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(Chicago Trib)   Orland Park library will still allow computer users access to porn, but it will ensure that they must use their IDs to log into the system so no one under the age of 18 can access "adult websites." No word why they just don't censor all porn   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 70
    More: Fail, Orland Park, Bridget Bittman, public libraries  
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1325 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2013 at 12:40 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-11 12:05:28 PM
Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?
 
2013-11-11 12:29:19 PM

timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?


And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.
 
2013-11-11 12:42:46 PM
Because librarians dont all think alike on the issues of censorship and accepting funding.
 
2013-11-11 12:42:55 PM
Also no word as to why parents can't either supervise their children or teach them to MYOB, especially when it comes to looking over people's shoulders, which is what you have to do in order to see what's on the computer screen in the first place.
 
2013-11-11 12:43:11 PM
Because...freedom of information?
 
2013-11-11 12:43:20 PM

jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.


I see I'm not needed here.  While <b>subby</b> is in favor of blocking free access to knowledge, I'm glad to see others aren't.
 
2013-11-11 12:43:21 PM

jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.


Yeah, kind of like the fascists who get all mad if you type "Boobies" in their news aggregator website's comment box.
 
2013-11-11 12:43:27 PM
Because they have principles.
 
2013-11-11 12:43:55 PM
Because "Bookworm biatches" is on the librarian's bookmarks.
 
2013-11-11 12:44:41 PM

Gordon Bennett: Because they have principles.


Only the school library.
 
2013-11-11 12:45:02 PM

HMS_Blinkin: jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.

Yeah, kind of like the fascists who get all mad if you type "Boobies" in their news aggregator website's comment box.


A news aggregator is the exact same thing as a library.

/oh wait...
 
2013-11-11 12:45:20 PM
Because it's a great precedent to have libraries censor information.

/you don't have to burn the books, just remove them from the shelves....
 
2013-11-11 12:47:43 PM

jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.


Look, I can't be the only one sick and tired of Skrillex.
 
2013-11-11 12:48:36 PM
Aside from the moral question...

If you're looking at porn in the library, you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-11-11 12:50:12 PM

Jeecheroo: jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.

Look, I can't be the only one sick and tired of Skrillex.


"Bangarang" was also censored
 
2013-11-11 12:50:20 PM

HMS_Blinkin: jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.

Yeah, kind of like the fascists who get all mad if you type "Boobies" in their news aggregator website's comment box.


There are services that block this stuff quite well at the firewall level. It really is an easy filter that would not require library staff to get ramped up on anything.
 
2013-11-11 12:51:08 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Also no word as to why parents can't either supervise their children or teach them to MYOB, especially when it comes to looking over people's shoulders, which is what you have to do in order to see what's on the computer screen in the first place.


yeah. Me too. I'm getting tired of being yelled at by parents who's kids have no manners in the liberry, too.
 
2013-11-11 12:51:34 PM
vagabondsaint.files.wordpress.com
This thread needs more pictures of what librarians might look like.
 
2013-11-11 12:53:12 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Aside from the moral question...

If you're looking at porn in the library, you're doing it wrong.



Are they... finishing the act as well?

Because:

a.) That would be gross.
b.) What would be the point otherwise?
 
2013-11-11 12:53:59 PM
No word why they just don't censor all porn

No problem.  Just give us a list of all the porn on the interwebs.
 
2013-11-11 12:56:23 PM
I can't imagine enjoying that. It would be frustrating to watch while not being able to fap. But I don't want to speculate. I'm off to the library boys!

/for science
//and whores
 
2013-11-11 12:57:47 PM
Librarians claim they do not wantt o censor people, but they censor by ommission anytime. I have yet to find a library that stocks Bigguns!
 
2013-11-11 12:58:02 PM
MYOB and let that nice deshevled crazy person finish rubbing one out in the library!
 
2013-11-11 12:58:27 PM
Like all things American, it probably had something to do with a lawsuit. If some kid under 18 got caught wanking it at their library, the library could be implicated and sued for distributing porn to minors.
 
2013-11-11 01:00:06 PM
I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'
 
2013-11-11 01:00:28 PM
I'll always remember OP as the city with two huge shopping malls across the street from each other.  (And another one a few miles away.)

Them folks love them some shoppin'.
 
2013-11-11 01:00:39 PM

Jeecheroo: jake_lex: timujin: Because it's not their job to censor, but rather to provide access to information, even if that information is considered pornographic?

And also because porn filters often block stuff that's not actually porn.

And then you get into the whole mess of defining what "porn" is to apply a filter in the first place.  There are people who would probably want them to block anything that has the letters "s", "e", and "x" too close together.

Look, I can't be the only one sick and tired of Skrillex.


Yup. Mozart definitely won.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Au0xCg 3PI
 
2013-11-11 01:02:33 PM
If kids can't get porn at the library, where will they get the porn from?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-11 01:02:36 PM

Modified Wooden Paper Towel Holder: I can't imagine enjoying that. It would be frustrating to watch while not being able to fap. But I don't want to speculate. I'm off to the library boys!

/for science
//and whores


TomD9938: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Aside from the moral question...

If you're looking at porn in the library, you're doing it wrong.


Are they... finishing the act as well?

Because:

a.) That would be gross.
b.) What would be the point otherwise?


You can always print out the porn and take it to the washroom. Everyone has done this before... right?
 
2013-11-11 01:05:28 PM
So did someone come up with a definition of porn?
 
2013-11-11 01:06:06 PM

Modified Wooden Paper Towel Holder: I can't imagine enjoying that. It would be frustrating to watch while not being able to fap. But I don't want to speculate. I'm off to the library boys!

/for science
//and whores


That implies that you can't fap....people do.  If you want to Google for it, you can find lots of examples.  Both in the form of news articles talking about someone being arrested, or in the form of 'adult' websites that have videos of people doing it and recording it.  Don't ask how I know, but ya know....rule 34 and all.
 
2013-11-11 01:06:44 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'



That's a bingo.  I say censor the shiat out of library computers.
 
2013-11-11 01:07:43 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'


porn, no, but again, porn filters block information that isn't porn.

So, for instance, let's say you had a teenager doing research on cancer for a biology class, but who can't pull up anything having to do with "breast cancer" because of a porn filter.

Even though a library shouldn't block porn, there should still be indecency laws in place that would prosecute people who do actively browse it.  If a homeless guy, as in your example, is watching porn while kids are playing around him, he should go to jail for that.
 
2013-11-11 01:13:26 PM

reillan: Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'

porn, no, but again, porn filters block information that isn't porn.

So, for instance, let's say you had a teenager doing research on cancer for a biology class, but who can't pull up anything having to do with "breast cancer" because of a porn filter.

Even though a library shouldn't block porn, there should still be indecency laws in place that would prosecute people who do actively browse it.  If a homeless guy, as in your example, is watching porn while kids are playing around him, he should go to jail for that.



Go to jail for what?  He did nothing illegal.

Even if you have a policy that certain things are not allowed - then you need to police it.  Who's gonna be the bouncer?  Much easier to not have the stuff available that attracts undesirables.  Then they just don't come.
 
2013-11-11 01:14:01 PM
 
2013-11-11 01:15:44 PM
Since I've already told the "no masturbation in the library study rooms" story several times, here's another dandy from my years with the technical colleges.

My buds at the state networking office purchased Websense as the filtering software for the state technical colleges.  Before they rolled it out to the state they installed it at their offices, and the first thing they did was monitor what everyone was looking at for a month.

They said it was frikkin' unreal.  Old ladies surfing porn all day long.  They said they were so appalled that they couldn't look these people in the eye if they met them walking down the hall.  It wasn't the porn mind you, but the thought of these old ladies looking at it all day that creeped them out.

They also had a couple of all-day porn surfers they decided to fark with.  This one dude was surfing XXX porn, so they blocked those sites.  Then he started surfing softcore nudie sites...so they blocked those.  Then he started surfing lingerie sites...so they blocked those.  Then it was bikini sites.

At this point they walked by his office and casually informed him:  "you do know that we can see every website you visit, yes?"

The poor guy nearly had a coronary.  They said they'd never seen anyone go quite that shade of pale before.
 
2013-11-11 01:18:33 PM
In general, librarians don't really like to censor anything.

/librarian
 
2013-11-11 01:19:13 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'


Luckily, the standard isn't "what an anti-American facist thinks", but "what the First Amendment says". And a library will accept donations, so if you want Bigguns, donate them.
 
2013-11-11 01:20:12 PM
Just curious...would you be more embarrassed to inadvertently show porn on your work computer in a meeting with four same-level co-workers, or crank out an accidental monstrous fart in the same company?
 
2013-11-11 01:21:37 PM

queezyweezel: Because it's a great precedent to have libraries censor information.

/you don't have to burn the books, just remove them from the shelves....


The library is not your personal erotica site.
 
2013-11-11 01:24:23 PM

WhackingDay: In general, librarians don't really like to censor anything.

/librarian


Yup.

/librarian
 
2013-11-11 01:24:23 PM
If I am someone who researches sexuality and the impact pornography has on society I might want to, you know, actually research the availability and type of pornography that is prevalent...

Just a thought, it's only used for jacking 99.999% of the time.
 
2013-11-11 01:25:13 PM
Fano:The library is not your personal erotica site.

uh...actually my local library has an extensive collection of erotica.
 
2013-11-11 01:30:49 PM

reillan: Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'

porn, no, but again, porn filters block information that isn't porn.

So, for instance, let's say you had a teenager doing research on cancer for a biology class, but who can't pull up anything having to do with "breast cancer" because of a porn filter.

Even though a library shouldn't block porn, there should still be indecency laws in place that would prosecute people who do actively browse it.  If a homeless guy, as in your example, is watching porn while kids are playing around him, he should go to jail for that.


In theory - I agree 100%.

In practice - it's pretty tough.  Now you need libraries that are already pretty lightly staffed to police what people are doing on the internet.  And it brings with it the implication that whatever appears on the computer while I am in front of it, is something I've opened.

So, some high school kid visits a shady porn site and downloads some 'HotGirlsNude.jpg.exe' file.  Now the computer has malware that brings up pop-ups for porn sites.  That's not at all unheard of.  Some of you might say, 'Well Fark_Guy_Rob - they could block malware sites!' but that same argument applies to porn.  I've spent time surfing malware sites and downloading malware intentionally as part of school assignments or my own interests.  So we won't censor information....but that has risks.

So the dumb kid infects the machine.  The next day some 50 year old guy is trying to Google how to write a resume and gets a french porn site.  Then he gets arrested for violating indecency laws.  Reasonable people are thinking, 'Fark_Guy_Rob is being intentionally dense, people are smart.  The librarians would just....' but no, people aren't smart.  And no they wouldn't research the actions of the guy browsing the machine to show that he actually typed 'resume' and then the porn-pop-ups came.  Even if they had enough logging to tell the difference between a program launching a website and the guy typing it in (it's not trivial - I've automated a lot of web-browsing using testing frameworks designed to do exactly that, surf websites exactly the same as if the user were doing it).

EVEN if the libraries or local police *could* do these types of investigations - it would take a huge amount of resources and, if it involves the police, just being suspected of a crime is enough to get all sorts of people's lives ruined.  Elementary school principal gets arrested on an indecency charge that ends up being b.s......doesn't matter.  His career is ruined.

Then you've got people who are doing actual research that ISN'T inappropriate, but you've got a library filled with soccer Mom's who don't know the difference.  And THEY call the cops or the librarian and, it's basically the same deal all over again.  One person's horsebestiality videos are another veterinary student's equine reproduction video.

Again, in theory, I agree....censorship is bad.  But in practice....who exactly is out there doing 'research' on topics that might be considered porn-related that can't easily be handled by any half-way decent white-list filtering software?
 
2013-11-11 01:31:16 PM

Fano: queezyweezel: Because it's a great precedent to have libraries censor information.

/you don't have to burn the books, just remove them from the shelves....

The library is not your personal erotica site.


This is a COMPLETELY ACCURATE and true depiction of libraries. (NSFW)
 
2013-11-11 01:32:26 PM

Gunny Highway: WhackingDay: In general, librarians don't really like to censor anything.

/librarian

Yup.

/librarian


So why was this librarian so quick to call the cops on the folks trying to inform library patrons of what was going on? They played the 911 recording on the radio last week. She did not sound like a sane person.
 
2013-11-11 01:36:11 PM

Voiceofreason01: Fano:The library is not your personal erotica site.

uh...actually my local library has an extensive collection of erotica.


It's a collective collection of erotica.
 
2013-11-11 01:37:38 PM

Fano: Voiceofreason01: Fano:The library is not your personal erotica site.

uh...actually my local library has an extensive collection of erotica.

It's a collective collection of erotica.


I believe there's a word for that:  cumpilation.
 
2013-11-11 01:38:01 PM

bopis: So why was this librarian so quick to call the cops on the folks trying to inform library patrons of what was going on?


Not everyone is in lock step on the issue and it is still debated.  As far as I know, there are financial incentives in the form of funding for libraries that use filters.

Better answer:

bopis: She did not sound like a sane person.

 
2013-11-11 01:38:22 PM

phalamir: Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm really torn here....

Okay - I totally get and support the 'free speech' argument.  Why censor anything?  Information should be free and there is nothing wrong with porn.  Not at all.

But then you get the reality of situation....loads of homeless dudes watching porn for hours on end, junior high kids surfing porn, and weirdos who get-off on the idea of people watching them, while they watch porn.  In really extreme cases you have people downloading/viewing ILLEGAL porn at libraries either because they don't have access to it otherwise or because they think they are less likely to be caught there.

I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, REALLY hard for me to imagine a situation where I would say, 'Yup - that's a situation where pulling up porn at the library makes sense'

Luckily, the standard isn't "what an anti-American facist thinks", but "what the First Amendment says". And a library will accept donations, so if you want Bigguns, donate them.


I'm not even trying to argue....I just....don't understand your post at all.

Are you calling me an anti-American facist?
Are you implying that the First Amendment precludes libraries from banning porn?
 
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