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(Time)   The sun is about to flip upside down, switching left and right   (science.time.com) divider line 23
    More: Interesting, the Sun, Maunder Minimum, solar telescopes, space weathers, Richard Carrington, Solar Dynamics Observatory, poison ivy, Little Ice Age  
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3544 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Nov 2013 at 7:59 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



23 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-13 08:06:22 AM
Starting to become bizarre how all these articles keep pushing the 11 year cycle thing, when the peak of the 11 year cycle was supposed to be last year, and they're still waiting for it.

/When the universe doesn't act like you expect it to, just pretend it did.
 
2013-11-13 08:11:04 AM
And I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there...
 
2013-11-13 08:15:34 AM

J. Frank Parnell: Starting to become bizarre how all these articles keep pushing the 11 year cycle thing, when the peak of the 11 year cycle was supposed to be last year, and they're still waiting for it.

/When the universe doesn't act like you expect it to, just pretend it did.


The articles are dumbed down, so a lot of details get left out. There's also a lot of theory on solar dynamics that simply isn't accepted by mainstream researchers, so on technical threads you get some serious chart wars...
 
2013-11-13 08:19:27 AM
So will toilets start draining clockwise in Australia now?
 
2013-11-13 08:22:38 AM
will dogs and cats cease living together?
 
2013-11-13 08:24:03 AM

SVenus: The articles are dumbed down, so a lot of details get left out. There's also a lot of theory on solar dynamics that simply isn't accepted by mainstream researchers, so on technical threads you get some serious chart wars...


Oh, i'm well aware of that.

But i really suspect this is more about maintaining the idea we have the sun all figured out, or maybe even deliberately avoiding the very real possibility that the delay is an indication of a much more intense solar maximum when it does happen.
 
2013-11-13 08:48:12 AM
I had never heard of the Carrington Event before and just ate up that story. I would kind of like to witness something like that but without disastrous results.
 
2013-11-13 09:03:38 AM

J. Frank Parnell: But i really suspect this is more about maintaining the idea we have the sun all figured out, or maybe even deliberately avoiding the very real possibility that the delay is an indication of a much more intense solar maximum when it does happen.


No, it's not maintaining some abstract fallacy. It's acknowledgement of data gathered for the past 500 years or so that show the sun's primary (as counted by sunspots) cycle is about 10.8 years long on average. Cycle length has ranged from as little as about 8 years to as long as 14, so a 12 or 13 year cycle is perfectly normal.

Moreover, delayed onset of a new cycle is indicative of a LESS intensive next maximum...and a cooler climate for a decade or so. Link a couple of low, long cycles together and we could be looking at decades of bitter cold winters and cool summers. We'll know more in about a decade.
 
2013-11-13 09:06:03 AM
TFA:  From the mid-1600's until about 1715, observers saw barely any sunspots ... During this period, known as the Maunder Minimum, temperatures in Europe were abnormally low -- so low that people could (and did) ice skate on the Thames, which never freezes today.


While the low temperatures of the time were certainly a factor, another reason the Thames could freeze then -- and not now -- was the constriction at the medieval London Bridge, whose 19 stone arches stood upon massive piers which acted as a dam upon the river:

yafh.com

London's final "Frost Fair" (in which games and festivities were held upon the frozen surface of the Thames) occured in 1814 -- just 16 years before the last remnants of the medieval London Bridge were finally dismantled, allowing the river to flow freely again after its 600-year existence.
 
2013-11-13 09:18:00 AM
And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!!!
 
2013-11-13 09:21:47 AM
Why do you think we do daylight savings time, subby?
 
2013-11-13 09:38:25 AM
Can we shut everything down now?
 
2013-11-13 09:48:04 AM

Stone Meadow: No, it's not maintaining some abstract fallacy. It's acknowledgement of data gathered for the past 500 years or so that show the sun's primary (as counted by sunspots) cycle is about 10.8 years long on average. Cycle length has ranged from as little as about 8 years to as long as 14, so a 12 or 13 year cycle is perfectly normal.


it's almost like on a 4.6 billion year scale, + or - 3 yrs is almost insignificant.
 
2013-11-13 09:54:15 AM

noazark: While the low temperatures of the time were certainly a factor, another reason the Thames could freeze then -- and not now -- was the constriction at the medieval London Bridge, whose 19 stone arches stood upon massive piers which acted as a dam upon the river:


I started re-reading some on the little ice age after seeing this (I tend to read about shiat that peaks my interest at the time) and a lot of theories around what caused it seem to point to a lot of major volcanic eruptions in the early 1200s and 1300s or so.

I then googled trying to see if there's any theories on how to cause volcanoes to erupt, but all that it pulled was making those homemade ones with baking soda and shiat.

Is there any theories on how to make real known volcanoes that are out there erupt, seems enough ash in the air might cause some global cooling, wouldn't that help things? =)
 
2013-11-13 10:00:57 AM

KellyX: Is there any theories on how to make real known volcanoes that are out there erupt, seems enough ash in the air might cause some global cooling, wouldn't that help things? =)


that's all well and good until you unleash the Yellowstone caldera which will turn the Earth into that volcano planet from Revenge of the Sith

/YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!
 
2013-11-13 01:29:25 PM

Stone Meadow: No, it's not maintaining some abstract fallacy. It's acknowledgement of data gathered for the past 500 years or so that show the sun's primary (as counted by sunspots) cycle is about 10.8 years long on average. Cycle length has ranged from as little as about 8 years to as long as 14, so a 12 or 13 year cycle is perfectly normal.


Well it sure seemed to confuse NASA. But maybe you know something they don't.

And like i said, that's after it failed to happen in 2012. Which they were certain enough about to hype a particularly strong solar maximum for at least 5 years leading up to it. Making no mention they could be a year or two off. When it didn't happen in 2012 they were equally confused, but put everyone at ease saying it would happen in 2013, and here we are. I guess it's 2014 now?

And i wasn't aware they've now switched from predicting the next solar max to be powerful, like they have maintained for the last decade, to predicting it will the extremely weak. Just goes to show how much of a mystery the sun remains to even the experts.
 
2013-11-13 01:32:00 PM
Hmm, for some reason Fark didn't like this link.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/nasa-baffled-sun-it-shows-near l y-no-activity-during-peak-period

Was supposed to be imbedded into "Well it sure seemed to confuse NASA". So, just use your imagination and pretend it is, i guess.
 
2013-11-13 02:04:15 PM
But it's still the same in a relative way.
 
2013-11-13 02:52:05 PM

Arkanaut: But it's still the same in a relative way.


but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
 
2013-11-13 05:03:51 PM

KellyX: Is there any theories on how to make real known volcanoes that are out there erupt, seems enough ash in the air might cause some global cooling, wouldn't that help things? =)


1. Take 1 Tsar Bomba
2. Bury 1 mile under Yellowstone Caldera
3. Retreat to skull-shaped lair on remote Carribbean island
4. Remotely detonate
5. Wait until following July
6. Ski fresh pow in Colorado Rockies

You might also bury one under Long Valley Caldera, maybe one in Iceland and one or two others in various locations around the tropics and maybe one or two in various large volcanoes south of the Equator to ensure plenty of volcanic gases get released all at once at various latitudes.

/And it's not so much the ash as the sulphur dioxide and other such byproducts of volcanic eruptions that cause cooling effects.
 
2013-11-13 06:10:48 PM

dentalhilljack: And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!!!


that's slick willy for ya
 
2013-11-13 11:42:56 PM
I'm not clear on the correlation of the amount of sunspots vs overall climate on this planet. Someone care to elaborate?
 
2013-11-14 02:31:58 PM

kayanlau: I'm not clear on the correlation of the amount of sunspots vs overall climate on this planet. Someone care to elaborate?


There's no clear cause/effect relationship other than when the sunspots went away, it got cold across much of the planet.
There's speculation related to cosmic rays, seeing as the activity of the sun during periods of sunspots suppresses the cosmic rays within the heliosphere.
Additional cosmic rays may or may not lead to additional cloud formation in the atmosphere.
More clouds will lead to cooler temperatures.

I personally don't buy the cosmic ray theory for cooler temps with fewer sunspots, but do note that there are projections for at least a decade with a Sun that has fewer sunspots than the previous 9 decades.
 
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