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(Huffington Post)   Some police chiefs believe their officers to be a paramilitary force that should don riot gear, establish immigration status of anyone looking Latino, or send in SWAT to execute no-knock warrants....then there's this guy   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 166
    More: Cool, SWAT team, police chiefs, two-way communication, Utahns, Deseret News  
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5418 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Nov 2013 at 2:34 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



166 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-09 07:26:33 AM
This guy is really believes in the term "Community Policing"

"I have two goals in policing. First, we need to humanize our police forces. We aren't an occupying force. We are a part of the community. And we need to understand that to do our jobs, we sometimes need to expose ourselves to a little bit of risk. Otherwise we end up doing our jobs out of paranoia, not out of dignity and respect for the community," he says.

"Second, no bias in what we do. We need to recognize that we have emotions, and learn to dial that back a little bit. One of the most important traits in a good police officer is empathy."
 
2013-11-09 08:59:31 AM
Good story. I wish we could clone this guy.
 
2013-11-09 09:27:47 AM
Sounds like the right sort of person for that kind of job.
 
2013-11-09 09:38:38 AM
It's too bad this guy is the exception instead of the rule.
 
2013-11-09 11:20:34 AM
Sounds like Sam Vimes.
 
2013-11-09 11:39:55 AM

F-14Tomcat: Good story. I wish we could clone this guy.


Just don't clone the clones.
 
2013-11-09 11:46:17 AM
"It's unfortunate that an officer was killed," Burbank says of the Stewart raid. "But we need to take a look at their approach. Could we do it a better way? It should never be the goal to write a no-knock warrant. As police officers, our goal should always be to use the lowest possible level of force to fulfill our responsibilities. In a case like that, I don't know why you can't wait and just stop them as they walk out the front door."

Huh, a cop with a brain who knows how to use it. Awesome for him,
 
2013-11-09 12:16:58 PM
I'm just convinced that when we don riot gear, it says 'throw rocks and bottles at us.' It invites confrontation. Two-way communication and cooperation are what's important. If one side overreacts, then it all falls apart."

What do you know  - a cop who isn't a power-tripping asshole with delusions of adequacy.  Good for him.  I'll be surprised if he isn't brought up soon on some bullshiat trumped-up charge brought to Council by his officers, out of concern for the safety and moral authority of the Force.
 
2013-11-09 12:26:54 PM
IIRC that kind of behavior is generally punished by twenty years of boredom.
 
2013-11-09 12:47:38 PM

unlikely: IIRC that kind of behavior is generally punished by twenty years of boredom.


I don't like your fashion business, mister.
 
2013-11-09 01:38:23 PM

Relatively Obscure: unlikely: IIRC that kind of behavior is generally punished by twenty years of boredom.

I don't like your fashion business, mister.


That's your right, I guess. But you must admit the weapons are beautiful.
 
2013-11-09 02:15:26 PM
Just reading about this guy even kept subby from abusing the Hero tag.
 
2013-11-09 02:38:06 PM
Someone in a position of authority acting like a sensible human being?

Someone will call for his resignation soon.
 
2013-11-09 02:40:19 PM
But there goes all of his funding from the Department of Homeland Security.
 
2013-11-09 02:51:18 PM
Holy crap. I think I'm going to write this guy in on my ballot for POTUS in 2016.
 
2013-11-09 02:52:09 PM

runwiz: But there goes all of his funding from the Department of Homeland Security.


I say we let this guy RUN the DoHS.

When everyone is discussing the rest of the fascist thugs that run around anally violating without probable cause, planting drugs, shooting to kill without provocation  or kicking down doors and shooting pets in their vigilant pursuit of who can violate the most civil rights in  a day?

He's that one "good cop" you keep hearing about

/yeah, let's clone him
 
2013-11-09 02:53:17 PM
Good on this guy, he sounds like just the kind of human being the world needs more of.
 
2013-11-09 02:54:24 PM
Time to be that jackass.

Article dated 10/30/2013.  This is old news.
 
2013-11-09 02:55:45 PM

mongbiohazard: Holy crap. I think I'm going to write this guy in on my ballot for POTUS in 2016.


wait a sec.  it's Utah.  he might be a mormontologist.
 
2013-11-09 02:59:16 PM

cmunic8r99: F-14Tomcat: Good story. I wish we could clone this guy.

Just don't clone the clones.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net

gnosis301: Time to be that jackass.

Article dated 10/30/2013.  This is old news.


and?

There are plenty of cops like this, but the assholes get all the attention, even though they are the minority...like the Teabaggers
 
2013-11-09 03:05:06 PM
This is one guy who really has it together. What a great background and approach. We definitely need MORE of him.
 
2013-11-09 03:05:41 PM

The Flexecutioner: mongbiohazard: Holy crap. I think I'm going to write this guy in on my ballot for POTUS in 2016.

wait a sec.  it's Utah.  he might be a mormontologist.



So what? I don't care if he's Mormon or Hindu or whatever. As an American that's his own damn business.

If you read TFA he traveled all over the world when he was young, even staying with a Muslim family as a teen. I find it seriously unlikely that he's some flavor of Mormon dominionist. If he doesn't want to force the rest of us to live by his religion then he can worship a space jellyfish who impersonates Elvis for all I care.

But his attitudes that he not only espouses but actually puts in to action? Those are very rare, and sorely needed at all levels of government. He'd quite possibly make an excellent chief executive. He certainly has the right attitude.
 
2013-11-09 03:06:39 PM
Hey, they found the good apple! ACAB except this one farking guy or something.

And until the entire concept of policing is revisited, it means nothing.
 
2013-11-09 03:17:15 PM

cretinbob: There are plenty of cops like this, but the assholes get all the attention, even though they are the minority...like the Teabaggers


That is the correct answer. You win the prize.
 
2013-11-09 03:18:45 PM

Marcus Aurelius: It's too bad this guy is the exception instead of the rule.


I have been assured by fark that cops like this cannot exist and anyone with these views would be kicked out of the police force for having them and certainly couldn't rise through the ranks.

Has the cop hate brigade been lying all this time?
 
2013-11-09 03:20:52 PM
Is he a member of ....leap.com ( law enforcement officers against prohibition ) ?
 
2013-11-09 03:28:48 PM

CruiserTwelve: cretinbob: There are plenty of cops like this, but the assholes get all the attention, even though they are the minority...like the Teabaggers

That is the correct answer. You win the prize.


"Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.
 
2013-11-09 03:33:36 PM
At a certain point in the article, right around the time they talked about his parents being ballet dancers and having lots of gay friends, I had to check my calender to make sure it wasn't early April.
 
2013-11-09 03:34:19 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: "Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.


You're very wrong, but I won't waste my time trying to convince you of that. You'll never change your mind anyhow.
 
2013-11-09 03:37:29 PM
Cops: former high school bullies who were too stupid for college and too lazy for the military.
 
2013-11-09 03:41:35 PM

CruiserTwelve: A Dark Evil Omen: "Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.

You're very wrong, but I won't waste my time trying to convince you of that. You'll never change your mind anyhow.


You're right, I won't. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the LAPD would not have been under a federal consent order for twelve years over issues of corruption, systemic racism and regular use of excessive force. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the Seattle PD would not be presently under one for the very same reasons. It's not like I have to dig deep for these issues, they are repeated over and over around the country and around the world, and not at the level of individual officers but at departmental levels. "Good cops" at this point occupy the same space as "moderate Republicans": They may exist, but are not the majority, are at best ineffective and in all cases are openly and actively complicit in the vile shiat perpetrated by their compatriots.
 
2013-11-09 03:46:53 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm just convinced that when we don riot gear, it says 'throw rocks and bottles at us.' It invites confrontation. Two-way communication and cooperation are what's important. If one side overreacts, then it all falls apart."

What do you know  - a cop who isn't a power-tripping asshole with delusions of adequacy.  Good for him.  I'll be surprised if he isn't brought up soon on some bullshiat trumped-up charge brought to Council by his officers, out of concern for the safety and moral authority of the Force.


So you agree with sentiment that the anti cop folks cannot handle seeing the riot gear without choosing to riot like retarded lemmings?

Further, while I think that reality is something cops should account for, the faults of idiots still ultimately lies with them.
 
2013-11-09 03:47:21 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: CruiserTwelve: A Dark Evil Omen: "Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.

You're very wrong, but I won't waste my time trying to convince you of that. You'll never change your mind anyhow.

You're right, I won't. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the LAPD would not have been under a federal consent order for twelve years over issues of corruption, systemic racism and regular use of excessive force. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the Seattle PD would not be presently under one for the very same reasons. It's not like I have to dig deep for these issues, they are repeated over and over around the country and around the world, and not at the level of individual officers but at departmental levels. "Good cops" at this point occupy the same space as "moderate Republicans": They may exist, but are not the majority, are at best ineffective and in all cases are openly and actively complicit in the vile shiat perpetrated by their compatriots.


All of THIS. Not to mention the point of the article itself.  If "good cops" were the majority, then their departments would not be consenting to the militarization of police forces.  "Moderate Republicans" is the perfect analogy.
 
2013-11-09 03:51:09 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: CruiserTwelve: cretinbob: There are plenty of cops like this, but the assholes get all the attention, even though they are the minority...like the Teabaggers

That is the correct answer. You win the prize.

"Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.


Show me the stats.

Account for total number of cops when you do.
 
2013-11-09 03:53:03 PM

The Name: A Dark Evil Omen: CruiserTwelve: A Dark Evil Omen: "Bad cops" are not a minority, they are the norm.

You're very wrong, but I won't waste my time trying to convince you of that. You'll never change your mind anyhow.

You're right, I won't. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the LAPD would not have been under a federal consent order for twelve years over issues of corruption, systemic racism and regular use of excessive force. If "bad cops" were not the norm, the Seattle PD would not be presently under one for the very same reasons. It's not like I have to dig deep for these issues, they are repeated over and over around the country and around the world, and not at the level of individual officers but at departmental levels. "Good cops" at this point occupy the same space as "moderate Republicans": They may exist, but are not the majority, are at best ineffective and in all cases are openly and actively complicit in the vile shiat perpetrated by their compatriots.

All of THIS. Not to mention the point of the article itself.  If "good cops" were the majority, then their departments would not be consenting to the militarization of police forces.  "Moderate Republicans" is the perfect analogy.


What do you mean by militarization, and what say does the average cop have i training procedures and other examples of said militarization?
 
2013-11-09 03:55:15 PM

Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm just convinced that when we don riot gear, it says 'throw rocks and bottles at us.' It invites confrontation. Two-way communication and cooperation are what's important. If one side overreacts, then it all falls apart."

What do you know  - a cop who isn't a power-tripping asshole with delusions of adequacy.  Good for him.  I'll be surprised if he isn't brought up soon on some bullshiat trumped-up charge brought to Council by his officers, out of concern for the safety and moral authority of the Force.

So you agree with sentiment that the anti cop folks cannot handle seeing the riot gear without choosing to riot like retarded lemmings?

Further, while I think that reality is something cops should account for, the faults of idiots still ultimately lies with them.


No argument here.  But I also think that, if I'm peacefully protesting, and a cop in regular uniform shows up t talk, I'm alot less likely to feel that I'm being threatened than if a guy in full riot gear, helmet, shield, tear gas, mace and all, comes toward me in an aggressive posture.
 
2013-11-09 03:55:28 PM

Smackledorfer: What do you mean by militarization, and what say does the average cop have i training procedures and other examples of said militarization?


Ah, the cop white-knight's favorite ploy: "They're just following orders".
 
2013-11-09 03:56:03 PM
It's worked before:

www.tvweek.com
 
2013-11-09 03:56:34 PM
Glad this guy made it to the news. Most times the good cops are the ones that don't end up in the paper.
 
2013-11-09 03:57:56 PM

Smackledorfer: What do you mean by militarization,


Police departments getting armored personnel carriers for one. Also the expanded use of police in riot gear for non-riot situations.
 
2013-11-09 03:58:43 PM

Relatively Obscure: unlikely: IIRC that kind of behavior is generally punished by twenty years of boredom.

I don't like your fashion business, mister.


Did I thank you for those items that you sent me?
 
2013-11-09 04:00:03 PM

edmo: It's worked before:


Thay was back when it was illegal to blah in North Carolina

A simpler time
 
2013-11-09 04:12:37 PM

EJ25T: Someone in a position of authority acting like a sensible human being?

Someone will call for his resignation soon.


That's right.  He won't last long, because our police forces have become military organizations.  What with the access to cheap, surplus military hardware  (http://www.naturalnews.com/039486_police_militarization_surplus_equi pm ent_liberty.html ), the wearing of digital cammies in urban environments (http://www.policemag.com/channel/swat/articles/2011/04/blending-into -t he-background.aspx ), and the common hyper-aggressive "policing" nature of law enforcement agencies these days, he is a welcome breath of fresh air.

But the hardline officers in his force won't stand for that trash.  He'll be out soon.
 
2013-11-09 04:15:21 PM
This officer has remembered something that police departments and academies used to drill relentlessly into every new officer and keep as strict policy, and actually enforce: a continuum-of-force policy. Don't use more force than you're presented with, and less is always better if possible. These days more and more officers immediately go for greater force then the subject presents. This is the wrong approach, as this couples authority inextricably with application of physical force (which is not the proper source of authority). He's right that this approach to law enforcement does elevate the risk to his officers under some conditions, but (1) that's part of the job you signed on for, and (2) walking into a situation in which violence can be avoided but you look like you're bringing it yourself leads to avoidable escalations. It'd be interesting to see his department's statistics on violent confrontations - weapon discharges on-duty and such - and see if he's still keeping the peace with less weapons use. Seems he does have some success in this regard.

I don't entirely agree with his example of talking to the drug dealers; if all you do is run them off, then they become someone else's problem. I like his other idea of catching them on their way out the door better. We've seen enough no-knock warrants on the wrong addresses to know that policy needs some reining in. Beyond that, I'm glad to see someone with some real authority keeping to this sort of policy and getting some deserved positive attention for it.
 
2013-11-09 04:23:34 PM

Captain_Sunshine: This officer has remembered something that police departments and academies used to drill relentlessly into every new officer and keep as strict policy, and actually enforce: a continuum-of-force policy. Don't use more force than you're presented with, and less is always better if possible. These days more and more officers immediately go for greater force then the subject presents.


Yup.  From stories I've read and from personal experience, the principle nowadays seems to be: "use whatever level of force you wish that will not get the department in trouble -and by the way, judges never rule against police departments."
 
2013-11-09 04:27:32 PM

F-14Tomcat: Good story. I wish we could clone this guy.


QFT.
 
2013-11-09 04:32:34 PM
Seems like a decent guy.
 
2013-11-09 04:43:38 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Smackledorfer: What do you mean by militarization, and what say does the average cop have i training procedures and other examples of said militarization?

Ah, the cop white-knight's favorite ploy: "They're just following orders".


That isn't what I said. Nice strawman for one, and way to dodge the question for two.

Why do people like you drop to the lowest level of discussion tactics when it is a cop thread?

Iirc you make valid arguments using logic and facts elsewhere. Why throw them away here?
 
2013-11-09 04:45:18 PM

Smackledorfer: The Name: A Dark Evil Omen: CruiserTwelve: A Dark Evil Omen: "Bad cops" ...  not the norm ... "Good cops" [=] "moderate Republicans" ... perfect analogy.


TFA is by the guy who wrote the book about the militarization of law enforcement, and the chief is echoing some of the central ideas in the book, showing he read and understood, which is really good.  Author is left-leaning libertarian ... therefore presumably an entitled Trustafarian who has got his, Jack.

The people you have in mind as moderate R's are not friends of civil liberties and reform or oversight of law enforcement practices.  These causes have better friends on what most see as the fringes of both parties.
 
2013-11-09 04:47:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: Smackledorfer: What do you mean by militarization,

Police departments getting armored personnel carriers for one. Also the expanded use of police in riot gear for non-riot situations.


Do crowd control scenarios count there?

I ask because if we are only talking about militarization of swat teams, there is certainly no 'just following orders' goingonby the rest of the force as Omen claims, nor any input into the running of the swat team by non-swat members I am sure.

What I am focused on here is the poor logic I see when people pull out the whole 'most cops are bad' card and then support it with examples neither participated in by most cops nor controlled or decided by most cops.
 
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