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(Opposing Views)   College students facing expulsion for a.) drug use, b.) sexual harassment, or c.) using a legally owned gun to scare away a felon who was arrested shortly thereafter?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 168
    More: Strange, students, secondary educations, homicide rate  
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4938 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Nov 2013 at 1:14 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



168 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-09 11:50:46 AM
Because the students rent their apartment from the university, they are subject to the school's campus-wide policy banning firearms.

Well there you go.

/although I'd just give them a warning this time.
 
2013-11-09 01:15:24 PM
Campus also have a policy on banning felons? How's that working for them?
 
2013-11-09 01:16:39 PM
Non-story is an outrage!
 
2013-11-09 01:17:01 PM
Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns are allowed aren't the same thing.
 
2013-11-09 01:18:18 PM

The Bestest: Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns are allowed aren't the same thing.


^
 
2013-11-09 01:18:50 PM
Should have called 911 instead. The police are legally obligated to protect you.
 
2013-11-09 01:20:23 PM

The Bestest: Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns are allowed aren't the same thing.


actually, they are.  Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns ARENT allowed, on the other hand...
 
2013-11-09 01:23:08 PM
I am tired of clicking on links from that site, they always have idiotic full-volume advertisements that start automatically.

/ an armed society is a polite society
 
2013-11-09 01:23:16 PM

Go Fornicate Without a Partner: The Bestest: Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns are allowed aren't the same thing.

actually, they are.  Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns ARENT allowed, on the other hand...


Gun-free zones.  Where only the criminals are armed...
 
2013-11-09 01:23:31 PM
They've learned a valuable lesson here: never admit anything to anyone in authority anywhere at any time; there's no upside and plenty of potential down.
 
2013-11-09 01:24:07 PM
Sorry kids.  Your contract expressly forbids firearms and you had firearms.  You probably shouldn't be expelled, but next time, read the damned rules first.
 
2013-11-09 01:25:18 PM
Translation: Beggar who happens to have outstanding warrants goes begging.  Armed tough guy decides to point gun at him.  Cries a river when he finds out this is against the rules and that {gasp} he might actually be held accountable for his actions.  Story picked up by gun advocates who spin it into a heroic struggle between a "lawful" gun owner protecting his very life and a dangerous felon who was looking to kill him.
 
2013-11-09 01:26:27 PM
Shoulda shot the motherf*cker
 
2013-11-09 01:27:32 PM
"using a legally owned gun "

What militia does he belong to?
 
2013-11-09 01:28:20 PM
Good for these students for exposing their school's dangerously irresponsible policy of not allowing students to effectively defend themselves in their own domiciles off campus.
 
2013-11-09 01:29:26 PM
Eh, I can actually understand not realizing on-campus rules were enforced at off-campus apartments.

Warning.
 
2013-11-09 01:29:38 PM
Time to find a new landlord, apparently.
 
2013-11-09 01:31:06 PM
Meh. Rent from someone else.

JosephFinn

What militia does he belong to?

The same one most of us do.
 
2013-11-09 01:33:50 PM

jjorsett: They've learned a valuable lesson here: never admit anything to anyone in authority anywhere at any time; there's no upside and plenty of potential down.


"In times like this I've been advised by legal council not to answer any questions"

Then ...

STFU

The police (or similar) likely don't even know how many laws they are supposed to be enforcing.

Don't expect that you know them all either.
 
2013-11-09 01:34:05 PM
That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....
 
2013-11-09 01:34:34 PM
You can have all the idiotic policies you want but the fact is the weapon is legal. I say they go to court and test this expulsion.
 
2013-11-09 01:37:42 PM

basemetal: Because the students rent their apartment from the university, they are subject to the school's campus-wide policy banning firearms.

Well there you go.

/although I'd just give them a warning this time.

 
2013-11-09 01:42:08 PM
When breaking the rules keeps people alive maybe it's time to change the rules.
 
2013-11-09 01:42:22 PM

Bslim: You can have all the idiotic policies you want but the fact is the weapon is legal. I say they go to court and test this expulsion.



#1: they haven't been expelled.
#2: private property rules trump individual rights.  Take a look at all the people who live in townhomes or planned communities who get pissed when they can't fly their 60 foot American flag.
#3: they rented the apartment.  They had to sign something.  They signed it without looking at the rules.  Tough for them.

What we have is a pair of kids who broke a policy and are channeling the gun nuts in an effort to get away with breaking rules.  Like I asked somewhere else: what would these same gun rights advocates say if the kids had broken a policy against, say, a drunken party in the apartment?  Would they be all about personal rights then?
 
2013-11-09 01:42:48 PM

Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....


I am pro second amendment but I am also pro-property rights so I am going to say  just as a landlord can ban  pets he could ban  firearms,  It is his property.  I would think that such changes in policy would have to wait til a lease expires to take effect.


 Also , at least in some states that have concealed carry laws businesses can still ban people from bringing firearms on their property.
 
2013-11-09 01:43:19 PM

basemetal: Because the students rent their apartment from the university, they are subject to the school's campus-wide policy banning firearms.

Well there you go.

/although I'd just give them a warning this time.


This. He also says he wouldn't have lived there if he knew about the no-gun policy. I'd say a warning, probation, etc.

But ya, imagine if he didn't have the gun.
 
2013-11-09 01:43:32 PM

jjorsett: They've learned a valuable lesson here: never admit anything to anyone in authority anywhere at any time; there's no upside and plenty of potential down.


The american man's right of passage, sadly.
 
2013-11-09 01:43:55 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Bslim: You can have all the idiotic policies you want but the fact is the weapon is legal. I say they go to court and test this expulsion.


#1: they haven't been expelled.
#2: private property rules trump individual rights.  Take a look at all the people who live in townhomes or planned communities who get pissed when they can't fly their 60 foot American flag.
#3: they rented the apartment.  They had to sign something.  They signed it without looking at the rules.  Tough for them.

What we have is a pair of kids who broke a policy and are channeling the gun nuts in an effort to get away with breaking rules.  Like I asked somewhere else: what would these same gun rights advocates say if the kids had broken a policy against, say, a drunken party in the apartment?  Would they be all about personal rights then?


Is the right to party in the constitution?
 
2013-11-09 01:44:07 PM

JosephFinn: "using a legally owned gun " What militia does he belong to?


The *Heller* militia.
 
2013-11-09 01:44:17 PM

Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....


IIRC, buildings owned by a university are considered public buildings.  Even apartments.

But what do I know?
 
2013-11-09 01:45:07 PM
This simply brings into question the wisdom and rationality of the gun restrictions by the university.
 
2013-11-09 01:45:53 PM

hasty ambush: Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....

I am pro second amendment but I am also pro-property rights so I am going to say  just as a landlord can ban  pets he could ban  firearms,  It is his property.  I would think that such changes in policy would have to wait til a lease expires to take effect.


 Also , at least in some states that have concealed carry laws businesses can still ban people from bringing firearms on their property.


I disagree.  I don't think landlords can suspend the Constitution.  Can he bar you from posting on the internet?  Reading the newspaper?  Voting?  We're not talking about businesses, we're talking about private domiciles.  How are people supposed to defend themselves in their own residences?
 
2013-11-09 01:46:04 PM
Facing expulsion= you broke the rules and they have a variety of disciplinary options, up to expulsion, at a hearing yet to happen.

Ya, you need to understand and obey the rules of the place you live, living in student housing, employee housing, or whatever can carry certain rules that a regular landlord would not be able to impose on tenants. Same goes for state owned/rented section 9 housing. Welcome to grown-up world, kids.

Also, if the neighborhood is that unsafe, a gun isn't gonna keep you safe.
 
2013-11-09 01:46:55 PM

EkimProx: basemetal: Because the students rent their apartment from the university, they are subject to the school's campus-wide policy banning firearms.

Well there you go.

/although I'd just give them a warning this time.

This. He also says he wouldn't have lived there if he knew about the no-gun policy. I'd say a warning, probation, etc.

But ya, imagine if he didn't have the gun.


Or imagine if he read the policy and lived somewhere else.
 
2013-11-09 01:47:21 PM

firefly212: Also, if the neighborhood is that unsafe, a gun isn't gonna keep you safe.


Except in this instance, apparently....
 
2013-11-09 01:48:12 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Sorry kids.  Your contract expressly forbids firearms and you had firearms.  You probably shouldn't be expelled, but next time, read the damned rules first.


If the contract prohibits the students from protecting themselves based on their 2nd Amendment rights, then the university should be held for providing a safe environment.....since the university did not hold up their end of the deal....the students should sue the living shiat out Gonzaga.
 
2013-11-09 01:48:14 PM

LargeCanine: This simply brings into question the wisdom and rationality of the gun restrictions by the university.


I'd say it brings into question the wisdom and rationality of having student-housing in high crime areas... guns are still (statistically) an extraordinarily crappy safety measure.
 
2013-11-09 01:49:19 PM

Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....


The school owns the property though. I'm not sure how that works out ultimately, whether the school can add a clause about firearm or weapon possession in an off campus rental property.

Here's link to the actual law governing this: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18">http://apps.leg.w a.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18 

/Not a lawyer.
//Just what a quick search turned up.
 
2013-11-09 01:49:21 PM

JosephFinn: "using a legally owned gun "

What militia does he belong to?


Do you wonder how I know that you are either incredibly ignorant or a troll?
 
2013-11-09 01:49:34 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....

IIRC, buildings owned by a university are considered public buildings.  Even apartments.


You can still be banned from bringing firearms into many public buildings (see most courthouses, many state capitol buildings, etc).
And in any case, Gonzaga University is a private  Roman Catholic univeristy

But what do I know?

  Not much, apparently.
 
2013-11-09 01:49:37 PM

firefly212: EkimProx: basemetal: Because the students rent their apartment from the university, they are subject to the school's campus-wide policy banning firearms.

Well there you go.

/although I'd just give them a warning this time.

This. He also says he wouldn't have lived there if he knew about the no-gun policy. I'd say a warning, probation, etc.

But ya, imagine if he didn't have the gun.

Or imagine if he read the policy and lived somewhere else.


Imagine someone else lived there and was unarmed.
 
2013-11-09 01:50:10 PM

firefly212: LargeCanine: This simply brings into question the wisdom and rationality of the gun restrictions by the university.

I'd say it brings into question the wisdom and rationality of having student-housing in high crime areas... guns are still (statistically) an extraordinarily crappy safety measure.


How?  They're used in self-defense at least as often as they're used in crimes.  What about the wisdom of having a university in a high-crime area?  Wouldn't it follow that student-housing and university-owned housing would also be in a high-crime area, and that people don't really have a choice?
 
2013-11-09 01:50:47 PM

firefly212: Facing expulsion= you broke the rules and they have a variety of disciplinary options, up to expulsion, at a hearing yet to happen.

Ya, you need to understand and obey the rules of the place you live, living in student housing, employee housing, or whatever can carry certain rules that a regular landlord would not be able to impose on tenants. Same goes for state owned/rented section 9 housing. Welcome to grown-up world, kids.

Also, if the neighborhood is that unsafe, a gun isn't gonna keep you safe.


 The gun did in fact keep him safe.  Without it he might very well be dead. When the rules get you killed it's time to question the rules.
 
2013-11-09 01:50:58 PM

firefly212: Facing expulsion= you broke the rules and they have a variety of disciplinary options, up to expulsion, at a hearing yet to happen.

Ya, you need to understand and obey the rules of the place you live, living in student housing, employee housing, or whatever can carry certain rules that a regular landlord would not be able to impose on tenants. Same goes for state owned/rented section 9 housing. Welcome to grown-up world, kids.

Also, if the neighborhood is that unsafe, a gun isn't gonna keep you safe.


Oh reeeeeeally? As if say, some convicted felon tried tried to home invade you at 3am?
 
2013-11-09 01:51:40 PM

firefly212: Also, if the neighborhood is that unsafe, a gun isn't gonna keep you safe.


Actually, it did keep them safe in this particular situation.
 
2013-11-09 01:52:15 PM

hasty ambush: Fark It: That's funny, I thought you had a Constitutional right to own a handgun in the home for self-defense.  Does a landlord have the right to bar you from owning guns?  This wasn't a dormitory....

I am pro second amendment but I am also pro-property rights so I am going to say  just as a landlord can ban  pets he could ban  firearms,  It is his property.  I would think that such changes in policy would have to wait til a lease expires to take effect.


 Also , at least in some states that have concealed carry laws businesses can still ban people from bringing firearms on their property.


This is one of those areas where rights that are in conflict means the courts might beneficially weigh in. A residential landlord wouldn't be able to infringe on the exercise of certain other rights, such as free speech. If somebody thinks landlords shouldn't be able to ban legal weapons, they should bring a suit and get a definitive answer one way or the other. At least then it would be settled.
 
2013-11-09 01:53:03 PM

BBtB: The Bestest: Legally owning a gun and having a gun in a place where guns are allowed aren't the same thing.

^


^ many times this

Guy in the police program at a local technical school was expelled from the program because he lived in school housing. They housing banned firearms. He bought a firearm (pistol) and brought it on the property. The program head kicked his a$$ out of the program. His poutrage was similar. He had never taken the gun out of the case, blah blah blah. Whine whine whine.

He was still kicked out.
 
2013-11-09 01:53:38 PM
The lesson here is read the contract. I wonder if these two have 50 different credit cards in their names.
 
2013-11-09 01:53:48 PM

DoomPaul: Should have called 911 instead. The police are legally obligated to protect you.


LMAO!  You owe me a new keyboard!
 
2013-11-09 01:54:26 PM

Bslim: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Bslim: You can have all the idiotic policies you want but the fact is the weapon is legal. I say they go to court and test this expulsion.


#1: they haven't been expelled.
#2: private property rules trump individual rights.  Take a look at all the people who live in townhomes or planned communities who get pissed when they can't fly their 60 foot American flag.
#3: they rented the apartment.  They had to sign something.  They signed it without looking at the rules.  Tough for them.

What we have is a pair of kids who broke a policy and are channeling the gun nuts in an effort to get away with breaking rules.  Like I asked somewhere else: what would these same gun rights advocates say if the kids had broken a policy against, say, a drunken party in the apartment?  Would they be all about personal rights then?

Is the right to party in the constitution?


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."


It seems that the right to party is alienable, and must be fought for.

/Yes, I know that isn't the constitution
//Joke isn't mine, either
 
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