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(Washington Post)   Military bases are exclusive gated communities run by an utterly insane HOA   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 108
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12882 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2013 at 3:13 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-11 03:55:08 PM

Smeggy Smurf: nirwana: I'm a Marine Core Soldier, so I am getting a kick from these comments.

Bullshiat.  I bet you flew F-16s off of Navy carriers


If people didn't teach their wives to type to begin with, these things wouldn't happen.
 
2013-11-11 03:55:18 PM

orclover: Sin_City_Superhero: nirwana: I'm a Marine Core Corpse Soldier, so I am getting a kick from these comments.

FTFY

You have been here long enough to know better.  Dont be that guy.


You didn't even notice that I intentionally mis-spelled my correction of his mis-spelling? It's a continuation of the previous joke. Or to put it another way...

exchangedownloads.smarttech.com
 
2013-11-11 03:55:51 PM
Commissaries were designed by military Preppers. The bases always had a ready supply of fresh food with a commissary.
 
2013-11-11 03:56:35 PM

DocPeabody: I like these comments.... It allows us to express our opinions and our solutions without ever actually owning up to them or doing anything about it



Speak for yourself.  I've made a point of going local everywhere I've ever been stationed.
 
2013-11-11 03:59:48 PM

GRCooper: Never served, but backpacked around the ETO a few summers in the 80's.

Wandering around Baumholder was a weird reverse culture shock after months of sleeping in hostels and park benches and eating baguettes and runny cheese.

Pulling honest to god USA legal tender out of my wallet to pay for a Whopper from an American teenager was, in a way, a little surreal.


Yay Baumholder!!! Home of the SS officers!!!

Anyway, the place has really changed and become significantly smaller since the 80s lol

/Live here (well... a little town off post but I am on post daily) and love all the history and Europe in general.
 
2013-11-11 04:03:00 PM
That was a stupid article

If they made those suggested changes, there would be all sorts of security risks and a couple hundred thousand complaints the day after the first rifle qualification.

They TRY and get people ready to go back to the world but honestly they try more to keep them in. It's up to the soldier to step up and ask for help.
 
2013-11-11 04:04:26 PM
Not to go off topic but, did they finally make it illegal for people who haven't served from acting like they did?

/I can't stand people that do that,  i.e. attending charities etc..
 
2013-11-11 04:05:03 PM

Izunbacol: We need to build better bridges, no doubt.  On a personal scale, it's easy.  On a national scale, I have no idea how it could be done.


The first thing you do is change the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act.  If you're on a posting more than 24 months in duration in the US, your legal residence is where you are stationed.  You pay property taxes, and the right to vote.  As a result, military people become stakeholders in their communities.

I think the next thing you do is scale back the exchange/commissary infrastructure.  It would be easy to come up with an equation to show where a subsidized retail environment is necessary.  I can tell you it's not needed in or around most Navy bases, where they are the biggest.

Culturally, it will never be homogeneous, but the structural and financial barriers to integration are plain stupid.
 
2013-11-11 04:05:58 PM
Smeggy Smurf

Bullshiat.  I bet you flew F-16s off of Navy carriers

Paging FLYNAVY to the thread.
 
2013-11-11 04:10:54 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: orclover: Sin_City_Superhero: nirwana: I'm a Marine Core Corpse Soldier, so I am getting a kick from these comments.

FTFY

You have been here long enough to know better.  Dont be that guy.

You didn't even notice that I intentionally mis-spelled my correction of his mis-spelling? It's a continuation of the previous joke. Or to put it another way...

[exchangedownloads.smarttech.com image 175x133]


Actually, it was a reference to an old farker that claimed to be a "marine core soldier". He also is the progenitor of "wife-like typing". So, the "whoosh" should be directed at yourself.

Sorry for your lack rotsky.
 
2013-11-11 04:13:53 PM

doyner: mbillips: As long as you don't do something stupid like invade and occupy a large country, you don't need all those troops.

You were doing so well right up to this point.


Hey, truth is truth. The light footprint relying on air power and special forces works GREAT for helping one side win a civil war, or bullying a rogue state into not genociding its minority populations. You want to do a "rebuilding Germany" job, though, you need a BUTTLOAD of ground pounders.

/Iraq vet
 
2013-11-11 04:14:10 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: orclover: Sin_City_Superhero: nirwana: I'm a Marine Core Corpse Soldier, so I am getting a kick from these comments.

FTFY

You have been here long enough to know better.  Dont be that guy.

You didn't even notice that I intentionally mis-spelled my correction of his mis-spelling? It's a continuation of the previous joke. Or to put it another way...

[exchangedownloads.smarttech.com image 175x133]


I will now commit seppuku with a spork in shame.
 
2013-11-11 04:14:24 PM

Babwa Wawa: Izunbacol: We need to build better bridges, no doubt.  On a personal scale, it's easy.  On a national scale, I have no idea how it could be done.

The first thing you do is change the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act.  If you're on a posting more than 24 months in duration in the US, your legal residence is where you are stationed.  You pay property taxes, and the right to vote.  As a result, military people become stakeholders in their communities.

I think the next thing you do is scale back the exchange/commissary infrastructure.  It would be easy to come up with an equation to show where a subsidized retail environment is necessary.  I can tell you it's not needed in or around most Navy bases, where they are the biggest.

Culturally, it will never be homogeneous, but the structural and financial barriers to integration are plain stupid.


My tiny reserve center has a Class 6. Where else can I get my cheap smokes and booze tax-free?

"Military Special" Bourbon for $7.99 in a plastic bottle? Check!
 
2013-11-11 04:15:48 PM

Silly_Sot: Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military


Who said anything about increasing the size of the military? One upside (and there are plenty of up and downsides) is you don't have to pay as much because you just grab people rather than recruit.

Silly_Sot: the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue


While I do not disagree, that is trivial compared to the price those who have returned to the war over and over have paid. My best buddy's step-kid now has PTSD after four deployments as a Marine. A real nice kid turned into a mess as of now. Perhaps he shouldn't have to bear all the burden?
 
2013-11-11 04:24:00 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Babwa Wawa: Izunbacol: We need to build better bridges, no doubt.  On a personal scale, it's easy.  On a national scale, I have no idea how it could be done.

The first thing you do is change the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act.  If you're on a posting more than 24 months in duration in the US, your legal residence is where you are stationed.  You pay property taxes, and the right to vote.  As a result, military people become stakeholders in their communities.

I think the next thing you do is scale back the exchange/commissary infrastructure.  It would be easy to come up with an equation to show where a subsidized retail environment is necessary.  I can tell you it's not needed in or around most Navy bases, where they are the biggest.

Culturally, it will never be homogeneous, but the structural and financial barriers to integration are plain stupid.

My tiny reserve center has a Class 6. Where else can I get my cheap smokes and booze tax-free?

"Military Special" Bourbon for $7.99 in a plastic bottle? Check!


I feel shame for buying that stuff, but it's really not bad! The bourbon and the gin are completely drinkable, especially for @ $12 for a handle. I'm a Reserve O-4 with 29 years in, so I should buy better booze, but your taste buds don't really work all that well after 50, anyway.
 
2013-11-11 04:40:11 PM

FrancoFile: The French had it until 2000.  It did nothing to integrate the north African minority.
Germany had it until just a few years ago.  it did nothing to integrate the Turkish minority.
The UK had it until 1960, but units were mostly organized around geographical subdivisions of the country. And there was a clear understanding that officers=upper class and enlisted=lower class.

Conscription is neither necessary nor sufficient for national unity.  Sometimes they go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.


I can't speak for the French, but I believe it is similar. The German conscription does nothing to integrate the Turkish minority for a few reasons. Up until 2000, few of the Turks residing in Germany were citizens. They were either Gastarbeiter or relatives of Gastarbeiter. Germany also doesn't allow non-citizens to serve AFAIK, though there was a push a few years back to open up enrollment to any legal German resident.
 
2013-11-11 04:40:39 PM

mbillips: Milo Minderbinder: Babwa Wawa: Izunbacol: We need to build better bridges, no doubt.  On a personal scale, it's easy.  On a national scale, I have no idea how it could be done.

The first thing you do is change the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act.  If you're on a posting more than 24 months in duration in the US, your legal residence is where you are stationed.  You pay property taxes, and the right to vote.  As a result, military people become stakeholders in their communities.

I think the next thing you do is scale back the exchange/commissary infrastructure.  It would be easy to come up with an equation to show where a subsidized retail environment is necessary.  I can tell you it's not needed in or around most Navy bases, where they are the biggest.

Culturally, it will never be homogeneous, but the structural and financial barriers to integration are plain stupid.

My tiny reserve center has a Class 6. Where else can I get my cheap smokes and booze tax-free?

"Military Special" Bourbon for $7.99 in a plastic bottle? Check!

I feel shame for buying that stuff, but it's really not bad! The bourbon and the gin are completely drinkable, especially for @ $12 for a handle. I'm a Reserve O-4 with 29 years in, so I should buy better booze, but your taste buds don't really work all that well after 50, anyway.


The whiskies and vodka aren't bad. The tequila tastes like a molested piñata and the rum worse.
 
2013-11-11 04:47:26 PM

edmo: Silly_Sot: Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military

Who said anything about increasing the size of the military? One upside (and there are plenty of up and downsides) is you don't have to pay as much because you just grab people rather than recruit.

Silly_Sot: the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue

While I do not disagree, that is trivial compared to the price those who have returned to the war over and over have paid. My best buddy's step-kid now has PTSD after four deployments as a Marine. A real nice kid turned into a mess as of now. Perhaps he shouldn't have to bear all the burden?


Is there a law of conservation here so that we could draft and send five kids and each ends up suffering from .2PTSD?
 
2013-11-11 04:50:51 PM

Koodz: edmo: Silly_Sot: Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military

Who said anything about increasing the size of the military? One upside (and there are plenty of up and downsides) is you don't have to pay as much because you just grab people rather than recruit.

Silly_Sot: the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue

While I do not disagree, that is trivial compared to the price those who have returned to the war over and over have paid. My best buddy's step-kid now has PTSD after four deployments as a Marine. A real nice kid turned into a mess as of now. Perhaps he shouldn't have to bear all the burden?

Is there a law of conservation here so that we could draft and send five kids and each ends up suffering from .2PTSD?


Did you know that Vatican City has 5 popes per square mile?
 
2013-11-11 04:55:24 PM

Milo Minderbinder:  The navy is another matter; most of their bases are in pretty sweet locales where you can actually live on the local economy, just not cheaply.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,
 
2013-11-11 04:57:31 PM

edmo: Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?


Yeah, nothing like slavery to solve a problem.
 
2013-11-11 04:57:54 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Koodz: edmo: Silly_Sot: Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military

Who said anything about increasing the size of the military? One upside (and there are plenty of up and downsides) is you don't have to pay as much because you just grab people rather than recruit.

Silly_Sot: the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue

While I do not disagree, that is trivial compared to the price those who have returned to the war over and over have paid. My best buddy's step-kid now has PTSD after four deployments as a Marine. A real nice kid turned into a mess as of now. Perhaps he shouldn't have to bear all the burden?

Is there a law of conservation here so that we could draft and send five kids and each ends up suffering from .2PTSD?

Did you know that Vatican City has 5 popes per square mile?


Just trying to wrap my head around "sharing the burden."

I realize for some people PTSD can be cumulative due to multiple tours, but others may break quickly. It is possible there is a better solution than "Continue the war, but send more kids."
 
2013-11-11 04:59:49 PM

Evil Mackerel: Not to go off topic but, did they finally make it illegal for people who haven't served from acting like they did?

/I can't stand people that do that,  i.e. attending charities etc..


They did, but SCOTUS struck it down. Free speech extends to lies.
 
2013-11-11 05:01:10 PM

Cortez the Killer: edmo: That was a very good read. I'm a former AF brat and also served as an AF officer; all that stuff is right on. I didn't stay for a career but among my friends who did, it's odd how often they seem to wonder what's wrong with the civilian world. It really doesn't occur to them that THEY are the odd ones living in a different wonderland.

The reason for exchanges and commissaries was not that Walmart was more than 10 miles away; more like bases were often 30-60 minutes away from towns. People didn't have two cars then and Mom just drove dad in if she needed the vehicle; she didn't work of course. Pay and benefits were okay but not that great, nothing like today's. Pay for the enlisted troops was (and is) low.

The HOA comparison is pretty good, too. Early one May, I left my house surrounded by 30' high piles of snow to go on vacation. When I returned, there was a ticket on my door for not mowing the grass. Seems they had record warmth while I was gone, even beating normal summer temps, and it melted all the snow and there was my unmowed lawn. This type of "reasonable" is common on base and logical to the military mind.

I'm sure the military would never go the route suggested. They'll claim security needs. But aside form the main areas where weapons are or operational units, most of a given base has minimal security: a chain link fence and occasional police cruiser. In short, the security is less than the ruse the TSA puts us through at the airport.

Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

This anecdote made me smile. I too was in the AF. I was stationed for 6 years at Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls, MT. We would have snow three feet deep and then *BAM*, snow was gone in the morning. Something called Chinook Winds would come tearing up the Rockies from the south. The winds were stiff and the air warm. It was like Zeus turned on his hair dryer. It was easy for a foot or more of snow to be there when you went to bed and gone when y ....


I'm not sure why you aren't friendied already, but I Likvre that song.

/He came dancing across the water, mon  Cortez, Cortez
//and all the women were beautiful
 
2013-11-11 05:04:14 PM

kudayta: Evil Mackerel: Not to go off topic but, did they finally make it illegal for people who haven't served from acting like they did?

/I can't stand people that do that,  i.e. attending charities etc..

They did, but SCOTUS struck it down. Free speech extends to lies.


Ah, thank you for the info.

IMO anyone caught doing that should be carted off to the front lines if only for a taste of what they are claiming.

/They would probably only get our own killed=(
(
 
2013-11-11 05:10:41 PM

the_innkeeper: Milo Minderbinder:  The navy is another matter; most of their bases are in pretty sweet locales where you can actually live on the local economy, just not cheaply.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,


Try walking from Fort Irwin to anywhere: you will end up dead in the desert. From Polk you end up in a swamp. From Bliss and Huachuca you end up in Mexico. My point was that naval bases are usually around population centers, unlike the Army, and lesser extent, Air Force. I'll find sweet civilian housing around San Diego, Norfolk and Honolulu. But I won't in Barstow, Leesville or Cochise County.
 
2013-11-11 05:11:48 PM

Silverstaff: Ennuipoet: edmo: Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

I too, grew up an AF Brat and then went Active Duty after high school.  When I finally left the fold the culture shock was amazing, in many ways I was like a kid leaving home for the first time.

I agree the military culture has grown too insular, self selecting from a specific cultural demographic, a small draft lottery would do wonders for the military AND civilians in the country.

Historically, the problem with using conscription as an equalizer has been that the affluent have had ways around it.

In the 19th century, it was outright legal and expected for the wealthy to pay somebody else to serve for them, or to just pay a fee to get out of conscription.   In the 20th century, it was student deferments.  Go to college and you couldn't go to war.  Combine that with people getting dodgy medical disqualifications for relatively minor problems.

As CCR sang about Senator's sons a few decades ago, the rich don't get shot at on the battlefield, and haven't been for a few centuries.  The World Wars were of such a scale that they had it to some degree, but generally speaking as soon as communications meant that the King didn't have to lead from the front, he and the rest of the gentry ran to the rear and stayed there.

I think part of the problem is that society loves to lionize the military, to treat them as heroes. . .but the vast majority of the US would never dare to serve themselves.

I sometimes wonder if the praise heaped upon the military is done with a dash of guilt of the "I couldn't bring myself to do it" variety.


IIRC, the rich cold still pay to get out well beyond the 19th, century, I want to say as late as the Viet Nam war a rich person could pay $10,000 and not serve if they got a draft notice.
 
2013-11-11 05:17:08 PM

mbillips: the_innkeeper: Silly_Sot: edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

Your "solution" is to artificially inflate the size of the military by imposing compulsory "service" during a period in which the country as a whole is already suffering from a great deal of national war fatigue, even though we have not had a legal war since 1945? Ah, I see, very cunning: The resulting public outrage and backlash will result in severe military funding cuts and massive reductions in force that will result in more military personnel having to become civilians and live out in the real world.
No "divide" will be bridged by forcing people to join the military. Instead, the "divide" will be expressed between the draftees and the Janissaries. The former were forced, essentially at gunpoint (threat of imprisonment counts as "at gunpoint"), the latter were born and bred to the task. Throwing them together will not create harmony unless you also intend to engineer a war as pervasive as WWII to go along with it.

BS. Compulsory service works fine elsewhere. The fact that we have no communal service severely hinders our cohesiveness as a nation. 

How many non-sequiters or reducto absurdums can you put in one post? You can transition to a partial professional force. There will be issues that come up, but this is normal. 

Throwing people together and making them function as a team is the main idea of boot camp. It might do our country some good to make people work together with someone "not from 'round here" for once in their life.

/Navy Vet

It's still going to be a pretty small, select group, because 75 percent of kids coming out of high school don't qualify to join the military. They're too fat, too dumb (yes), have chronic illnesses, or have criminal backgrounds. A draft would have some good effects, but it would hurt military effectiveness and waste a ton of money. Wars aren't fought by mass armies any more. Several European countries are getting rid of their conscription system and going to professional armies, because they've seen firsthand how much better the U.S. and U.K. soldiers are than their own. As long as you don't do something stupid like invade and occupy a large country, you don't need all those troops.


The modern military is VERY picky. When I tried to enlist in the mid-90s, I aced my ASVABs, but the physical revealed I had very early stage psoriasis, basically dry skin kn my knees and elbows. The recruiter appealed it all the way up the chain, but they wouldn't budge even though I had high scores and was otherwise a good candidate for a technical field.
 
2013-11-11 05:19:52 PM

Milo Minderbinder: the_innkeeper: Milo Minderbinder:  The navy is another matter; most of their bases are in pretty sweet locales where you can actually live on the local economy, just not cheaply.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,

Try walking from Fort Irwin to anywhere: you will end up dead in the desert. From Polk you end up in a swamp. From Bliss and Huachuca you end up in Mexico. My point was that naval bases are usually around population centers, unlike the Army, and lesser extent, Air Force. I'll find sweet civilian housing around San Diego, Norfolk and Honolulu. But I won't in Barstow, Leesville or Cochise County.


Fair enough. Been to Ft. Bliss, and Camp Mcgregor just north (well, 40 miles) of it. Yeah, they are in the boonies sometimes.
 
2013-11-11 05:23:04 PM

the_innkeeper: Milo Minderbinder: the_innkeeper: Milo Minderbinder:  The navy is another matter; most of their bases are in pretty sweet locales where you can actually live on the local economy, just not cheaply.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,

Try walking from Fort Irwin to anywhere: you will end up dead in the desert. From Polk you end up in a swamp. From Bliss and Huachuca you end up in Mexico. My point was that naval bases are usually around population centers, unlike the Army, and lesser extent, Air Force. I'll find sweet civilian housing around San Diego, Norfolk and Honolulu. But I won't in Barstow, Leesville or Cochise County.

Fair enough. Been to Ft. Bliss, and Camp Mcgregor just north (well, 40 miles) of it. Yeah, they are in the boonies sometimes.


I had to go to Polk for two weeks when that stupid Icelandic volcano canceled my Germany AT. When I asked for a good local off-post restaurant, I was directed to a Sonic 15 miles away.
 
2013-11-11 05:25:54 PM

the_innkeeper: Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,


While that's definitely true, it's primarily because the Navy has segregated their personnel from the community.

Why in the world with Norfolk invest in better policing, schools, public transport and amenities to serve a population that pays exactly zero taxes on whatever they want, can't vote in elections, and have absolutely no stake in the community?

The solution to this is to make it so that servicemembers need to enter the community for something other than drugs, payday loans, and usurious car loans.  Remove the NEX and you'll find entrepreneurs open up shop nearby.
 
2013-11-11 05:32:55 PM

J3: AF brat here, and I'm apparently one of the few voices here that would defend a lot of the issues with bases being their own little communities. In a couple of the towns we moved to military personal were nothing more than something to tax and use as a pawns instead of the locals since they would soon be moving on.

Most glaring example I ever saw: Need to bus white students to black schools 20 miles away to meet diversity goals? Ship the military kids, not our local voters who will be here longer than you.

Also for families that move around every 1-3 years it much simpler and comforting to integrate into a community of people in the same situation as you than having to keep trying to fit into neighborhoods of people who have lived in the same houses for decades.

There are a few good points raised (especially about transition programs), but that piece mainly read like a couple of officers who never had to ride a bike to the store or look for a inexpensive apartment with an open ended lease.


Valdosta, GA?
 
2013-11-11 05:41:10 PM

Babwa Wawa: the_innkeeper: Try walking from the pier to the "local" downtown. You are lucky if you aren't mugged, stabbed, raped and beaten on your way. Shipyards and their surrounding 'hoods are not the best or friendliest places on the planet. (See: NOB, VA and 32nd St in San Diego). It ain't much better elsewhere,

While that's definitely true, it's primarily because the Navy has segregated their personnel from the community.

Why in the world with Norfolk invest in better policing, schools, public transport and amenities to serve a population that pays exactly zero taxes on whatever they want, can't vote in elections, and have absolutely no stake in the community?

The solution to this is to make it so that servicemembers need to enter the community for something other than drugs, payday loans, and usurious car loans.  Remove the NEX and you'll find entrepreneurs open up shop nearby.


Now that the VAST majority of people live on the economy, its amazing how many reputable people open up shop right next to a Naval Station:

None.

Still have the greasy bars and the slimy used car lots all the way out until its too far to walk off base. 

It's a shipyard. It's industrial. No one worth anything has any business down there, since no one wants to run a business or live next to the docks.
 
2013-11-11 06:04:22 PM
edmo:Another way to bridge that divide is have more people serve. Draft anyone?

fark that noise. I guess it would finally be the motivation I need to leave this country
 
2013-11-11 06:23:40 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Former USCG brat.  The communities I grew up in were different than for the other 4 branches.  They were small towns.  Of the bases only Kodiak had any kind of separation between the base and town.  It was a whole 9 miles.

The civilian world has become too pussified.  The military needs to keep those chickenshiat influences far away.  It's bad enough to have hoplophobes all over the place without them having influence to the services.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-11-11 07:01:09 PM

RangerTaylor: vudukungfu: edmo: Draft anyone?

Females only for the next tree wars.
The guys have already pulled their weight.

And mandatory abortions for anyone thinking that is a way out of it.

War is about killing.
Either you're going to kill and kill them all, or you're just dicking around.
Like in Pakistan.

You seem intelligent and your opinions are well reasoned.  Even if you're trolling, this doesn't make any sense.


Yes, it does.
Ladies, you know how they treat women in Pakistan?
Allow us to indoctrinate you...
/FF three months of seeing what they do
Now, ladies, the guys that make this seem normal are Al Queda.
/FF three months of learning how to eviscerate, castrate, emasculate, and subjugate this enemy.
OK, ladies, we're ready to jump out of the airplane and burn some "bras"
Let's go.

Or was it the :Oh, no, you di'n't get knocked up just to avoid serving" part?
 
2013-11-11 07:01:20 PM
I spent 18 years living on base in the Marine Corpse childrens auxiliary (brat), then went in the Chair Farce for 11 years.   When I got out they stole my childhood.

No ID card = no visiting the hospital I was born in, school I went to, place of first kiss/fornication, houses I grew up in, neighborhoods I played in.

I have not past

/Sad Story
 
2013-11-11 07:19:48 PM
The wire defines a similar divide in the United States. Inside, troops and their families live and work on massive military bases, separated geographically, socially and economically from the society they serve. Outside, Americans live and work, largely unaware of the service and sacrifice of the 2.4 million active and reserve troops.

What hell on earth does this service and sacrifice entail for the good folks deployed in the United States or in non-war zones?

children attend on-base schools. Military families shop at discounted grocery and department stores, see dedicated doctors and pharmacists, leave their children in military-subsidized child care, and play in base sports leagues. Many bases have their own golf courses, gyms and gas stations. Some have their own cemeteries, too.

Oh...
 
2013-11-11 07:36:09 PM

J3: Also for families that move around every 1-3 years it much simpler and comforting to integrate into a community of people in the same situation as you than having to keep trying to fit into neighborhoods of people who have lived in the same houses for decades.


This.  Base housing is a god-send for people getting constantly shifted.  A lot of civilian renters don't want people who may or not be there very long, or get deployed, etc.  In the end, a lot of people who move off-base end up in the shiathole rentals where the landlord is just happy they're not crackheads.

It's also secure.  Yeah, it's an excuse, but it's also a boon(for the service).  When 9/11 happened, bases got locked down, very little in and out.  People in base housing didn't have to go through a gate, it was a pool of people more or less at the ready, mission capable in other words.

Also, whoever wrote the article has no idea what they are talking about.  Many bases are at/near large cities, others are not.  The author wrote as if it was an absolute that they were remote places.

People don't wear their uniforms off base much because they don't like wearing a uniform 24/7.  That argument is like saying people would respect McDonalds workers, or construction/sewer workers more if they wore their uniform(aka work clothes) more while away from work.  Pure and total derp.

HOA, yeah.  No worse than having to shave your face every day and not look like a shiatbag(ie clean and unwrinkled uniform and clean if not shined boots).  It's an image/morale thing, not a status seeking holier than thou authoritarian thing.

Transition programs do kind of suck, but there is a lot available if one actually looks into it.  Making it mandatory training/counseling is sort of a waste.  Most people "go back home", not simply move off base.  That transition alone is enough to get it into most people's heads that it's not going to be like the service, and if it doesn't, training won't help those retards.

All in all, the article sucked balls.

/former AF

Bases were not so much insular as the article pretends.  Sure, your diehard lifers may not leave base much, but everyone else does.  The BX cannot beat walmart's variety or prices, you have one or two eateries on base and they get old quick as does chow hall food, even if it's "good".  Everyone but those die hard people that eat/breath/sleep in military fashion is dying to get off base and do something, be it the movies, shopping, eating, or enjoying other entertainment venues.

The only other groups that don't get off base much?  The poor, those fools who can't manage their money for shiat and are in debt up to their eyeballs, but hey, they have a really nice car, or the stingy, those that are frugal and refuse to spend more than absolutely necessary(who's primary descriptor is also usually a really nice car, just that more of it is paid for).  Also, new enlistees, who may start poor, but also have fun with dorm life.(that was me, until I saved for a car, then I was off base constantly)
 
2013-11-11 07:44:23 PM

Milo Minderbinder:

I'll find sweet civilian housing around San Diego, Norfolk and Honolulu.


Sweet ? Sure. Affordable ? No f*cking way. Even if you're an E-5 you'll need a roommate or two. Low pay keeps people living on the ship
 
2013-11-11 07:44:30 PM
Don't walk on the grass.
 
2013-11-11 07:45:21 PM

Target Builder: The wire defines a similar divide in the United States. Inside, troops and their families live and work on massive military bases, separated geographically, socially and economically from the society they serve. Outside, Americans live and work, largely unaware of the service and sacrifice of the 2.4 million active and reserve troops.

What hell on earth does this service and sacrifice entail for the good folks deployed in the United States or in non-war zones?

children attend on-base schools. Military families shop at discounted grocery and department stores, see dedicated doctors and pharmacists, leave their children in military-subsidized child care, and play in base sports leagues. Many bases have their own golf courses, gyms and gas stations. Some have their own cemeteries, too.

Oh...


Being technically on duty 24/7.  Strict grooming requirements, physical fitness requirements, attire requirements, volunteer requirements, training requirements(to include weeklong drills where you have to wear chem/gear much of the time), [many if not all of the former require that you do all of these things outside of work, meaning on top of a full shift, which can easily be sustained at 12 hours a day 7 days a week) inability to go too far away from base, inability to quit, required to move where you're told and right when you're told(coupled with the inability to choose to do so when you're not told), limited ability to protest or talk to the press(seriously, this can reduce your pay or get you jailed), told what establishments they can/cannot go to(sometimes whole area's of town are off limits).

Military bases often get those perks as concessions for the crap they have to put up with on a regular basis.
 
2013-11-11 07:57:07 PM

kevinfra: On one hand the military is conservative and  insular.  However, in a strange sort of a way, the military can be very liberal and cosmopolitan too.  While there are some military people who stay on base, there are many that go out and embrace the cultures of the areas where they're deployed.  I would venture a guess that the military probably has more mixed race marriages within the military than there are outside of the military.  Lots of military people are well educated (even the enlisted), and well traveled.


That's my take over 9+ years. The author in TFA is a little narrow minded.
 
2013-11-11 08:30:52 PM

rkiller1: Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.  We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it.


...more importantly, those walls are WALL-X(tm) walls, designed in the USA and manufactured for $143 million per foot. Your service is merely incidental to that fact.

WALL-X(TM), for the ultimate in security.

/sad but true.
 
2013-11-11 09:00:03 PM

rkiller1: Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.  We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it.


You need a psychiatric evaluation.
 
2013-11-11 09:14:15 PM
A draft can be used for more than just military. Getting perspective for a couple years outside of your bubble is nothing but a good thing.
 
2013-11-11 09:35:07 PM

GORDON: A draft can be used for more than just military. Getting perspective for a couple years outside of your bubble is nothing but a good thing.


Perhaps a drafted version of the Civilian Conservation Corps or some other community service group...or maybe just mandatory service for a year or two in such an organization be the requirement for voting, welfare, federal student loans, etc....
 
2013-11-11 10:18:46 PM

RatMaster999: GORDON: A draft can be used for more than just military. Getting perspective for a couple years outside of your bubble is nothing but a good thing.

Perhaps a drafted version of the Civilian Conservation Corps or some other community service group...or maybe just mandatory service for a year or two in such an organization be the requirement for voting, welfare, federal student loans, etc....

Would you like to know more?

 
2013-11-11 11:22:07 PM

ace in your face: Sgt Otter: Last time I checked, putting yourself on the list for post housing is voluntary (there's usually a massive waiting list), and I know a lot of people who prefer to life off-post in civilian rental properties for exactly the reasons listed.

Most of my friends who lived on post, hated it.  Besides the HOA from Hell rules, there's always the:

"The kids are doing stupid shiat in the barracks.  Call in one of the NCOs."
"Which one?"
"Well, they're SGT Jackson's troops, but he lives way out in BFE.  Oh, call SSG Smith, he lives on base."

That isn't true abroad. Every enlisted person in the army under E7 has to live on post in Germany. It often doesnt even matter if you have a German wife.

Anyway, most of my friends wished they lived off post. I stay away from all the people who refuse to leave post, many of whom biatch that germany is boring even though the farthest they have been off post is 30 mins down the road to the next army base.


Is this a new policy?

I lived on a german army base in '04, and i knew a number of enlisted living off base.
 
2013-11-11 11:32:55 PM

mbillips: The civilian-military divide is mainly an Air Force and Army thing. The Navy is a much more broadening experience, because you travel to places where there are people who aren't trying to shoot you, and have a chance to mingle. And generally, Navy bases are in much more cosmopolitan places than Army and AF bases (because all the good stuff is near the water).


Funny you should say that.  Portland's boring and has a fleet week.  Meanwhile, last week I saw a Coast Guard vessel slowly threading it's way up the Arkansas River Navigation Channel towards the Tulsa Port of Catoosa, America's most inland seagoing port.  No idea why, and kind of wondering how far they had/are going to have to steam backwards in order to leave port, since I don't recall seeing a turning basin at Catoosa...
 
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