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(Guardian)   Remember how Apple was doomed because they lost Google Maps? Dose of reality to the left, reasonable non-partisan discussion to the right   (theguardian.com) divider line 164
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4080 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Nov 2013 at 2:14 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-11 11:49:52 PM
Whichever side you're on, you'll get over it
 
2013-11-11 11:59:47 PM
Meh. Apple Maps is still useless to me here in Thailand, because I can't read Thai, and unlike Google Maps, Apple Maps does not display transliterations of non-roman-alphabet languages. Sure, for the most part I can use any of the integration features many apps offer, but there are some apps that let you choose between using Google Maps and Apple Maps, and there is still a Google Maps app, so I get by.

Peter von Nostrand: Whichever side you're on, you'll get over it


Pretty much.
 
2013-11-12 12:11:39 AM
So Apple users get one choice and they're happy with it?
 
2013-11-12 12:47:23 AM
Apple Maps said this was the left side
 
2013-11-12 12:58:39 AM
Whatever, you know just let the market speak for itself. Personally, I'll continue to buy Samsung phones and use Android as I'm not a big fan of buying overpriced stuff, plus I own an iPad and I hate the dumb one button approach. I doubt people will abandon the iPhone because of Google Maps, though.

I doubt Google really gave a sh*t.
 
2013-11-12 01:12:31 AM
Meh. Whatever. I don't get too wrapped up in the religious side of the discussion. My iPad is good for some things, my ridiculously over-powered samsung phone is good for other things. My laptop is great for work when I'm on the road, and my tower is great for Borderlands 2 and Far Cry. I get best use out of the maps on my phone because that's what's easiest to reach while I'm driving.
 
2013-11-12 01:27:16 AM

bdub77: I doubt Google really gave a sh*t.


I agree, but was it a decision made out of spite, or did Google think that folks would said "I better get Android for turn-by-turn directions".? If the latter, then it was dumb, but I'm sure they were able to anticipate how many users they were losing ahead of time.

Peter von Nostrand: Whichever side you're on, you'll get over it


Seriously. AAPL is trading at $519 a share, and GOOG at $1010. Neither is hurting, that's for sure.
(BBRY is at $6.49 and NOK is at $7.74).
 
2013-11-12 02:21:10 AM

bdub77: I doubt Google really gave a sh*t.


When your entire business model is based on selling you to advertisers - they care a little bit.

/but I'm sure their barges in the San Francisco bay will solve all those problems
//and all that money spent in self driving cars
///really being focused on your core business their google
/should invest in slashies!
 
2013-11-12 02:25:36 AM
If a product is good, initially glitchy software won't stop people from using it.
Glitchy software can be fixed.
 
2013-11-12 03:02:32 AM
Apple could create an app that blows shiat into your mouth and the majority of Apple fans would think it's the greatest thing ever.  Don't know why anyone thought a shiatty maps app would deter any of them.
 
2013-11-12 03:03:53 AM
Bah. Google and Apple aren't competing nearly as much as the tech media would love us to believe. Apple dominates the high end phone market, Android dominates the middle and low end. Apple isn't even bothering to compete below the top level.

By dropping map support for iPhones, Google spared itself from having to support the incredibly restrictive environment of the Apple app store, where requirements and rankings change at Apple's whim. And Apple then had to scramble to build a Google Maps competitor out of thin air while Google watched, probably laughing their asses off. In the end, Google saved themselves a lot of dev time and expense, and it cost Apple a huge amount of time and PR. Losing a few million customers seems like a stiff price - until you realize that all those same customers are downloading OK Google in favor of Siri, so they really didn't leave Google's space. Google wins again.
 
2013-11-12 03:11:55 AM
Pretty sure that people weren't saying the biggest company in history was "doomed".. I think they said something more like, "ha ha, the biggest company in history has these shiatty maps."
 
2013-11-12 03:21:11 AM
unlikely: Meh. Whatever. I don't get too wrapped up in the religious side of the discussion. My iPad is good for some things, my ridiculously over-powered samsung phone is good for other things.

My first "tablet" was a nook color (hacked to run Cyanogen mod).

More recently (about 2 months ago), I bought a second generation Nexus 7, and it's a night and day difference.

// Quad core CPU and 2GB of ram. Stupidly powerful specs for a tablet.
 
2013-11-12 03:21:52 AM

JohnBigBootay: Pretty sure that people weren't saying the biggest company in history was "doomed".. I think they said something more like, "ha ha, the biggest company in history has these shiatty maps."


As an iPhone owner, that's what I said. Until I needed to use them....but I just downloaded the Google Maps app

My biggest complaint was the GIS software I use was using Google maps for the background and then with the switch I suddenly had much worse resolution with Apple maps.
 
kg
2013-11-12 03:29:14 AM
useless article.  everyone is aware of google maps app except for subby's gramma
 
2013-11-12 03:31:49 AM

JohnBigBootay: Pretty sure that people weren't saying the biggest company in history was "doomed".. I think they said something more like, "ha ha, the biggest company in history has these shiatty maps."


Actually, I was saying more like, "ha ha, people who shell out a 50% markup for a device with a logo of a piece of fruit on it have shiatty maps".
 
2013-11-12 03:41:54 AM

Mentat: So Apple users get one choice and they're happy with it?


No, they can use Google Maps if they want to. As usual, the iHater doesn't know what the f**k he's talking about.
 
2013-11-12 03:58:23 AM
"Apple's maps have turned out to be a hit with iPhone and iPad users in the US..."

www.reactiongifs.com
 
2013-11-12 04:04:00 AM
There's some things about each app that I like, and some bits that I don't.  I use them both, depending on the specific need.

I do like the new maps app in Maverick.  The 3D maps are surprisingly useful for explaining urban design issues to people.
 
2013-11-12 04:04:31 AM
The map app will stay in my 'not used' group folder where stocks, reminders, passbook, newstand, and weather also resides.

The only way that the map app would be 'used' is if my kid accidentally taps on an address somewhere. Perhaps they are registering those 'hits'

The map app is still pretty useless in HK.
 
2013-11-12 04:12:58 AM

Mentat: So Apple users get one choice and they're happy with it?


Apple doesn't sell a product. They sell a lifestyle. Steve Jobs was quite clear about this when he wasn't at the point in his life he was chillin' in the underground.

It's the reason Apple tries to promote it's products as trendy and chic, and why every one of their products follows the same design mentality. If you own an iPhone, they want you to use an iMac, or Macbook, or Apple TV, or iPad.
 
2013-11-12 04:24:22 AM
Apple's map app sucks ass.  Unfortunately for Google the new map app they released sucks double donkey dong ass.  Seriously craptastic, full of useless "features" and hard to navigate.  I want the old Google map app back.  Had everything I needed and was easy to use.
 
2013-11-12 04:34:11 AM
I haven't updated in two years. Not gonna, neither. I neeeeed google maps.
 
2013-11-12 04:56:11 AM

leviosaurus: Bah. Google and Apple aren't competing nearly as much as the tech media would love us to believe. Apple dominates the high end phone market, Android dominates the middle and low end. Apple isn't even bothering to compete below the top level.


Counterpoint:

Further counterpoint:

Let's compare the iPhone 5s with my phone, the HTC EVO 4G LTE, specifically in the area of CPUs.

My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"? Apple's entire business model is to sell hamstrung hardware with inferior specs at premium prices because they know that people will blindly give them money. They charge Bugatti Veyron prices for BMW Z3 hardware.

hardinparamedic: Mentat: So Apple users get one choice and they're happy with it?

Apple doesn't sell a product. They sell a lifestyle. Steve Jobs was quite clear about this when he wasn't at the point in his life he was chillin' in the underground.

It's the reason Apple tries to promote it's products as trendy and chic, and why every one of their products follows the same design mentality. If you own an iPhone, they want you to use an iMac, or Macbook, or Apple TV, or iPad.


Sadly, this is true. My brother has all of those things, and I think that my mom is slowly following suit. I am the only one left who hasn't become an iDrone. I've got one Android phone, a Kindle Fire, an HP Touchpad that I installed AOKP on and that I never use, an extremely old laptop that I also never use that has Linux, and my desktop computer with Windows 7 (which also doubles as my media/entertainment center, since my monitor is a 42 inch plasma TV). Gadgets aren't a lifestyle, dammit. They're tools, and occasionally they act as plumage for geek dick sizing contests.

doglover: I haven't updated in two years. Not gonna, neither. I neeeeed google maps.


Waze is pretty farking awesome, except when it refuses to reroute you around severe traffic bottlenecks on the Kennedy when you get off at Harlem and are trying to get to Fullerton.

/seriously, I don't care what you buy
//I just think that iPhones are a waste of money, considering what you're getting
///if Apple can release something that doesn't have worse specs than last year's flagship Android phones, I will revise my opinion
 
2013-11-12 04:58:00 AM
Fark ate my counterpoint image:

oyster.ignimgs.com
 
2013-11-12 05:04:30 AM

twat_waffle: My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"?


No offense, but processor speed and number of cores are poor comparisons of performance. Figure in battery life and # of instructions/clock cycle first.

/There are some V6es out there that get more HP than some V8s.
 
2013-11-12 05:08:23 AM

twat_waffle: I just think that iPhones are a waste of money, considering what you're getting


I'm at the point where if it wasn't for iCloud, I wouldn't be using apple products period. I ditched my macbook pro for a far more capable ultrabook that cost half of what it did when I bought it, and the only reason I keep using an iPhone is that I have too many professional apps on it.
 
2013-11-12 05:32:04 AM
Like i said when Apple Maps came out

It's good, if occasionally prone to mishaps, but hey at least Apple don't have to pay Google a stupid amount of cash for their services, and if they want it iPhone users can download google maps with turn by turn navigation if they want...so everyone wins.

One year on, and it turns out not everyone won...Google lost a fifth of their users, and google maps continues to get shiattier.

(have you even tried using google maps in safari on the iPhone/iPad, it's a horrendous confusing mess, that just doesn't work..and doesn't let you take the data from mobile view to classic view)
 
2013-11-12 05:33:30 AM

twat_waffle: Fark ate my counterpoint image:

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x444]

i.imgur.com

Quite possibly the most pretentious shiatty phrase Apple ever released.
 
2013-11-12 05:50:57 AM

GWSuperfan: twat_waffle: My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"?

No offense, but processor speed and number of cores are poor comparisons of performance. Figure in battery life and # of instructions/clock cycle first.


That's correct.  The true measure of performace is not core speed, but bogomips.
 
2013-11-12 06:01:19 AM

wax_on: Apple's map app sucks ass.  Unfortunately for Google the new map app they released sucks double donkey dong ass.  Seriously craptastic, full of useless "features" and hard to navigate.  I want the old Google map app back.  Had everything I needed and was easy to use.


Fix old, no new!
 
2013-11-12 06:11:19 AM
Google Maps "lost" because users are lazy and don't seem to mind not actually ending up at their destination.

Apple Maps is consistently wrong in central NC. Consistently laughably wrong.
 
2013-11-12 06:15:02 AM

GWSuperfan: twat_waffle: My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"?

No offense, but processor speed and number of cores are poor comparisons of performance. Figure in battery life and # of instructions/clock cycle first.

/There are some V6es out there that get more HP than some V8s.


And iOS7 made damn sure to turn any non latest device into a V12 with 5 HP and 0.05 MPG.
 
2013-11-12 06:19:52 AM

moel: Like i said when Apple Maps came out

It's good, if occasionally prone to mishaps, but hey at least Apple don't have to pay Google a stupid amount of cash for their services, and if they want it iPhone users can download google maps with turn by turn navigation if they want...so everyone wins.

One year on, and it turns out not everyone won...Google lost a fifth of their users, and google maps continues to get shiattier.

(have you even tried using google maps in safari on the iPhone/iPad, it's a horrendous confusing mess, that just doesn't work..and doesn't let you take the data from mobile view to classic view)


So I wonder how much of that savings was returned to the consumer...

Defending Apple for being frugal with wholesale services while Apple users continue to pay a stupid amount for their retail products.  How ironic.
 
2013-11-12 06:48:47 AM
No I don't remember how Apple was "doomed". I do remember how people were surprised Apple pulled a Microsoft and issued what is basically a beta as an official release then have it's paying customers be de facto beta testers. Part of Apple's success is they did not release stuff until it works correctly.
 
2013-11-12 07:00:42 AM
Everyone seems to be talking about "shiatty map/gps apps" I have no idea what that is.

/nokia maps/drive
 
db2
2013-11-12 07:11:10 AM
I don't have a problem with the map data; my problem is that Yelp sucks for local POI search.
 
2013-11-12 07:13:03 AM

jso2897: If a product is good, initially glitchy software won't stop people from using it.
Glitchy software can be fixed.


Now I know Obama's fark handle
 
2013-11-12 07:22:07 AM
What's funny is that when Google finally rolled out their own version of Apple's 3D maps, they were just as distorted, and nobody went retarded over it.

Google Maps 3D in NY:

cdn1.appleinsider.com

Apple Maps 3D in the same spot:

cdn1.appleinsider.com
Hurr, Durr, Google Maps!
 
2013-11-12 07:25:58 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Whichever side you're on, you'll get over it


No you can't be more wrong, clearly one side is a winner and we must argue it to the death.  Stupid.
 
2013-11-12 07:27:01 AM
They lost 23 million iPhone users?

Wow, how will Google survive, that's *almost* a full month of new Android activations.

Almost.
 
2013-11-12 07:41:11 AM

leviosaurus: By dropping map support for iPhones, Google spared itself from having to support the incredibly restrictive environment of the Apple app store, where requirements and rankings change at Apple's whim.


No, what happened is that Google wanted to stalk it's users 24/7 and Apple wouldn't let them.

Apple and Google's relationship broke down because Apple didn't feed Google information about which user made a particular data request. Google knew somebody was at a given position or requesting information about a given position but they didn't know who.

Unless Apple agreed to give Google access to information about who the users were, Google refused to provide things like street view data or turn by turn instructions, and let it be known they would not renew the existing data agreement when the existing contract was up.

That same year, Apple executives including Mr. Schiller sat down with Google executives, including Vic Gundotra, then a vice president in charge of Google's mobile apps, to renew the agreement over the iPhone's mapping app.

New tensions emerged when Apple grew concerned that Google was aggressively gathering data from the app, according to people familiar with Apple's thinking. Mr. Schiller worried it could compromise users' privacy, these people said.

Google executives felt Apple was unreasonable in insisting on controlling the look of the maps app and enabling only some of its features-like an "a la carte menu" where Google provided only the "back end" technology that powers it, according to a Google executive.

The two sides bickered over a Google Maps feature called Street View, which lets people see an actual photo as if they are standing in the street. Apple wanted to incorporate Street View on the iPhone just as Google already offered it for Android phones. Google initially withheld the feature, frustrating Apple executives, according to people on both sides of the debate.

Apple executives also wanted to include Google's turn-by-turn-navigation service in the iPhone-a feature popular with Android users because it lets people treat their phones as in-car GPS devices. Google wouldn't allow it, according to people on both sides. One of these people said Google viewed Apple's terms as unfair.

Google executives, meantime, also bristled at Apple's refusal to add features that would help Google. For instance, Google wanted to emphasize its brand name more prominently within the maps app. It also wanted Apple to enable its service designed to find friends nearby, dubbed Latitude, which Apple refrained from doing, said people on both sides.


If you notice, the current Google Maps app does require you to sign in to your Google account before they let you use it. That way they can stalk your every move.
 
2013-11-12 07:41:24 AM

Cormee: They lost 23 million iPhone users?

Wow, how will Google survive, that's *almost* a full month of new Android activations.

Almost.


And apple gained 23 million apple maps users!

/It's almost as if google maps was kicked off apple products and apple users were forced to use apple maps.
//derrhhh
 
2013-11-12 07:41:36 AM

gingerjet: bdub77: I doubt Google really gave a sh*t.

When your entire business model is based on selling you to advertisers - they care a little bit.

/but I'm sure their barges in the San Francisco bay will solve all those problems


All what problems? Nobody that wants to use google to place ads is going to change their mind over this.
 
2013-11-12 07:45:00 AM
I'd drop Google Maps for a decent off line map and navigation product. Nokia Ovi/Here was really good, about one of the last good apps on a Nokia before they switched OS. I wish Google would just create a decent offline solution.
 
2013-11-12 07:46:23 AM

Cormee: They lost 23 million iPhone users?

Wow, how will Google survive, that's *almost* a full month of new Android activations.

Almost.


The problem is they lost data from the valuable 18-28yo douche bag market.

/Don't get mad, I kid.
 
2013-11-12 07:49:41 AM

Mr.Tangent: The problem is they lost data from the valuable 18-28yo douche bag market.


Can't they just mine Instagram and Twitter for that data?
 
2013-11-12 07:49:56 AM

Masso: twat_waffle: Fark ate my counterpoint image:

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x444]
[i.imgur.com image 850x333]

Quite possibly the most pretentious shiatty phrase Apple ever released.


I wondered what happened to the guy who used to write J. Peterman's copy.
 
2013-11-12 07:50:10 AM

GWSuperfan: twat_waffle: My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"?

No offense, but processor speed and number of cores are poor comparisons of performance. Figure in battery life and # of instructions/clock cycle first.

/There are some V6es out there that get more HP than some V8s.


I have no idea where I can find benchmark scores for either phone in a format that is easy to compare. I was just looking at raw specs.

/at the risk of sounding like I'm moving goalposts, my phone still has a bigger screen and a kickstand.
//and the ability to sideload apps and remove bloatware (after rooting)
///did I mention the kickstand?
 
2013-11-12 07:54:10 AM

twat_waffle: GWSuperfan: twat_waffle: My phone, which was released almost a year and a half ago, boasts a 1.5 GHz dual core processor. The iPhone 5s, which was released at the end of September of this year, has a 1.3 GHz dual core processor. How is that "high end"?

No offense, but processor speed and number of cores are poor comparisons of performance. Figure in battery life and # of instructions/clock cycle first.

/There are some V6es out there that get more HP than some V8s.

I have no idea where I can find benchmark scores for either phone in a format that is easy to compare. I was just looking at raw specs.

/at the risk of sounding like I'm moving goalposts, my phone still has a bigger screen and a kickstand.
//and the ability to sideload apps and remove bloatware (after rooting)
///did I mention the kickstand?


Here you go:

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

It doesn't just get more work done at a lower speed, it' spanks the competition.
 
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