates and decent ones still identify with, support and protect the extremists among them.
 
2013-11-13 12:14:17 PM  

JoieD'Zen: alice_600: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

You know that sounds very delusional right?

That is precisely what the way they want you to see it. The first move of ant predator is to discredit and/or disable the victim.
it warms my heart to see independent thinkers like yourself regurgitating this Bullsh*t.
Carry on good citizen!


Well what do you want me to do now? I can't go back in time and correct it?  I can't say "bad cops, no biscut!" I can't hate the cops they saved me from a mother who tried to kill me when she didn't want me to go into my Dad's custody.
 
2013-11-13 12:16:11 PM  

alice_600: Well what do you want me to do now? I can't go back in time and correct it? I can't say "bad cops, no biscut!" I can't hate the cops they saved me from a mother who tried to kill me when she didn't want me to go into my Dad's custody.


You can admit you're biased and too obstinate to change your position.
 
2013-11-13 12:16:22 PM  
Some of you cop apologists are just making yourself look stupid.  If I wasn't hungover it'd be easier to text out my well-reasoned response on my way to work. Hold on...getting pulled over.
 
2013-11-13 12:17:20 PM  

Madbassist1: Its obvious by your handle that you either work in law enforcement, or wish you did.


Or maybe it's my first initial and part of my last name.

But, no, I'd love to know since you didn't actually bother to read any of my other posts, what, exactly, do you think I'm arguing for or against?

cryinoutloud: [brevity]


And in a country of over three hundred million there are thousands of stories like yours, but that's still not actual data and it's still not an appropriate or intelligent way to formulate an opinion on or approach the problem.

Most of us accept that there is a problem. There is, in fact, considerable real data that proves it. Nobody is seriously debating that.

The problem we have with the debate that's actually happening is that too many people have done what you have: ignored the real data and instead focused on your emotional connection to the issue. That's not going to accomplish any real reform. Not on this or any other issue.

Running around screaming that you hate the cops and they're all pigs and they're all out to get you and terrorists and blah blah blah isn't going to accomplish shiat except getting reasonable people to ignore you and deaden them on the issue, guaranteeing the problem is NEVER addressed.
 
2013-11-13 12:17:45 PM  

Madbassist1: alice_600: Madbassist1: Remember the cop who killed the double amputee for recklessly brandishing a ball point pen? Apparently the wheelchair was coming right at him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/brian-claunch-houston-shot- ma tthew-marin-police-cleared-disabled-amputee_n_4218889.html

I do not engage with the police, and I tell my children not to engage with the police.

That's gonna end really bad or really ironic when they go to college and become police officers.

You arent as clever as you think you are.


But I know it's pissing you off.
 
2013-11-13 12:18:37 PM  

alice_600: elysive: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

I've never had a bad experience with a cop, but we give them way too much authority and far too little oversight. Is anyone really surprised when shiat like this happens and their buddies (including judge and lawyer coworkers) get them off the hook? I dont hate cops but I am sickened by what the institution of law enforcement has become.

/never had a bad experience with TSA either but I actually do hate them

The problem though with domestic abuse cases is sometimes it can be hard to prove who was doing the hitting and provoking the hitting. There are some cases where it's he said, she said. There are some women's shelters who demonize men to the point where you feel you have to abort your next kid if he's male because he'll just rape all day long.

The shelter I worked at pissed me off to the point I quit because their program didn't empower and teach women how to protect their children. I ...


Well, my post really wasnt about domestic abuse, but since I replied to one I'll bite. Women and domestic violence victims should be empowered. They should be taught no holds barred how to protect themselves and should learn how to protect those under their care (accepting responsibility for another can be empowering itself). However, the suggestion that victims somehow provoke and deserve abuse is a load of horse shiat. That's what you're suggesting because to us normal people "who provokes the hitting" isnt a thing and shouldnt be a police consideration.

Even if I initiate an argument, it does not excuse my partner from strangling, beating or otherwise abusing me.
 
2013-11-13 12:20:36 PM  

Madbassist1: alice_600: Well what do you want me to do now? I can't go back in time and correct it? I can't say "bad cops, no biscut!" I can't hate the cops they saved me from a mother who tried to kill me when she didn't want me to go into my Dad's custody.

You can admit you're biased and too obstinate to change your position.


As long as you admit that you are the same.
 
2013-11-13 12:20:44 PM  

alice_600: JoieD'Zen: alice_600: cryinoutloud: skozlaw: These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.
Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Doubtful. You know why I hate cops? Because when I was afraid for my life, the cops in my little tiny town, who knew me personally, covered up domestic abuse, deleted 911 calls, harassed me, threatened to have my dog killed, and threw away a police report where they documented that my ex was beating on me, right in front of the police station.

This all happened before I joined the Fark hate train. I really had no opinion about police in general, until I saw for myself what a bunch of lying, abusive, cowardly assholes a lot of them are.

You know that sounds very delusional right?

That is precisely what the way they want you to see it. The first move of ant predator is to discredit and/or disable the victim.
it warms my heart to see independent thinkers like yourself regurgitating this Bullsh*t.
Carry on good citizen!

Well what do you want me to do now? I can't go back in time and correct it?  I can't say "bad cops, no biscut!" I can't hate the cops they saved me from a mother who tried to kill me when she didn't want me to go into my Dad's custody.


You sound paranoid. No Mother would try to kill her own child.
 
2013-11-13 12:20:44 PM  

stuffy: This is why cops should not be aloud to have guns.


Can they be whispered to have guns?
 
2013-11-13 12:24:13 PM  
Who are any of you to judge?
This is the ultimate alpha male job. It's for the toughest and strongest, both mentally and physically. They live by a warrior's code, something most of you cannot begin to understand
 
2013-11-13 12:24:37 PM  

JoieD'Zen: No Mother would try to kill her own child


Note: I am neither supporting nor condemning alice_600's post, but is this a joke? Do you really believe that?
 
2013-11-13 12:24:38 PM  
Most recreational shooters I know around here hate when cops show up at the range because they are generally lousy shots and try to disregard range safety rules.

They do get amused when cops show up to participate in shooting contests because they typically get pwned by 50 year old fat guys.
 
2013-11-13 12:24:59 PM  

skozlaw: Running around screaming that you hate the cops and they're all pigs and they're all out to get you and terrorists and blah blah blah isn't going to accomplish shiat except getting reasonable people to ignore you and deaden them on the issue, guaranteeing the problem is NEVER addressed.


Hey for the record (and I know you arent addressing me directly here), U dont hate cops, I dont think they're pigs and terrorists. But if you willingly choose to keep company with people who can kill you on a whim with no repercussions, when you cannot deal the same hand. You're just a farking fool.

/Cops also lie. All the time. Read any number of police reports. They all read the same because cops use the same phrasing that they know justify their actions.

/yeah its anecdotal,

//its farking evidence no matter how much you wish it weren't
 
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