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(Washington Post)   Military bases are exclusive gated communities run by an utterly insane HOA   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 30
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12882 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2013 at 3:13 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-11 03:26:18 PM
4 votes:
edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.
2013-11-11 03:35:53 PM
3 votes:

Ennuipoet: edmo: Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

I too, grew up an AF Brat and then went Active Duty after high school.  When I finally left the fold the culture shock was amazing, in many ways I was like a kid leaving home for the first time.

I agree the military culture has grown too insular, self selecting from a specific cultural demographic, a small draft lottery would do wonders for the military AND civilians in the country.


Historically, the problem with using conscription as an equalizer has been that the affluent have had ways around it.

In the 19th century, it was outright legal and expected for the wealthy to pay somebody else to serve for them, or to just pay a fee to get out of conscription.   In the 20th century, it was student deferments.  Go to college and you couldn't go to war.  Combine that with people getting dodgy medical disqualifications for relatively minor problems.

As CCR sang about Senator's sons a few decades ago, the rich don't get shot at on the battlefield, and haven't been for a few centuries.  The World Wars were of such a scale that they had it to some degree, but generally speaking as soon as communications meant that the King didn't have to lead from the front, he and the rest of the gentry ran to the rear and stayed there.

I think part of the problem is that society loves to lionize the military, to treat them as heroes. . .but the vast majority of the US would never dare to serve themselves.

I sometimes wonder if the praise heaped upon the military is done with a dash of guilt of the "I couldn't bring myself to do it" variety.
2013-11-11 03:31:00 PM
3 votes:
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.  We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it.
2013-11-11 02:33:52 PM
3 votes:
That was a very good read. I'm a former AF brat and also served as an AF officer; all that stuff is right on. I didn't stay for a career but among my friends who did, it's odd how often they seem to wonder what's wrong with the civilian world. It really doesn't occur to them that THEY are the odd ones living in a different wonderland.

The reason for exchanges and commissaries was not that Walmart was more than 10 miles away; more like bases were often 30-60 minutes away from towns. People didn't have two cars then and Mom just drove dad in if she needed the vehicle; she didn't work of course. Pay and benefits were okay but not that great, nothing like today's. Pay for the enlisted troops was (and is) low.

The HOA comparison is pretty good, too. Early one May, I left my house surrounded by 30' high piles of snow to go on vacation. When I returned, there was a ticket on my door for not mowing the grass. Seems they had record warmth while I was gone, even beating normal summer temps, and it melted all the snow and there was my unmowed lawn. This type of "reasonable" is common on base and logical to the military mind.

I'm sure the military would never go the route suggested. They'll claim security needs. But aside form the main areas where weapons are or operational units, most of a given base has minimal security: a chain link fence and occasional police cruiser. In short, the security is less than the ruse the TSA puts us through at the airport.

Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?
2013-11-11 03:53:20 PM
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Navy brat here.

As early as junior high school, I recognized the effect that things like Exchanges and commissaries had on the quality of the community just outside military installations.   The further away you got from a base, the better the schools were, the better the whole damned place was.

We lived apart from the civilian world,psychologically, if not physically, and certainly did not contribute to the tax base.

That having been said, it was nice to have a small 7-11 sized commissary when we  lived in Egypt.


I'm an Air Force NCO, in my 12th year of active duty.

Military members, especially those for whom it's a 'family business," and have never really lived live as a civilian, have difficulty dealing with the civilian world.  Even if you didn't come from a military family, if you joined the military in your late teens or early twenties, your worldview will be different.

Most members of the military have never had a real job interview.  Most members of the military have never paid a medical bill.  Think about that, and a person like me in his early 30's relating to civilian friends, especially while I've had steady, stable employment without any real fear of layoffs or my company becoming insolvent.  Because they're able to afford it earlier, and have extensive community supports, many get married and start families earlier.

That's not to say it's all bad - military members (even an enlistee who joined the week after high school graduation) are groomed for leadership.  Classes in management are more or less mandatory - Airman Leadership School is usually between 4 and 5 years in.  Depending on the specialty, a 23 year old can easily manage a team of 5 or more.  A 30 year old may manage 30.  Many have never, and will never worry about a down payment for a house, as the VA guarantees the loans.  Most have never needed a cosigner to buy a new car.  Higher education is highly encouraged, with a strong emphasis on self-improvement.  Fitness is mandated, but with that are gyms, personal trainers, nutrition classes, etc. at little or no cost.

In a time when college costs are spiraling higher, student loan debt is a serious drag on the economy, employment is questionable, and Americans collective belt-lines are swelling like millions of pregnant ladies' ankles, the difference in culture and worldview is surprising if you never venture beyond (either direction) the fence line of the installation.  

I got married early, and as often happens, got divorced after a few years.  I just remarried this summer, and my wife has had little interaction with military culture.  Most of our friends are civilians, and the difference between our worlds can be stunning.  I'm still surprised to meet 25-30 year olds who are sort of listing around in delayed adolescence, sometimes even living at home still, working service industry jobs, with no real plan for the future.  I'm even more surprised to meet 30-somethings who aren't well established in a career.

My wife told me that she never thought she'd marry a military guy, and that I didn't match her stereotype at all.  My coworkers wonder why on earth I'd want to hang around with a bunch of slacker civilians who can't possibly understand us.  As bases have consolidated in large Joint Bases, and smaller installations have closed, particularly in higher cost-of-living areas  (i.e., the large coastal population centers), we will only become more insular, more cut off from the nation we supposedly represent.

We need to build better bridges, no doubt.  On a personal scale, it's easy.  On a national scale, I have no idea how it could be done.
2013-11-11 03:44:15 PM
2 votes:

the_innkeeper: Silly_Sot: edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.

BS. Compulsory service works fine elsewhere. The fact that we have no communal service severely hinders our cohesiveness as a nation. 

How many non-sequiters or reducto absurdums can you put in one post? You can transition to a partial professional force. There will be issues that come up, but this is normal. 

Throwing people together and making them function as a team is the main idea of boot camp. It might do our country some good to make people work together with someone "not from 'round here" for once in their life.

/Navy Vet


It's still going to be a pretty small, select group, because 75 percent of kids coming out of high school don't qualify to join the military. They're too fat, too dumb (yes), have chronic illnesses, or have criminal backgrounds. A draft would have some good effects, but it would hurt military effectiveness and waste a ton of money. Wars aren't fought by mass armies any more. Several European countries are getting rid of their conscription system and going to professional armies, because they've seen firsthand how much better the U.S. and U.K. soldiers are than their own. As long as you don't do something stupid like invade and occupy a large country, you don't need all those troops.
2013-11-11 03:38:34 PM
2 votes:
There used to be inspectors who were allowed in to your housing to see if you had the thermostat set correctly. This was during the early 80's when every base had an energy thermometer set up near the main gate. It showed how much energy the base was using this year as compared to the year prior. Every captain who ran the energy program tried to knock down consumption by 5%. I hated the one that decided we barracks dwellers only needed hot showers 3 weeks out of the month.

NCO Thing One had a hawt blonde wife who wore short shorts and tube tops. She got inspected weekly. NCO Thing Two's wife was a little 'advanced' and busy taking care of 4 kids. She might get inspected monthly.

Now everything is run by private contractors.
2013-11-11 03:31:14 PM
2 votes:
Former USCG brat.  The communities I grew up in were different than for the other 4 branches.  They were small towns.  Of the bases only Kodiak had any kind of separation between the base and town.  It was a whole 9 miles.

The civilian world has become too pussified.  The military needs to keep those chickenshiat influences far away.  It's bad enough to have hoplophobes all over the place without them having influence to the services.
2013-11-11 03:24:51 PM
2 votes:

edmo: Draft anyone?


Females only for the next tree wars.
The guys have already pulled their weight.

And mandatory abortions for anyone thinking that is a way out of it.

War is about killing.
Either you're going to kill and kill them all, or you're just dicking around.
Like in Pakistan.
2013-11-11 03:10:48 PM
2 votes:
 

edmo: Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?


I too, grew up an AF Brat and then went Active Duty after high school.  When I finally left the fold the culture shock was amazing, in many ways I was like a kid leaving home for the first time.

I agree the military culture has grown too insular, self selecting from a specific cultural demographic, a small draft lottery would do wonders for the military AND civilians in the country.
2013-11-11 07:57:07 PM
1 votes:

kevinfra: On one hand the military is conservative and  insular.  However, in a strange sort of a way, the military can be very liberal and cosmopolitan too.  While there are some military people who stay on base, there are many that go out and embrace the cultures of the areas where they're deployed.  I would venture a guess that the military probably has more mixed race marriages within the military than there are outside of the military.  Lots of military people are well educated (even the enlisted), and well traveled.


That's my take over 9+ years. The author in TFA is a little narrow minded.
2013-11-11 07:45:21 PM
1 votes:

Target Builder: The wire defines a similar divide in the United States. Inside, troops and their families live and work on massive military bases, separated geographically, socially and economically from the society they serve. Outside, Americans live and work, largely unaware of the service and sacrifice of the 2.4 million active and reserve troops.

What hell on earth does this service and sacrifice entail for the good folks deployed in the United States or in non-war zones?

children attend on-base schools. Military families shop at discounted grocery and department stores, see dedicated doctors and pharmacists, leave their children in military-subsidized child care, and play in base sports leagues. Many bases have their own golf courses, gyms and gas stations. Some have their own cemeteries, too.

Oh...


Being technically on duty 24/7.  Strict grooming requirements, physical fitness requirements, attire requirements, volunteer requirements, training requirements(to include weeklong drills where you have to wear chem/gear much of the time), [many if not all of the former require that you do all of these things outside of work, meaning on top of a full shift, which can easily be sustained at 12 hours a day 7 days a week) inability to go too far away from base, inability to quit, required to move where you're told and right when you're told(coupled with the inability to choose to do so when you're not told), limited ability to protest or talk to the press(seriously, this can reduce your pay or get you jailed), told what establishments they can/cannot go to(sometimes whole area's of town are off limits).

Military bases often get those perks as concessions for the crap they have to put up with on a regular basis.
2013-11-11 07:44:30 PM
1 votes:
Don't walk on the grass.
2013-11-11 07:36:09 PM
1 votes:

J3: Also for families that move around every 1-3 years it much simpler and comforting to integrate into a community of people in the same situation as you than having to keep trying to fit into neighborhoods of people who have lived in the same houses for decades.


This.  Base housing is a god-send for people getting constantly shifted.  A lot of civilian renters don't want people who may or not be there very long, or get deployed, etc.  In the end, a lot of people who move off-base end up in the shiathole rentals where the landlord is just happy they're not crackheads.

It's also secure.  Yeah, it's an excuse, but it's also a boon(for the service).  When 9/11 happened, bases got locked down, very little in and out.  People in base housing didn't have to go through a gate, it was a pool of people more or less at the ready, mission capable in other words.

Also, whoever wrote the article has no idea what they are talking about.  Many bases are at/near large cities, others are not.  The author wrote as if it was an absolute that they were remote places.

People don't wear their uniforms off base much because they don't like wearing a uniform 24/7.  That argument is like saying people would respect McDonalds workers, or construction/sewer workers more if they wore their uniform(aka work clothes) more while away from work.  Pure and total derp.

HOA, yeah.  No worse than having to shave your face every day and not look like a shiatbag(ie clean and unwrinkled uniform and clean if not shined boots).  It's an image/morale thing, not a status seeking holier than thou authoritarian thing.

Transition programs do kind of suck, but there is a lot available if one actually looks into it.  Making it mandatory training/counseling is sort of a waste.  Most people "go back home", not simply move off base.  That transition alone is enough to get it into most people's heads that it's not going to be like the service, and if it doesn't, training won't help those retards.

All in all, the article sucked balls.

/former AF

Bases were not so much insular as the article pretends.  Sure, your diehard lifers may not leave base much, but everyone else does.  The BX cannot beat walmart's variety or prices, you have one or two eateries on base and they get old quick as does chow hall food, even if it's "good".  Everyone but those die hard people that eat/breath/sleep in military fashion is dying to get off base and do something, be it the movies, shopping, eating, or enjoying other entertainment venues.

The only other groups that don't get off base much?  The poor, those fools who can't manage their money for shiat and are in debt up to their eyeballs, but hey, they have a really nice car, or the stingy, those that are frugal and refuse to spend more than absolutely necessary(who's primary descriptor is also usually a really nice car, just that more of it is paid for).  Also, new enlistees, who may start poor, but also have fun with dorm life.(that was me, until I saved for a car, then I was off base constantly)
2013-11-11 05:17:08 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: the_innkeeper: Silly_Sot: edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.

BS. Compulsory service works fine elsewhere. The fact that we have no communal service severely hinders our cohesiveness as a nation. 

How many non-sequiters or reducto absurdums can you put in one post? You can transition to a partial professional force. There will be issues that come up, but this is normal. 

Throwing people together and making them function as a team is the main idea of boot camp. It might do our country some good to make people work together with someone "not from 'round here" for once in their life.

/Navy Vet

It's still going to be a pretty small, select group, because 75 percent of kids coming out of high school don't qualify to join the military. They're too fat, too dumb (yes), have chronic illnesses, or have criminal backgrounds. A draft would have some good effects, but it would hurt military effectiveness and waste a ton of money. Wars aren't fought by mass armies any more. Several European countries are getting rid of their conscription system and going to professional armies, because they've seen firsthand how much better the U.S. and U.K. soldiers are than their own. As long as you don't do something stupid like invade and occupy a large country, you don't need all those troops.


The modern military is VERY picky. When I tried to enlist in the mid-90s, I aced my ASVABs, but the physical revealed I had very early stage psoriasis, basically dry skin kn my knees and elbows. The recruiter appealed it all the way up the chain, but they wouldn't budge even though I had high scores and was otherwise a good candidate for a technical field.
2013-11-11 04:55:24 PM
1 votes:

Milo Minderbinder:  The navy is another matter; most of their bases are in pretty sweet locales where you can actually live on the local economy, just not cheaply.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,
2013-11-11 03:55:18 PM
1 votes:

orclover: Sin_City_Superhero: nirwana: I'm a Marine Core Corpse Soldier, so I am getting a kick from these comments.

FTFY

You have been here long enough to know better.  Dont be that guy.


You didn't even notice that I intentionally mis-spelled my correction of his mis-spelling? It's a continuation of the previous joke. Or to put it another way...

exchangedownloads.smarttech.com
2013-11-11 03:53:02 PM
1 votes:
I like these comments.... It allows us to express our opinions and our solutions without ever actually owning up to them or doing anything about it

Stay shiny Fark. A toast to the lazy!
2013-11-11 03:50:59 PM
1 votes:
The lacking good information for the transition to civilian life is spot on.  I hire supervisors and managers, many, dare I say most of the resumes and applications I get from military folks are literally indecipherable.  Also they tend to show them to be following orders rather than initiating actions.

Most military folks resumes read like a to do list - ran this, was here, was a MIL8964-A in some country.  Also their skills are poorly listed and in military jargon, lots of abbreviations.  And if they were contractors in Afghanistan driving trucks, 130k.  Not likely for managing a warehouse and 8 people.

Civilian resumes ten to lean toward what they initiated and led

The transition group needs lots of work to guide these folks
2013-11-11 03:47:34 PM
1 votes:
Sorry, but a Lt. Gen doesn't have a clue about a 2-4 yr vet E-4/E-5's transitioning... he is so far removed from the dirt and grind of the service... time for him to get a consulting job with Boozers, Allen, and Haig & Haig pinch... (BAH!).

But seriously, a draft would not work now a days... we are way too late for that. What with overweight teen americans and assorted illegal drug usage... you wouldn't want them in the service. (let alone the criminal history issue)... it's not like 1939/1940 all over again... ( keep in mind way back when, a lot of young men were 4F due to malnutrition and other medical conditions exacerbated by the depression/ poverty/ lack of medical care whilst growing up in the '20's).

So, a lot of good 20-30 yr olds are ready for the economy to really recover ( not this fake B/S recession ended in June of 2009 crap!)... and for a real US Govt to get it together!

Hell, you want ACA navigators... who are not felons... there you go!
2013-11-11 03:44:09 PM
1 votes:

edmo: That was a very good read. I'm a former AF brat and also served as an AF officer; all that stuff is right on. I didn't stay for a career but among my friends who did, it's odd how often they seem to wonder what's wrong with the civilian world. It really doesn't occur to them that THEY are the odd ones living in a different wonderland.

The reason for exchanges and commissaries was not that Walmart was more than 10 miles away; more like bases were often 30-60 minutes away from towns. People didn't have two cars then and Mom just drove dad in if she needed the vehicle; she didn't work of course. Pay and benefits were okay but not that great, nothing like today's. Pay for the enlisted troops was (and is) low.

The HOA comparison is pretty good, too. Early one May, I left my house surrounded by 30' high piles of snow to go on vacation. When I returned, there was a ticket on my door for not mowing the grass. Seems they had record warmth while I was gone, even beating normal summer temps, and it melted all the snow and there was my unmowed lawn. This type of "reasonable" is common on base and logical to the military mind.

I'm sure the military would never go the route suggested. They'll claim security needs. But aside form the main areas where weapons are or operational units, most of a given base has minimal security: a chain link fence and occasional police cruiser. In short, the security is less than the ruse the TSA puts us through at the airport.

Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?


This anecdote made me smile. I too was in the AF. I was stationed for 6 years at Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls, MT. We would have snow three feet deep and then *BAM*, snow was gone in the morning. Something called Chinook Winds would come tearing up the Rockies from the south. The winds were stiff and the air warm. It was like Zeus turned on his hair dryer. It was easy for a foot or more of snow to be there when you went to bed and gone when you woke up. That's when the a-hole housing inspectors would go out and write up everybody that had dog shiat in their yard. It seemed that nobody liked to pick up dog crap when it is 3 degrees outside.
2013-11-11 03:40:54 PM
1 votes:

the_innkeeper: Silly_Sot: edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.

BS. Compulsory service works fine elsewhere. The fact that we have no communal service severely hinders our cohesiveness as a nation. 

How many non-sequiters or reducto absurdums can you put in one post? You can transition to a partial professional force. There will be issues that come up, but this is normal. 

Throwing people together and making them function as a team is the main idea of boot camp. It might do our country some good to make people work together with someone "not from 'round here" for once in their life.

/Navy Vet


The French had it until 2000.  It did nothing to integrate the north African minority.
Germany had it until just a few years ago.  it did nothing to integrate the Turkish minority.
The UK had it until 1960, but units were mostly organized around geographical subdivisions of the country. And there was a clear understanding that officers=upper class and enlisted=lower class.

Conscription is neither necessary nor sufficient for national unity.  Sometimes they go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
2013-11-11 03:37:06 PM
1 votes:
The civilian-military divide is mainly an Air Force and Army thing. The Navy is a much more broadening experience, because you travel to places where there are people who aren't trying to shoot you, and have a chance to mingle. And generally, Navy bases are in much more cosmopolitan places than Army and AF bases (because all the good stuff is near the water).
2013-11-11 03:36:28 PM
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: The military needs to keep those chickenshiat influences far away.  It's bad enough to have hoplophobes all over the place without them having influence to the services.


Yup - just like the best way to cure agoraphobia is to never go outside.
2013-11-11 03:33:26 PM
1 votes:
WARRIORS LANDSCAPING CODE
2013-11-11 03:33:21 PM
1 votes:

Silly_Sot: edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.


BS. Compulsory service works fine elsewhere. The fact that we have no communal service severely hinders our cohesiveness as a nation. 

How many non-sequiters or reducto absurdums can you put in one post? You can transition to a partial professional force. There will be issues that come up, but this is normal. 

Throwing people together and making them function as a team is the main idea of boot camp. It might do our country some good to make people work together with someone "not from 'round here" for once in their life.

/Navy Vet
2013-11-11 03:29:04 PM
1 votes:
Is there any other kind of HOA?
2013-11-11 03:28:30 PM
1 votes:
Navy brat here.

As early as junior high school, I recognized the effect that things like Exchanges and commissaries had on the quality of the community just outside military installations.   The further away you got from a base, the better the schools were, the better the whole damned place was.

We lived apart from the civilian world,psychologically, if not physically, and certainly did not contribute to the tax base.

That having been said, it was nice to have a small 7-11 sized commissary when we  lived in Egypt.
2013-11-11 03:13:27 PM
1 votes:

edmo: Draft anyone?


Yes please.

But as to TFA, I have NEVER lived on base in my ≈17 years.  The only time I would is if I were in a primo billet that came with a specific residence.  If you work with a group of people, why the hell would you want to live with them too?
2013-11-11 02:42:53 PM
1 votes:
Last time I checked, putting yourself on the list for post housing is voluntary (there's usually a massive waiting list), and I know a lot of people who prefer to life off-post in civilian rental properties for exactly the reasons listed.

Most of my friends who lived on post, hated it.  Besides the HOA from Hell rules, there's always the:

"The kids are doing stupid shiat in the barracks.  Call in one of the NCOs."
"Which one?"
"Well, they're SGT Jackson's troops, but he lives way out in BFE.  Oh, call SSG Smith, he lives on base."
 
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