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(Spiegel)   "Paranoid democracies act in hysterical ways out of fear. They are characterized by a strong freedom myth, which leads to paranoia. It, in turn, poses a threat to freedom. The United States is currently in a late phase of this cycle"   (spiegel.de) divider line 119
    More: Ironic, United States, political freedom, democracies act, Islamist terrorists, Israeli television, liberal democracy, Holocaust survivors, democracy  
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2099 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Nov 2013 at 6:34 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-09 11:36:23 PM
Obvious Tag out drinking this evening?
 
2013-11-09 11:36:33 PM
I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.
 
2013-11-09 11:39:00 PM
I think our march to trade freedom for the illusion of security and the comfort of servitude has been underway for so either now.
 
2013-11-09 11:39:43 PM
Some time now. Not "so either." Time for bed.
 
2013-11-09 11:44:01 PM

Nabb1: I think our march to trade freedom for the illusion of security and the comfort of servitude has been underway for so either now.


Since about oh....1918 or so.
 
2013-11-09 11:58:52 PM

dj_bigbird: Nabb1: I think our march to trade freedom for the illusion of security and the comfort of servitude has been underway for so either now.

Since about oh....1918 or so.


So when New Mexico became a state?
 
2013-11-10 12:00:25 AM
Oh dammit, posting before checking my database. New Mexico became a state in 1912, the same year Fenway Park was built. 1918 was the last time the Red Sox won baseball's World Series in the 20th century.

Joke fail.
 
2013-11-10 12:03:39 AM

jaylectricity: Oh dammit, posting before checking my database. New Mexico became a state in 1912, the same year Fenway Park was built. 1918 was the last time the Red Sox won baseball's World Series in the 20th century.

Joke fail.


Your database has a matrix of statehood vs Red Sox milestones?
 
2013-11-10 12:07:45 AM

2wolves: Obvious Tag out drinking this evening?


Yah, really. Irony tag? Perhaps subby is commenting on how those who opposed the founding of the Department of Fatherland Security, the TSA and the rest of the police state are labeled paranoid conspiracy theorists.
 
2013-11-10 12:08:21 AM

cameroncrazy1984: jaylectricity: Oh dammit, posting before checking my database. New Mexico became a state in 1912, the same year Fenway Park was built. 1918 was the last time the Red Sox won baseball's World Series in the 20th century.

Joke fail.

Your database has a matrix of statehood vs Red Sox milestones?


Everyone needs a hobby.
 
2013-11-10 12:18:57 AM
Pfft. What do the Germans know about out of control paranoid "democracies" gripped with fear?
 
2013-11-10 12:36:54 AM
AKA The "Two Party System".

/you have a choice
//not really
 
2013-11-10 01:38:54 AM
"Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission ... The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition ... [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world ... cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed."
- Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, 1965.
 
2013-11-10 01:58:46 AM

Bucky Katt: "Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission ... The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition ... [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world ... cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed."
-Rand Paul


ftfy
 
2013-11-10 02:48:13 AM

dookdookdook: Bucky Katt: "Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission ... The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition ... [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world ... cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed."
-Rand Paul

ftfy


hehe
 
2013-11-10 03:01:39 AM
First reaction: Well, duh.

Second reaction: Maybe not. Is it inevitable that paranoia, authoritarianism, and their evil spawn, blind obedience are a natural stage of a democracy (or, indeed any form of government)? I think maybe not.

We in the USA are in the state we are in because we have become complacent. While we (myself included) were staying right the hell out of local politics, school boards, grand juries (whenever possible), and the like, the far right authoritarian types, under the leadership of Big Religion and financed by the Big Money Libertarians infiltrated all of the organs of society and government. It hasn't happened to us overnight. It has been going on for many decades, and it has been deliberate and organized since about the time of the Goldwater campaign.

Even at this late stage we are not completely screwed. Well, we probably are, but only because we will continue to volunteer to be screwed. Used to be we could "take it back" by being judicious with our vote and vocal about our requirements of our elected representatives, but we didn't try very hard (idiots rioting in the streets in the '60s notwithstanding). Now, it will be much, much harder.

Thinking people who aren't billionaires are going to have to take responsible positions, even if they are small ones, and they will have to do it by the hundreds of thousands. People who are capable of and willing to live up to real responsibilities are going to have to put an end to the "zero tolerance" crap in schools, and expelling kids for making a gun with their fingers, voting for representatives who devote their entire energy to destroying the presidency of the United States to prove how far right they are and who want to set civil rights back a century or two.

You can't just yell at the stupid people, you have to replace them. It's hard for smart, thinking people to fill these small roles. The dumbasses outnumber smart people and they hate smart people and they make doing the right, honest, and good thing tremendously difficult. Smart people make dumb people feel bad. The billionaires who finance the dumbasses, like the Koch Bros. finance the Tea Party, have nothing but contempt for smart people who aren't them, and even more contempt for the dumbasses whom they control utterly. I don't know if it is still possible to regain our nation from Big Money and Big Religion.

We are probably past the peak of greatness for our particular empire and our particular time, but only if we allow it. I think there is so much indolence among the smart people, so much dependence on securing a job working for the rich, so much influence by the enormous crowd of poor, dumb, paranoid authoritarian submissives, and so much success by marketers and other manipulators-for-hire that we may never make sufficient effort to retake what used to be ours. But don't tell me it's inevitable.
 
2013-11-10 03:09:19 AM
"Because the settlers made such great sacrifices to seize their magnificent country -- from British troops, from the Indians and from the wilderness, from Dix. Remember when Richard Dix came over and try to take over the town? Well we didn't give up then and by gum we're not going to give up now!"
 
2013-11-10 04:07:24 AM
The U.S. is an hypocrisy and a fallacy.
 
2013-11-10 05:02:42 AM
Sometimes, the only way to protect freedom is to take it away and then allow people to experience it as necessary.  It is kind of like how the dodo bird went extinct in the wild during the seventeenth century, and only those most privileged to taste its flesh were allowed to consume those that remained in captivity.  Contemporary reports indicate that the poor taste of the dodo were the result of a "lack of bootstrappiness".  Rather than fly to new heights, the dodo chose to simply fall to its death when released from the deck of a seventeenth-century Dutch aircraft.  The point I am trying to make is that the dodo is the liberal.  It shiats itself and then complains it is going extinct.  And sometimes, you don't get the freedom to shiat yourself.  Just as the free market is the right of the corporation to destroy the free market, sometimes, freedom can only be preserved by eliminating it.  Freedom, in this modern era, can only be rationed out to those who truly deserve it.  And I just want to say that those making over 250,000 dollars a year have earned it.  Thank you, rich people.  Thank you, job creators.  You are proof that freedom still exists, even if you poor and smelly liberals will never get to know what it feels like.
 
2013-11-10 06:07:18 AM
Your comment has no basis in reality and cannot be taken seriously.
 
2013-11-10 06:11:54 AM

This About That: Your comment has no basis in reality and cannot be taken seriously.


You must be new here.
 
2013-11-10 06:38:12 AM

bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.


I like the way you think, but where will we get our screen doors from afterwards?
 
2013-11-10 06:40:32 AM

SearchN: bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.

I like the way you think, but where will we get our screen doors from afterwards?


Are we even building new submarines anymore?
 
2013-11-10 06:51:05 AM

SearchN: bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.

I like the way you think, but where will we get our screen doors from afterwards?


We haven't used battleships in forever.
 
2013-11-10 07:01:08 AM

Mike_LowELL: Sometimes, the only way to protect freedom is to take it away and then allow people to experience it as necessary.  It is kind of like how the dodo bird went extinct in the wild during the seventeenth century, and only those most privileged to taste its flesh were allowed to consume those that remained in captivity.  Contemporary reports indicate that the poor taste of the dodo were the result of a "lack of bootstrappiness".  Rather than fly to new heights, the dodo chose to simply fall to its death when released from the deck of a seventeenth-century Dutch aircraft.  The point I am trying to make is that the dodo is the liberal.  It shiats itself and then complains it is going extinct.  And sometimes, you don't get the freedom to shiat yourself.  Just as the free market is the right of the corporation to destroy the free market, sometimes, freedom can only be preserved by eliminating it.  Freedom, in this modern era, can only be rationed out to those who truly deserve it.  And I just want to say that those making over 250,000 dollars a year have earned it.  Thank you, rich people.  Thank you, job creators.  You are proof that freedom still exists, even if you poor and smelly liberals will never get to know what it feels like.


This is a work of genius.
 
2013-11-10 07:08:20 AM

bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.


We've got the aggressive army, the coal-scuttle helmets, the SS camouflage.
Why not?!
Bet the Haliburtons and KBRs could make a killing, then ... Polish women for everyone!
 
2013-11-10 07:09:45 AM

JerkyMeat: The U.S. is an hypocrisy and a fallacy.


But the US and A! will put its boot in your ass, so there's that.
:-) Have a Nice Day!
 
2013-11-10 07:25:17 AM

bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.


Someone was asleep on 9-11
 
2013-11-10 07:27:11 AM
They hate us for our freedom.
 
2013-11-10 07:29:45 AM

Bucky Katt: "Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission ... The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition ... [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world ... cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed."
- Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, 1965.


This is spot on.
Most Americans who self-identify as conservative are actually authoritarian followers, neoconservatives. Same as most American liberals are neoliberals, not actual liberals. Rank-and-file American conservatives lean fascist and plutocratic, but so do the typical neoliberals.

The best conservatives we've got are the paleocons, who are quite socially liberal.
 
2013-11-10 07:32:31 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: bdub77: I think the US only has one thing left to do.

Invade Poland.

We've got the aggressive army, the coal-scuttle helmets, the SS camouflage.
Why not?!
Bet the Haliburtons and KBRs could make a killing, then ... Polish women for everyone!


Never happen, there is no oil in Poland.

Now Canada on the other hand......
 
2013-11-10 07:34:15 AM
What freedoms have we lost, exactly?  Funny, but everyone starts to glaze over, using abstract terms whenever I ask this question.
 
2013-11-10 07:35:55 AM

This About That: First reaction: Well, duh.


Loved your post and agreed with everything you said with the exception of 'big money Libertarians'.

Libertarians have no place at the table because of the two-party monopoly in DC. They will probably never have a place at the table because of voters who bought the line that a vote is wasted if it doesn't get handed over to a dem or a pub.

The two party monopoly exists at the pleasure of large corporations - making our form of government pretty close to feudalism (IMO). Now, I say monopoly because I believe both parties serve the exact same master - and it ain't you and I.

Too late to fix? Yeah. Probably so.
 
2013-11-10 07:38:38 AM

lj1330: What freedoms have we lost, exactly?  Funny, but everyone starts to glaze over, using abstract terms whenever I ask this question.


Privacy, for one.
The right to be secure in your person and affects.
Due process of law.
Habeas Corpus
Quo Warranto
The right to a speedy trial
And, this week, the right to not have your ass invaded when being stopped for rolling a stop sign.
 
2013-11-10 07:46:53 AM

Mike_LowELL: Sometimes, the only way to protect freedom is to take it away and then allow people to experience it as necessary.  It is kind of like how the dodo bird went extinct in the wild during the seventeenth century, and only those most privileged to taste its flesh were allowed to consume those that remained in captivity.  Contemporary reports indicate that the poor taste of the dodo were the result of a "lack of bootstrappiness".  Rather than fly to new heights, the dodo chose to simply fall to its death when released from the deck of a seventeenth-century Dutch aircraft.  The point I am trying to make is that the dodo is the liberal.  It shiats itself and then complains it is going extinct.  And sometimes, you don't get the freedom to shiat yourself.  Just as the free market is the right of the corporation to destroy the free market, sometimes, freedom can only be preserved by eliminating it.  Freedom, in this modern era, can only be rationed out to those who truly deserve it.  And I just want to say that those making over 250,000 dollars a year have earned it.  Thank you, rich people.  Thank you, job creators.  You are proof that freedom still exists, even if you poor and smelly liberals will never get to know what it feels like.


Fark thinks you're sooooo funny, but ten years from now this will be your average CNN comment.
 
2013-11-10 07:49:07 AM

dangelder: ark thinks you're sooooo funny, but ten years from now this will be your average CNN comment.


It's not already?
 
2013-11-10 08:02:03 AM

phenn: lj1330: What freedoms have we lost, exactly?  Funny, but everyone starts to glaze over, using abstract terms whenever I ask this question.

Privacy, for one.
The right to be secure in your person and affects.
Due process of law.
Habeas Corpus
Quo Warranto
The right to a speedy trial
And, this week, the right to not have your ass invaded when being stopped for rolling a stop sign.


so, none?
 
2013-11-10 08:03:39 AM
Strictly speaking, the  USisn't in the late stages of this cycle, the  Republican Party, and especially the  Tea Party are. You can tell, because they're the third of the country losing money safely by stockpiling gold and firearms, while the 50+% that voted Democrat in the last election do nothing of the sort.

Give it ten years. Let the Baby Boomers die off a bit, and become more focused on the success of their latest bowel movement than on politics. Then things will change. Rapidly.
 
NFA
2013-11-10 08:05:57 AM
 
2013-11-10 08:13:49 AM
A democracy if you can keep it.

/Because POLICE STATES are FUN. Google: Stazi.
 
2013-11-10 08:14:37 AM
imageshack.us
 
2013-11-10 08:17:26 AM

lj1330: What freedoms have we lost, exactly?  Funny, but everyone starts to glaze over, using abstract terms whenever I ask this question.


Are you serious? I don't think this is a serious question.
 
2013-11-10 08:20:30 AM
That article was a bit juvenile. Let's examine current American culture using an Indian attack on a wagon train. Hmmm. The next time Germany has a foreign policy clustercuss, what episode from their past can I use to shed light on said clustercuss?

The internet has bent the discourse. The entire globe has regressed to adolescence.
 
2013-11-10 08:20:51 AM

whistleridge: Strictly speaking, the  USisn't in the late stages of this cycle, the  Republican Party, and especially the  Tea Party are. You can tell, because they're the third of the country losing money safely by stockpiling gold and firearms, while the 50+% that voted Democrat in the last election do nothing of the sort.

Give it ten years. Let the Baby Boomers die off a bit, and become more focused on the success of their latest bowel movement than on politics. Then things will change. Rapidly.


As much as I'd like to place all he blame on Republicans, I'm pretty sure both sides are doing this.  Clinton wanted the Clipper Chip and dramatically expanded the police state.  Thus far, Obama hasn't done much to curtail it, and the reasons that he's given have been based in paranoia.

You might have a point about Boomers, though.
 
2013-11-10 08:23:32 AM

phenn: This About That: First reaction: Well, duh.

Loved your post and agreed with everything you said with the exception of 'big money Libertarians'.

Libertarians have no place at the table because of the two-party monopoly in DC. They will probably never have a place at the table because of voters who bought the line that a vote is wasted if it doesn't get handed over to a dem or a pub.

The two party monopoly exists at the pleasure of large corporations - making our form of government pretty close to feudalism (IMO). Now, I say monopoly because I believe both parties serve the exact same master - and it ain't you and I.

Too late to fix? Yeah. Probably so.


Except that Libertarians are basically nuts, and are basically 100% composed of Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans, so no one is ever going to vote for them.
 
2013-11-10 08:31:09 AM

ghare: Except that Libertarians are basically nuts, and are basically 100% composed of Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans, so no one is ever going to vote for them.


That may be what you've read, but it's not true in the least.
 
2013-11-10 08:32:56 AM
But all the Wars On Stuff have been great and productive as fark.
 
2013-11-10 08:45:46 AM

phenn: ghare: Except that Libertarians are basically nuts, and are basically 100% composed of Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans, so no one is ever going to vote for them.

That may be what you've read, but it's not true in the least.


I want to believe you, but I don't.
 
2013-11-10 08:49:51 AM

phenn: ghare: Except that Libertarians are basically nuts, and are basically 100% composed of Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans, so no one is ever going to vote for them.

That may be what you've read, but it's not true in the least.


What's your opinion on Scottsmen?
 
2013-11-10 08:52:02 AM

phenn: ghare: Except that Libertarians are basically nuts, and are basically 100% composed of Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans, so no one is ever going to vote for them.

That may be what you've read, but it's not true in the least.


I think people just assume that because it's such a juvenile ethos that doesn't even work well on paper let alone the real world. I think most people think people like Rand Paul are just crypto-shills of some sort that wrap themselves in a minimalist disguise that appeals to those looking for simple solutions. Once they gain any power they'll just do whatever the hell they want.
 
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