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(Opposing Views)   Forget for a moment that this cop fired 41 times at an unarmed man sitting in a pickup truck that was stuck between two police cars. Let's consider for a moment the fact that 38 of those shots missed   (opposingviews.com) divider line 313
    More: Scary, Officer Tuter, patrol cars, Dallas County  
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12561 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2013 at 10:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



313 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-13 10:58:11 AM  
If you're a cop that was actually fired (and not just given a two month paid vacation).......

When you're indicted by a Grand Jury...............

When you're held at an unusually high bail....................

All while in TEXAS................


OooooooBOY, did you ever F up if even Texans think that was a bit excessive, Officer Oink!
 
2013-11-13 10:58:14 AM  
When groups like CATO say that cops are the problem, then you know that cops are the problem.
 
2013-11-13 10:59:26 AM  
Here is an interesting kickstarter project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1850434439/puppycide-the-document a ry

Apparently the police kill a dog every 98 seconds in this country.
 
2013-11-13 10:59:27 AM  
never, ever run from cops.

kushsmoke.com
 
2013-11-13 10:59:31 AM  

Lost Thought 00: So he stopped to reload 3 times?


Only once if he used this:
ecx.images-amazon.com
/and had a full mag with one in the hole.
 
2013-11-13 11:00:01 AM  

skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.


Home Depot have a sale on broad brushes?
 
2013-11-13 11:00:08 AM  
Hey John Law, if you read the article:

Because individual police departments are not required to submit information regarding the use of deadly force by its officers...

Maybe we need more accountability for these meatheads that are given guns and badges.


That's fine, but that's not what you started off talking about. I absolutely would like more accountability of law enforcement, but FFS can you stay on topic for more than one post in a row? You posted info from a crap source, and everyone that calls you on it isn't a cop.
 
2013-11-13 11:00:28 AM  

knobmaker: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

No.

This guy, therefore something seriously wrong with the way cops are hired, trained, and retained.


Cops are like politicians, the ones who really want the job are the ones you really don't want to have the job.
 
2013-11-13 11:00:33 AM  

skozlaw: FarkedOver: A police apologist!

Oh, look. You got called on your BS so you just make shiat up. What a shocker.

Post a legitimate source or STFU with your INFOWARS-wannabe horsehiat. It's not exactly hard. They even have the goddamn CATO work on the subject in your garbage article, you only had to click one more link and copy that URL instead to not be a raging retard.

knobmaker: This guy, therefore something seriously wrong with the way cops are hired, trained, and retained.

Three of the first six comments before I posted were generic biatching about all cops, so, yea.

These threads are NEVER about the actual abuses that are occurring, they're just biatch fests from losers who had run-ins with cops because they were doing stupid shiat and they want to whine about the chips on their shoulders.

Farkers seem to have a very hard time distinguishing between cops in riot gear with heavy armaments that kick in a door and shoot the dog in the face because some guy was smoking dope in his living room and the time they got stopped on the sidewalk because they were stumbling around drunk.

Nobody cars that Office Jerkass was mean to you because you were being a dickbag, that's not really a problem, especially not in the face of this type of shiat.


You are awesome and thank you for your common sense. If I could I would make you cookies.
 
2013-11-13 11:00:35 AM  
Isn't that more shots than the whole German police force fired in a year?
 
2013-11-13 11:01:21 AM  

mediablitz: "More and more, we're learning that the account given by the police officer is not what actually occurred,"

Welcome to any time prior to dashboard cams...


This is soon going to be a major problem for the police and courts. Stories of incidents where police are shielded from their abuse of power are no longer confined to friends and family of the victims but can get national attention, and there is no shortage of then. If they keep this up for much longer the public will have virtually no faith in the police either on patrol or when they testify in the courtroom.

All for the sake of protecting cops who abuse their power and break the law.
 
2013-11-13 11:02:21 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: At least this idiot got fired and charged.


I won't consider it over until he's taking blah weenor up the hiney in the prison shower every night. This creep might still get to walk free.
 
2013-11-13 11:02:26 AM  

Ned Stark: skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.

How many times does it have to happen before we are allowed to notice a pattern?


Patronizing people with illogical bullshiat is his profession.

He's a lawyer.
 
2013-11-13 11:02:54 AM  
"Who's driving shooting at the car, Stevie Wonder??"
 
2013-11-13 11:03:22 AM  

alice_600: and thank you for your common sense


You might wanna go... learn. Just plain learn. You seem to be in need of it.
 
2013-11-13 11:04:32 AM  
The police need to be recorded every single second they are on duty.  Internal Affairs needs to be replaced with a civilian oversight commission.  The thin blue line must be destroyed.
 
2013-11-13 11:05:45 AM  

Ned Stark: How many times does it have to happen before we are allowed to notice a pattern?


I don't know. Ask CATO. They've been on this for years and have actually been producing useful information and arguments about the problem. One of the few useful things they've ever done.

The key here is that there's a difference between a pattern and a solid color and a lot of farkers in this threads seem to have a hard time understanding that. Notice how CATO, however, doesn't run around pretending that EVERY cop is like this. Because that doesn't help. Because it's not true.
 
2013-11-13 11:05:53 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.


GPS too
 
2013-11-13 11:06:23 AM  

generallyso: How should they write about a deceased person who hadn't done anything to warrant being deceased?


They might try some nuance.
 
2013-11-13 11:06:31 AM  

PsyLord: That's because cops are crappy shooters and are not even within the same league as your average CCW holder.


This is a pretty common theme, but I do have anecdotal evidence that some of the law enforcement in my area are not actually that bad at shooting.

My range's last USPSA match of the year was last weekend, and someone persuaded a whole contingent of LEO's to stop by and shoot it with us.  They did not do too poorly, in fact some of them were reasonably competitive in their divisions.  I had been all spun up to chortle to myself about how terrible the professionals were, and I was pleasantly surprised.

Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.


It seems like this should be easy to market to the cops themselves.  "Are you tired of being dragged up on bs he-said/she-said accusations of brutality ect, well our patented tamper-free wearable camera system will provide you with unimpeachable record of your behavior."  It would only work for the relatively honest ones, but in spite of fark hate, I think there is still a majority of cops who do their jobs professionally.  (Or at least, every single one that I have encountered in my region)
 
2013-11-13 11:07:10 AM  
Police and judges need mandatory maximum sentences. It's their job to know better.
 
2013-11-13 11:08:09 AM  

FarkedOver: Since 9/11/2011 the police in this country have killed over 5,000 people.  Who are the real terrorists?

http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civili an s-since-911/172029/


People who use bullshiat statistics?  FTFA: ~~Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it's estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year.

For the record, I think this cop belongs in the "pig" category and should spend the rest of his life behind bars.
 
2013-11-13 11:09:58 AM  

skozlaw: Notice how CATO, however, doesn't run around pretending that EVERY cop is like this. Because that doesn't help. Because it's not true.


So you're being a big crybaby over hyperbole because you wanted to defend the cops. Gotcha.
 
2013-11-13 11:10:19 AM  
FarkedOver:This guy, therefore something seriously wrong with the way cops are hired, trained, and retained.

Straight out of high school from the high school football team?


It's not that. I think the issue is that US laws have made everyone a criminal and promoted the idea that dangerous armed villains are lurking everywhere. That's rubbed off on police and they've come to see themselves as under siege. Giving police military gear is a downward spiral. We wouldn't have been given light tanks and machine guns unless we needed them and since we need them we need to use them.
 
2013-11-13 11:11:15 AM  

FilmBELOH20: FarkedOver: Since 9/11/2011 the police in this country have killed over 5,000 people.  Who are the real terrorists?

http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civili an s-since-911/172029/

People who use bullshiat statistics?  FTFA: ~~Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it's estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year.

For the record, I think this cop belongs in the "pig" category and should spend the rest of his life behind bars.


Because police departments are not required to do so!

We can just take their word on it that they are doing a fine upstanding job.
 
2013-11-13 11:11:51 AM  
Wrong subby, he hit with all 41 shots, just not the intended target.  All bullets gotta end up somewhere.
 
2013-11-13 11:12:37 AM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: It's not that. I think the issue is that US laws have made everyone a criminal and promoted the idea that dangerous armed villains are lurking everywhere. That's rubbed off on police and they've come to see themselves as under siege. Giving police military gear is a downward spiral. We wouldn't have been given light tanks and machine guns unless we needed them and since we need them we need to use them.


It's also a problem that police departments are the first place returning veterans are turning to for a job.  They should work in any other field that doesn't involve a weapon.
 
2013-11-13 11:16:01 AM  

FarkedOver: The police need to be recorded every single second they are on duty.  Internal Affairs needs to be replaced with a civilian oversight commission.  The thin blue line must be destroyed.

I totally agree. Cops only have to be truthful when they are under oath (in court, talking with a judge).
The need to get a confession from a possible suspect overrules  citizen's rights. The public should demand that the right for complete truth and accuracy in legal matters should be greater than a police officers' right to privacy.

 
2013-11-13 11:16:07 AM  
Yes, yes it seems like a lot of bullets missed, except when you factor in he was using a pistol, was jumped up on adrenaline, and the guy had partial cover.

Anybody who has never fired a gun, much less a pistol, in a life or death situation where your adrenaline is making your heart want to come out of your chest and your hands are shaky would say that 41 round with 38 missing is bad marksmanship.

Any body who has is surprised seven of those rounds from a pistol found their mark. There is a reason the Army spends a lot of time teaching people how to shoot and how to act calmly under very scary conditions. There is also a reason they use automatic weapons, because pretty much humans suck at shooting when scared or excited and more lead toward the bad guys is better than less.
 
2013-11-13 11:17:25 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Wrong subby, he hit with all 41 shots, just not the intended target.  All bullets gotta end up somewhere.


Which is the definition of missing.
 
2013-11-13 11:17:52 AM  

Mentalpatient87: skozlaw: Notice how CATO, however, doesn't run around pretending that EVERY cop is like this. Because that doesn't help. Because it's not true.

So you're being a big crybaby over hyperbole because you wanted to defend the cops. Gotcha.


Yea, how stupid I am. Thinking a problem should be approached with verifiable facts instead of whiny hyperbole. How dumb I am.
 
2013-11-13 11:18:08 AM  

6655321: I totally agree. Cops only have to be truthful when they are under oath (in court, talking with a judge).
The need to get a confession from a possible suspect overrules citizen's rights. The public should demand that the right for complete truth and accuracy in legal matters should be greater than a police officers' right to privacy on the job.



There. That's better.  I don't care what they do when they are not wearing the badge.
 
2013-11-13 11:20:35 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Yes, yes it seems like a lot of bullets missed, except when you factor in he was using a pistol, was jumped up on adrenaline, and the guy had partial cover.

Anybody who has never fired a gun, much less a pistol, in a life or death situation where your adrenaline is making your heart want to come out of your chest and your hands are shaky would say that 41 round with 38 missing is bad marksmanship.

Any body who has is surprised seven of those rounds from a pistol found their mark. There is a reason the Army spends a lot of time teaching people how to shoot and how to act calmly under very scary conditions. There is also a reason they use automatic weapons, because pretty much humans suck at shooting when scared or excited and more lead toward the bad guys is better than less.


If you carry a gun, I hope your marksmanship is better than your math.
 
2013-11-13 11:20:58 AM  

FarkedOver: Here is an interesting kickstarter project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1850434439/puppycide-the-document a ry

Apparently the police kill a dog every 98 seconds in this country.

 Apparently, facts aren't your strong suit.
 
2013-11-13 11:21:09 AM  

skozlaw: How dumb I am.


As long as you're aware, and also Welcome to Fark.
 
2013-11-13 11:21:13 AM  

MythDragon: Lost Thought 00: So he stopped to reload 3 times?

Only once if he used this:
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 500x339]
/and had a full mag with one in the hole.


No.
 
2013-11-13 11:21:15 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: a life or death situation


for the guy he murdered, sure...
 
2013-11-13 11:22:04 AM  

Carousel Beast: Apparently, facts aren't your strong suit.


Apparently, you don't give a shiat about accountability.  At least other people do.
 
2013-11-13 11:22:23 AM  

skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.


Well, this guy plus the other cops who lied about it minus all the cops who stepped forward to tell the truth...

Therefore all cops.
 
2013-11-13 11:23:24 AM  

sirgrim: RedPhoenix122: Wrong subby, he hit with all 41 shots, just not the intended target.  All bullets gotta end up somewhere.

Which is the definition of missing.


When you fire 41 shots, you're not missing anymore, you're causing collateral damage, including possibly hitting bystanders.  This is why you don't fire 41 shots, you make sure you hit you're f-ing target.  People who spray and pray piss me off.
 
2013-11-13 11:23:59 AM  

RedPhoenix122: you're


Your.  Farking A I'm tired.
 
2013-11-13 11:24:58 AM  
LOL An honor graduate of the government training you hoplophobes want to inflict on law abiding gun owners.
 
2013-11-13 11:25:15 AM  
www.thegirlsstuff.com
 
2013-11-13 11:28:15 AM  

FTFA:

The other officer at the scene fired no shots and actually took cover behind his squad car as Tuter continued to pump bullets at the immobilized pickup truck.


I notice none of his accomplices are being charged. If this wasn't a government criminal all parties in accessory would be facing the same murder rap.

Also note that none of his coconspirators tried to stop him from committing murder.

... but he's the "one bad apple" amirite?!
 
2013-11-13 11:29:04 AM  

the_foo: generallyso: How should they write about a deceased person who hadn't done anything to warrant being deceased?

They might try some nuance.


You'd need to give them a dictionary first.
 
2013-11-13 11:31:25 AM  
Bam! Bam! Bam!

!www.quickmeme.com
 
2013-11-13 11:32:33 AM  

the_foo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

If the police have to come and get you, they're bringin an ass-whoopin with them.

Since they're now saying he didn't try to ram the cops it sounds like the shooting was probably not justified, but I'm sick of TFAs switching straight into "poor innocent victim" mode. (Oh, he has kids? So does, like,  everybody). Why was he running from the cops again? "Allen had pending charges of evading arrest, drug possession and assault at the time of his death." (http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/tag/michael-vincent-allen/ ) Half hour chase exceeding 100MPH? Don't give me this bullshiat like he was some upstanding citizen minding his own business. The police being wrong doesn't make the person they're after right.


The inverse of that statement is true, also. Victim blaming isn't any more righteous than criminal defending, ya know. He wasn't innocent, but he should not have been killed, and definitely not shot at forty-one farking times.
 
2013-11-13 11:32:56 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Put cameras on every last one of them.


LOL remember that incident in PG county MD where seven police cruisers responded to a scene and the suspect somehow got beaten to a pulp? Turns out, somehow, all seven dash cam "malfunctioned." What are the odds?
 
2013-11-13 11:34:43 AM  

skozlaw: This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.


Not all cops, just the VAST majority of them.  I've worked with many cops over my professional career, sometimes on their side, sometimes against them.  I've gotten to know many of them personally and consider some to be my friends.  Nonetheless I know exactly zero cops who haven't committed perjury (we call it "testilying" in the bidness),, violated people's civil rights, or intentionally covered up for a dirty cop at the expense of innocent civilians
 
2013-11-13 11:34:49 AM  
skozlaw


This thread summed up already:

This guy, therefore all cops.
"All" is a silly term, but answer us this. How many of his partners in this murder tried to stop him? None? Then yes, all of this group which indicates a problem with everyone under this department/training team.
 
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