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(Opposing Views)   Cop who responded to Newtown is still devastated, can't function, may get fired. "I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure"   (opposingviews.com) divider line 234
    More: Sad, Newtown, college town, Sandy Hook Elementary School, visual routine  
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9623 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Nov 2013 at 12:41 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-10 09:06:36 AM  
Devastated by the tragic event, Bean has been unable to perform his duties since then, and now faces losing his job.

That's usually how it works.  But not here in America, where statements like this make perfect sense to some people:

"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure,"

Because here in the US, you should paid to not work.  It's the American way.

He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.
 
2013-11-10 10:03:07 AM  

Lsherm: He also shouldn't be paid


AMERICA, fark YEAH! NO ONE GETS TAKEN CARE OF!
AMERICA, fark YEAH! ABANDON GRANDMA IN THE WOODS, YEAH!

filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com

Seriously though, of all the cops who should die penniless in a gutter, and there's more than a few but less than you'd think, this guy is pretty much last on the list. He saw shiat that would break you, and would probably not do my psyche any favors either. He, much more than asshole politicians like Cheney or Bush, deserves the perpetual support of the taxpayers. There's only one of him and he was broken by seeing the worst possibly thing * in the execution of his duties. This is what cops are supposed to do: sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's not always gonna be a physical trauma that gets 'em. We should do SOMETHING for those who actually deserve some help, like this guy, as a society. Again, halting payments to politicians with more than $5M in the bank is a good start for finding funding, too.

Sure, take him off the force. Stand him down. But we can find SOMETHING he can do. Maybe a nice petting zoo staff or a kitchen job or something.

*If you can think of something worse than kids killed for no reason, by all means share it with the class.
 
2013-11-10 10:31:03 AM  
Yeah i can't imagine why seeing a bunch of babies shot dead with military level firepower would seriously and permanently fark somebody up

Lsherm: He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.


Go fark yourself
 
2013-11-10 11:20:28 AM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Yeah i can't imagine why seeing a bunch of babies shot dead with military level firepower would seriously and permanently fark somebody up

Lsherm: He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.

Go fark yourself


Damn, and I thought you actually knew what you were talking about when it comes to guns.

Come back to the discussion when you've educated yourself and I MIGHT forgive you for the hyperbole.

/Oh, and let the guy retire with a full pension AND disability. I'm sure he'll still make himself beneficial to society by volunteering.
 
2013-11-10 11:32:24 AM  

iq_in_binary: Come back to the discussion when you've educated yourself and I MIGHT forgive you for the hyperbole.


What hyperbole.
 
2013-11-10 11:38:15 AM  
I wish all cops were this upset about the deaths of innocent people.
 
2013-11-10 11:44:26 AM  

Doktor_Zhivago: iq_in_binary: Come back to the discussion when you've educated yourself and I MIGHT forgive you for the hyperbole.

What hyperbole.


AR-15s aren't "military level firepower."

You do realize you can buy M16s right? They're on the civilian market.
 
2013-11-10 11:46:26 AM  

iq_in_binary: AR-15s aren't "military level firepower."

You do realize you can buy M16s right? They're on the civilian market.


I'm going to assume you're trolling and not just a grade A retard

The important thing about the massacre of babies in school is to get the exact nomenclature right.
 
2013-11-10 11:48:09 AM  

doglover: Lsherm: He also shouldn't be paid

AMERICA, fark YEAH! NO ONE GETS TAKEN CARE OF!
AMERICA, fark YEAH! ABANDON GRANDMA IN THE WOODS, YEAH!



Seriously though, of all the cops who should die penniless in a gutter, and there's more than a few but less than you'd think, this guy is pretty much last on the list. He saw shiat that would break you, and would probably not do my psyche any favors either. He, much more than asshole politicians like Cheney or Bush, deserves the perpetual support of the taxpayers. There's only one of him and he was broken by seeing the worst possibly thing * in the execution of his duties. This is what cops are supposed to do: sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's not always gonna be a physical trauma that gets 'em. We should do SOMETHING for those who actually deserve some help, like this guy, as a society. Again, halting payments to politicians with more than $5M in the bank is a good start for finding funding, too.

Sure, take him off the force. Stand him down. But we can find SOMETHING he can do. Maybe a nice petting zoo staff or a kitchen job or something.

*If you can think of something worse than kids killed for no reason, by all means share it with the class.


You know who I think deserves money for life? The parents.

I get that this cop was technically injured on the job, but paying him to do nothing is ridiculous. If he can't be a cop then he should try his hand at something else.
 
2013-11-10 11:49:36 AM  
Sad tag is appropriate.

bingethinker: I wish all cops were this upset about the deaths of innocent people.

The death of children is always going to affect someone on a deeper level than just about anything else.
 
2013-11-10 12:13:57 PM  

Lsherm:

I get that this cop was technically injured on the job, but paying him to do nothing is ridiculous. If he can't be a cop then he should try his hand at something else.


The guy had 12 years to stash away enough bribes and confiscated evidence to retire on. Clearly he wasn't serious about this cop thing.

Doktor_Zhivago: iq_in_binary: AR-15s aren't "military level firepower."

You do realize you can buy M16s right? They're on the civilian market.

I'm going to assume you're trolling and not just a grade A retard

The important thing about the massacre of babies in school is to get the exact nomenclature right.


They weren't babies they were unviable tissue masses.
 
2013-11-10 12:20:33 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: iq_in_binary: AR-15s aren't "military level firepower."

You do realize you can buy M16s right? They're on the civilian market.

I'm going to assume you're trolling and not just a grade A retard

The important thing about the massacre of babies in school is to get the exact nomenclature right.


Neither.

None of the victims were under 12 months of age either.

Words mean things. You do no service to your cause by relying on the demonizing effect of calling people baby killers for having beliefs opposed to yours to try and win arguments. Congratulations, you're now acting like fundamentalist Christians do in the abortion debate.

/zygotes aren't babies either
//and I'm pro gun control you moron, I'm the inside man. Gunsmith and Machinist, I currently make the molds that make the guns. Calling the most qualified expert on a given subject in a thread a moron is NOT the way you win arguments
 
2013-11-10 12:31:14 PM  
Oh I see this thread is off to a rousing start. Buh-bye.
 
2013-11-10 12:48:11 PM  

Lsherm: doglover: Lsherm: He also shouldn't be paid

AMERICA, fark YEAH! NO ONE GETS TAKEN CARE OF!
AMERICA, fark YEAH! ABANDON GRANDMA IN THE WOODS, YEAH!



Seriously though, of all the cops who should die penniless in a gutter, and there's more than a few but less than you'd think, this guy is pretty much last on the list. He saw shiat that would break you, and would probably not do my psyche any favors either. He, much more than asshole politicians like Cheney or Bush, deserves the perpetual support of the taxpayers. There's only one of him and he was broken by seeing the worst possibly thing * in the execution of his duties. This is what cops are supposed to do: sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's not always gonna be a physical trauma that gets 'em. We should do SOMETHING for those who actually deserve some help, like this guy, as a society. Again, halting payments to politicians with more than $5M in the bank is a good start for finding funding, too.

Sure, take him off the force. Stand him down. But we can find SOMETHING he can do. Maybe a nice petting zoo staff or a kitchen job or something.

*If you can think of something worse than kids killed for no reason, by all means share it with the class.

You know who I think deserves money for life? The parents.

I get that this cop was technically injured on the job, but paying him to do nothing is ridiculous. If he can't be a cop then he should try his hand at something else.


They should find him a desk job on the force he's able to do.

Failing that his training for a new career should be paid for, either from the police department or one of the charities that help injured emergency workers.

He can't perform his current job anymore but it's due to an Incudent that occurred on the job. He is, technically, suffering a workplace-related injury.
 
2013-11-10 12:48:35 PM  
Definitely not a member of the Greatest Generation.
 
2013-11-10 12:48:37 PM  
If they fire him now, he'll probably snap and go on a shooting spree.
 
2013-11-10 12:50:30 PM  
You signed up to Protect and Serve. No one forced you to.
 
2013-11-10 12:50:40 PM  

Lsherm: Devastated by the tragic event, Bean has been unable to perform his duties since then, and now faces losing his job.

That's usually how it works.  But not here in America, where statements like this make perfect sense to some people:

"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure,"

Because here in the US, you should paid to not work.  It's the American way.

He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.


Pretty much this. ^

He can still work, just not as a cop. This is why we have adult job retraining programs. He definitely deserves reassignment or retraining, but not a perpetual hand-out.

I'm sure there are many, many desk jobs available however should he choose to remain in his profession.
 
2013-11-10 12:50:47 PM  
"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure," police union attorney Brown told WCBS 880′s Fran Schneidau. "He's legitimately worried about financial devastation."

If he had two years to work out the PSTD with some help, then move on and let him find another job.

Why should police be special in this regard.  It is quite clear the role of 'peace officer' is not about serving the public interest.  And they knew what they were signing up for.  If someone can't be a [insert random job here] anymore then we don't ask that question for them.

Let's break this myth that police are heroes and deserve special treatment in their social role, that has also changed over the last 15 years.
 
2013-11-10 12:50:49 PM  

Lsherm: Devastated by the tragic event, Bean has been unable to perform his duties since then, and now faces losing his job.

That's usually how it works.  But not here in America, where statements like this make perfect sense to some people:

"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure,"

Because here in the US, you should paid to not work.  It's the American way.

He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.



What an unbelievable asshole you must be.
 
2013-11-10 12:52:23 PM  
I came here after only twenty posts and was about to put something about the Tea Partiers being upset about the cop being put on welfare and how he should just toughen up and get over it.

Little did I know that the derp would start on the very Boobies.
 
2013-11-10 12:55:03 PM  
mokinokaro
They should find him a desk job on the force he's able to do.
Failing that his training for a new career should be paid for, either from the police department or one of the charities that help injured emergency workers.
He can't perform his current job anymore but it's due to an Incudent that occurred on the job. He is, technically, suffering a workplace-related injury.


LIke disability, something a person in any other profession would have access to?

\You mean a cop does not have his own bootstraps like people in other jobs?
 
2013-11-10 12:55:23 PM  

Lsherm: Devastated by the tragic event, Bean has been unable to perform his duties since then, and now faces losing his job.

That's usually how it works.  But not here in America, where statements like this make perfect sense to some people:

"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure,"

Because here in the US, you should paid to not work.  It's the American way.

He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.


I hate cops and I even find this cold, man.
 
2013-11-10 12:56:28 PM  
Fark has failed today.

Trolling a PTSD story? Really?

/I know, "welcome to fark"
/find a better hobby
 
2013-11-10 12:57:20 PM  
whizbangthedirtfarmer:

Little did I know that the derp would start on the very Boobies.

HA.

Aren't police supposed to be mentally prepared for tragedy?  I was near a tragedy once, can I retire with a pension?
 
2013-11-10 12:58:45 PM  
He should just get over it, move on, and not let if affect him anymore, right? I mean, isn't that pretty much the answer that anyone who hasn't suffered horrible traumatic events tell those who have? Man up, Nancy!

/PTSD
//hear that all the time
 
2013-11-10 12:59:21 PM  

TripSixes: whizbangthedirtfarmer:

Little did I know that the derp would start on the very Boobies.

HA.

Aren't police supposed to be mentally prepared for tragedy?  I was near a tragedy once, can I retire with a pension?


Aww, you're cute. Are you 14 or 16?
 
2013-11-10 12:59:45 PM  
In this thread: frank and open expressions of sociopathy
 
2013-11-10 12:59:47 PM  

Lsherm: He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.


Ignoring the rest of your post for now, the Newtown shooting happened less than 11 months ago.
 
2013-11-10 01:00:01 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Yeah i can't imagine why seeing a bunch of babies shot dead with military level firepower would seriously and permanently fark somebody up

Lsherm: He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.

Go fark yourself


Oh look it's another alcolyte of St. Trayvonus of the Holy Skittle. Why don't you come back when you know what you're talking about Nancy Grace? Here to parade dead kindergarteners around again because your dad touched you when you were a kid?
 
2013-11-10 01:00:24 PM  
dave2198
Fark has failed today.
Trolling a PTSD story? Really?
/I know, "welcome to fark"
/find a better hobby


If a third shift 7/11 worker gets shot or a construction worker has concrete noggin fall on his skull, we generally think 'That sucks, part of the risk of the job'. But a cop can't handle the emotional load of the job he signed up for and is given two years to work it out.

But I can mail you a tissue if you want one.
 
2013-11-10 01:01:59 PM  
When in the course of fulfilling a position an event occurs which impairs the ability to fulfill the position and is not your fault via negligence, support still has to be given. This is what happens when dangers exist in a position and fulfilling a position exposes one to those dangers; the employer needs to assume responsibility for exposure. No different if a soldier returns from a war zone without a limb or with mental health concerns. No different if a worker suffers an injury due to faulty machinery. No different if an officer cannot function as an officer because he did his part years ago. Cannot bear to assume responsibility for exposure? Don't expose.

iq_in_binary: //and I'm pro gun control you moron, I'm the inside man. Gunsmith and Machinist, I currently make the molds that make the guns. Calling the most qualified expert on a given subject in a thread a moron is NOT the way you win arguments


How does being a gunsmith and machinist make you qualified to speak on pro gun control? Or do you mean the prior argument about AR-15s not being military level firepower? Because being the AR-15 is the basis of the M16, does this not mean AR-15s are military level firepower? The major difference, as far as I understand, is selective firing in the M16 whereas the AR-15s are restricted to semi-automatic. The fully automatic fire does not make the M16 drastically more deadly because, again as far as I understand, the purpose of fully automatic fire is primarily suppression.

Seems to me saying this is a military rifle would be wrong, but saying this is military level firepower is not wrong because the term is rather general.
 
2013-11-10 01:02:33 PM  
There were other police there, right? Should they all get to retire immediately will full benefits? Not saying this guy did not see some bad shiat, but so did a lot of other people working that day. Perhaps this special snowflake should have taken a job that did not have the possibilty of bad stuff happening
 
2013-11-10 01:03:11 PM  
Gotta call B.S.  Cops see blood and gore all the time, so I doubt this one instance is going to damage him for life.  More likely he was coming undone anyway and he is just using the notoriety of this event to justify his flaking out.  I know a few guys, mostly ex-military, abusing the disability system and so perhaps I am sensitive to it.  True story, I know a farking tennis instructor that is getting full disability from the military.  He still plays in tournaments, but supposedly is too physically broken down to serve in the military anymore.
 
2013-11-10 01:04:05 PM  
They should at least try to find him a nice, safe desk job somewhere. Like evidence lock-up or quartermaster or something else that's quiet.
 
2013-11-10 01:04:35 PM  

Enemabag Jones: dave2198
Fark has failed today.
Trolling a PTSD story? Really?
/I know, "welcome to fark"
/find a better hobby

If a third shift 7/11 worker gets shot or a construction worker has concrete noggin fall on his skull, we generally think 'That sucks, part of the risk of the job'. But a cop can't handle the emotional load of the job he signed up for and is given two years to work it out.

But I can mail you a tissue if you want one.


If you don't understand what it's like to walk in on a room full of dead children, you can just say "I don't understand."

You don't need to mask your ignorance with bravado and general asshole-ishness.

/better get to the gymn, you only have 25 1/2 minutes left
 
2013-11-10 01:04:38 PM  

Lsherm: Devastated by the tragic event, Bean has been unable to perform his duties since then, and now faces losing his job.

That's usually how it works.  But not here in America, where statements like this make perfect sense to some people:

"I think the town is hesitant about actually terminating him, but at the same token they're not taking any steps to make sure that he's financially secure,"

Because here in the US, you should paid to not work.  It's the American way.

He's had two years to work his issues out, and if he can't, he shouldn't be a cop anymore.  He also shouldn't be paid to be a professional patient, either.


this
the other cops are going on with their jobs, coroners in large cities sees goddanm dead kids everyday and they are able to do their jobs. he can't do his job, he needs to move on
 
2013-11-10 01:05:11 PM  

Enemabag Jones:  is given two years to work it out.


Again, it's been less than 11 months.
 
2013-11-10 01:05:39 PM  
This is why you buy disability insurance

/on top of what he probably gets through work
 
2013-11-10 01:06:55 PM  
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-10 01:07:00 PM  
So unlike most if not all people here, I actually know the Police captain from the town over that was called over to help.  There is information not made public in terms of how the kids were lined up, the damage done to their bodies from the weapons, that if known would no doubt change the perspective of the mental trauma the first responders saw.

While cops go into the line of work knowing the risk involved there needs to be compassion from society when the events they experience falls far outside the extreme.  I don't want anyone to have a free ride but at the same time our future society will judge us based on how we treat people.  If this cop needs support than he needs support, remove him from the force if needed but don't make him into a homeless just because of a sick person's action that could of been stopped if previous years worth of laws and actions never occurred.  No I am not talking about the removal of the assualt rifle ban, I'm more focused on the gutting of public mental health in the 80s.

Also anyone saying the damage done to their bodies was nothing is neither a knowledged gun owner\shooter nor experienced enough to make those statements.
 
2013-11-10 01:08:09 PM  
Pedantic retards and what ever the f*ck that idiot talking about treyvonius even is

Christ on a cracker..


This is why i don't come to the main page often
 
2013-11-10 01:09:54 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: There were other police there, right? Should they all get to retire immediately will full benefits?


Let us use the obvious analogy of a physical injury. While many workers may have used the piece of equipment, and while many workers may be around the piece of equipment when malfunctioning, not all of them will suffer physical injury or even to the same extent. One worker may be paralyzed while others walk away unscathed, and simple proximity does not mean we treat each worker identical and therefore say all are fine. The same may be said of psychological events. No one will be affected the same way, and no one quite knows how those events will affect them until in the midst of said events.

This is an injury on the job. Provide mental health services and allow for retraining and reassignment as able.
 
2013-11-10 01:10:00 PM  

dazed420: So unlike most if not all people here, I actually know the Police captain from the town over that was called over to help.  There is information not made public in terms of how the kids were lined up, the damage done to their bodies from the weapons, that if known would no doubt change the perspective of the mental trauma the first responders saw.

While cops go into the line of work knowing the risk involved there needs to be compassion from society when the events they experience falls far outside the extreme.  I don't want anyone to have a free ride but at the same time our future society will judge us based on how we treat people.  If this cop needs support than he needs support, remove him from the force if needed but don't make him into a homeless just because of a sick person's action that could of been stopped if previous years worth of laws and actions never occurred.  No I am not talking about the removal of the assualt rifle ban, I'm more focused on the gutting of public mental health in the 80s.

Also anyone saying the damage done to their bodies was nothing is neither a knowledged gun owner\shooter nor experienced enough to make those statements.


Wait... a calm, rational post that details a workable solution, free of derp?

What are you doing on Fark? ;)

/tips hat
 
2013-11-10 01:11:13 PM  

mokinokaro: Lsherm: doglover: Lsherm: He also shouldn't be paid

AMERICA, fark YEAH! NO ONE GETS TAKEN CARE OF!
AMERICA, fark YEAH! ABANDON GRANDMA IN THE WOODS, YEAH!



Seriously though, of all the cops who should die penniless in a gutter, and there's more than a few but less than you'd think, this guy is pretty much last on the list. He saw shiat that would break you, and would probably not do my psyche any favors either. He, much more than asshole politicians like Cheney or Bush, deserves the perpetual support of the taxpayers. There's only one of him and he was broken by seeing the worst possibly thing * in the execution of his duties. This is what cops are supposed to do: sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's not always gonna be a physical trauma that gets 'em. We should do SOMETHING for those who actually deserve some help, like this guy, as a society. Again, halting payments to politicians with more than $5M in the bank is a good start for finding funding, too.

Sure, take him off the force. Stand him down. But we can find SOMETHING he can do. Maybe a nice petting zoo staff or a kitchen job or something.

*If you can think of something worse than kids killed for no reason, by all means share it with the class.

You know who I think deserves money for life? The parents.

I get that this cop was technically injured on the job, but paying him to do nothing is ridiculous. If he can't be a cop then he should try his hand at something else.

They should find him a desk job on the force he's able to do.

Failing that his training for a new career should be paid for, either from the police department or one of the charities that help injured emergency workers.

He can't perform his current job anymore but it's due to an Incudent that occurred on the job. He is, technically, suffering a workplace-related injury.


The sticky point on filing for workmans comp is that he was off-duty and came in to help when he heard the news. I could easily see some asshole at the workmans comp office denying his claim because of that.
 
2013-11-10 01:11:35 PM  

Enemabag Jones: If a third shift 7/11 worker gets shot or a construction worker has concrete noggin fall on his skull, we generally think 'That sucks, part of the risk of the job'.


Uh, no, people with even a shred of humanity don't think any such thing. There's no way that getting shot as a minimum wage convenience store worker is just 'part of the risk'. It's a major failure on the part of the employer to provide adequate workplace security and/or hazard pay if that really is a legitimate job-site risk. As to the latter, the mere possibility of a construction worker getting hit by falling _anything_ is a major failure on the part of the foreman or site owner to provide suitably safe working conditions.

You're thinking Kowloon City, the libertarian paradise of the 70s, where anything went as far as health and safety regulations were concerned.
 
2013-11-10 01:11:46 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago:
 I'm going to assume you're trolling and not just a grade A retard
The important thing about the massacre of babies in school is to get the exact nomenclature right.



Then why did you bring it up in the first place? You really needed to add "with military level firepower" to a statement about the horror of murdered children?

Doktor_Zhivago: Go fark yourself

Doktor_Zhivago: a grade A retard

Oh, I guess with that mentality, yes you did.
 
2013-11-10 01:11:46 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: There were other police there, right? Should they all get to retire immediately will full benefits?

I

f they've also suffered debilitating PTSD, then yes of course.

If a cop was shot in the spine and paralyzed in the line of duty, then no one here would question whether he should be able to retire with a pension. Well, this guy suffered a debilitating injury in the line of duty, every bit as much as a cop who gets shot.

For some reason, this country doesn't regard mental health issues as being as serious or legitimate as physical health, when the reality is that mental health is as essential to functioning as physical health. You can't just "man up and shake off" PTSD any more than you can cancer..

And it's because we don't take mental health as seriously as we should that we have so many troubled young men who go on shooting sprees.
 
2013-11-10 01:13:50 PM  
I really feel for him, I hope SSD, which covers mental disabilities, helps cover him, though I really think it should probably fall under workers comp more than anything else.. I can only imagine how much of a train wreck I'd be if I saw something that terrible, probably for the rest of my life. I know two years sounds like a long time, but I have family who have returned from wars and struggled with PTSD for a good decade or two before getting on a somewhat functional course, so I really would like to just not put down some arbitrary timeline... he'll hopefully heal in his own time.
 
2013-11-10 01:14:42 PM  
Hooray! Gun derail of a murdered children thread!
 
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