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(Boston Herald)   Judge to ACLU: STFU   (bostonherald.com) divider line 170
    More: Amusing, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, ACLU, Tsarnaev, O'Toole, United States District Court  
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17930 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2013 at 12:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



170 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-11 12:42:25 PM  
LALALALALALA I can't hear you!
 
2013-11-11 12:43:55 PM  
Forming... SULFA CUT!
 
2013-11-11 12:44:44 PM  
Well that's one way to auutomatically kick your decision into the appellate court
 
2013-11-11 12:45:06 PM  
As much as Tsarnaev is a total douchebag/asshole/etc, he still has constitutional rights
 
2013-11-11 12:45:38 PM  
For a brief moment, I considered reading the comments on TFA, but thought better of it.

ITT: Reasoned debate on terrorism and due process
 
2013-11-11 12:45:50 PM  
Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family

so farking what??!! When I was going to jail I didn't have any of those things either. And I'm not a terrorist who tried to blow up innocents.

Quit whining you biatch. tens of thousands of prisoners in this country have the same deal. You aren't special or being tortured.

AND FARK YOU TOO ACLU. why don't you concentrate on something real?
 
2013-11-11 12:46:38 PM  

machoprogrammer: As much as Tsarnaev is a total douchebag/asshole/etc, he still has constitutional rights


Also this. I thought that, even though he is responsible for his actions, that it was the older sibling that pressured/coerced him into it.
 
2013-11-11 12:47:06 PM  
So he can be visited by his lawyer and immediate family, but he can't watch tv or radio.

I think that's a bit of a stretch to call that torture.
 
2013-11-11 12:47:55 PM  
Keyboard warriors hate competition
 
2013-11-11 12:48:06 PM  
And yet they still allowed Rolling Stone to fly him out to Los Angeles for his "fluffed and buffed" magazine cover shoot. What Amendment is that, huh?
 
2013-11-11 12:48:57 PM  

MrSplifferton: So he can be visited by his lawyer and immediate family, but he can't watch tv or radio.

I think that's a bit of a stretch to call that torture.


It's undeniably unusual and doesn't appear to have any basis other than as a purely punitive measure.
 
2013-11-11 12:49:10 PM  

Dirtybird971: Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family

so farking what??!! When I was going to jail I didn't have any of those things either. And I'm not a terrorist who tried to blow up innocents.

Quit whining you biatch. tens of thousands of prisoners in this country have the same deal. You aren't special or being tortured.

AND FARK YOU TOO ACLU. why don't you concentrate on something real?

 i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-11-11 12:49:39 PM  
ACLU says they're fighting for the accused's access to his lawyer. Has he in fact been denied this access? In the same article it says they're also fighting for more interaction with others since the only people he sees in solitary are his lawyers and immediate family.

Denying someone access to their lawyer is a very troubling thing, but its not clear that this has actually happened.
 
2013-11-11 12:50:00 PM  
"extraordinary and severe" restrictions they liken to "torture," including that Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family,

That's not torture.  This is torture.
resources2.news.com.au
 
2013-11-11 12:50:27 PM  
Wait, if you claim to be tortured after you commit the crime, wouldn't that serve as incentive not to commit the said crime. I'm confuzzled.
 
2013-11-11 12:51:09 PM  

Ex-Texan: Wait, if you claim to be tortured after you commit the crime, wouldn't that serve as incentive not to commit the said crime. I'm confuzzled.


He has committed no crime yet
 
2013-11-11 12:51:21 PM  
We are supposed to be the good guys, people. There's no way this guy is ever going to walk free so why do we need deny him anything other inmates get?
 
2013-11-11 12:51:24 PM  

pxlboy: For a brief moment, I considered reading the comments on TFA, but thought better of it.

ITT: Reasoned debate on terrorism and due process


Probably should have thought better about that too.  There is no reasoned debate anymore.
 
2013-11-11 12:51:25 PM  
In the ACLU's view Tsarnaev's Sixth Amendment right to a fair trial was being threatened by the conditions of his solitary confinement at the federal lockup at Fort Devens. -

Um...I don't think you want him in Gen Pop. There won't be any terrorist left for trial.
 
2013-11-11 12:52:16 PM  
Hang 'em and hang 'em high!

/ let him have the lawyer; it's not going to help him. No jury in the US would acquit him.
 
2013-11-11 12:52:39 PM  

Ex-Texan: Wait, if you claim to be tortured after you commit the crime, wouldn't that serve as incentive not to commit the said crime. I'm confuzzled.


Don't worry, your defective reasoning skills are shared with large swaths of this country.
 
2013-11-11 12:52:51 PM  

Dirtybird971: Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family

so farking what??!! When I was going to jail I didn't have any of those things either. And I'm not a terrorist who tried to blow up innocents.

Quit whining you biatch. tens of thousands of prisoners in this country have the same deal. You aren't special or being tortured.

AND FARK YOU TOO ACLU. why don't you concentrate on something real?


Not sure if trolling, but those prisoners you are talking about were tried and convicted first.

Tsarnaev still enjoys the presumption of innocence.
 
2013-11-11 12:53:09 PM  
When we take away someone's 6th amendment rights is amusing indeed.
 
2013-11-11 12:53:26 PM  

dabbletech: "extraordinary and severe" restrictions they liken to "torture," including that Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family,

That's not torture.  This is torture.


Thank you. The shiathead has three meals a day, access to his lawyer, and isn't being restrained other than solitary confinement. He's not being tortured. He's what we in the real world call "in jail."
 
2013-11-11 12:53:43 PM  
The dude is a major douchebag, but even douchebags have the right to a fair trial. It's what separates us from these animals.

Otherwise, we may as well bring back big fat hairy guys without shirts to wear black hoods and behead prisoners in the name of the King.
 
2013-11-11 12:54:37 PM  

Dirtybird971: AND FARK YOU TOO ACLU. why don't you concentrate on something real?


Like the civil liberties of the accused?
 
2013-11-11 12:54:52 PM  
Lost Thought 00:   Well that's one way to auutomatically kick your decision into the appellate court

I'm not so sure about that.  If I understand this correctly, the Court is simply saying - ACLU, you neither represent the bombing suspect nor the state, so why exactly are you filing a papers in this case and why should I have to listen to your arguments?

As such, how would you even have standing to appeal if you're not even in the case? How would this work?

However, I only deal with corporate law and try to stay away from courts, so I'm happy to defer to a litigator's learned opinion on this.
 
2013-11-11 12:55:10 PM  
People who have a problem with the ACLU should go live somewhere like Venezuela.
 
2013-11-11 12:55:38 PM  
I understand what he's been accused of but what has he been found guilty of by a trial of his peers?
 
2013-11-11 12:56:08 PM  

Bslim: We are supposed to be the good guys, people. There's no way this guy is ever going to walk free so why do we need deny him anything other inmates get?


Because we love to wet ourselves in fear like little children when dealing with terrorist, since we think they have magical powers and can escape supermax prisons. So it's a natural progression to act like children by being punitive when it's absolutely unnecessary.
 
2013-11-11 12:56:10 PM  
But, I was under thee impression that immediately converting a city into a militarized zone, complete with citywide curfews to help the cops even further, and taking liberties with prisoner treatment was just part of the territory with being "BAH-STIN STRAHN?"


Could've been worse. Imagine if he had been carrying Inignot or Ur images on a Lite Brite when he was apprehended.
 
2013-11-11 12:56:29 PM  

Ex-Texan: Wait, if you claim to be tortured after you commit the crime, wouldn't that serve as incentive not to commit the said crime. I'm confuzzled.


Not sure if trolling or stupid. I'm leaning towards stupid.

One look at Guantanamo will tell you that you don't have to have done anything criminal to be imprisoned, thrown into solitary, tortured, etc.

Not saying that Tsarnaev isn't a terrorist sh*tbag, but he's still a citizen. You want to take away his right to a trial, even though he will most certainly be found guilty, you open yourself up to that possibility.

We have a nation full of "it can't/won't happen to me" idiots cheering on the death of due process.
 
2013-11-11 12:57:20 PM  
steelwhitetable.org
 
2013-11-11 12:58:23 PM  
lohphat:

I understand what he's been accused of but what has he been found guilty of by a trial of his peers?


He's awaiting trial.  He hasn't been found guilty or innocent yet.
 
2013-11-11 12:58:55 PM  

MrSplifferton: So he can be visited by his lawyer and immediate family, but he can't watch tv or radio.

I think that's a bit of a stretch to call that torture.


My concern is that on appeal, it might  be found to have detracted from his ability to contribute to his own defense. This is a big case - all i's need to be dotted, and all t's crossed. Is there any good reason to deny him access to media? If they get cocky and do something stupid, this guy will get old and grey on death row while and endless series of appeals wend their way through the courts.
 
2013-11-11 12:59:07 PM  
This guy deserves the best possible defense of his case and we need to make sure that every constitutional right is protected, because that's what we do.

Then, once he's found guilty, we can throw him away.
 
2013-11-11 12:59:12 PM  

Shadi: When we take away someone's 6th amendment rights is amusing indeed.


"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have teh Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

Which part of that is he being denied?
 
2013-11-11 12:59:21 PM  

dabbletech: "extraordinary and severe" restrictions they liken to "torture," including that Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family,

That's not torture.  This is torture.
[resources2.news.com.au image 650x366]


upload.wikimedia.org
It's not torture when we do it!
 
2013-11-11 01:00:23 PM  

Reverend J: Bslim: We are supposed to be the good guys, people. There's no way this guy is ever going to walk free so why do we need deny him anything other inmates get?

Because we love to wet ourselves in fear like little children when dealing with terrorist, since we think they have magical powers and can escape supermax prisons. So it's a natural progression to act like children by being punitive when it's absolutely unnecessary.


This guy wasn't so much a terrorist as much as a gullible psychopath. His agenda was to cause mayhem because his brother had an axe to grind. Their was no structure behind this. It was lone nut convinces his brother to do horrible shiat.
 
2013-11-11 01:01:53 PM  

SirEattonHogg: lohphat:

I understand what he's been accused of but what has he been found guilty of by a trial of his peers?


He's awaiting trial.  He hasn't been found guilty or innocent yet.


Um...there's no such thing as being "found innocent" you're ALWAYS innocent until found guilty.
 
2013-11-11 01:02:51 PM  

Lost Thought 00: MrSplifferton: So he can be visited by his lawyer and immediate family, but he can't watch tv or radio.

I think that's a bit of a stretch to call that torture.

It's undeniably unusual and doesn't appear to have any basis other than as a purely punitive measure.


Do prison cells have individual tvs and radios? Its not like you can let the guy safely interact with other prisoners.

And the article sucks. It says the ACLU claims he doesn't have access to his lawyer, and then further down it says he can be visited by his lawyer or family. Which is it? Even if he doesn't have access it is absurd to call this torture, denied al of due process, sure.

but his solitary confinement could be more for his protection than punishment. At least he gets to keep his clothes on.
 
2013-11-11 01:02:53 PM  
It's okay to ignore your principles as long as you do it in the name of destroying somebody accused of attacking them. Apparently that also amuses some people.

The My Little Pony Killer: Which part of that is he being denied?


If you take five seconds to Google it you'll find all sorts of articles about the specifics of the dispute.
 
2013-11-11 01:03:04 PM  
While I know he has yet to be tried and convicted. I hope he and his broth burn in hell.
 
2013-11-11 01:04:08 PM  

stuffy: While I know he has yet to be tried and convicted. I hope he and his broth burn in hell.


mmmm...terrorist broth.....
 
2013-11-11 01:04:33 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Which part of that is he being denied?


Read other articles that the prison officials are requiring that they read everything the lawyer brings with them and takes out. In addition, the prosecutors are still withholding documents.
 
2013-11-11 01:05:27 PM  

machoprogrammer: As much as Tsarnaev is a total douchebag/asshole/etc, he still has constitutional rights


Tsarnaev's rights are not at issue.

The issue is whether the ACLU (a non-party) has any right to insert itself into this criminal case.

Judge says "no": "While there may be no positive rule forbidding it, in my judgment a trial court presiding over a criminal prosecution should not receive or consider volunteered submissions by non-parties except as may be specifically authorized by statute...or other authority."

Tsarnaev has either selected his own criminal lawyer, or has been appointed a public defender, as is his right.

The ACLU's interference may be vexing or confounding Tsarnaev's defense strategy -- which the ACLU has no right to do. The ACLU may also be creating hassles for the court or obstacles to the prosecution which may later be used as the basis for claiming a mistrial.

Regardless of your motives, you simply cannot jump into the middle of a trial, unbidden. Regardless of how compelling you find the trial, that doesn't make you a party to the proceedings.
 
2013-11-11 01:06:41 PM  
"Hero" tag on vacation, subby?

/fark tsarnaev
 
2013-11-11 01:06:58 PM  

skozlaw: It's okay to ignore your principles as long as you do it in the name of destroying somebody accused of attacking them. Apparently that also amuses some people.

The My Little Pony Killer: Which part of that is he being denied?

If you take five seconds to Google it you'll find all sorts of articles about the specifics of the dispute.


It only takes five seconds, yet you can't find it for me yourself?

Shadi: The My Little Pony Killer: Which part of that is he being denied?

Read other articles that the prison officials are requiring that they read everything the lawyer brings with them and takes out. In addition, the prosecutors are still withholding documents.


Oh no, they're reading his mail. Just like they do to other prisoners.
 
2013-11-11 01:08:36 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Ex-Texan: Wait, if you claim to be tortured after you commit the crime, wouldn't that serve as incentive not to commit the said crime. I'm confuzzled.

He has committed no crime yet


Correction- he hasn't been CONVICTED of the crime that was committed. Yet.

This isn't PRECOG territory here.  The crime has already been committed.
 
2013-11-11 01:08:58 PM  

pxlboy: We have a nation full of "it can't/won't happen to me" idiots cheering on the death of due process.


I read the article with the intention of being outraged at him being denied due process, until I read: "Tsarnaev is denied TV and radio, family photos, prayer with other inmates and visitation from anyone other than his lawyers and immediate family"

He's allowed to read, including legal documents, pray, and have visits from his lawyers and immediate family, and there is no mention of him being brutalized or starved That's pretty much all that he's necessarily entitled to. Every day they put between the bombing and his trial, is boosting his chance to avoid the death penalty just a little bit.
 
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