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(Independent)   95 years ago today, the entire world finally came to official, written agreement. Germany sucks and needs to stop starting dumb wars   (independent.co.uk) divider line 121
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1192 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2013 at 3:01 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-11 12:34:45 PM
I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.
 
2013-11-11 01:17:23 PM

DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.


I'm only half-way through WWI on my history reading, so use "spoiler" warnings. Anyway, I hope Germany loses and are disarmed and forced to pay massive reparations. Then the world can finally enjoy peace.
 
2013-11-11 01:19:09 PM

impaler: DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.

I'm only half-way through WWI on my history reading, so use "spoiler" warnings. Anyway, I hope Germany loses and are disarmed and forced to pay massive reparations. Then the world can finally enjoy peace.


Dude, you're gonna LOVE the ending. I'm telling you, some crazy shiat happens. But no spoilers.
 
2013-11-11 01:53:56 PM
Thanks, Obama
 
2013-11-11 02:19:39 PM
Obligatory:
http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6650094/facebook-news-feed-histor y -of-the-world-world-war-i-to-world-war-ii
 
2013-11-11 02:19:52 PM
Jeez, that must have been an awful war to fight in. I mean, obviously war is hell and it always sucks, but living in wet, disease infested trenches waiting for the call to wade through a muddy and barbed-wire wasteland under constant fire from enemy machine guns and artillery while watching countless of your fellow soldiers and friends die around you. All to gain a few hundred yards of ravaged terrain that will probably be lost again in a week.

So utterly pointless.
 
2013-11-11 02:23:02 PM
Hrm.. okay then, the link works, but Fark eats it.  So here it is, though I know the filter is going to throw in some unnecessary spaces because it just likes to be a dick:


 www.collegehumor.com/ article/6650094/ facebook-news-feed-history-of-the-world-world-war-i-to-world-war-ii
 
2013-11-11 02:49:18 PM

miss diminutive: Jeez, that must have been an awful war to fight in. I mean, obviously war is hell and it always sucks, but living in wet, disease infested trenches waiting for the call to wade through a muddy and barbed-wire wasteland under constant fire from enemy machine guns and artillery while watching countless of your fellow soldiers and friends die around you. All to gain a few hundred yards of ravaged terrain that will probably be lost again in a week.

So utterly pointless.


Read about the Gallipoli Campaign.  Apparently it sucked so much that the folks who survived said even the Somme Offensive wasn't as bad.
 
2013-11-11 03:04:01 PM

DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.


All that may have been true, but they didn't exactly fix any problems outside of Europe afterwards, they just caused new problems that we're still dealing with.
 
2013-11-11 03:07:07 PM
If anyone needed to pay reparations, it was Austria and Serbia. Whiny biatches hiding behind Germany and Russia and scurrying off when it looked like the war wouldn't last a few months as originally thought. Probably throw Romania under the railroad car for screwing up the offensive in Salonika too.

And don't get me STARTED on the Belgians!
 
2013-11-11 03:07:12 PM

DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.


So, the Serbs assassinating the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria really didn't have anything to do with it?
 
2013-11-11 03:08:22 PM

Chakro: So, the Serbs assassinating the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria really didn't have anything to do with it?


It was a proximate cause, but hardly a sufficient one. As I said in another thread:

1) Serbia itself didn't really do anything to start the war, unless you attribute the actions of the Black Hand to Serbia as a whole. And the Black Hand didn't really want to start a war either, as best I can tell. They just wanted to assassinate someone.

2) Serbia theoretically 'could' have stopped the war by giving into the Austrian ultimatum, but the ultimatum was designed to be unacceptable, so I find that rather unpersuasive.

3) Even if you grant Serbia started a war with Austria, that in no way required it to be a World War. The globalization of the war was not anything Serbia did.
 
2013-11-11 03:11:17 PM
Once all the Germans were warlike, and mean
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in 1918,
And they've hardly bothered us since then.
 
2013-11-11 03:13:18 PM
C'mon everyone, war jokes on Veteran's day? I find it to be a tet offensive.
 
2013-11-11 03:13:44 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: miss diminutive: Jeez, that must have been an awful war to fight in. I mean, obviously war is hell and it always sucks, but living in wet, disease infested trenches waiting for the call to wade through a muddy and barbed-wire wasteland under constant fire from enemy machine guns and artillery while watching countless of your fellow soldiers and friends die around you. All to gain a few hundred yards of ravaged terrain that will probably be lost again in a week.

So utterly pointless.

Read about the Gallipoli Campaign.  Apparently it sucked so much that the folks who survived said even the Somme Offensive wasn't as bad.


The diggers who served there eventually ended up having a better relationship with the mehmets on the other side of the lines than the idiot Pommy generals on their own side.  There's a quote from Ataturk at the Gallipoli memorial saying something along the lines of "Mothers, do not weep, for your sons now lie in friendly soil.  Having lost their lives here, they have become our sons as well."  I always thought that was a really classy gesture towards foreigners invading his homeland.

The Commonwealth troops really started kicking ass when they promoted their own generals instead of having to use incompetent Englishmen.  How the British forces didn't get annihilated instantly with leadership like Hunter-Weston, I don't know.
 
2013-11-11 03:21:00 PM
This is pretty funny

http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6650094/facebook-news-feed-histor y -of-the-world-world-war-i-to-world-war-ii
 
2013-11-11 03:25:23 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Read about the Gallipoli Campaign.


What little I know about it makes it sound like what could have happened at Normandy had Operation Cobra not broken out.

I'm still amazed at how long fear about FUSAG crippled the German response to the landings.
 
2013-11-11 03:26:39 PM
Every time someone whines about the French they should be forced to look at the KIA numbers of the French infantry. The Brits and the Frogs wasted lives like nothing seen since.
 
2013-11-11 03:27:14 PM

DamnYankees: Chakro: So, the Serbs assassinating the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria really didn't have anything to do with it?

It was a proximate cause, but hardly a sufficient one. As I said in another thread:

1) Serbia itself didn't really do anything to start the war, unless you attribute the actions of the Black Hand to Serbia as a whole. And the Black Hand didn't really want to start a war either, as best I can tell. They just wanted to assassinate someone.

2) Serbia theoretically 'could' have stopped the war by giving into the Austrian ultimatum, but the ultimatum was designed to be unacceptable, so I find that rather unpersuasive.

3) Even if you grant Serbia started a war with Austria, that in no way required it to be a World War. The globalization of the war was not anything Serbia did.


So, when a country's Chief of Military Intelligence along with others under his command assassinate the Archduke of another country you consider that an "approximate cause" and that "Serbia itself didn't really do anything to start the war". I have been educated.
 
2013-11-11 03:31:35 PM
Don't blame Serbs, Archduke asked himself to take him out
 
2013-11-11 03:31:55 PM
I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL
 
2013-11-11 03:33:03 PM

JonBuck: I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL


ALL, dammit. Preview is your friend...
 
2013-11-11 03:34:38 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: miss diminutive: Jeez, that must have been an awful war to fight in. I mean, obviously war is hell and it always sucks, but living in wet, disease infested trenches waiting for the call to wade through a muddy and barbed-wire wasteland under constant fire from enemy machine guns and artillery while watching countless of your fellow soldiers and friends die around you. All to gain a few hundred yards of ravaged terrain that will probably be lost again in a week.

So utterly pointless.

Read about the Gallipoli Campaign.  Apparently it sucked so much that the folks who survived said even the Somme Offensive wasn't as bad.


Same thing as the Civil War:the tactics were a generation behind the equipment.
 
2013-11-11 03:37:59 PM

JonBuck: I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL


Aha!  So it's Al's fault.
 
2013-11-11 03:39:21 PM

rjakobi: If anyone needed to pay reparations, it was Austria and Serbia. Whiny biatches hiding behind Germany and Russia and scurrying off when it looked like the war wouldn't last a few months as originally thought. Probably throw Romania under the railroad car for screwing up the offensive in Salonika too.

And don't get me STARTED on the Belgians!


Belgium is pretty much a non-country.
 
2013-11-11 03:39:41 PM

Chakro: So, when a country's Chief of Military Intelligence along with others under his command assassinate the Archduke of another country you consider that an "approximate cause" and that "Serbia itself didn't really do anything to start the war". I have been educated.


Glad to educate you.
 
2013-11-11 03:41:03 PM
And they turned the Armistice up to 11.
 
2013-11-11 03:41:36 PM

JonBuck: I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL


cache.vevo.com

Hey, he started it!
 
2013-11-11 03:41:48 PM
Lego_Addict:
Belgium is pretty much a non-country.

More or less, however they did manage to have some African colonies.
 
2013-11-11 03:43:45 PM

miss diminutive: Jeez, that must have been an awful war to fight in. I mean, obviously war is hell and it always sucks, but living in wet, disease infested trenches waiting for the call to wade through a muddy and barbed-wire wasteland under constant fire from enemy machine guns and artillery while watching countless of your fellow soldiers and friends die around you. All to gain a few hundred yards of ravaged terrain that will probably be lost again in a week.

So utterly pointless.


I saw articles about Gallipoli and the Battle of the Somme both in the last week (runup to Armistice Day?).  One of the things that they mentioned was that it's not just that your friends die around you, but they could lay dead in the mud just feet away in no-man's land for weeks on end, because enemy fire prevents you from recovering their bodies.  The only winners are the flies and mosquitoes, and the various germs they carry.
 
2013-11-11 03:44:33 PM
Submitter, you do realize that the Treaty of Versailles, designed to keep the Germans from starting those wars, is one of the major factors directly responsible for the rise of Adolf Hitler and WWII right?
 
2013-11-11 03:45:38 PM

hardinparamedic: Submitter, you do realize that the Treaty of Versailles, designed to keep the Germans from starting those wars, is one of the major factors directly responsible for the rise of Adolf Hitler and WWII right?


It's not the 95th anniversary of that, though.
 
2013-11-11 03:45:40 PM
At least we learned the most valuable lesson of World War I:

NEVER ASSASSINATE THE ARCHDUKE FERDINAND.

A mistake we'll never make again.
 
2013-11-11 03:48:08 PM
www.nndb.com
personal.ashland.edu
www.travelthepast.com

All agree. Germany is dumb.
 
2013-11-11 03:50:36 PM

JonBuck: I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL


I know it's controversial, but I don't think the designated hitter rule rises to the level of casus belli except for the most implacable of the traditionalists.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-11-11 03:54:22 PM
Why didn't they force all the hot german girls to emigrate?

gagg.exposedplanet.com
 
2013-11-11 03:54:58 PM

DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.


I've always thought of WW1 as an example of a global cataclysm that was the fault of many parties. The British, French, Russians, Italians, Austrians, etc all played a part in the alliance system and pattern of allegiances and rivalries that led to the war.

As opposed to WWII, where one side was clearly in the wrong and the other had its hand forced, WWI was the result of overly proud aristocrats and governmental officials on both sides pushing the world to war.

If you haven't read it, the guns of August by Barbara Tuchman is an awesome read on the beginnings and first month of the war.

A longer but equally good read (although a historical novel rather than actual history) is August 1914 by Aleksandr Solzhenitslyn.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-11-11 03:55:17 PM

JonBuck: I think the Onion actually captured how WWI started pretty well.

WAR DECLARED BY AL


content.answcdn.com
 
2013-11-11 03:56:33 PM
To blame WWI on Germany or the assassination of the Arch Duke is really simplistic and ignores the hundreds of years of constant war in Europe that preceded it.
 
2013-11-11 03:58:35 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I've always thought of WW1 as an example of a global cataclysm that was the fault of many parties.


I get that this is the CW on the war these days, but I can't help but look at each party and ask "what did they do to make the war happen? What more could they have done to stop it?" In each case, I find that the allied countries honestly did very little to make the war happen, and the central powers were the ones who had the power to stop it but didn't. It is true that the war happened as something of a chain reaction, but that doesn't mean every reaction in that chain was equally moral or equally reasonable.

Debeo Summa Credo: WWI was the result of overly proud aristocrats and governmental officials on both sides pushing the world to war.


IMO this is obviously true when it comes to the execution of the war; British and French military commanders were just as horrid and arrogant and disastrous as anyone else. But I don't see it that way when you think about the causes.

Debeo Summa Credo: If you haven't read it, the guns of August by Barbara Tuchman is an awesome read on the beginnings and first month of the war.


Yes, I've read it. She's always good.
 
2013-11-11 03:59:12 PM

MugzyBrown: To blame WWI on Germany or the assassination of the Arch Duke is really simplistic and ignores the hundreds of years of constant war in Europe that preceded it.


Well, its good that you've managed to accuse others of simplicity in a pithy, one sentence rebuke.
 
2013-11-11 03:59:41 PM

2wolves: Every time someone whines about the French they should be forced to look at the KIA numbers of the French infantry. The Brits and the Frogs wasted lives like nothing seen since.


Well, unless you count the Russians
 
2013-11-11 04:00:54 PM

DamnYankees: I'm on a bit of a WWI kick at the moment (Hardcore History just started what looks to be an awesome series on it), and the more I learn and read, the more you realize that, yeah, it pretty much was Germany's fault. There are obviously lots of factors and it was a chain reaction type event, but Germany had the power to stop it and just kept farking up.


I don't recall Germany having authority over the Emperor of Austria-Hungary, a diplomatic veto of Russia declaring war nor a backdoor treaty to stop France from joining in. A friend warned me Dan Carlin would do this to WWI.
 
2013-11-11 04:01:07 PM
th01.deviantart.net
 
2013-11-11 04:01:34 PM
o.onionstatic.com
 
2013-11-11 04:01:41 PM
personally i blame ww1 on obama
 
2013-11-11 04:01:49 PM
had family on both sides of the war of inbred cousins

what a mess

 
2013-11-11 04:02:23 PM
 
2013-11-11 04:02:46 PM

Darth Macho: I don't recall Germany having authority over the Emperor of Austria-Hungary


Well, recall it. If Germany had not given Austria a blank check, and refused to back an invasion, WWI probably doesn't happen. But they didn't do that.

Darth Macho: a diplomatic veto of Russia declaring war


Germany declared war on Russia, not vice versa.

Darth Macho: nor a backdoor treaty to stop France from joining in


Again, Germany invaded France. France didn't 'join' anything until they were invaded.

Darth Macho: A friend warned me Dan Carlin would do this to WWI.


What does that mean? Dan Carlin is awesome.
 
2013-11-11 04:04:09 PM

Lost Thought 00: 2wolves: Every time someone whines about the French they should be forced to look at the KIA numbers of the French infantry. The Brits and the Frogs wasted lives like nothing seen since.

Well, unless you count the Russians


Different war, but the scene in Stalingrad with the commisars manning a machine gun on their own troops in case they fled really drove that point home.
 
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