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(University of Cambridge)   Just as Democrats start their think-of-the-children emotional-appeal press on universal pre-K, out comes word that beginning the snowflaking process early is so profoundly stupid that only the US school-industrial complex could've dreamed it up   (cam.ac.uk) divider line 288
    More: Interesting, pre, emotional well-being, Department for Education, mental functions, frontal cortex, numeracy, longitudinal study  
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11678 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2013 at 1:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-12 10:29:55 AM  
Huh.  And yet U.S. research on the subject (http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Pre-kindergarten/P re -Kindergarten/Pre-kindergarten-What-the-research-shows.html) shows significant benefits to it.  Oklahoma has the highest-funded and most-universally-accessible Pre-K program, and has seen significant gains as a result (http://www.crocus.georgetown.edu/reports/CROCUSworkingpaper2.pdf).

Here's a great site for more reading:
http://hechingerreport.org/content/notable-research-on-pre-kindergar te n-education-2_2277/
 
2013-11-12 10:37:27 AM  
Subby, could you not fit more butthurt in the headline?
 
2013-11-12 10:47:16 AM  
There's some good, quality derp in the comments on that article.
 
2013-11-12 11:28:55 AM  
Formal schooling, not any schooling. Basically, trying to get the kids to learn multiplication tables at 4 might not be good for them, but socializing, play, and sharing lessons in a structured environment still seems beneficial.
 
2013-11-12 12:33:06 PM  
This has nothing to do with education.  It has everything to do with taking snowflakes off of people's hands long enough for them to go work the morning shift at Wal Mart.
 
2013-11-12 12:39:26 PM  
www.bigfishink.com
 
2013-11-12 12:49:03 PM  
subby, were you hugged as a child?
 
2013-11-12 12:58:10 PM  
All kids need is to be raised in a bilingual home.

If raised with both as his (pardon the pun) fathers and mothers tongue, that kid will be pretty set for life.
 
2013-11-12 12:58:45 PM  

cman: All kids need is to be raised in a bilingual home as preparations for grammar school.

If raised with both as his (pardon the pun) fathers and mothers tongue, that kid will be pretty set for life.


Whoops. Left out an important part. Fixt.
 
2013-11-12 01:03:20 PM  
Waiting until age seven to learn to read seems like way too late for me. But I have a cultural bias since I learned spanish first and that is easier to read than english. IDK what the technical definition is between formal teaching and play teaching... but my parents used flash cards and they would throw them over the floor and asked me to find the ones with words I had learned. Then they taught me how to add and subtract with little green army men. I wouldn't call that formal education... but I sure learned a bunch of stuff playing those games.
 
2013-11-12 01:17:37 PM  
Subby must getting ready for the Tuesday night tea party meet up at golden corral and then bingo
 
2013-11-12 01:53:06 PM  
Is our children learning?
 
2013-11-12 01:53:28 PM  
Really?  The "school industrial complex?"

Jesus Christ.
 
2013-11-12 01:54:37 PM  
Won't somebody think of the teachers?!
 
2013-11-12 01:58:28 PM  

doyner: This has nothing to do with education.  It has everything to do with taking snowflakes off of people's hands long enough for them to go work the morning shift at Wal Mart.


This, unfortunately
 
2013-11-12 01:58:45 PM  
This report advocates 'informal play time' and even 'toy libraries' over formalized educations for very young people.  Which has about fark all to do with pre-k.  Which is mostly play.


Stupid shiat here today.  Really stupid shiat.
 
2013-11-12 01:58:46 PM  

Mentat: subby, were you hugged as a child?


No, but he was given a participation medal
 
2013-11-12 01:59:15 PM  
FTA

There are several strands of evidence which all point towards the importance of play in young children's development, and the value of an extended period of playful learning before the start of formal schooling. These arise from anthropological, psychological, neuroscientific and educational studies.  Anthropological studies of children's play in extant hunter-gatherer societies, and evolutionary psychology studies of play in the young of other mammalian species, have identified play as an adaptation which evolved in early human social groups. It enabled humans to become powerful learners and problem-solvers. Neuroscientific studies have shown that playful activity leads to synaptic growth, particularly in the frontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for all the uniquely human higher mental functions. - See more at:

Huh, I wonder if any of that could happen in some sort of room, perhaps with kids divided into groups, maybe with an adult that understands child development guiding that process.

The kids that benefit the most from pre-shchool are those whose parents are low educated and poor.

Giving kids better education = teh special snowflakes apparently.
 
2013-11-12 02:00:07 PM  
I supposedly knew my multiplication tables by age 2, so I don't see what the big deal is.

//no, I don't have any friends, why do you ask?
//kidding
//sorta
 
2013-11-12 02:00:19 PM  
As long as the Dims run education we'll have dim education
 
2013-11-12 02:00:32 PM  
Sooooo I guess we're going to ignore the parts of that study where it says that play-based pre-school is good for children?
 
2013-11-12 02:01:25 PM  
Looking over the data reillan posted, in places where income equality is better, later starting ages improve performance, and in places where they're less equal, it has a negative impact.
 
2013-11-12 02:01:57 PM  

Necronic: Sooooo I guess we're going to ignore the parts of that study where it says that play-based pre-school is good for children?


reading is for Democrats.
 
2013-11-12 02:02:30 PM  
You had to go directly to politics, didn't you subby?

\fark you with your Charter School cross
 
2013-11-12 02:02:32 PM  

Chummer45: Really?  The "school industrial complex?"

Jesus Christ.


How is that not incorrect?  Defund the schools so all the dummies can go work in factories.  Nevermind that industrial jobs don't exist anymore, but maybe with the influx of dummies, wages will go down, the rich get richer... it's a perfect plan because the dummies will keep voting the same people in.
 
2013-11-12 02:02:35 PM  

reillan: Huh.  And yet U.S. research on the subject (http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Pre-kindergarten/P re -Kindergarten/Pre-kindergarten-What-the-research-shows.html) shows significant benefits to it.  Oklahoma has the highest-funded and most-universally-accessible Pre-K program, and has seen significant gains as a result (http://www.crocus.georgetown.edu/reports/CROCUSworkingpaper2.pdf).

Here's a great site for more reading:
http://hechingerreport.org/content/notable-research-on-pre-kindergar te n-education-2_2277/


Don't listen to him power conservatives. The best thing you can do is home school your kids to get the proper amount science in their lives. I look forward to them serving fries to my engineer daughter.
 
2013-11-12 02:03:17 PM  
That headline contains so much butthurt that I feel compelled to go buy some stock in Pfizer.
 
2013-11-12 02:04:39 PM  
Just as Democrats start their think-of-the-children emotional-appeal press on universal pre-K, out comes word that beginning the snowflaking process early is so profoundly stupid that only the US school-industrial complex could've dreamed it up

Uh, subby, given the giant disconnect between your headline and what the article actually said, I think you could have benefited from a pre-K program.Actually, I think you could still benefit from one.
 
2013-11-12 02:05:16 PM  

Madbassist1: doyner: This has nothing to do with education.  It has everything to do with taking snowflakes off of people's hands long enough for them to go work the morning shift at Wal Mart.

This, unfortunately


/whynotboth.jog

Current research, as noted already in the thread, strongly suggests that pre-school has enormous effects on people's lives, which persist for many many years. Planet Money did a segment on it a while ago, and IIRC the GDP gains and crime reduction would totally dwarf any increased cost.

Contrary to subby's dishonest headline, universal pre-k is an entirely logical goal to achieve. But then again, a nation which is better educated and emotionally stable does put the GOP at a real disadvantage in the future, so I can see why his knee would jerk up and strike his lie gland when it's brought up.
 
2013-11-12 02:06:35 PM  
Funding education is great and all, but poverty is the biggest impediment to learning. However, doing anything about that is SOCIALISM!!!11!!!
 
2013-11-12 02:06:48 PM  
We need to invest in education.

And by "invest in education" we mean give more money to the teacher unions".
 
2013-11-12 02:06:54 PM  

Madbassist1: doyner: This has nothing to do with education.  It has everything to do with taking snowflakes off of people's hands long enough for them to go work the morning shift at Wal Mart.

This, unfortunately


Thirded. Even w/ maternity leave, motherhood is a huge liability on upper level career trajectories (there are always exceptions). The women on the Supreme Court, none of them are mothers. That's not a coincidence.
 
2013-11-12 02:06:58 PM  
needs a longer and more painfully forced headline
 
2013-11-12 02:07:56 PM  

Mentat: subby, were you hugged as a child?


Probably not, the same can be said for every farker that refers to kids as "snowflakes".
 
2013-11-12 02:08:04 PM  
Yes, let's continue with the self-inflicted stunting of early childhood learning. Everyone knows we just need more Jesus in our hearts to get back to being #1 in literacy, math, and science!
 
2013-11-12 02:09:03 PM  

trailerpimp: As long as the Dims run education we'll have dim education


I couldn't create a better stereotype.
 
2013-11-12 02:10:03 PM  
Republicans lashing out against preschool failures makes no sense, seeing as it describes our last Republican president.  Zing.
/Is this how the politics tab works?
 
2013-11-12 02:10:46 PM  

reillan: Huh.  And yet U.S. research on the subject (http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Pre-kindergarten/P re -Kindergarten/Pre-kindergarten-What-the-research-shows.html) shows significant benefits to it.  Oklahoma has the highest-funded and most-universally-accessible Pre-K program, and has seen significant gains as a result (http://www.crocus.georgetown.edu/reports/CROCUSworkingpaper2.pdf).

Here's a great site for more reading:
http://hechingerreport.org/content/notable-research-on-pre-kindergar te n-education-2_2277/


yeah.  i remember in college, i took a course on cognitive science and we spent quite a bit of time on child brain development.  the research i read was pretty universal, you should start formal education at a young age, and in fact, starting too late could be detrimental.

of course, that was looking at the statistics with much stricter control of variables.  here, it looks like some guy said, this other country has better school kids then us, and they start later.  therefore, starting later must be the cause (not any of the billion other variables that likely take much more control over the issue) (also, i dnrtfa closely, because of my bias of knowing everything, and this article did not align with my supreme knowledge, so it really did not need to be seriously attended to)
 
TWX
2013-11-12 02:11:26 PM  

Chummer45: Really?  The "school industrial complex?"

Jesus Christ.


Yeah, people actually believe this...

If one looks at state budgets, education is typically the single largest line-item, and often comes in a high as 60% of the state's budget, taking a majority of funds. States and school districts are desperate to find ways to reduce this cost, but they pretty much always end up coming back around to traditional methods and their costs as nothing has proven more effective than having a favorable ratio of teachers or other classroom-based adults to students, and identifying young children that are most at-risk to end up running afoul of the law to attempt to steer them in different directions before their courses are inevitable.

It costs far less to bring young children into pre-K programs for a couple of years before Kindergarten age than it does to imprison them as adults or teenagers for crimes they commit. Many states base their projected prison bed count on the dropout rate, and those numbers correlate entirely far too well. It also reduces the number of victims of crime and generally improves quality of life.
 
2013-11-12 02:11:40 PM  

cman: All kids need is to be raised in a bilingual home.



This is why I divorced my wife and took my kids to live with Salma Hayek & Eva Green.

/forgot the kids, tho
 
2013-11-12 02:11:44 PM  
Whatever happened to parents doing the parenting and having kids' friends over for playdates for socialization?
 
2013-11-12 02:12:35 PM  
I'm hiring a personal womanservant, so there's that.....
 
2013-11-12 02:14:43 PM  

Chummer45: Really?  The "school industrial complex?"

Jesus Christ.


Nope.  Jesus Christ is part of the "Christian-Religious Complex"
 
2013-11-12 02:15:55 PM  
He told that teachin' lady they only three letters he needs to know are U, S and A.

cache2.allpostersimages.com
 
2013-11-12 02:18:15 PM  
Universal Pre-k is a poor idea, regardless of whether research supports it or not. Even if we assume that students would all be better off, we are having significant challenges maintaining a full school year in these parts as it is. We've pretty much cut K-12 to the bone. Adding another year is not a sustainable solution. How about we figure out a way to fully fund what is already on the books first?
 
2013-11-12 02:18:39 PM  
There are skills that kids need to develop before starting a modern kindergarten. I'm not sure this is really in dispute anymore. It might even be true that the home is a better environment for learning these skills than pre-K is, as these research suggests.

But this leaves a question open. Even if the home is a better learning environment for pre-K skills, a lot of kids in that environment still aren't learning them in time for kindergarten. This, much like the fact that these skills exist and are needed, is not in dispute: in fact, the research showing pre-K's benefits could not produce the results that it did if this fact were not true. What should be done about this problem?
 
2013-11-12 02:20:57 PM  

Kit Fister: Whatever happened to parents doing the parenting and having kids' friends over for playdates for socialization?


The more time kids spend in the company of their parents, the more risk we run that they will pick up unauthorized political or religious beliefs.  Best to get them into the system as soon as possible.
 
2013-11-12 02:20:58 PM  

TWX: Yeah, people actually believe this...

If one looks at state budgets, education is typically the single largest line-item, and often comes in a high as 60% of the state's budget, taking a majority of funds.


Unfortunately, education budgets are now being outstripped by corrections budgets.  No kidding.

That said, only a complete wanker would say PreK would not help children.  I used to teach elementary school, and the number of parents who want no part of teaching their kid ... anything is astounding.  We had kids come in at late 3/early 4 for testing and have no idea what a book was.  No number/letter recognition, nothing.
 
2013-11-12 02:21:08 PM  

Blues_X: Subby, could you not fit more butthurt in the headline?


If anyone knows butthurt and the educational system, it's the English.
 
2013-11-12 02:21:35 PM  
What universal pre-k does is:

1) One extra year free daycare - saving families $$$$
2) Helps poor children who weren't in formal/good day care programs get caught up to their peers

I went to public school in a poor area. My Mom was absolutely shocked that many of my peers didn't know their ABCs, counting to 10, and a few other words before starting Kindergarten. What where they doing the whole time?

Ideally, we would have universal/heavily subsided daycare for everyone, especially the poorest among us. It does wonders for kids at the lowest level and we would see much less violence in our society moving forward.
 
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