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(BBC)   Formula One cars create enough down force to drive upside down   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Cool  
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6259 clicks; posted to Video » on 11 Nov 2013 at 8:48 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-11-11 07:58:12 AM  
And yet I wonder why none of the teams have put their car in a wind tunnel on a platform that could be rotated so it is upside down - perhaps it really doesn't work like that
 
2013-11-11 08:02:02 AM  
I wish someone would just test it out, but it's theoretically possible, yet the cars are definitely worth several million pounds, so it might be understandable why they don't want to test it out.
 
2013-11-11 08:16:40 AM  
Wouldn't it be upforce then?
 
2013-11-11 09:06:13 AM  
Make with driving upside down in the tunnel already!

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-11 09:11:18 AM  
When a car rolls you get covered in the dust, cigarette butts, burger wrappers and half drank cups of coffee that builds up over time. Imagine Mark Webbers car.. that man is a dirtbag.
 
2013-11-11 09:15:51 AM  

wingnut396: Make with driving upside down in the tunnel already!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x263]


Let's Drive
 
2013-11-11 09:20:16 AM  
www.transoptions.org

Elvis isn't dead.  He just went home.
 
2013-11-11 09:26:42 AM  
this has been true for decades, i believe. very cool physics, though.
 
2013-11-11 09:30:08 AM  

Slaxl: I wish someone would just test it out, but it's theoretically possible, yet the cars are definitely worth several million pounds, so it might be understandable why they don't want to test it out.


Overcoming gravity on the car itself isn't enough to actually make it drive on the ceiling.
All the internal systems (oil, fuel, water, hydraulics) have gravity inverted on them as well.

The oil pump would be significantly less effective when all the oil is pooled in the top of the cylinder heads and not being recirculated.  At 16,000 RPM, I doubt you'd be able to complete the roll-over to the ceiling before the engine exploded.
 
2013-11-11 09:30:35 AM  
i830.photobucket.com
Unimpressed.
 
2013-11-11 10:13:05 AM  
www.usmilitariaforum.com

Greetings.

/Hot like a homoerotic volleyball game
 
2013-11-11 10:21:56 AM  

colinspooky: And yet I wonder why none of the teams have put their car in a wind tunnel on a platform that could be rotated so it is upside down - perhaps it really doesn't work like that


I'm pretty sure you start involving more things than aerodynamics at that point.  Like physics.

This is from a rather basically-educated standpoint, so correct me if I'm wrong.  But I don't think the air in a wind tunnel is stable enough to facilitate putting a car on the roof and leaving it there.  I think inertia and the actual effects of downforce being generated are what lends credence to the idea of a F1 car being able to stick to the roof.  It's kind of the same idea as race cars sticking to banking that they would immediately drop off of at a certain minimum speed or complete stop - gravity's coming into play sooner or later.
 
2013-11-11 10:22:41 AM  

TurboCojones: [www.usmilitariaforum.com image 466x267]

Greetings.

/Hot like a homoerotic volleyball game


Damn it, took too long on my last post.
 
2013-11-11 10:36:44 AM  

Clutch2013: colinspooky: And yet I wonder why none of the teams have put their car in a wind tunnel on a platform that could be rotated so it is upside down - perhaps it really doesn't work like that

I'm pretty sure you start involving more things than aerodynamics at that point.  Like physics.

This is from a rather basically-educated standpoint, so correct me if I'm wrong.  But I don't think the air in a wind tunnel is stable enough to facilitate putting a car on the roof and leaving it there.  I think inertia and the actual effects of downforce being generated are what lends credence to the idea of a F1 car being able to stick to the roof.  It's kind of the same idea as race cars sticking to banking that they would immediately drop off of at a certain minimum speed or complete stop - gravity's coming into play sooner or later.


Right, so, we need an exceptionally long circular bore tunnel with relatively flat surfaces, fully rebuilt ancillaries, and one brave driver.  KIMI !
 
2013-11-11 10:37:19 AM  

wingnut396: Make with driving upside down in the tunnel already!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x263]


*sniff* I loved that game so much. Always glad to find others that are also fans.

Also, I have always wondered why it is not possible to manipulate the air behind the car to make slip steaming more difficult or less effective. I am guessing that is a silly idea.
 
2013-11-11 10:49:41 AM  
I believed this, up until the point he showed an F1 car passing another F1 car.

It's not even April yet.
 
2013-11-11 10:58:04 AM  

colinspooky: Clutch2013: colinspooky: And yet I wonder why none of the teams have put their car in a wind tunnel on a platform that could be rotated so it is upside down - perhaps it really doesn't work like that

I'm pretty sure you start involving more things than aerodynamics at that point.  Like physics.

This is from a rather basically-educated standpoint, so correct me if I'm wrong.  But I don't think the air in a wind tunnel is stable enough to facilitate putting a car on the roof and leaving it there.  I think inertia and the actual effects of downforce being generated are what lends credence to the idea of a F1 car being able to stick to the roof.  It's kind of the same idea as race cars sticking to banking that they would immediately drop off of at a certain minimum speed or complete stop - gravity's coming into play sooner or later.

Right, so, we need an exceptionally long circular bore tunnel with relatively flat surfaces, fully rebuilt ancillaries, and one brave driver.  KIMI !


I'm sure if you got him just inebriated enough, he'd do it without a second thought.
 
2013-11-11 11:12:44 AM  

colinspooky: Clutch2013: colinspooky: And yet I wonder why none of the teams have put their car in a wind tunnel on a platform that could be rotated so it is upside down - perhaps it really doesn't work like that

I'm pretty sure you start involving more things than aerodynamics at that point.  Like physics.

This is from a rather basically-educated standpoint, so correct me if I'm wrong.  But I don't think the air in a wind tunnel is stable enough to facilitate putting a car on the roof and leaving it there.  I think inertia and the actual effects of downforce being generated are what lends credence to the idea of a F1 car being able to stick to the roof.  It's kind of the same idea as race cars sticking to banking that they would immediately drop off of at a certain minimum speed or complete stop - gravity's coming into play sooner or later.

Right, so, we need an exceptionally long circular bore tunnel with relatively flat surfaces, fully rebuilt ancillaries, and one brave driver.  KIMI !


Coulthard's are bigger:

grandprix247.com

/ And he's expendable
 
2013-11-11 11:38:59 AM  

Clutch2013: This is from a rather basically-educated standpoint, so correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think the air in a wind tunnel is stable enough to facilitate putting a car on the roof and leaving it there.


A wind tunnel is (supposed to be) the definition of stable (predictable) airflow. It wouldn't be useful for its job otherwise. Unless you're talking about coming up to and back down from speed, in which case:

You'd have to mount the car to the ceiling of the tunnel, but you need to do it in such a way that it would press itself into the ceiling at speed, but it could fall down and rest on the mount at lower speeds. It'd also have to have as little effect on the aero as little as possible. Maybe mounts attached through the flat bottoms of the sidepods and legality plank.
 
2013-11-11 11:49:01 AM  
The physics side is pretty simple. Produce more aerodynamic force than the weight of the car and it would stick upside down. Just as once the aerodynamic force on the wings of a plane is high enough it flies. One of the issues with a car is that it's designed to pull air from under to car to generate the downforce. So, if it fell just a bit when upside down it would likely loose some force and fall to the ground.

And the oil and fuel systems wouldn't work to well when upside down. So it would be an interesting wind tunnel trick I'm surprised nobody has done, but not exactly something you could do for real.
 
2013-11-11 11:57:47 AM  
Looking at the model, is that a Lotus car? Stepped nose and serrated fins on the sidepods?

Also,
farm6.staticflickr.com
wind tunnel.

/hot
 
2013-11-11 12:11:58 PM  
Dear ricers: Try this. All of you. A beer for the first one to do it and post it on YouTube. A 40 on the curb for the rest of you (and good riddance).
 
2013-11-11 12:15:34 PM  
I don't think he mentioned it but isn't one of the advantages of slipstreaming is that you use less fuel as well?
 
2013-11-11 12:23:19 PM  
This is news? Of course Formula 1 cars can drive upside-down.
 
2013-11-11 12:26:52 PM  
It is interesting how many of Jim Hall's theories (most of the sprung weight to the rear, movable flaps, air ducting, etc.) from decades ago are being worked out and used in modern F1 cars. More interesting is that each of his improvements was banned for one reason or another but is now a basic part of F1 design.

/SMH
 
2013-11-11 12:41:53 PM  

Ivo Shandor: is is news? Of course Formula 1 cars can drive upside-down.


Well played sir.
 
2013-11-11 01:44:36 PM  
Put your billion dollar car where you mouth is or shut the fark up engineers.  Do it, or shut up.
 
2013-11-11 02:13:34 PM  

Ivo Shandor: This is news? Of course Formula 1 cars can drive upside-down.


OK, that took me a second.. but then I snertled.
 
2013-11-11 03:09:34 PM  
I couldn't afford those Tyco Cliffhangers.. I had the radio Shack version that jumped off the track at every turn.
 
2013-11-11 03:13:51 PM  
When did F-1 get the "lawnmower" on the front end?
 
2013-11-11 03:18:48 PM  

tillerman35: Ivo Shandor: This is news? Of course Formula 1 cars can drive upside-down.

OK, that took me a second.. but then I snertled.


Took me more than a sec... we'll played
 
2013-11-11 06:33:21 PM  

Ivo Shandor: This is news? Of course Formula 1 cars can drive upside-down.

They can


http://trackmaniaforever.com/nations/
 
2013-11-11 08:29:55 PM  
It's all conjecture until there's a track with a corkscrew or loop.
 
2013-11-11 08:45:19 PM  

Foxxinnia: It's all conjecture until there's a track with a corkscrew or loop.


That wouldn't prove anything about aerodynamic down force; the centrifugal / centripetal force (take your pick) is enough to keep a car on the track through a loop.

/no joke this time - it's an actual video
 
2013-11-11 09:25:37 PM  
No mention on the science of the traction control system? I mean, the jerryrigged KERS system Vettel uses?
 
2013-11-11 10:44:41 PM  
so doooiiit
 
2013-11-12 12:55:45 AM  
The advantage of slipstreaming is generally outweighed by the disadvantage of dirty air.  When driving behind another car, the redirected air causes issues for the very finely-tuned aerodynamics of the car behind it. Generally this means they can't go as fast through turns and get left behind, too far to catch up in the straightaway using slipstreaming.

For a time people complained that Vettel would not be able to win from the middle of the pack because his car is set up to only run well in open air.  He's since destroyed that thinking.  Last year in a race he won from last or near-last place.
 
2013-11-12 01:34:44 AM  
Subby's mom generates a metric ton of downforce. Could she stick to the ceiling, too?
 
2013-11-12 01:37:36 AM  
I've heard this over and over. I believe it but I would love to see someone actually do it for real. Like a track that does a slow roll til the car is upside down. Redbull I'm looking at you :)
 
2013-11-12 02:20:24 AM  

freidog: Slaxl: I wish someone would just test it out, but it's theoretically possible, yet the cars are definitely worth several million pounds, so it might be understandable why they don't want to test it out.

Overcoming gravity on the car itself isn't enough to actually make it drive on the ceiling.
All the internal systems (oil, fuel, water, hydraulics) have gravity inverted on them as well.

The oil pump would be significantly less effective when all the oil is pooled in the top of the cylinder heads and not being recirculated.  At 16,000 RPM, I doubt you'd be able to complete the roll-over to the ceiling before the engine exploded.


True but may most of those thing can be reworked or maybe swaped out for some parts from Tesla as batteries and motors really don't mind being upside down. I know the battey may not be that lite but it dosen't have to go far just fast so the battery can be small.
 
2013-11-12 06:57:39 AM  
Upside down? Very possible but until I see an F1 car at Daytona or Talladega ......
 
2013-11-12 10:25:24 AM  
Actually: NO.

The down-force available in a large proportion of the tight international F1 corners is not sufficient to keep a car pinned to an upside-down track.   "Drive" is the wrong term.
 
2013-11-12 11:55:17 AM  
Somehow the idea of teaching physics to racing fans seems like a lost cause.

/b-b-b-but JUNIOR!!!!
 
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