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(Huffington Post)   Old news: 'Stand your ground' defense. New news: 'Storm the castle' doctrine   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Bethany Arceneaux, CBS Boston, Boston Police Department, kidnappings, missing man  
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17315 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2013 at 1:35 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-11-12 12:22:30 PM  
9 votes:
annanimmity.com
2013-11-12 02:19:33 PM  
5 votes:
Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...


Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.
2013-11-12 01:44:44 PM  
5 votes:
And not single Fark was given that day for the deceased.
2013-11-12 01:44:19 PM  
5 votes:

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?
2013-11-12 01:39:32 PM  
5 votes:
Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.
2013-11-12 12:41:47 PM  
5 votes:
Sounds justified to me. She was being stabbed. Lethal force was required.
2013-11-12 02:04:13 PM  
4 votes:

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


You: use of firearms required in all cases ranging from jaywalking to shoplifting.
Your imagined adversaries: we're coming to your house to take your guns while shouting OBAMA AKBAR.

The rest of us use reason and logic.
2013-11-12 01:57:54 PM  
4 votes:
Ryan and Marcus Areceneaux? He messed with a Cajun woman who had brothers, uncles and cousins. That's suicide, that is.
2013-11-12 01:55:12 PM  
4 votes:
if they had told the cops then girl would have been shot too
2013-11-12 01:45:47 PM  
4 votes:
Hell, I'd be okay with this even if the victim wasn't being stabbed.
2013-11-12 01:38:04 PM  
4 votes:
Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...
2013-11-12 03:26:31 PM  
3 votes:

Whiskey Dickens: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

LET'S CELEBRATE!  Guns for everybody!  Gun for your gun on top of a gun, with a side order of gunslaw!  

This is a once-in-a-decade scenario, doesn't exactly justify an average of nearly 1 gun for every person in your country.


90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.
Why do you want 800K people to get mugged, raped, or murdered every year?

On the other hand, there were ~9K gun murders and ~18K suicides IIRC.
Since gun suicide is more likely to succeed than other forms of suicide, banning guns might prevent say half (I admit that that number is pulled out of my ass).
Of the murders, a little less than 6K were gang-related and 3K weren't.  So assuming that all the gang-related murders would stay murders (might be knife murders though), and that all the non-gang murders went away (won't happen), we could prevent 3K murders.

So if we were able to perfectly eliminate guns (WON'T happen without creepy dystopian state, shredding the 4th amendment even more than we have, and probably a civil war), we could prevent 12K deaths/year, and in exchange, we'd get an additional 800K violent crimes or about an extra 2.5% of the US population every year.  And some of THOSE would be murders.

/Mind you, I admit that I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but
2013-11-12 02:23:35 PM  
3 votes:

Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.


This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.
2013-11-12 02:18:53 PM  
3 votes:

ZeroCorpse: ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.

Yes. I know he didn't have a gun. But I like f♥cking with you types anyway.


You do realize that deliberately being stupid still makes you stupid, right?
2013-11-12 02:07:06 PM  
3 votes:
This is what a justified homicide looks like.
2013-11-12 01:45:04 PM  
3 votes:
There are two opposing things that stand out in this story.
1.  Why didn't the cops try harder to find this woman?  Is it because she's not a hot young white chick?  (Cue every Fark thread that ever pointed that out.)  It didn't take very long for the family to organize a posse that ended the crisis pretty much instantly.
2.  I cannot believe that there are no charges filed considering that the vigilante mob was a bunch of non-white people.  This may be the first time in history that justice actually worked out.
2013-11-12 06:59:36 PM  
2 votes:
Tired of waiting for "LIAR!" guy.

From the CDC report, commissioned by President Obama in the wake of numerous shootings: "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year..."

It's on page 15, last paragraph before the footnotes, under "Defensive Use of Guns." Direct quote. I am literally looking at it right now.

This report and its contents in this regard have been acknowledged by such right-wing publications as Slate, Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and PBS.

It is not a vast conspiracy. Some people are just idiots.
2013-11-12 02:31:03 PM  
2 votes:

Bastard_Lunatic: if they had told the cops then girl would have been shot too


And the dog,
2013-11-12 01:47:46 PM  
2 votes:

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.
2013-11-12 01:45:11 PM  
2 votes:

nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.


I think that whoever gave the tip to the family knew that the cops would have most likely done jack and shiat with it. NOLA cops are pretty useless from what I've seen especially since they bailed on the search after the first night.
2013-11-12 01:38:07 PM  
2 votes:
I'd storm the castle for her.
2013-11-12 06:30:05 PM  
1 vote:

Witty_Retort: ferretman: Another thread where dems/libs will imply that 'Stand Your Ground' law was involved in the Zimmerman/Martin incident.

Other than changing the jury instructions to make

 THE FACTS MADE it impossible to convict him, it had nothing to do with Zippy's acquittal.

FTFY
2013-11-12 06:08:48 PM  
1 vote:
justtray

Brass tacks:

The fact remains that no, the CDC does NOT say there are 500k+ DGU per year. That was a lie on your part.

This is not true. At all.

I even went so far to provide you a link that explains in detail why those numbers are made up and have no place in reality.

I'll trust the CDC's information over "Professor Propaganda."

Your link did not even provide the numbers you said it did, and I had to find the link myself to the actual report.

You can't link to the report, can you?
2013-11-12 04:43:11 PM  
1 vote:
justtray

Read it.
2013-11-12 04:39:02 PM  
1 vote:
justtray

No, they aren't. And again no, not per the CDC.

Please stop lying. Thanks.


We're all reading one report from the CDC, essentially commissioned by the president.

You're sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "LIARS! LIARS!"

It's a huge conspiracy against you, personally.
2013-11-12 04:18:28 PM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: redmid17: guestguy: Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.

The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Devil's Advocate here: From the article, they state that a tip led the 'family' to know about a vacant house not far from where the car was found.

At that point, the family made a choice to forego waiting for the police and charged off to save the day and yes, they did just that.

Having said that, would we all be singing this same tune if the attacker had slit the girl's throat upon hearing the 4-wheelers coming in?


No, we'd be mourning her loss, as most humans would have done.

You see, the perp had already shown his willingness to hurt/main/kill her by his previous actions and by *kidnapping* her. I seriously doubt anyone that screwed-up would have listened to reason and let her go. She was in danger of being killed the moment he kidnapped her.
2013-11-12 04:11:55 PM  
1 vote:

Mentalpatient87: Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.

He said he made up the numbers. But then, the whole post was pretty much nothing but those numbers and attempted support for them. So, basically what he said was "here's a bunch of shiat you don't need to read because I have nothing to say."


Look at the crime and self defense section. There are a bunch of linked studies. Basically the most conservative estimate and one the VPC endorses says around 100K defensive gun uses a year. The highest I've seen is 2.4 million
2013-11-12 04:09:47 PM  
1 vote:

ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


Where in TFA does it say the kidnapper had a firearm?
2013-11-12 04:09:15 PM  
1 vote:

Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.


http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

CDC says 1.5 Million defensive gun uses.  Most studies say 800K to 2.5 Million.  Mind you, I'd love to see how they're defining "defensive gun uses" (ie: "saying I have a gun" vs. "shooting that mentally ill guy who just pulled a knife").

And of course, there's a difference between DGU's and people using guns defensively.

/And have you SEEN the inner cities? 99% of America is safe, the other 1% is crazy Mad Max.
//I remember hearing that if you removed 4 cities, America had the lowest violent crime rate of any first world country.  I want to say they were Camden, Oakland, Newark, and Chicago, but really don't quote me on that because I'm almost certainly wrong.
2013-11-12 04:06:11 PM  
1 vote:

Publikwerks: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.


It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.
2013-11-12 03:55:13 PM  
1 vote:

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility
2013-11-12 03:54:16 PM  
1 vote:
As someone who is a gun control advocate (whatever that means), I say: good for them.  It looked like the police were royally farking up the search (and probably didn't give a damn anyway), so they saved her life.  That's appropriate firearm usage.
2013-11-12 03:53:57 PM  
1 vote:

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


They were helping out by looking/asking around in one area while the cops were looking/asking around in another from the sounds of it.  That it happened to be the family which stumbled upon the tip doesn't make the police incompetent or lazy in this case.  It does strike me as reckless that the family charged in there themselves instead of notifying the police though.
2013-11-12 03:43:57 PM  
1 vote:
No need for a new doctrine. Just go with "the man needed killing" and we're good.
2013-11-12 03:05:27 PM  
1 vote:

Cyno01: dywed88: Assuming their story is accurate. They were just out there looking and responded to screams, I see no issue with this.

But it should be thoroughly investigated by the police to confirm their story.

Not too thoroughly...

Is there really anyone out there, even the most gungrabbiest gun grabbing authority worshiping passivist whos not ok with the outcome here? No matter what may or may not have actually transpired?


In a perfect world, they could have subdued him without killing him, but this isn't a perfect world.

In a perfect world, I would have liked to have seen him sentenced to life in prison for his crimes rather than get the quick and easy way out.

That said, I totally understand how such things would never occur to someone rushing in to save someone's life and you happen to have a gun on hand.

All of that taken into consideration, I'm okay with the outcome.  Not completely satisfied, but more than happy to take the outcome as it happened.
2013-11-12 02:45:04 PM  
1 vote:

stevetherobot: if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her


If my Aunt had balls...

Fact is that getting a firearm is never difficult for the criminally inclined. The law is setup to hamper those who want to fill out forms and follow the rules.
This guy just happened to like knives and the "He put a knife to my neck countless times" statement seems to back that up.    Maybe that was just his thing so he could make the abuse last longer. Threaten a man with a gun and its five years, threaten them with a knife and you're out before the Judge goes to lunch.

The cops didn't seem to have much interest in holding this guy up before. They stopped woefully short of finding him during this incident.  Which is strange because  He obviously wasn't beyond threatening peoples lives.

If the family didn't find her,They'd be checking trash bins for body parts by now.
2013-11-12 02:31:45 PM  
1 vote:

Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.


He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.
2013-11-12 02:19:26 PM  
1 vote:
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
2013-11-12 02:06:46 PM  
1 vote:

ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


you're right, no way that guy would figure out a way to overpower her and take her away.

Try again.
2013-11-12 02:03:12 PM  
1 vote:

Publikwerks: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.


exactly, which is the nice thing about being able to exercise your rights
2013-11-12 01:47:26 PM  
1 vote:
I didn't know black people could be scared pale
/I kid
2013-11-12 01:45:24 PM  
1 vote:
2013-11-12 01:44:59 PM  
1 vote:

nocturnal001: Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them


The family was out actively canvasing the neighborhood. It's entirely possible that whoever had the tip was unaware of what they knew until the family showed them a picture of the car or girl.

I think this could become one of those "WHERE WERE THE COPS!?" things, but it sounds, from the information so far, like the family and friends just happened to be that much closer.
2013-11-12 01:42:41 PM  
1 vote:
Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:

Done in one, lock the thread.
2013-11-12 01:40:09 PM  
1 vote:

Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...


I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.
 
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