If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Atlantic)   Arcade Fire marketing campaign trades on bigoted stereotypes of Haitians to promote "Reflektor," and no one has called them out. Until now: "There's a tradition of racism hiding under the veil of spectacular art"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 50
    More: Asinine, Arcade Fire, Reflektor, Haitians, marketing, Win Butler, Stereogum, crowd watching, racial politics  
•       •       •

2417 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 13 Nov 2013 at 12:04 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-11-12 11:39:38 PM
Uh-oh, we got a badass here!
 
2013-11-12 11:57:45 PM
I wonder if the author is too young to know the background of Paul Simon's Graceland, and what he would think of it.  I can't think of anyone who thought it was exploitative at the time.  It was an appreciation.

Still, as far as exploitation is concerned, there's Arcade Fire and their actual (tenuous) connection to Haiti, the Haitian influence on the music, and then there's things like this:

img713.imageshack.us
(and of course Madonna and others waaay before her)

I can almost see where the author thinks Arcade Fire was being exploitative, but there's a fine line between that and homage.  Exploitation is ridicule or unfair treatment to reap personal gains.

Also this statement is a little naive, at best:

Nevertheless, there's a troubling dynamic in play when Arcade Fire alone-rather than the people of Haiti together-is the sole arbiter of what is worth passing on in Haitian culture, and when the way it's passed on will only perpetuate stereotypes about the country.

1) The people of Haiti rightfully won't agree on what's for dinner tonight, much less what is worth passing on in Haitian culture
2)  Who said Arcade Fire is the sole arbiter of passing on Haitian culture?
 
2013-11-13 12:12:10 AM
From skimming, what I got was, "I LIKED ARCARDE FAR BEFORE EVERYONE NEW ABOUT THEM".
 
2013-11-13 12:17:53 AM
Oh look, a self-important twat of a writer decides what is and isn't racism for everyone. Maybe nobody else complained because they don't see it as racism.
 
2013-11-13 12:28:57 AM
Nothing else happening this week to get our panties in a twist about?
 
2013-11-13 12:30:05 AM
inB4 "PRETENTIOUS, HIPSTER, and now RACIST! Ima go wack off on a Pink Floyd album!"
 
2013-11-13 12:34:03 AM
nah. not a sexy enough nontroversy for the tumblr social justice warriors to care.
 
2013-11-13 12:39:35 AM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-11-13 12:39:45 AM
The Atlantic is slowly turning into Slate isn't it?

Well, that's a shame.
 
2013-11-13 12:46:49 AM

Foxxinnia: The Atlantic is slowly turning into Slate isn't it?

Well, that's a shame.


That's because Slate became HuffPo, and HuffPo is turning into the gif minefield that is Buzzfeed. Buzzfeed is at the bottom, so not sure if they can innovate enough to sink lower.
 
2013-11-13 12:47:54 AM

Treygreen13: [media.tumblr.com image 500x333]


Is it just me, or is the Internet getting dumber every year?
 
2013-11-13 12:49:11 AM
Lsherm: "I wonder if the author is too young to know the background of Paul Simon's Graceland, and what he would think of it.  I can't think of anyone who thought it was exploitative at the time.  It was an appreciation."
And because of it we now have Vampire Weekend. Ugh.

"Who said Arcade Fire is the sole arbiter of passing on Haitian culture?"
Arcade Fire isn't even an arbiter of passing Canadian gas. Double ugh.
 
2013-11-13 12:50:35 AM
If you can't explain to me why something is racist in one paragraph, then you've lost me.

For example, one famous white chick dressed up as some less famous black chick from a netflix show. She darkened her skin, which some do, and some do not, consider racist. One author made a very good point that when a black person dresses up as say, superman, they don't feel the need to go white face.

My point is made, whether you agree or not, in one paragraph.

/exhausted. did i use the right slash?
 
2013-11-13 12:50:48 AM
This is just like when we ignore the misogynist overtones in ALL of modern popular culture.
 
2013-11-13 12:58:34 AM

Lsherm: I wonder if the author is too young to know the background of Paul Simon's Graceland, and what he would think of it.  I can't think of anyone who thought it was exploitative at the time.  It was an appreciation.


It was called exploitative at the time by some. There's a documentary I've seen with footage of him getting shouted at by people for not only not adhering to the boycott of South Africa, but for exploiting black musicians and African music in general (a white guy shouting it) as well. To which he responds that the musicians themselves have no problem with it, does that kid know better than the musicians themselves, and that he wants the States to appreciate African music and these musicians in particular like he does. I think it's called 'Under African Skies', the documentary.
 
2013-11-13 12:59:52 AM

Top Geezer: Arcade Fire isn't even an arbiter of passing Canadian gas. Double ugh.


I like this and I'm stealing this, but only because I've heard it before and you reminded me of it.

I also don't know Arcade Fire beyond the Sprawl song, I haven't heard their new album at all.
 
2013-11-13 01:02:48 AM

ilikeracecars: One author made a very good point that when a black person dresses up as say, superman, they don't feel the need to go white face.


Probably because a whiteface black Superman would look too much like a clown. It's not like anyone is ever shocked or offended by whiteface.

themeatlockersports.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-11-13 01:05:15 AM
FTFA:  It turns out those designs were inspired by Haitian veve graffiti, used in syncretistic Vodoun practices to summon the Loa (angels or spirits, messengers to the deity).

www.mrbillsadventureland.com
Does the phrase "cabrit sans cor" mean anything to you?
 
2013-11-13 01:05:47 AM

Soon Right Away: Lsherm: I wonder if the author is too young to know the background of Paul Simon's Graceland, and what he would think of it.  I can't think of anyone who thought it was exploitative at the time.  It was an appreciation.

It was called exploitative at the time by some. There's a documentary I've seen with footage of him getting shouted at by people for not only not adhering to the boycott of South Africa, but for exploiting black musicians and African music in general (a white guy shouting it) as well. To which he responds that the musicians themselves have no problem with it, does that kid know better than the musicians themselves, and that he wants the States to appreciate African music and these musicians in particular like he does. I think it's called 'Under African Skies', the documentary.


I'll watch it!  However, that came out in 2012.  We were a little more isolated in the 80's.  I actually thought the world showed up for Simon's Concert in the Park in the 90's, and I was genuinely surprised there were that many people who wanted to see Paul Simon in the 1990's.  Shows how stupid I was, but also how special it was - because every other motherfarker there had the same thought.
 
2013-11-13 01:09:56 AM

ilikeracecars: If you can't explain to me why something is racist in one paragraph, then you've lost me.

For example, one famous white chick dressed up as some less famous black chick from a netflix show. She darkened her skin, which some do, and some do not, consider racist. One author made a very good point that when a black person dresses up as say, superman, they don't feel the need to go white face.

My point is made, whether you agree or not, in one paragraph.

/exhausted. did i use the right slash?


photo.animepunch.org

Is the author Haitian? No? Oh then he can STFU.
 
2013-11-13 01:23:20 AM
FTA: "This demonstrates that peoples' stereotypes and assumptions operate independent of the appropriators' own knowledge, however deep, of the culture they're taking from. In this case, that knowledge is substantial. The band has a longstanding relationship with Haiti, starting with member Régine Chassagne's ancestry (her parents fled the nation during the Duvalier horrors). They have been been dedicated supporters of partners in health which works to eradicate disease in Haiti. As Darville points out, though, audiences generally lack this context, and the onus is on the artist to recognize that fact."

This is the part of the article where the author outs himself as a retard struggling vainly to find a problem with something praised. He later tries to tie it to Miley Cyrus twerking, perhaps to draw hits, and leaves the impression that Haitians should be cut entirely out of popular culture.
 
2013-11-13 01:30:23 AM

Surool: Foxxinnia: The Atlantic is slowly turning into Slate isn't it?

Well, that's a shame.

That's because Slate became HuffPo, and HuffPo is turning into the gif minefield that is Buzzfeed. Buzzfeed is at the bottom, so not sure if they can innovate enough to sink lower.


Upworthy?

I guess I don't see how incorporating music that you like into your sound is exploiting the people who made the music you like (unless you're violating a copyright or something). Or are we going to stop doing rock and roll because it's unfair to the victims of the 1927 flood?
 
2013-11-13 01:36:49 AM
I'm gonna guess that the Arcade Fire saw some Haitian stuff and thought "hey, that's cool, let's do some marketing stuff based on this" without fully considering the possible implications. End of story.
 
2013-11-13 01:53:52 AM

Robert1966: Upworthy?


Upworthy is just another level of retardation. It started very good with the mission to showcase positive news in a world ruled by fear and horror.

Then it turned into another faux social platform with people submitting whatever crappy analysis for a cause they can find.

What I hate the most is that simpletons consume that shiat like crazy and pass it along like it's true. Someone made a post about we using the WRONG world map, emphasis theirs, and it turns out he didn't know what Mercator projection was and assigned an imperialist bias to the whole thing because Africa was made to look smaller so Westerners thought they were superior and Africans felt they were worthless...

Yeah, because what imperialism wanted is make Greenland look larger than United States and Europe...

i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-13 01:57:45 AM
Uh, one of the band members in Arcade Fire is a Haitian chick. Just sayin...
 
2013-11-13 02:18:44 AM
Um.  "Hiding under the veil?"

It's all over the veil.  There is no veil.  Nothing's veiled.

The album references Haitian art, music, and stereotypes.  Apparently "artist wants to work with these topics" is outweighed by "artist can't use images to sell things."

At least, according to assholes.
 
2013-11-13 02:22:32 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Uh, one of the band members in Arcade Fire is a Haitian chick. Just sayin...


Doesn't matter. Facts don't real, only feels.
 
2013-11-13 02:31:57 AM
Let's see what actual Haitians think about this article...

http://twitter.com/HaitiBiz/status/400313450988978176


It short, "It's dumb."
 
2013-11-13 02:41:38 AM
FTA: "...but so much of racism's evil occurs in the space between conscious choices, the space occupied by assumptions."

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. Active racism, the kind that makes history (not the topic of some fluff piece), is where the real evil lies. Somebody who looks at a member of another race and thinks, "This person is different and therefore inferior to me" and then acts on that, is much more evil than someone who may be ignorant about the cultural roots of voodoo.
 
2013-11-13 03:00:45 AM

rocky_howard: What I hate the most is that simpletons consume that shiat like crazy and pass it along like it's true. Someone made a post about we using the WRONG world map, emphasis theirs, and it turns out he didn't know what Mercator projection was and assigned an imperialist bias to the whole thing because Africa was made to look smaller so Westerners thought they were superior and Africans felt they were worthless...

Yeah, because what imperialism wanted is make Greenland look larger than United States and Europe...

i.imgur.com


Obligatory West Wing scene for when social equality in cartography is mentioned
/Ah, big block of cheese day
 
2013-11-13 04:03:37 AM
1. Some guy writes something
2. ???
3. Outrage
 
2013-11-13 04:13:32 AM
fc04.deviantart.net
 
2013-11-13 07:04:56 AM
Is this as bad as when someone said lorde is racist? Not reading it preemptively.
 
2013-11-13 07:31:15 AM

Fano: FTA: "This demonstrates that peoples' stereotypes and assumptions operate independent of the appropriators' own knowledge, however deep, of the culture they're taking from. In this case, that knowledge is substantial. The band has a longstanding relationship with Haiti, starting with member Régine Chassagne's ancestry (her parents fled the nation during the Duvalier horrors). They have been been dedicated supporters of partners in health which works to eradicate disease in Haiti. As Darville points out, though, audiences generally lack this context, and the onus is on the artist to recognize that fact."

This is the part of the article where the author outs himself as a retard struggling vainly to find a problem with something praised. He later tries to tie it to Miley Cyrus twerking, perhaps to draw hits, and leaves the impression that Haitians should be cut entirely out of popular culture.


Of course. People like this want cultures like Haitian culture to be preserved like they are in a museum or a zoo so that they can get big fat social justice boners over them and write articles like this about them on their behalf. If these people change their culture in some way the social justice warrior doesn't like, they will immediately jump in and try to make it white people's fault somehow and a horrible thing that would never happen if evil, evil white people weren't corrupting their culture. They don't like it when cultures trade ideas/music/pretty much anything around because they view it as corruption, even though this is how humans have been interacting ever since we started covering our junk and making tools. I think they hate 'appropriation' because the more other cultures are demystified, the more everyone learns about them, the harder it is for them to view them as different, and for some reason they want other cultures to be separate and alien things that other people within their own (american or european culture) don't understand but they do. Deep down THEY want to be the arbitrators of what other people can do.

It is true white people did plenty of shiatty things. And colonization sucked. But fetishizing people who have a lack of clean or running water and living a hut with no internet access or dental care (and I mean this in general, not Haiti specifically) is not somehow making things better. Wanting them to stay forever the same and forever isolated so you can venerate them from a distance is creepy.

I seriously think these people have some weird psychological issue going on.
 
2013-11-13 09:28:59 AM
Arcade Fire is a terrible sounding band.....that is all
 
2013-11-13 09:46:03 AM

XMark: I'm gonna guess that the Arcade Fire saw some Haitian stuff and thought "hey, that's cool, let's do some marketing stuff based on this" without fully considering the possible implications. End of story.


from wiki


Régine Chassagne was born in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, and grew up in St-Lambert, a suburb south of Montreal.Her parents, who were of Haitian origin, emigrated from Haiti during the dictatorship of François Duvalier, which is alluded to in the Arcade Fire song "Haiti", in which she sings, Mes cousins jamais nés hantent les nuits de Duvalier ("My unborn cousins haunt Duvalier's nights"). The line is in reference to the relatives who were killed during the Jérémie Vespers massacre.

or, y'know, the thing you said

END OF STORY
 
2013-11-13 09:52:32 AM
Pffft. I wasn't listening to AF before it was cool. You have probably never heard of me.
 
2013-11-13 10:49:21 AM
I've never understood why people have a problem with artists taking inspiration from other cultures.
 
2013-11-13 11:33:09 AM
I looked the cat up, and he is a white cultural Anthropologist from DAvidson College.

0.academia-photos.com

In South America nothing says douchebag like a foreigner wearing a hat made by the indigenous peoples. And sorry Canada you did not invent the toque.

He wrote some horrifically bad articles about Bolivia that I just lost ten minutes of my life reading which came off as horribly racist.  A white guy telling other people that his interpretations of different cultures are more correct than theirs.

I was dating a phd candidate at UF and had to hang out with these guys because of her and they always looked at me as the interloper because I was shagging the one hot girl in their department.  I was not in school and had a well paying job, so I was not their intellectual equal.

One jagoff tells me one day that although I am dating a Bolivian, that her and I will never see eye to eye because I was American and until I experienced South American culture first hand, I should not become to vested in the relationship.

He had just come back from a six week hostel hopping trek across South American and he felt he was now in tune with the locals and he actually said "once you understand the peasant existence in Latin America, you can truly relate."  I was floored.  My girl who normally preferred me not to argue with her colleagues nodded at me.

I let him have it in Spanish, reached into my wallet, pulled out my Colombian and Panamian IDs and my Colombian draft card and said I had lived and worked among the "peasants" and did not think my other fellow Latin Americans would appreciate being called peasants nor his interpretation of their human condition.

The guys mouth fell open.  He was totally surprised that a light skinned guy with the surname of Taylor could speak spanish and had lived in South America.

He looked like the douche in the article.
 
2013-11-13 12:15:08 PM

theflatline: I looked the cat up, and he is a white cultural Anthropologist from DAvidson College.

[0.academia-photos.com image 200x200]

In South America nothing says douchebag like a foreigner wearing a hat made by the indigenous peoples. And sorry Canada you did not invent the toque.

He wrote some horrifically bad articles about Bolivia that I just lost ten minutes of my life reading which came off as horribly racist.  A white guy telling other people that his interpretations of different cultures are more correct than theirs.

I was dating a phd candidate at UF and had to hang out with these guys because of her and they always looked at me as the interloper because I was shagging the one hot girl in their department.  I was not in school and had a well paying job, so I was not their intellectual equal.

One jagoff tells me one day that although I am dating a Bolivian, that her and I will never see eye to eye because I was American and until I experienced South American culture first hand, I should not become to vested in the relationship.

He had just come back from a six week hostel hopping trek across South American and he felt he was now in tune with the locals and he actually said "once you understand the peasant existence in Latin America, you can truly relate."  I was floored.  My girl who normally preferred me not to argue with her colleagues nodded at me.

I let him have it in Spanish, reached into my wallet, pulled out my Colombian and Panamian IDs and my Colombian draft card and said I had lived and worked among the "peasants" and did not think my other fellow Latin Americans would appreciate being called peasants nor his interpretation of their human condition.

The guys mouth fell open.  He was totally surprised that a light skinned guy with the surname of Taylor could speak spanish and had lived in South America.

He looked like the douche in the article.


Es un historia genial, cuñao.
 
2013-11-13 12:29:25 PM

thecpt: Is this as bad as when someone said lorde is racist? Not reading it preemptively.


It is EXACTLY that stupid.

FedExPope: FTA: "...but so much of racism's evil occurs in the space between conscious choices, the space occupied by assumptions."

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. Active racism, the kind that makes history (not the topic of some fluff piece), is where the real evil lies. Somebody who looks at a member of another race and thinks, "This person is different and therefore inferior to me" and then acts on that, is much more evil than someone who may be ignorant about the cultural roots of voodoo.


Isn't the Author racist for saying basically that white people aren't allowed to be influenced by Haitian art?
 
2013-11-13 01:21:15 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: A white guy telling other people that his interpretations of different cultures are more correct than theirs.


What's his fark login name?
 
2013-11-13 01:23:09 PM

theflatline: I looked the cat up, and he is a white cultural Anthropologist from DAvidson College.



In South America nothing says douchebag like a foreigner wearing a hat made by the indigenous peoples. And sorry Canada you did not invent the toque.

He wrote some horrifically bad articles about Bolivia that I just lost ten minutes of my life reading which came off as horribly racist.  A white guy telling other people that his interpretations of different cultures are more correct than theirs.

I was dating a phd candidate at UF and had to hang out with these guys because of her and they always looked at me as the interloper because I was shagging the one hot girl in their department.  I was not in school and had a well paying job, so I was not their intellectual equal.

One jagoff tells me one day that although I am dating a Bolivian, that her and I will never see eye to eye because I was American and until I experienced South American culture first hand, I should not become to vested in the relationship.

He had just come back from a six week hostel hopping trek across South American and he felt he was now in tune with the locals and he actually said "once you understand the peasant existence in Latin America, you can truly relate."  I was floored.  My girl who normally preferred me not to argue with her colleagues nodded at me.

I let him have it in Spanish, reached into my wallet, pulled out my Colombian and Panamian IDs and my Colombian draft card and said I had lived and worked among the "peasants" and did not think my other fellow Latin Americans would appreciate being called peasants nor his interpretation of their human condition.

The guys mouth fell open.  He was totally surprised that a light skinned guy with the surname of Taylor could speak spanish and had lived in South America.

He looked like the douche in the article.


Damn, dude, even I want you to bed me after that. Nice work!
 
2013-11-13 01:56:06 PM

theflatline: I looked the cat up, and he is a white cultural Anthropologist from DAvidson College.



In South America nothing says douchebag like a foreigner wearing a hat made by the indigenous peoples. And sorry Canada you did not invent the toque.

He wrote some horrifically bad articles about Bolivia that I just lost ten minutes of my life reading which came off as horribly racist.  A white guy telling other people that his interpretations of different cultures are more correct than theirs.

I was dating a phd candidate at UF and had to hang out with these guys because of her and they always looked at me as the interloper because I was shagging the one hot girl in their department.  I was not in school and had a well paying job, so I was not their intellectual equal.

One jagoff tells me one day that although I am dating a Bolivian, that her and I will never see eye to eye because I was American and until I experienced South American culture first hand, I should not become to vested in the relationship.

He had just come back from a six week hostel hopping trek across South American and he felt he was now in tune with the locals and he actually said "once you understand the peasant existence in Latin America, you can truly relate."  I was floored.  My girl who normally preferred me not to argue with her colleagues nodded at me.

I let him have it in Spanish, reached into my wallet, pulled out my Colombian and Panamian IDs and my Colombian draft card and said I had lived and worked among the "peasants" and did not think my other fellow Latin Americans would appreciate being called peasants nor his interpretation of their human condition.

The guys mouth fell open.  He was totally surprised that a light skinned guy with the surname of Taylor could speak spanish and had lived in South America.

He looked like the douche in the article.


I'm pretty sure his children are now your slaves, you owned him so totally.
 
2013-11-13 02:00:40 PM

mooseyfate: FTFA:  It turns out those designs were inspired by Haitian veve graffiti, used in syncretistic Vodoun practices to summon the Loa (angels or spirits, messengers to the deity).

[www.mrbillsadventureland.com image 175x227]
Does the phrase "cabrit sans cor" mean anything to you?


You can hang out on my lawn anytime.
 
2013-11-13 03:07:58 PM

caddisfly: mooseyfate: FTFA:  It turns out those designs were inspired by Haitian veve graffiti, used in syncretistic Vodoun practices to summon the Loa (angels or spirits, messengers to the deity).

[www.mrbillsadventureland.com image 175x227]
Does the phrase "cabrit sans cor" mean anything to you?

You can hang out on my lawn anytime.


I was wondering how long it would be before someone responded to that. *respect knuckles* That's what's up.
 
2013-11-13 04:11:17 PM
New album is really good. Better than the Suburbs.

That is all.
 
2013-11-13 04:30:36 PM
I think your average Hatian has more important things to worry about than "Is this racist?" Things like "Is this the first sign of cholera?", or "Will the plywood shack I live in withstand a breezy day?".
/Does Hati even have Internet access?
 
2013-11-13 07:48:53 PM
They have two Haitian guys in their band now. Terrific additions. I saw them on Halloween. Great show. They have no intention of being bigoted. Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
2013-11-14 12:26:16 AM
some people, critics among them, enjoy reflected glory

/even if the band sucks
 
Displayed 50 of 50 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report