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(Huffington Post)   Old news: 'Stand your ground' defense. New news: 'Storm the castle' doctrine   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 206
    More: Scary, Bethany Arceneaux, CBS Boston, Boston Police Department, kidnappings, missing man  
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17277 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2013 at 1:35 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



206 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-12 12:22:30 PM
annanimmity.com
 
2013-11-12 12:24:07 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: [annanimmity.com image 360x206]


Damn you.
 
2013-11-12 12:41:47 PM
Sounds justified to me. She was being stabbed. Lethal force was required.
 
2013-11-12 01:31:57 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: [annanimmity.com image 360x206]


That's what I came to post.  My work here is done.
 
2013-11-12 01:36:53 PM
guns
 
2013-11-12 01:38:04 PM
Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...
 
2013-11-12 01:38:07 PM
I'd storm the castle for her.
 
2013-11-12 01:38:55 PM
Well, in their defense, they wanted justice not anal probing.
 
2013-11-12 01:39:32 PM
Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.
 
2013-11-12 01:40:09 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...


I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.
 
2013-11-12 01:40:47 PM
www.leftgamerreview.org
 
2013-11-12 01:42:18 PM
Another thread where dems/libs will imply that 'Stand Your Ground' law was involved in the Zimmerman/Martin incident.
 
2013-11-12 01:42:23 PM
Repeat tag busy? Again?
 
2013-11-12 01:42:41 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:


Done in one, lock the thread.
 
2013-11-12 01:42:45 PM
And this is why your "best man" is supposed to be best at arms.  To protect your ass from whoever you stole your bride from.
 
2013-11-12 01:44:17 PM
If they didn't use one of these:
t2.gstatic.com
Then it was not a lawful castle stormin'.

Send the bastards to jail.
 
2013-11-12 01:44:19 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?
 
2013-11-12 01:44:44 PM
And not single Fark was given that day for the deceased.
 
2013-11-12 01:44:44 PM
Have fun with that!
 
2013-11-12 01:44:59 PM

nocturnal001: Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them


The family was out actively canvasing the neighborhood. It's entirely possible that whoever had the tip was unaware of what they knew until the family showed them a picture of the car or girl.

I think this could become one of those "WHERE WERE THE COPS!?" things, but it sounds, from the information so far, like the family and friends just happened to be that much closer.
 
2013-11-12 01:45:04 PM
There are two opposing things that stand out in this story.
1.  Why didn't the cops try harder to find this woman?  Is it because she's not a hot young white chick?  (Cue every Fark thread that ever pointed that out.)  It didn't take very long for the family to organize a posse that ended the crisis pretty much instantly.
2.  I cannot believe that there are no charges filed considering that the vigilante mob was a bunch of non-white people.  This may be the first time in history that justice actually worked out.
 
2013-11-12 01:45:11 PM

nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.


I think that whoever gave the tip to the family knew that the cops would have most likely done jack and shiat with it. NOLA cops are pretty useless from what I've seen especially since they bailed on the search after the first night.
 
2013-11-12 01:45:24 PM
 
2013-11-12 01:45:47 PM
Hell, I'd be okay with this even if the victim wasn't being stabbed.
 
2013-11-12 01:47:26 PM
I didn't know black people could be scared pale
/I kid
 
2013-11-12 01:47:46 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.
 
2013-11-12 01:48:16 PM
I don't have a problem with this specific case, but I'm eagerly awaiting the hordes going full retard and looking at this as a license to kill.
 
2013-11-12 01:48:48 PM
Well.. obviously the kidnapper underestimated the veracity and availability of firearms and four wheelers to the victims family.  Well played by the family.

What do you bet they had a big ole low country boil later that day to celebrate her deliverance.
 
2013-11-12 01:50:29 PM
Assuming their story is accurate. They were just out there looking and responded to screams, I see no issue with this.

But it should be thoroughly investigated by the police to confirm their story.
 
2013-11-12 01:51:28 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: [annanimmity.com image 360x206]


Great minds, etc.
 
2013-11-12 01:53:19 PM

mediablitz: Sounds justified to me. She was being stabbed. Lethal force was required.


She was being stabbed by the guy who had just violently kidnapped her. Fark yeah this was jusitified.
 
2013-11-12 01:53:21 PM

Reverend J: nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.

I think that whoever gave the tip to the family knew that the cops would have most likely done jack and shiat with it. NOLA cops are pretty useless from what I've seen especially since they bailed on the search after the first night.


To my minority friends,

If a loved one is missing or has been hurt by somebody, please use the following description:

White female, blonde, 5'8", would bang
 
2013-11-12 01:55:12 PM
if they had told the cops then girl would have been shot too
 
2013-11-12 01:57:54 PM
Ryan and Marcus Areceneaux? He messed with a Cajun woman who had brothers, uncles and cousins. That's suicide, that is.
 
2013-11-12 02:01:26 PM
Eh, he was stabbing her... I'm A-OK with the use of deadly force when there's a reasonable fear/belief of imminent bodily harm.
 
2013-11-12 02:02:42 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.
 
2013-11-12 02:03:12 PM

Publikwerks: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.


exactly, which is the nice thing about being able to exercise your rights
 
2013-11-12 02:04:09 PM
These folks did the right thing.  I have no problem.
 
2013-11-12 02:04:13 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


You: use of firearms required in all cases ranging from jaywalking to shoplifting.
Your imagined adversaries: we're coming to your house to take your guns while shouting OBAMA AKBAR.

The rest of us use reason and logic.
 
2013-11-12 02:04:24 PM

ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


Yes. I know he didn't have a gun. But I like f♥cking with you types anyway.
 
2013-11-12 02:04:45 PM

rnatalie: I'd storm the castle for her.


Yeah, that picture sure looks a lot better than the one of her in agony covered in blood. Sorta Beyonce looking.

Also, I agree, guns.
 
2013-11-12 02:06:35 PM
There's not really any doubt they had the right guy, so I'm ok with this.
 
2013-11-12 02:06:46 PM

ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


you're right, no way that guy would figure out a way to overpower her and take her away.

Try again.
 
2013-11-12 02:07:06 PM
This is what a justified homicide looks like.
 
2013-11-12 02:09:28 PM

Arnprior Joe: I don't have a problem with this specific case, but I'm eagerly awaiting the hordes going full retard and looking at this as a license to kill.


OH NOES, ANARCHY IN TEH STREETS!
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-12 02:09:52 PM
Done in one.

Well done indeed
 
2013-11-12 02:10:22 PM
Wait, they're all black and they got away w/ it? Man, the criminal justice system in the South has gone soft.

/just kidding
 
2013-11-12 02:10:34 PM
Good luck, I am behind 7 deadbolts!
 
2013-11-12 02:17:24 PM
Good for all involved. Solid work family.

If I faced that same situation, where one of my girls was taken from me, not the cops, not the abductor, not even GOD HIMSELF could stop me from getting them back.
 
2013-11-12 02:17:58 PM
Mark it one for the good guys....I SAID MARK IT ONE OR YOU'RE IN A WORLD OF HURT...
 
2013-11-12 02:18:53 PM

ZeroCorpse: ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.

Yes. I know he didn't have a gun. But I like f♥cking with you types anyway.


You do realize that deliberately being stupid still makes you stupid, right?
 
2013-11-12 02:19:17 PM

rnatalie: I'd storm the castle for her.


That's what I'm saying.
 
2013-11-12 02:19:26 PM
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
 
2013-11-12 02:19:33 PM
Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...


Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.
 
2013-11-12 02:23:35 PM

Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.


This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.
 
2013-11-12 02:23:52 PM

Hobodeluxe: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?


Speaking of crazy persons, if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her and she would most likely be dead now.
 
2013-11-12 02:25:15 PM

durbnpoisn: There are two opposing things that stand out in this story.
1.  Why didn't the cops try harder to find this woman?  Is it because she's not a hot young white chick?  (Cue every Fark thread that ever pointed that out.)  It didn't take very long for the family to organize a posse that ended the crisis pretty much instantly.
2.  I cannot believe that there are no charges filed considering that the vigilante mob was a bunch of non-white people.  This may be the first time in history that justice actually worked out.


She's young, hot, and...oh.
 
2013-11-12 02:26:18 PM

Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.


I'm guessing that in the past she had left him and gone back to him at least once, before this incident occurred. They had a child together, I'm pretty sure she was aware of his abusive nature before that happened.
 
2013-11-12 02:31:03 PM

Bastard_Lunatic: if they had told the cops then girl would have been shot too


And the dog,
 
2013-11-12 02:31:24 PM

Molavian: I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.


By releasing the Kraken?
 
2013-11-12 02:31:45 PM

Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.


He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.
 
2013-11-12 02:33:00 PM

ZeroCorpse: If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


I've yet to see one single story that says he was armed with a firearm.
 
2013-11-12 02:33:40 PM
Hey modmins. Quit drinking for breakfast. This is a repeat
 
2013-11-12 02:34:35 PM

stevetherobot: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

I'm guessing that in the past she had left him and gone back to him at least once, before this incident occurred. They had a child together, I'm pretty sure she was aware of his abusive nature before that happened.


What makes you so sure of this? The kid is 2 years old, and she only got the protective order in June. He could've become abusive after the kid's birth. With no evidence either way, you're sure jumping quickly to the conclusion that she was to blame.
 
2013-11-12 02:35:17 PM

Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.


Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this. You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

/the answer is always C
 
2013-11-12 02:36:49 PM

nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.


All gun rights people are Red Wing fans?  I didn't know all of them even watched hockey.
 
2013-11-12 02:37:13 PM

stevetherobot: Hobodeluxe: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?

Speaking of crazy persons, if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her and she would most likely be dead now.


The article makes it sound like he had previously been investigated a/o convicted of domestic abuse. So he was probably already prohibited from owning a firearm, and he didn't have one. So it sounds like the current system worked just fine in this case.
 
2013-11-12 02:37:49 PM

stevetherobot: Speaking of crazy persons, if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her and she would most likely be dead now.


Wait, how could he NOT have a gun? I've been told laws against gun ownership don't prevent criminals from getting guns. So he should have had one.

Does not compute.

Recalibrating....

Open Carry is good, because it deters people who would commit crimes around you. Except that deterents don't work because criminals don't obey laws.

Registration is bad because then everyone would know who has a gun, and would target them, except Open Carry is good because above.
 
2013-11-12 02:39:02 PM

mediablitz: Sounds justified to me. She was being stabbed. Lethal force was required.


They should have called the police, who would have shown up 2 hours later to collect her body, and shoot the ex-boyfriend themselves.
 
2013-11-12 02:40:54 PM

Vertdang: Good for all involved. Solid work family.

If I faced that same situation, where one of my girls was taken from me, not the cops, not the abductor, not even GOD HIMSELF could stop me from getting them back.


cl.jroo.me
 
2013-11-12 02:42:23 PM
Is this the thread where family members are forced to take action due to incompetent government representatives and we call them monsters for effecting that liberation with a gun?
 
2013-11-12 02:44:50 PM
Or rock the casabah?
 
2013-11-12 02:45:04 PM

stevetherobot: if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her


If my Aunt had balls...

Fact is that getting a firearm is never difficult for the criminally inclined. The law is setup to hamper those who want to fill out forms and follow the rules.
This guy just happened to like knives and the "He put a knife to my neck countless times" statement seems to back that up.    Maybe that was just his thing so he could make the abuse last longer. Threaten a man with a gun and its five years, threaten them with a knife and you're out before the Judge goes to lunch.

The cops didn't seem to have much interest in holding this guy up before. They stopped woefully short of finding him during this incident.  Which is strange because  He obviously wasn't beyond threatening peoples lives.

If the family didn't find her,They'd be checking trash bins for body parts by now.
 
2013-11-12 02:45:40 PM

AngryDragon: Is this the thread where family members are forced to take action due to incompetent government representatives and we call them monsters for effecting that liberation with a gun?


I don't know, why don't you try reading it?
 
2013-11-12 02:46:37 PM

Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.


Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.
 
2013-11-12 02:47:20 PM

Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.


This sounds less like "blame the victim" than "here is a lesson to be learned from these horrible events so that hopefully others will not face such a situation."
 
2013-11-12 02:48:46 PM

brimed03: Repeat tag busy? Again?


Again?

I can't wait until this story breaks on Fark tomorrow. Thursday's version should be spectacular too.
 
2013-11-12 02:51:29 PM

Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.


Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.
 
2013-11-12 02:52:14 PM

Hobodeluxe: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?


Only crazy people use the word "statist."
 
2013-11-12 02:53:42 PM

MythDragon: If they didn't use one of these:
[t2.gstatic.com image 245x205]
Then it was not a lawful castle stormin'.

Send the bastards to jail.


I know, right?! They didn't even burn the house down, salt the earth, OR stick the dude's head on a pike in the front lawn! :-(
 
2013-11-12 02:53:45 PM

Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.

"Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment, and that he felt relieved that "people came out and helped us."


I have yet to find any other abused women in the story, so I am going to have to agree with you here.
 
2013-11-12 02:55:57 PM
macadamnut

Only crazy people use the word "statist."

Well, crazy people and people who study political science. Am I being redundant?
 
2013-11-12 02:56:16 PM

Arnprior Joe: I don't have a problem with this specific case, but I'm eagerly awaiting the hordes going full retard and looking at this as a license to kill.


Jesus could come back, announce a new world of 1,000 years of peace, happiness, and acceptance, and you'd be holding a sign that said "not my god, not my peace"

People like you that just want to shait on every piece of good news that doesn't involve your exact philosophy are what's wrong with the world.
 
2013-11-12 02:56:18 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


LET'S CELEBRATE!  Guns for everybody!  Gun for your gun on top of a gun, with a side order of gunslaw!  

This is a once-in-a-decade scenario, doesn't exactly justify an average of nearly 1 gun for every person in your country.
 
2013-11-12 02:58:28 PM

dywed88: Assuming their story is accurate. They were just out there looking and responded to screams, I see no issue with this.

But it should be thoroughly investigated by the police to confirm their story.


Not too thoroughly...

Is there really anyone out there, even the most gungrabbiest gun grabbing authority worshiping passivist whos not ok with the outcome here? No matter what may or may not have actually transpired?
 
2013-11-12 03:03:32 PM

Doom MD: ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.

you're right, no way that guy would figure out a way to overpower her and take her away.

Try again.


I really enjoy watching you create a strawman, then whimper away. No boogeyman in this thread for you, so you have to create one.

Confirmation bias is most certainly your friend.

I notice all the "they want to take our guns!!!" idiots are in this thread, wishing their paranoia were true.

Meanwhile, gun control advocates like myself see nothing wrong with this situation. I realize that just drives you crazy. Your willful ignorance requires every gun situation be black and white.

In other words: shut up, idiot.
 
2013-11-12 03:04:37 PM

Reverend J: nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.

I think that whoever gave the tip to the family knew that the cops would have most likely done jack and shiat with it. NOLA cops are pretty useless from what I've seen especially since they bailed on the search after the first night.


this happened in lafayette which is a couple hundred miles from new orleans.
 
2013-11-12 03:05:27 PM

Cyno01: dywed88: Assuming their story is accurate. They were just out there looking and responded to screams, I see no issue with this.

But it should be thoroughly investigated by the police to confirm their story.

Not too thoroughly...

Is there really anyone out there, even the most gungrabbiest gun grabbing authority worshiping passivist whos not ok with the outcome here? No matter what may or may not have actually transpired?


In a perfect world, they could have subdued him without killing him, but this isn't a perfect world.

In a perfect world, I would have liked to have seen him sentenced to life in prison for his crimes rather than get the quick and easy way out.

That said, I totally understand how such things would never occur to someone rushing in to save someone's life and you happen to have a gun on hand.

All of that taken into consideration, I'm okay with the outcome.  Not completely satisfied, but more than happy to take the outcome as it happened.
 
2013-11-12 03:05:53 PM

Cyno01: dywed88: Assuming their story is accurate. They were just out there looking and responded to screams, I see no issue with this.

But it should be thoroughly investigated by the police to confirm their story.

Not too thoroughly...

Is there really anyone out there, even the most gungrabbiest gun grabbing authority worshiping passivist whos not ok with the outcome here? No matter what may or may not have actually transpired?


There are several "they want to take our guns!!!" idiot sorely disappointed that no one has found this objectionable.

It totally destroys their strawman. They are actually begging someone to confirm their illusionary views.
 
2013-11-12 03:07:30 PM

Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.


Unless the brother is doing the usual victim blaming. The actual facts that we know of - protective order, arrest, knife-point abduction - say the exact opposite. But hey, going with facts over hearsay only makes sense when you don't have an opportunity to blame a woman, right?
 
2013-11-12 03:14:29 PM
Just a clarification: Anderson Road...that's Duson, not Lafayette. Almost the next Parish. That's like saying something happened in Los Angeles when it actually happened in Hollywood.

/just missed the frog festival this weekend
 
2013-11-12 03:17:04 PM
1.  A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2.  A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3.  A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
 
2013-11-12 03:22:38 PM

Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.

Unless the brother is doing the usual victim blaming. The actual facts that we know of - protective order, arrest, knife-point abduction - say the exact opposite. But hey, going with facts over hearsay only makes sense when you don't have an opportunity to bla ...


Why would the brother even bring that up if it didn't have anything to do with the situation?
 
2013-11-12 03:23:24 PM

Son of Thunder: Again?


She likes kidnapping. Come back and kidnap her again soon! Try the veal.
 
2013-11-12 03:24:58 PM
Done in one, did not read past comment #2.
 
2013-11-12 03:25:14 PM
I have no idea why, but once I read this line:

"A neighborhood resident and another man, along with almost half a dozen members of Arceneaux's family, took off on four-wheelers toward the house. "

Wagner's Flight of the Valkyries started playing in the back of my head.
 
2013-11-12 03:26:31 PM

Whiskey Dickens: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

LET'S CELEBRATE!  Guns for everybody!  Gun for your gun on top of a gun, with a side order of gunslaw!  

This is a once-in-a-decade scenario, doesn't exactly justify an average of nearly 1 gun for every person in your country.


90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.
Why do you want 800K people to get mugged, raped, or murdered every year?

On the other hand, there were ~9K gun murders and ~18K suicides IIRC.
Since gun suicide is more likely to succeed than other forms of suicide, banning guns might prevent say half (I admit that that number is pulled out of my ass).
Of the murders, a little less than 6K were gang-related and 3K weren't.  So assuming that all the gang-related murders would stay murders (might be knife murders though), and that all the non-gang murders went away (won't happen), we could prevent 3K murders.

So if we were able to perfectly eliminate guns (WON'T happen without creepy dystopian state, shredding the 4th amendment even more than we have, and probably a civil war), we could prevent 12K deaths/year, and in exchange, we'd get an additional 800K violent crimes or about an extra 2.5% of the US population every year.  And some of THOSE would be murders.

/Mind you, I admit that I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but
 
2013-11-12 03:34:45 PM

meyerkev: Whiskey Dickens: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

LET'S CELEBRATE!  Guns for everybody!  Gun for your gun on top of a gun, with a side order of gunslaw!  

This is a once-in-a-decade scenario, doesn't exactly justify an average of nearly 1 gun for every person in your country.

90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.
Why do you want 800K people to get mugged, raped, or murdered every year?

On the other hand, there were ~9K gun murders and ~18K suicides IIRC.
Since gun suicide is more likely to succeed than other forms of suicide, banning guns might prevent say half (I admit that that number is pulled out of my ass).
Of the murders, a little less than 6K were gang-related and 3K weren't.  So assuming that all the gang-related murders would stay murders (might be knife murders though), and that all the non-gang murders went away (won't happen), we could prevent 3K murders.

So if we were able to perfectly eliminate guns (WON'T happen without creepy dystopian state, shredding the 4th amendment even more than we have, and probably a civil war), we could prevent 12K deaths/year, and in exchange, we'd get an additional 800K violent crimes or about an extra 2.5% of the US population every year.  And some of THOSE would be murders.

/Mind you, I admit that I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but


You sound like some pinko commie hippy socialist nazi that dun emigratit here from some forren place...
 
2013-11-12 03:35:01 PM

redmid17: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.

Unless the brother is doing the usual victim blaming. The actual facts that we know of - protective order, arrest, knife-point abduction - say the exact opposite. But hey, going with facts over hearsay only makes sense when you don't have an opport ...

Why would the brother even bring that up if it didn't have anything to do with the situation?


Why does it get brought up in every domestic violence situation, even if it doesn't have anything to do with the particular facts? It's the same reason that a woman can get drugged and raped, and some guys will still bring up the "shouldn't have been dressed slutty" trope.
 
2013-11-12 03:37:43 PM

Theaetetus: redmid17: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Luse: Theaetetus: Bethany Arceneaux, 29, was allegedly abducted Wednesday afternoon in Lafayette by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas, also 29, and the father to her 2-year-old son, The Daily Advertiser first reports.
A witness to the abduction, Derrimetrie Robinson, said she saw Arceneaux honking her car horn for help in parking lot as Thomas forced his way into her car and attacked her. When Robinson rushed to the scene, Arceneaux begged the woman to take her son, according to the Advertiser.
Robinson managed to grab the 2-year-old boy during the struggle, as Thomas shoved Arceneaux into his car and sped away, she said.
... Another brother of the victim, Harold Carter, told The Daily Advertiser that women need to know that "getting back together" with abusive men will lead to serious detriment...

Wow, even in a case where a woman is attacked and dragged screaming into a car, someone will still jump up to blame the victim. Extra nice that it's her brother, too.

This is called truth. Getting back together with an abusive person will most likely result in more abuse.
Get off your soapbox.

He could also have talked about how well peanut butter and jelly go together. That's truth too. It's likewise irrelevant to what happened.

Read the article. This was not the first time he has done something like this.

Read the article. There's absolutely nothing there that says she got back together with him after he had done this previously - in fact, she got a protective order, and he was even arrested for violating it. Which means, by assuming the exact opposite:
You are either retarded, a troll, or a retarded troll.

Actually, the brother's statement in and of itself says exactly that.

Unless the brother is doing the usual victim blaming. The actual facts that we know of - protective order, arrest, knife-point abduction - say the exact opposite. But hey, going with facts over hearsay only makes sense when you don't have ...


So you have nothing against the probably insight of someone directly related to the victim at hand. Is that what you're saying?
 
2013-11-12 03:38:17 PM
Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.
 
2013-11-12 03:40:39 PM

Theaetetus: when you don't have an opportunity to blame a woman, right?


I don't know why you guys are even trying to convince Sir Saveabroad. He's not interested in honest discussion, he just wants heathens to oppose so that his armor feels shinier and the Holy Land closer.
 
2013-11-12 03:40:54 PM
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will kill you.


stoptheslavery.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-11-12 03:41:22 PM

justtray: stevetherobot: Speaking of crazy persons, if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her and she would most likely be dead now.

Wait, how could he NOT have a gun? I've been told laws against gun ownership don't prevent criminals from getting guns. So he should have had one.

Does not compute.

Recalibrating....

Open Carry is good, because it deters people who would commit crimes around you. Except that deterents don't work because criminals don't obey laws.

Registration is bad because then everyone would know who has a gun, and would target them, except Open Carry is good because above.


I'm sorry to hear about your accident.  I hope your head feels better shortly.
 
2013-11-12 03:42:26 PM

guestguy: Police are trained to deal with situations like this


And where were they during all this? Oh yeah, given up by nightfall and gone off to fark around.

/when the seconds count...
 
2013-11-12 03:43:22 PM

guestguy: Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.


The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.
 
2013-11-12 03:43:57 PM
No need for a new doctrine. Just go with "the man needed killing" and we're good.
 
2013-11-12 03:45:33 PM

redmid17: guestguy: Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.

The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.


Devil's Advocate here: From the article, they state that a tip led the 'family' to know about a vacant house not far from where the car was found.

At that point, the family made a choice to forego waiting for the police and charged off to save the day and yes, they did just that.

Having said that, would we all be singing this same tune if the attacker had slit the girl's throat upon hearing the 4-wheelers coming in?
 
2013-11-12 03:45:33 PM

Mentalpatient87: guestguy: Police are trained to deal with situations like this

And where were they during all this? Oh yeah, given up by nightfall and gone off to fark around.

/when the seconds count...


i17.photobucket.com

"On Friday, as police and family members alike searched near Thomas' abandoned car, along with areas near his hometown, witnesses gave the family members a tip about a vacant house in a nearby field where the car was located. "
 
2013-11-12 03:47:13 PM
If you want something done right, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
 
2013-11-12 03:47:31 PM

redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.


Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.
 
2013-11-12 03:48:51 PM

guestguy: "On Friday, as police and family members alike searched near Thomas' abandoned car, along with areas near his hometown, witnesses gave the family members a tip about a vacant house in a nearby field where the car was located. "


Ah, got my timeline mixed up there. Still, they were lagging behind.

Infernalist: Having said that, would we all be singing this same tune if the attacker had slit the girl's throat upon hearing the 4-wheelers coming in?


Well, hindsight is 20/20 and we're all critical dicks on this site, so what do you think?
 
2013-11-12 03:49:06 PM

guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.


So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy
 
2013-11-12 03:49:58 PM

Hobodeluxe: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?


Yeah, nobody at all argues the second amendment is obsolete or that we'd be better off with no individual gun ownership like in those more enlightened countries with modern progressive ideas few people have thought of before like having an armed government and disarmed populace.  Nobody wants to limit what you do with your body or interfere with your right to free speech or other civil liberties in any way.  It's just all these conspiracy theorist nuts in groups like the NRA, IJ, or ACLU making it seem that way.  Of course I'm being sarcastic, as cheap a tactic as it is.

Doom MD  is correct.  Much as we tend to prefer a guilty person to walk rather than have an innocent person hang, there are many people around, and Fark is certainly no exception, that would be quite happy to completely outlaw all gun ownership and have the occassional innoent fatality rather than have individuals able to do things they'd like to see government solely in control of.  Why deny the obvious?  You know those people who protest against partial birth abortion?  No matter what they say in public, a good number of them want to ban ALL abortion.
 
2013-11-12 03:51:01 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


From the article, it states that a third party gave a tip to family members who rushed off without the police.

I fail to see how the police are to blame for the family's irresponsible actions.
 
2013-11-12 03:53:57 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


They were helping out by looking/asking around in one area while the cops were looking/asking around in another from the sounds of it.  That it happened to be the family which stumbled upon the tip doesn't make the police incompetent or lazy in this case.  It does strike me as reckless that the family charged in there themselves instead of notifying the police though.
 
2013-11-12 03:54:06 PM

Infernalist: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

From the article, it states that a third party gave a tip to family members who rushed off without the police.

I fail to see how the police are to blame for the family's irresponsible actions.


The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy
 
2013-11-12 03:54:16 PM
As someone who is a gun control advocate (whatever that means), I say: good for them.  It looked like the police were royally farking up the search (and probably didn't give a damn anyway), so they saved her life.  That's appropriate firearm usage.
 
2013-11-12 03:55:10 PM
So there was "a vacant house in a nearby field where the car was located" and this escaped the attention of the police how? That's the sort of question I'd be asking, if I ran the zoo.
 
2013-11-12 03:55:13 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility
 
2013-11-12 03:56:36 PM

guestguy: Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.


Exactly, they would have come up sirens blaring while brandishing weapons.
 
2013-11-12 03:56:49 PM

redmid17: Infernalist: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

From the article, it states that a third party gave a tip to family members who rushed off without the police.

I fail to see how the police are to blame for the family's irresponsible actions.

The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


iirc, the article said that the police called off their search for the day because it got dark.
 
2013-11-12 03:57:15 PM
meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.


Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.
 
2013-11-12 03:57:49 PM

lack of warmth: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility


Always a possibility but I doubt the neighbors would hesitate to narc on a serial domestic abuser who kidnapped his mother'd child at knifepoint
 
2013-11-12 04:01:11 PM

Thingster: Exactly, they would have come up sirens blaring while brandishing weapons.


Somehow I doubt that would be their approach when they have a mentally unstable, hostage-holding suspect...
 
2013-11-12 04:02:35 PM

redmid17: lack of warmth: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility

Always a possibility but I doubt the neighbors would hesitate to narc on a serial domestic abuser who kidnapped his mother'd child at knifepoint


So, you think they wouldn't hesitate to inform on a repeat offender with violent tendencies on the loose.

Well, that's certainly 'one' opinion.
 
2013-11-12 04:02:44 PM
HuffPost Headline:
Bethany Arceneaux, Kidnapping Victim, Rescued By Family Members Who Killed Her Captor: Cops

Wait, what? Who is cops? Why are they hanging out near my colon?
 
2013-11-12 04:04:02 PM

redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.
 
2013-11-12 04:05:05 PM

Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.


He said he made up the numbers. But then, the whole post was pretty much nothing but those numbers and attempted support for them. So, basically what he said was "here's a bunch of shiat you don't need to read because I have nothing to say."
 
2013-11-12 04:06:11 PM

Publikwerks: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

There is a time and a place for guns. This was one of them.

But, not every occasion calls for armed intervention.


It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.
 
2013-11-12 04:06:23 PM

guestguy: redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.


The family spread out between the area by the car and near the kidnapper's home with police. The cops were near the kidnapper's home after they had given up searching the area around the car with bloodhounds and interviewing the people in the area.

So I will go with incompetence.

This article is much more thorough:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20131109/NEWS01/311090023/
 
2013-11-12 04:07:37 PM

guestguy: Thingster: Exactly, they would have come up sirens blaring while brandishing weapons.

Somehow I doubt that would be their approach when they have a mentally unstable, hostage-holding suspect...


I know of a guy who decided to blow off his head when he heard the sirens coming, instead of continuing to try to burn down his ex's house. So, your doubt is a little misplaced. When responding to a call of "this guy dressed down in combat fatigues is pouring gas all over this house," sirens blaring seemed to be SOP.
 
2013-11-12 04:08:22 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.

The family spread out between the area by the car and near the kidnapper's home with police. The cops were near the kidnapper's home after they had given up searching the area around the car with bloodhounds and interviewing the people in the area.

So I will go with incompetence.

This article is much more thorough:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20131109/NEWS01/311090023/


Yep.  It sounds like the cops were searching, noticed an abandoned house near where she was last seen and basically said "eh, that would require us to cross the road and walk a bit through a forest."
 
2013-11-12 04:08:45 PM
800,000 defensive uses of firearms isn't terribly far off. Depending on the study, the number is anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000.

/per the CDC
 
2013-11-12 04:09:11 PM
Breaking down the door is so gauche, I prefer the stealthy approach myself

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-12 04:09:15 PM

Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.


http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

CDC says 1.5 Million defensive gun uses.  Most studies say 800K to 2.5 Million.  Mind you, I'd love to see how they're defining "defensive gun uses" (ie: "saying I have a gun" vs. "shooting that mentally ill guy who just pulled a knife").

And of course, there's a difference between DGU's and people using guns defensively.

/And have you SEEN the inner cities? 99% of America is safe, the other 1% is crazy Mad Max.
//I remember hearing that if you removed 4 cities, America had the lowest violent crime rate of any first world country.  I want to say they were Camden, Oakland, Newark, and Chicago, but really don't quote me on that because I'm almost certainly wrong.
 
2013-11-12 04:09:47 PM

ZeroCorpse: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

If the kidnapper hadn't had a firearm, she wouldn't have been kidnapped.

Try again.


Where in TFA does it say the kidnapper had a firearm?
 
2013-11-12 04:10:50 PM

dpaul007: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

You: use of firearms required in all cases ranging from jaywalking to shoplifting.
Your imagined adversaries: we're coming to your house to take your guns while shouting OBAMA AKBAR.

The rest of us use reason and logic.


Ive seen very little reason and logic on the gun grabber side, as your straw-man argument above shows.
 
2013-11-12 04:10:59 PM
If I am even in that situation, I've had lots of practice
static.taigame.org

Now where, exactly, do I even *get* a bunch of horsemen?
 
2013-11-12 04:11:55 PM

Mentalpatient87: Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.

He said he made up the numbers. But then, the whole post was pretty much nothing but those numbers and attempted support for them. So, basically what he said was "here's a bunch of shiat you don't need to read because I have nothing to say."


Look at the crime and self defense section. There are a bunch of linked studies. Basically the most conservative estimate and one the VPC endorses says around 100K defensive gun uses a year. The highest I've seen is 2.4 million
 
2013-11-12 04:12:25 PM

redmid17: lack of warmth: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility

Always a possibility but I doubt the neighbors would hesitate to narc on a serial domestic abuser who kidnapped his mother'd child at knifepoint


Have you been to Detroit?  Or Flint for that matter?  A week or so ago, a domestic violence call was made, the cops showed up to find a rolling pin and a broken plate in the driveway.  No one would talk to them, so they shrugged and left.  They'll investigate further once a body shows up.  Domestic violence isn't called on very often, yet it happens often.  My locksmith cousin makes his money from rekeying cars for used car dealerships and changing the locks for battered women.  He said some of the battered women are repeat customers, and they only called him and not the cops.
 
2013-11-12 04:13:21 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy


Or a prevailing attitude of "snitches get stitches."
 
2013-11-12 04:15:23 PM

meyerkev: Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

CDC says 1.5 Million defensive gun uses.  Most studies say 800K to 2.5 Million.  Mind you, I'd love to see how they're defining "defensive gun uses" (ie: "saying I have a gun" vs. "shooting that mentally ill guy who just pulled a knife").

And of course, there's a difference between DGU's and people using guns defensively.

/And have you SEEN the inner cities? 99% of America is safe, the other 1% is crazy Mad Max.
//I remember hearing that if you removed 4 cities, America had the lowest violent crime rate of any first world country.  I want to say they were Camden, Oakland, Newark, and Chicago, but really don't quote me on that because I'm almost certainly wrong.


That last "remove 4 cities" stat is pretty debunked, but your overarching point is pretty spot on. Violent crime and murders are clustered in very small areas.
 
2013-11-12 04:15:26 PM

redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.

The family spread out between the area by the car and near the kidnapper's home with police. The cops were near the kidnapper's home after they had given up searching the area around the car with bloodhounds and interviewing the people in the area.

So I will go with incompetence.

This article is much more thorough:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20131109/NEWS01/311090023/



Maybe I'm missing it (please point it out if I am), but I don't see anything in that article indicating that police had given up on the area where the family members got the tip.  It says that police and family/friends were searching both areas on Friday.

Also:  "When Thomas heard family members enter the house, she said, he began stabbing her."
So the guy only started stabbing when he heard the family members storming the house.  At that point, they sure as shiat had every right to shoot the guy, but it does sound like their not-so-delicate entry was the impetus for the violence towards the girl.  Reckless.
 
2013-11-12 04:15:54 PM

Mentalpatient87: I know of a guy who decided to blow off his head when he heard the sirens coming, instead of continuing to try to burn down his ex's house.


He also could have said "fark, outta time." and shot the ex instead of burning the house down.

No accounting for crazy.
 
2013-11-12 04:18:28 PM

Infernalist: redmid17: guestguy: Has anyone mentioned that the dude might have started stabbing the girl because he heard the approaching redneck posse?  I'm extremely glad that they got the bastard and saved the girl, but this whole thing seems incredibly reckless to me...they could have just as easily ended up getting her killed.  Police are trained to deal with situations like this, and that training probably doesn't entail rolling up on a hostage-taker with noisy four-wheelers brandishing weapons.

The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Devil's Advocate here: From the article, they state that a tip led the 'family' to know about a vacant house not far from where the car was found.

At that point, the family made a choice to forego waiting for the police and charged off to save the day and yes, they did just that.

Having said that, would we all be singing this same tune if the attacker had slit the girl's throat upon hearing the 4-wheelers coming in?


No, we'd be mourning her loss, as most humans would have done.

You see, the perp had already shown his willingness to hurt/main/kill her by his previous actions and by *kidnapping* her. I seriously doubt anyone that screwed-up would have listened to reason and let her go. She was in danger of being killed the moment he kidnapped her.
 
2013-11-12 04:18:37 PM

Whiskey Dickens: meyerkev:
90 million gun owners didn't murder anyone last year.
800K of them used their guns defensively last year.

Approximately 1 in 100 Americans who own a gun use it defensively, EVERY YEAR?  What kind of Mad Max bullshiat wasteland has the US turned into?

I'd like to see a citation for the 800,000 people defending themselves yearly with a gun.


You can't, because it's imaginary.

There's only 1.2m violent crimes in the US each year. (It was a little lower than this last year)

His number assumes 66% of all violent crimes are defended by a gun successfully(?) every year.

It's an obvious lie to anyone with more than a single brain cell. The ways these fake numbers are obtained is by selective bias, lying by the people they choose, exaggeration as to what counts as a defensive gun use, and horribly inaccurate extrapolation. The moment you look at the method behind any of these gun nut "studies" you realize they're nothing more than desperate ficiton.
 
2013-11-12 04:18:47 PM

MythDragon: If I am even in that situation, I've had lots of practice
[static.taigame.org image 800x600]

Now where, exactly, do I even *get* a bunch of horsemen?


Cavalry are useless in storming a castle. You need sappers, archers, and seige-engines.
 
2013-11-12 04:20:11 PM

lack of warmth: redmid17: lack of warmth: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The police were also too lazy or incompetent to find her.

Ah, I see.  And you of course have facts to back that up and aren't at all extracting that statement from your sphincter.

So the family members managed to get helpful clues from his neighbors and people in the vicinity of where he abandoned his car. The police did not.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Or one of those neighborhoods that just don't talk to police.

/I don't the area, but just sayin' a possibility

Always a possibility but I doubt the neighbors would hesitate to narc on a serial domestic abuser who kidnapped his mother'd child at knifepoint

Have you been to Detroit?  Or Flint for that matter?  A week or so ago, a domestic violence call was made, the cops showed up to find a rolling pin and a broken plate in the driveway.  No one would talk to them, so they shrugged and left.  They'll investigate further once a body shows up.  Domestic violence isn't called on very often, yet it happens often.  My locksmith cousin makes his money from rekeying cars for used car dealerships and changing the locks for battered women.  He said some of the battered women are repeat customers, and they only called him and not the cops.


I haven't been to Detroit  in 2-3 years but considering the budget cuts to the PD and the Fark links trying to get a police officer to show up to a break in it doesn't surprise me. That said a kidnapping in progress is probably going to get more attention, and those people aren't in Detroit.
 
2013-11-12 04:20:39 PM

Facetious_Speciest: 800,000 defensive uses of firearms isn't terribly far off. Depending on the study, the number is anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000.

/per the CDC


No, they aren't. And again no, not per the CDC.

Please stop lying. Thanks.
 
2013-11-12 04:21:17 PM

doglover: Mentalpatient87: I know of a guy who decided to blow off his head when he heard the sirens coming, instead of continuing to try to burn down his ex's house.

He also could have said "fark, outta time." and shot the ex instead of burning the house down.

No accounting for crazy.


Or he could have taken cover to blast Johnny Law when he pulled up. I know, I thought about this. It wasn't a good situation.
 
2013-11-12 04:21:51 PM

Mentalpatient87: guestguy: Thingster: Exactly, they would have come up sirens blaring while brandishing weapons.

Somehow I doubt that would be their approach when they have a mentally unstable, hostage-holding suspect...

I know of a guy who decided to blow off his head when he heard the sirens coming, instead of continuing to try to burn down his ex's house. So, your doubt is a little misplaced. When responding to a call of "this guy dressed down in combat fatigues is pouring gas all over this house," sirens blaring seemed to be SOP.



Could be that they would roll up just as recklessly as a group of untrained civilians, but I would have a lot more faith in the cops doing what's right in that situation than a bunch of emotionally charged vigilantes.
 
2013-11-12 04:24:08 PM

meyerkev: CDC says 1.5 Million defensive gun uses.


CDC says there's more defensive gun uses than violent crime?

Stop lying please. This shiat is farking pathetic.

Everyone citation of these made up stats goes back to the BS, not valid in ANY way study by Kleck.

Stop citing it, stop believing the lies you have been fed over and over again. They are not true, they have been discredited hundreds of times. The methodology is inherently faulty.

What we know for certain is that there are 1.2m violent crimes per year. That is a FACT. The number of defensive gun uses should be proportionally related to this number and by definition, cannot exceed it.
 
2013-11-12 04:24:10 PM

bucket_pup: And not single Fark was given that day for the deceased.


Zombies don't need no farking but pray there's a fark in the hereafter. Eternity is a very long time to withhold criticism.
 
2013-11-12 04:25:28 PM

Molavian: I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.


Yes.
 
2013-11-12 04:26:22 PM

guestguy: but I would have a lot more faith in the cops doing what's right in that situation than a bunch of emotionally charged vigilantes.


Doesn't really matter, you said you doubted they would do what I told you they actually did. Is your doubt gone?
 
2013-11-12 04:27:51 PM

nocturnal001: Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...

I had assumed this would be the all to common "excessive force guy kills somebody and wingnuts rush to defend gun rights" deal but this seems pretty legit.

Maybe stupid of them not to have given the tip to the police though, but I can't blame them.  Now if they had broken in the door and shot him without an imminent threat to the woman's life, then that might be a problem.


....................not if they killed him.
 
2013-11-12 04:28:55 PM

guestguy: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.

The family spread out between the area by the car and near the kidnapper's home with police. The cops were near the kidnapper's home after they had given up searching the area around the car with bloodhounds and interviewing the people in the area.

So I will go with incompetence.

This article is much more thorough:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20131109/NEWS01/311090023/

Maybe I'm missing it (please point it out if I am), but I don't see anything in that article indicating that police had given up on the area where the family members got the tip.  It says that police and family/friends were searching both areas on Friday.

Also:  "When Thomas heard family members enter the house, she said, he began stabbing her."
So the guy only started stabbing when he heard the family members storming the house.  At that point, they sure as shiat had every right to shoot the guy, but it does sound like their not-so-delicate entry was the impetus for the violence towards the girl.  Reckless.


Even if the police were in the area, someone how they still didn't info. The guy stabbing her also hadn't given her any food or water in over 2 days.
 
2013-11-12 04:33:38 PM

redmid17: Violent crime and murders are clustered in very small areas.


Usually areas about 9mm across.
 
2013-11-12 04:39:02 PM
justtray

No, they aren't. And again no, not per the CDC.

Please stop lying. Thanks.


We're all reading one report from the CDC, essentially commissioned by the president.

You're sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "LIARS! LIARS!"

It's a huge conspiracy against you, personally.
 
2013-11-12 04:43:11 PM
justtray

Read it.
 
2013-11-12 04:44:52 PM

Mentalpatient87: guestguy: but I would have a lot more faith in the cops doing what's right in that situation than a bunch of emotionally charged vigilantes.

Doesn't really matter, you said you doubted they would do what I told you they actually did. Is your doubt gone?



No, my doubt is not gone because of your "this one time" story.
 
2013-11-12 04:45:05 PM
Their only mistake is they didn't get it done quietly, then finish the job with a 50 gallon barrel of hydrochloric acid.
 
2013-11-12 04:45:20 PM

Theaetetus: What makes you so sure of this? The kid is 2 years old, and she only got the protective order in June. He could've become abusive after the kid's birth. With no evidence either way, you're sure jumping quickly to the conclusion that she was to blame.


No, she knew what he was. You can say "there's no evidence" but youd be both 1) lying and 2) not living in the real world.
 
2013-11-12 04:48:28 PM

redmid17: Even if the police were in the area, someone how they still didn't info. The guy stabbing her also hadn't given her any food or water in over 2 days.



Because it would be stupid for the police and family to knock on the exact same doors...they were spreading out and covering different areas in parallel from the sound of it.  And yes, she was hungry and dehydrated, but she wasn't stabbed until the family stormed the place.
 
2013-11-12 04:49:42 PM
That woman really needs to evaluate her life choices. This is like what, the 3rd or 4th time this has happened in the last few days?
 
2013-11-12 04:54:49 PM

guestguy: redmid17: Even if the police were in the area, someone how they still didn't info. The guy stabbing her also hadn't given her any food or water in over 2 days.

Because it would be stupid for the police and family to knock on the exact same doors...they were spreading out and covering different areas in parallel from the sound of it.  And yes, she was hungry and dehydrated, but she wasn't stabbed until the family stormed the place.


Except the cops would have done the same thing when they heard her screams. Unless of course they decided to surround the house and announce their presence.
Then Stabby LaStabberson could have finished her off in peace while they waited for a hostage negotiator.
 
2013-11-12 04:56:57 PM

Agnes Gonxha's Confidant: Vertdang: Good for all involved. Solid work family.

If I faced that same situation, where one of my girls was taken from me, not the cops, not the abductor, not even GOD HIMSELF could stop me from getting them back.

[cl.jroo.me image 551x414]


You're god damn straight. You don't mess w/ my little girls.
 
2013-11-12 05:04:06 PM

Luse: Except the cops would have done the same thing when they heard her screams. Unless of course they decided to surround the house and announce their presence.
Then Stabby LaStabberson could have finished her off in peace while they waited for a hostage negotiator.



Yep, the training that they put cops through to handle situations like that is mostly for show.  When push comes to shove, they're really no better than untrained civilians...amirite?
 
2013-11-12 05:05:53 PM
meyerkev:
On the other hand, there were ~9K gun murders and ~18K suicides IIRC.
/Mind you, I admit that I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but


Try "In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States " and just under that many total automobile deaths.
 
2013-11-12 05:08:15 PM

guestguy: Yep, the training that they put cops through to handle situations like that is mostly for show. When push comes to shove, they're really no better than untrained civilians...amirite?


You really wanna open that can of worms on Fark, home of the weekly police abuse thread?
 
2013-11-12 05:09:03 PM
Damn straight, good for those folks. That is what family is about, protecting their own.
 
2013-11-12 05:13:36 PM

Mentalpatient87: guestguy: Yep, the training that they put cops through to handle situations like that is mostly for show. When push comes to shove, they're really no better than untrained civilians...amirite?

You really wanna open that can of worms on Fark, home of the weekly police abuse thread?



I do love a good train wreck.
 
2013-11-12 05:17:11 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


And if they had the wrong house?  What happens when somebody exercises the "Storm the castle" defense and gets the wrong house?
 
2013-11-12 05:18:23 PM

Facetious_Speciest: justtray

Read it.


I don't need to read it because I know it is factually impossible to achieve that number.

You didn't even link anything except the cover of a report that did no actual analysis.

In fact, I read the first 15 pages of you link, googled it, and still couldn't find anything that stated the CDC did ANY study on DGU at all other than to reiterate existing studies.

Here's the quotation I found through another website from the CDC report;

 * The National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) has estimated that there are between 60,000 and 105,000 DGUs per year.  Between the years 1992 and 1994, the NCVS reported there were in total 116,000 DGUs.
 * Kleck and Gertz (1995) estimated the annual occurrence of DGUs to be around 2.5 million per year.
 * The CDC report made no effort to reconcile the differing estimates of DGUs, except to note that the estimate provided by the Kleck group was larger by an order of magnitude than the estimate arising from the NCVS.  The CDC report noted that the estimate of DGU provided by the Kleck group is twice again as large as the estimate of the Dept. of Justice that there are 1.3 million crimes committed with a gun in the USA every year.


All you're doing by saying the CDC says that is lying again. You're taking an already verifiably false number comparing it to much more rational one (100,000) and cutting the difference saying, "well Kleck was wrong but it's probably between Kleck and some other report."

What you are reporting as DGU is a lie. It is not CDC numbers, it is not real. It is nothing more than the fevered imagination of a multitude of gun nuts. You have been caught reiterating a lie that you believed because of confirmation bias.

Please admit you were wrong and change your position accordingly.

And just to really dive home how wrong and ignorant you are;

Perhaps this is the lie you're attempting to repeat (from 2001 and again 100% invalid study)

The researchers found that six percent of the sample population had used a firearm in a burglary situation in the last twelve months. http://davekopel.org/2a/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F32">[FN32] Extrapolating the polling sample to the national population, the researchers estimated that in the last twelve months, there were approximately 1,896,842 incidents in which a householder retrieved a firearm but did not see an intruder. http://davekopel.org/2a/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F33">[FN33] There were an estimated 503,481 incidents in which the armed householder did see the burglar, http://davekopel.org/2a/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F34">[FN34] and 497,646 incidents in which the burglar was scared away by the firearm. http://davekopel.org/2a/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F35">[FN35] In other words, half a million times every year, burglars were likely forced to flee a home because they encountered an armed victim.

DGU is nothing more than a lie constantly repeated to make gun nuts feel like theres ANY math on their side that supports their position. Even the people who are out there chronicling ALL DGU they can find can't even get to numbers over 1000.

This link explains the issues pretty clearly with DGU.

Stop linking DGU stats, stop quoting them, and most importantly, stop pretending like they're real.
 
2013-11-12 05:33:48 PM

ferretman: Another thread where dems/libs will imply that 'Stand Your Ground' law was involved in the Zimmerman/Martin incident.


Other than changing the jury instructions to make it impossible to convict him, it had nothing to do with Zippy's acquittal.
 
2013-11-12 05:35:46 PM

stevetherobot: Hobodeluxe: Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.

no one wants to take your gun. we just want to try to keep them out of the crazy people's hands. sure we might not stop all of them but we should at least make it more difficult don't you think?

Speaking of crazy persons, if the crazy person kidnapper had had a gun, he would have shot her instead of stabbing her and she would most likely be dead now.


Like what happened in the very same town not long ago. Mickey Schunick was kidnapped and she fought good and long for her life. She managed to stab the scumbag with his own knife before he shot her.

What's it with my hometown and the insane scumbags?

I also agree with whoever said don't fark with a Cajun girl.
 
2013-11-12 05:39:39 PM
justtray

I don't need to read it because I know it is factually impossible to achieve that number.

Oh, lol.

You didn't even link anything except the cover of a report that did no actual analysis.

In fact, I read the first 15 pages of you link...


One or the other. Either there was nothing (it's a link for you to get the report, which shouldn't have been terribly difficult to figure out) or there were multiple pages.

I assume you mean you read the first fifteen pages elsewhere. Where'd you get your copy?

...and still couldn't find anything that stated the CDC did ANY study on DGU at all other than to reiterate existing studies.

Remember when you called me a liar? Look at what you quoted. "Depending on the study," I said. That means multiple studies. "Per the CDC," I said. As in those studies are what they're talking about in the report. Derp.

No lying. You're just insane when it comes to anything touching on firearms.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, even though you're now contradicting yourself.

All you're doing by saying the CDC says that is lying again.

No, in actuality, the report does cite those studies. I am not lying. You are simply a crazy person with tunnel vision and poor reasoning skills.

If you can't discuss this rationally, I won't discuss it with you. Calling me a liar over and over isn't rational. If you can't move past that, I'll live.
 
2013-11-12 05:49:59 PM
Facetious_Speciest:

Dude that was some impressive spinning there. 10/10.

All you had to say was, "you're right I was wrong I will adjust my position based on how you showed me factually wrong with the actual quotes unlike the non sources I provided."

The fact remains that no, the CDC does NOT say there are 500k+ DGU per year. That was a lie on your part. The CDC does not say that, they say that there are non valid, factually incorrect studies that assert that.

I even went so far to provide you a link that explains in detail why those numbers are made up and have no place in reality.

I didn't contradict myself at all. Your link did not even provide the numbers you said it did, and I had to find the link myself to the actual report. You failed at even the most basic fundamental level of being able to source your lies which caused me to actually do the real work of showing your lies to you with actual links.

I'm sorry I wasted time with you, I will not make that mistake again. You have proven yourself to be a liar within this thread, unable to acknowledge or accept the facts and common sense given to you. You are literally the definition of a lost cause low information human being.
 
2013-11-12 06:08:48 PM
justtray

Brass tacks:

The fact remains that no, the CDC does NOT say there are 500k+ DGU per year. That was a lie on your part.

This is not true. At all.

I even went so far to provide you a link that explains in detail why those numbers are made up and have no place in reality.

I'll trust the CDC's information over "Professor Propaganda."

Your link did not even provide the numbers you said it did, and I had to find the link myself to the actual report.

You can't link to the report, can you?
 
2013-11-12 06:11:22 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: [annanimmity.com image 360x206]


Done in 1.
 
2013-11-12 06:30:05 PM

Witty_Retort: ferretman: Another thread where dems/libs will imply that 'Stand Your Ground' law was involved in the Zimmerman/Martin incident.

Other than changing the jury instructions to make

 THE FACTS MADE it impossible to convict him, it had nothing to do with Zippy's acquittal.

FTFY
 
2013-11-12 06:37:11 PM

Doom MD: Oh look another innocent life saved by firearms. I guess some of the statists in here would prefer she be stabbed to death.


You used the word "statist" so please give a moment to catch my breath.

Whew.

Ok.

Have fun fantasizing about what people you don't agree with "would prefer".  You're a fun one.
 
2013-11-12 06:59:36 PM
Tired of waiting for "LIAR!" guy.

From the CDC report, commissioned by President Obama in the wake of numerous shootings: "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year..."

It's on page 15, last paragraph before the footnotes, under "Defensive Use of Guns." Direct quote. I am literally looking at it right now.

This report and its contents in this regard have been acknowledged by such right-wing publications as Slate, Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and PBS.

It is not a vast conspiracy. Some people are just idiots.
 
db2
2013-11-12 07:03:50 PM
Bethany Arceneaux, Kidnapping Victim, Rescued By Family Members Who Killed Her Captor: Cops

She was being held captive by cops?
 
2013-11-12 07:16:40 PM

Facetious_Speciest: justtray

Brass tacks:

The fact remains that no, the CDC does NOT say there are 500k+ DGU per year. That was a lie on your part.

This is not true. At all.

I even went so far to provide you a link that explains in detail why those numbers are made up and have no place in reality.

I'll trust the CDC's information over "Professor Propaganda."

Your link did not even provide the numbers you said it did, and I had to find the link myself to the actual report.

You can't link to the report, can you?


In his defense:

From his quote, DGU was functionally defined as "I grabbed a gun because I thought I *might* need to use it".  That's where they got 1.5 Million from, of which 500K were "I pulled my gun and showed it off".  And keep in mind that if the house didn't get robbed (or "Homeless dude is acting crazy in my general direction, I lift my shirt to show off my gun, he starts acting crazy in the opposite direction"), there wasn't a crime (or at least, I know a lot of people who wouldn't bother reporting it), and therefore it wouldn't show up on crime statistics, so it's not so much 800K gun users defended themselves against 1.2 million crimes as "Some percentage of X DGU's went towards fighting off 1.2 Million crimes, some were unnecessary, and some of them went towards ensuring that there weren't another however many hundreds of thousands MORE violent crimes".

Now his preferred study had some problems of its own, namely that the NVCD is a non-anonymous survey, that they ask location questions before gun use questions, and that you are then confessing having committed a crime to a federal employee who knows who you are and where you live.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html - 2nd wall of text - "...  In short, it is made very clear to respondents that they are, in effect, speaking to a law enforcement arm of the federal government, whose employees know exactly who the respondents and their family members are, where they live, and how they can be recontacted.  ...  It is not hard for gun-using victims interviewed in the NCVS to withhold information about their use of a gun, especially since they are never directly asked whether they used a gun for self-protection.   ... 88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee."

So some number between the 100K and the 1.5M of the average of all those other reports were actual defensive gun uses.  CDC's probably a bit high, NVCD is definitely low.

Actually, let's have a thought experiment:

NVCD said ~100K DGU's.
12% of NVCD crimes were "legal" (or at least inside the home)
Assume that DGU's and "inside the home" are independent variables.  (And this is bullshiat, but it's still an interesting thought experiment)
Assume that of the defensive gun uses, every inside the home use was reported as such, and every outside the home (ie: "illegal") was not.  (ditto)
So 12% of DGU's was about 108K.
Which means that there were 900K DGU's last year.

Mind you, those 2 middle assumptions are bullshiat, and I admit they're bullshiat, but I'd love to know the actual effects of that survey.  Even if that gets us double the actual number (so ~1 in 4 instead of 1 in 8), that gets us to 450K.  It's still hundreds of thousands of crimes that were prevented by guns that caused 29K deaths last year and ~70K injuries in 2007, which was the first year I found data for (including those defensive gun uses?) -  http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf

/And then of course, you get to account for "Hey, I could rob that house (/mug that person/etc), but there might be a gun inside (Yay for herd immunity*), so I won't rob that house".   "Oh hey, you functionally banned the use of guns in self-defense.  BWAHAHA."

*And I'm stereoblind and losing my right eye, so I LIKE that herd immunity since I'm firmly in the camp of people who should never, ever, under any circumstances be allowed to own guns.
 
2013-11-12 07:17:29 PM
No family members have been charged in the killing of Thomas, and may never be. A state "defense of others" law says homicide can be justified if someone's life is in danger.

Well, at least there are some states where it is (still) legal to use lethal force to stop a person from murdering someone.

But if this had happened in Maryland, for example, the family members would be in jail now.
 
2013-11-12 07:22:57 PM
meyerkev

I totally get arguing methodology, definitions, etc...but to flat-out state that something wasn't published that was, and to call everyone correctly citing said publication liars, because you personally don't like it is both intellectually dishonest and, honestly, the tack of a stupid person.

I don't like anti-sodomy laws, but I would never argue they never existed or that people who point out they exist are liars. That's just idiocy.
 
2013-11-12 07:27:50 PM
Bethany Arceneaux was abducted by her ex-boyfriend Scott Thomas and the father to her 2-year-old son.

It's the son who I pity the most in stories like this. He inherited his father's genes, so you wonder how he'll turn out when he's 29. You hope he gets the positive influence of a decent father figure long before then.
 
2013-11-12 08:23:03 PM

guestguy: redmid17: guestguy: redmid17: The third party was in the same area as the family and the police. Somehow the family found out first. The police showed up second.

Take your pick: incompetent or lazy

Because the family wouldn't be searching the exact same spot as the cops, that would be stupid.  It sounds like a parallel effort trying to cover as much ground as possible, and the family happened to stumble onto a tip first.

The family spread out between the area by the car and near the kidnapper's home with police. The cops were near the kidnapper's home after they had given up searching the area around the car with bloodhounds and interviewing the people in the area.

So I will go with incompetence.

This article is much more thorough:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20131109/NEWS01/311090023/

Maybe I'm missing it (please point it out if I am), but I don't see anything in that article indicating that police had given up on the area where the family members got the tip.  It says that police and family/friends were searching both areas on Friday.

Also:  "When Thomas heard family members enter the house, she said, he began stabbing her."
So the guy only started stabbing when he heard the family members storming the house.  At that point, they sure as shiat had every right to shoot the guy, but it does sound like their not-so-delicate entry was the impetus for the violence towards the girl.  Reckless.


I'm sure he was just having her over for tea and crumpets if it weren't for the family... right?
 
2013-11-12 08:27:44 PM

guestguy: Mentalpatient87: guestguy: Yep, the training that they put cops through to handle situations like that is mostly for show. When push comes to shove, they're really no better than untrained civilians...amirite?

You really wanna open that can of worms on Fark, home of the weekly police abuse thread?

I do love a good train wreck.


Here you go...
 
2013-11-12 09:39:17 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Obviously, it's generally a bad thing to kick in a door and shoot someone, but I think there's the occasional exception...


This just goes to show that there really is an exception to every rule...
 
2013-11-12 10:31:39 PM

Big_Fat_Liar: Much as we tend to prefer a guilty person to walk rather than have an innocent person hang, there are many people around, and Fark is certainly no exception, that would be quite happy to completely outlaw all gun ownership and have the occassional innoent fatality rather than have individuals able to do things they'd like to see government solely in control of.


2012
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,672
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

What an occasional innocent fatality may look like.
 
2013-11-12 11:03:07 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:


Over in one. My faith in FARK is restored.
 
2013-11-12 11:29:30 PM

MythDragon: If I am even in that situation, I've had lots of practice
[static.taigame.org image 800x600]

Now where, exactly, do I even *get* a bunch of horsemen?


Where are the siege engines?
 
2013-11-12 11:30:14 PM

FOUR-WHEELED JUSTICE

 
2013-11-13 01:51:08 AM
This is like the last third of every Sookie Stackhouse novel...
 
2013-11-13 05:37:56 AM
What do you do when the peat blows off your garden?
 
2013-11-13 07:28:12 AM

give me doughnuts: MythDragon: If I am even in that situation, I've had lots of practice
[static.taigame.org image 800x600]

Now where, exactly, do I even *get* a bunch of horsemen?

Cavalry are useless in storming a castle. You need sappers, archers, and seige-engines.


belhade: MythDragon: If I am even in that situation, I've had lots of practice
[static.taigame.org image 800x600]

Now where, exactly, do I even *get* a bunch of horsemen?

Where are the siege engines?


They are all on the other side of the castle. While they are mocking my horses, and thinking how silly I am, they are about to catch a boulder to the back of the head. That's some Sun Tzu shiat right there. "All warfare is based on deception". Who would leave unguarded siege engines on the back side of someone's castle and park a bunch of horses out front? No one! That's why it will work.


/update: It didn't work. They must not have read Sun Tzu.
 
2013-11-13 09:23:02 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Tired of waiting for "LIAR!" guy.

From the CDC report, commissioned by President Obama in the wake of numerous shootings: "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year..."

It's on page 15, last paragraph before the footnotes, under "Defensive Use of Guns." Direct quote. I am literally looking at it right now.

This report and its contents in this regard have been acknowledged by such right-wing publications as Slate, Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and PBS.

It is not a vast conspiracy. Some people are just idiots.


Uh...I dont have a dog in this fight, but,


Kleck is best known for his 1995 study with Marc Gertz that claims that up to 2.5 million incidents of defensive gun use occur every year. Media figures and the National Rifle Association frequently cite this study to bolster their claims that owning firearms makes people safer.

But critics point to the study's "serious methodological difficulties" -- it extrapolates a very rare event, the slightly more than one percent of respondents to a survey that said they had used a gun in self-defense over the past year, to the entire population of 200 million adults. This means that even slight deficiencies in the accuracy of the survey, whether due to false positives or a sample that is not perfectly indicative of the overall population, can lead to large differences in the result. Harvard Injury Control Research Center Director David Hemenway has labeled Kleck's result "an enormous overestimate" and pointed out that the results require one to believe, for instance, that "burglary victims use their guns in self-defense more than 100% of the time."

Contra Kleck, data from the National Crime Victimization survey produced by the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics suggests that there are roughly 100,000 instances of defensive gun use per year.

Right-wing media have pointed to the report's citation of Kleck's research to claim that it proves that "guns actually save lives." In fact, the report's treatment of the criminologist's work is more complex, typically contrasting his results with other studies that show dramatically different results. For example, the report states (emphasis added):

    Estimates of gun use for self-defense vary widely, in part due to definitional differences for self-defensive gun use, different data sources, and questions about accuracy of data, particularly when self-reported. The NCVS has estimated 60,000 to 120,000 defensive uses of guns per year. Based on data from l992 and l994, the NCVS found 116,000 incidents (McDowall et al., 1998). Another body of research estimated annual gun use for self-defense to be much higher, up to 2.5 million incidents, suggesting that self-defense can be an important crime deterrent (Kleck and Gertz, 1995). Some studies on the association between self-defensive gun use and injury or loss to the victim have found less loss and injury when a firearm is used (Kleck, 2001b).

Similarly (emphasis added):

    Defensive uses of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A spokesperson for the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council would not comment on Kleck's controversial presence on the committee, but explained that the committee was selected by staff based on "folks that are nominated" with an eye toward providing "enough expertise to address all of the questions" at issue as well as "these different perspectives and points of view with the expertise." She stressed that the slate was approved by the president of the National Academy of Science and that all members must sign off on the report before its release.

Kleck and Leshner did not respond to requests for comment.


Apparently all those figures came from one guy...from the university of FLA, who used faulty polling.
 
2013-11-13 09:40:10 AM
Madbassist1

See my previous comment regarding arguing methodology vs. denying something was published.

They're not the same thing. When someone starts off with "you're a liar!" when it's clear that what I'm saying is true (that those numbers were published, in a report drawn up by the CDC), I have little interest in continuing with them.

"I have a problem with the studies the CDC referenced" is far more likely to generate discussion than "that was never referenced and that report doesn't exist."
 
2013-11-13 09:59:39 AM
I don't have a problem with the report, or its contents. Nor do I have an issue with the story I just sourced. I was just pointing out the issue (which I know nothing about)

/bubble bubble, toil and trouble!
 
2013-11-13 10:58:50 AM
I have no problem with people owning (or even carrying) guns.    Hell, it is a right.    What I have a problem is people who think the right comes with no responsibilities.   Much as with anything else, if you're going to operate something with potentially lethal results, you need to be darned cautious and unfortunately there are a lot of yahoos who will refuse to be educated.    This is fine until one of these guys "accidentally discharges"  a weapon into someone or applies lethal force (would it make you feel better if they was pushed out a windder little girl?) to a place where it is not justified.

After this, they should expect a serious legal response as well as a life time bar on firearm ownership and I won't shed a tear about them come crying (and boy if you hang around the forums where felons or domestic abusers are trying to reinstate their rights) about them no longer being able to defend themselves.   Self defense **** IS NOT****  a constitutional right.   Your right to self defense was abrogated when you unlawfully endangered another.
 
2013-11-13 11:31:56 AM

MBooda: Just a clarification: Anderson Road...that's Duson, not Lafayette. Almost the next Parish. That's like saying something happened in Los Angeles when it actually happened in Hollywood.



Just a clarification: Hollywood is a district of the City of Los Angeles, like Century City, Westwood, Brentwood, Marina Del Rey, San Pedro, et al. are. The Postal Service uses the "Hollywood" name for addressing and some state statistical reports list Hollywood separately, but it is simply a neighbourhood of the City of Los Angeles. Just like the Bronx is part of New York City, Roslindale is part of Boston, Georgetown is part of D.C.,, and those various named places on Oahu are parts of the City of Honolulu.

West Hollywood, however, is an unincorporated district of L.A. County.
 
2013-11-13 11:54:19 AM

meyerkev: /And have you SEEN the inner cities? 99% of America is safe, the other 1% is crazy Mad Max.
//I remember hearing that if you removed 4 cities, America had the lowest violent crime rate of any first world country.  I want to say they were Camden, Oakland, Newark, and Chicago, but really don't quote me on that because I'm almost certainly wrong.


Even in those cities - well, in Chicago anyway - violent crime is mostly confined to the ghettos.  Places where good people live, where major business occurs, and where tourists go can have crime - anywhere can - but they are very safe.

Our current police superintendent* has been reducing shootings and murders quite nicely (this year lowest since the mid 1960s) by better analysing statistics and flooding resources into the few districts** that have the overwhelming majority of the city's violent crime.


* Chicago has a single position called "superintendent" instead of a separate political commissioner/commission and a sworn chief like NYC, LA, and other large North American cities have)
 
2013-11-13 03:30:09 PM

Cormee: Or rock the casabah?


Careful, Sharia don't like it.
 
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