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(Guardian)   Reporter asks British teens what they do online. Obvious tag gets pwned by Scary tag   (theguardian.com) divider line 23
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7922 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Nov 2013 at 12:28 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-09 12:37:25 PM
So, Britain has Tater Jrs too. Not news.
 
2013-11-09 12:49:36 PM
Aside from scarring them for life, what is it the internet does for kids again?

I think I'm going to raise my kids like 'Hanna'. In the middle of the wilderness with an encyclopedia until they are old enough to kill an adult with their bare hands :P
 
2013-11-09 01:51:44 PM

MurphyMurphy: Aside from scarring them for life, what is it the internet does for kids again?

I think I'm going to raise my kids like 'Hanna'. In the middle of the wilderness with an encyclopedia until they are old enough to kill an adult with their bare hands :P


The internet can be great for education.  It's parents that don't monitor(and I don't mean software) their kids that end up with bad things happening(whether their kids are hurt or doing the hurting).

As with most other things, it boils down to bad parenting.

Of course, it's easy to say that when I don't have kids.
 
2013-11-09 01:54:48 PM

MurphyMurphy: Aside from scarring them for life, what is it the internet does for kids again?


It gives them social capital so that they're able to engage in conversation with the rest of their peers.

/not saying kids should have unlimited internet
//but they need some, so they know what everyone else is doing.
 
2013-11-09 02:09:06 PM

Krieghund: MurphyMurphy: Aside from scarring them for life, what is it the internet does for kids again?

It gives them social capital so that they're able to engage in conversation with the rest of their peers.

/not saying kids should have unlimited internet
//but they need some, so they know what everyone else is doing.


You don't need internet to be social.  Internet conversation in any given format actually tends to lend itself towards fuelling a warped view of how people interact.  Be it facebook where people get banal and overconfident, or fark, where half your members are trolling farkwhits, or 4chan and youtube comments....it's all got a bunch of negatives and are in no way able to substitute normal social learning.  They can somewhat replicate the effect, to fulfill the need of people who are incapable of social skill(or those unwilling to be social), indeed, that's why some of it gets so bad.
 
2013-11-09 02:14:12 PM
On Habbo my friend got messages from someone who said he was 12, but he must have been about 40. He was asking her to do certain things. That made her lose trust in people and become more secretive. I don't think she told the police, but I think she told her parents, and went to counselling.

Counselling? Seriously? Great way to make people spend way too much time analysing minor occurrences. I'm willing to bet that the badgering by the counsellor about forced analysis, reliving and introspection about the event added more (lasting) emotional stress than being annoyed by some farkwit for the 5 seconds you need to hit "ignore."
 
2013-11-09 02:24:38 PM

omeganuepsilon: Krieghund: MurphyMurphy: Aside from scarring them for life, what is it the internet does for kids again?

It gives them social capital so that they're able to engage in conversation with the rest of their peers.

/not saying kids should have unlimited internet
//but they need some, so they know what everyone else is doing.

You don't need internet to be social.  Internet conversation in any given format actually tends to lend itself towards fuelling a warped view of how people interact.  Be it facebook where people get banal and overconfident, or fark, where half your members are trolling farkwhits, or 4chan and youtube comments....it's all got a bunch of negatives and are in no way able to substitute normal social learning.  They can somewhat replicate the effect, to fulfill the need of people who are incapable of social skill(or those unwilling to be social), indeed, that's why some of it gets so bad.


This. It's not like lolconversation improves social ability. It is teaching kids pathology.
 
2013-11-09 02:41:36 PM

omeganuepsilon: As with most other things, it boils down to bad parenting.


Parents are first in line to bear blame for their kids actions, yes. But they can rarely be blamed for all their kids actions. If you don't understand this, you have no idea what it is to raise a kid. Whether they just out smart you or catch you with your guard down, kids find a way if they are so inclined.

It doesn't 'boil down' to anything. The kids bear responsibility as well as the parents. As do we. It really does take a village, and if the village decides to have a World Wide Network of Weedlord Bonerhitler flying through the air basically unregulated around their heads 24x7, that's going to have an effect on the kids.

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but don't pretend it's something that just boils down to a parent wagging a finger and saying "now.. no learning about vpn tunnels and surfing redtube when I fall asleep"

Unless you're the most vigilant helicopter parent ever, you aren't going to know everything your kids are doing and you aren't going to be able to protect them from the world. You can and should try, but part of them growing up is out growing those boundaries you try so hard to put in place.

It's just an unfortunate side of our reality. As with any dangerous environment, kids will have to grow up much faster than their parents will want them to due to the exposure to this vast open network spanning all nations, peoples and things.

omeganuepsilon: The internet can be great for education.


It's a tool. It can be if used properly.

It can also be nothing more than a huge distraction. For every bit of info a kid gets on the net that is educating, another may be getting misinformation or something you'd probably rather him/her not getting "educated" on.

Krieghund: It gives them social capital so that they're able to engage in conversation with the rest of their peers.

/not saying kids should have unlimited internet
//but they need some, so they know what everyone else is doing.


Social capital is gained in face to face interaction. It's gained in actual "real life" accomplishments. School, sports, extracurricular. I'm not saying the net is all bad, but very little of real value to a child's growth gained in the real world can be emulated and cultivated through an lcd screen.

Yeah, the kid that doesn't get CoD 7 Modern Shiatstorm first doesn't seem as cool as the rest, but he/she may instead be reading a book that makes him shine in a different and more important light.

"they need some, so they know what everyone else is doing. "

No, they don't.

One shade away from the most terrible things on the internet is the popularity / clique / 'like' me always-connected narcissistic bullshiat machine that seems to embody exactly what people should try to shield their children from (or at least heavily regulate).

Even before the internet we taught kids "dont worry so much about this other bullshiat, the kids are just kids, worry about what matters about yourself and the rest falls into play"
 
2013-11-09 03:31:48 PM
img1.fark.net  tag subby?  Really?

Sounds to me like stuff that just happens, and life moves on.

I don't think the next generation is going to be nearly so concerned about this stuff when it comes to their own kids and the generation after that won't think about it one bit.
 
2013-11-09 04:06:31 PM
Kids lie to adults. News at 11.
 
2013-11-09 04:23:00 PM

MurphyMurphy: The kids bear responsibility as well as the parents.


Bullshiat.  An 8 year old on the internet has no responsibility.

14?  barely a touch more.

MurphyMurphy: Unless you're the most vigilant helicopter parent ever, you aren't going to know everything your kids are doing and you aren't going to be able to protect them from the world.


Seeing as we're talking about internet usage, again, bullshiat.  A kid doesn't *need* internet in his room.  An hour or two a day in the living room is adequate for their *need*, and it doesn't take a helicopter parent to police a good amount of what they do.

MurphyMurphy: I'm not saying we shouldn't, but don't pretend it's something that just boils down to a parent wagging a finger and saying "now.. no learning about vpn tunnels and surfing redtube when I fall asleep"


And I never said that.  Don't pull shiat out of your ass like that, it makes you look like a troll.  That's a reduction to absurdity.  What I recommend is restricted access, not just telling them not to do X.  Of course rules do no good unless you can watch and enforce when they're broken.  The obvious next step for the non-learning disabled is to not give them 24/7 access.

It does indeed boil down to bad parenting.  The actual imbalances, the kids who just happen to be prone to be "bad" kids are actually quite rare.

MurphyMurphy: If you don't understand this, you have no idea what it is to raise a kid.


I do.  Much of a kids actions are also the fault of society, or internet pathology, as you also said, takes a village, etc.  That being said, it is still the parent's ultimate responsibility to care for their child.  If they get exposed to a social group that accepts and applauds douchebaggery and fall into the habit of doing such, it IS the parent's fault.  If the parent permits it passively, or encourages it, it's their fault.  If they did not see the early behavior and try to do something about it, it's their fault.  If they tried and failed, it's still their fault.

I understand in fine detail the responsibilities of parenthood, which is why I opted out, not due to lack of ability, but due to lack of desire and a bit of selfishness.  I come from a very large family and have seen first hand what it takes, in grisly detail, even been requested to help.  It's not my idea of fun at all.

Maybe you should examine your own ability, if you're self aware, you'd have a far better idea of your own shortcomings and faults than you do of some random stranger on the internet with whom you've traded a few dozen words.

Then again, with the human psyche's fascinating ability to rationalize their own flaws, the seeming reality that you're not all that self aware or even rational, it's really no wonder you're resorting to attacking things I haven't said or even implied, filling in the gaps in what I did say with some outrageous imagination.

Yeah, the internet is a bastion of integrity.

Do society a favor and do not procreate.  If you already have, give them up to someone who can deal with responsibility.
 
2013-11-09 04:49:53 PM

omeganuepsilon: MurphyMurphy: The kids bear responsibility as well as the parents.

Bullshiat. An 8 year old on the internet has no responsibility.

14? barely a touch more.


Children tend to rise to the challenge posed to them. If a 5 year old in Peru can be held responsible for herding small, yet vital, animals, or collecting foodstuffs for the family, then an 8 year old or a 14 year old can be held responsible for not being a total idiot with something as trivial as posting on the internet.
 
2013-11-09 05:14:19 PM

omeganuepsilon: MurphyMurphy: The kids bear responsibility as well as the parents.

Bullshiat.  An 8 year old on the internet has no responsibility.

14?  barely a touch more.

MurphyMurphy: Unless you're the most vigilant helicopter parent ever, you aren't going to know everything your kids are doing and you aren't going to be able to protect them from the world.

Seeing as we're talking about internet usage, again, bullshiat.  A kid doesn't *need* internet in his room.  An hour or two a day in the living room is adequate for their *need*, and it doesn't take a helicopter parent to police a good amount of what they do.

MurphyMurphy: I'm not saying we shouldn't, but don't pretend it's something that just boils down to a parent wagging a finger and saying "now.. no learning about vpn tunnels and surfing redtube when I fall asleep"

And I never said that.  Don't pull shiat out of your ass like that, it makes you look like a troll.  That's a reduction to absurdity.  What I recommend is restricted access, not just telling them not to do X.  Of course rules do no good unless you can watch and enforce when they're broken.  The obvious next step for the non-learning disabled is to not give them 24/7 access.

It does indeed boil down to bad parenting.  The actual imbalances, the kids who just happen to be prone to be "bad" kids are actually quite rare.

MurphyMurphy: If you don't understand this, you have no idea what it is to raise a kid.

I do.  Much of a kids actions are also the fault of society, or internet pathology, as you also said, takes a village, etc.  That being said, it is still the parent's ultimate responsibility to care for their child.  If they get exposed to a social group that accepts and applauds douchebaggery and fall into the habit of doing such, it IS the parent's fault.  If the parent permits it passively, or encourages it, it's their fault.  If they did not see the early behavior and try to do something about it, it's their fault.  If they tried and failed, it's s ...


dude, you sound pretty mad
 
2013-11-09 05:15:53 PM

omeganuepsilon: I understand in fine detail the responsibilities of parenthood, which is why I opted out, not due to lack of ability, but due to lack of desire and a bit of selfishness. I come from a very large family and have seen first hand what it takes, in grisly detail, even been requested to help. It's not my idea of fun at all.


"I'm not actually a parent, but I know everything about parenting and my opinion is superior to those who have been parenting first hand!'

And the other person is the a-hole in this conversation. Right...
 
2013-11-09 06:03:58 PM

INeedAName: omeganuepsilon: I understand in fine detail the responsibilities of parenthood, which is why I opted out, not due to lack of ability, but due to lack of desire and a bit of selfishness. I come from a very large family and have seen first hand what it takes, in grisly detail, even been requested to help. It's not my idea of fun at all.

"I'm not actually a parent, but I know everything about parenting and my opinion is superior to those who have been parenting first hand!'

And the other person is the a-hole in this conversation. Right...


Because pregnant women totally know better than male doctors, because they actually carry a child or three.

Instead of you know, studying thousands of cases and having an education on the topic.

Can you imagine a world where people with only anecdotal experience were the only people considered experts?

Something akin to the Dark Ages comes to mind.
 
2013-11-09 06:13:51 PM
I was quite impressed with the fourth one on the list, who turned her cyber-bullying episode around and became a mentor.
 
2013-11-09 06:23:49 PM

DerAppie: omeganuepsilon: MurphyMurphy: The kids bear responsibility as well as the parents.

Bullshiat. An 8 year old on the internet has no responsibility.

14? barely a touch more.

Children tend to rise to the challenge posed to them. If a 5 year old in Peru can be held responsible for herding small, yet vital, animals, or collecting foodstuffs for the family, then an 8 year old or a 14 year old can be held responsible for not being a total idiot with something as trivial as posting on the internet.


Why not let them be doctors or policemen too?

Absurd argument doesn't need a reduction.

Take your argument to all the teen gamers on xbox live who are simply told to behave themselves and then permitted to do as they will.

Almost all kids are told to "not be idiots".  Don't be mean.  How well does that work out in reality?  Not very well.

Even aside from that, if a specific kid does take to not being mean like crazy and is actively nice.  He stands a good chance of becoming victimized.  How many stories of kids who've committed suicide because of other's behavior in the past few years.  Irresponsible parenting on both ends.

No, kids are not all that responsible.  They can do some simple tasks where there's no real bad danger..  But place them in an environment where a bunch of bad shiat happens, even if it's just verbal abuse, and they are either going to participate or be the victim.

Have you not read Lord of the Flies?
Oh noes, a book!

They made a movie about it.  They also did The Experiment, which was realistically based on an actual psychological experiment, which, while a fiasco, did prove a few theories.  Human's are not all that responsible in general.

Pretend all you want, but we're still animals, and without some extensive and knowledgeable effort, we will behave like them and turn our children into them.
 
2013-11-09 07:08:04 PM

MurphyMurphy: It really does take a village, and if the village decides to have a World Wide Network of Weedlord Bonerhitler flying through the air basically unregulated around their heads 24x7, that's going to have an effect on the kids.


What's so bad about my former steam name?
/I now go by Haunted Jizz Rag.
 
2013-11-09 08:49:18 PM

INeedAName: omeganuepsilon: I understand in fine detail the responsibilities of parenthood, which is why I opted out, not due to lack of ability, but due to lack of desire and a bit of selfishness. I come from a very large family and have seen first hand what it takes, in grisly detail, even been requested to help. It's not my idea of fun at all.

"I'm not actually a parent, but I know everything about parenting and my opinion is superior to those who have been parenting first hand!'

And the other person is the a-hole in this conversation. Right...


Kids seem to be getting raped by people they meet online, and using it for nefarious purposes, so perhaps you can cut the "cool stepdad" act for a minute and pay attention.
 
2013-11-10 02:00:40 AM

INeedAName: omeganuepsilon: I understand in fine detail the responsibilities of parenthood, which is why I opted out, not due to lack of ability, but due to lack of desire and a bit of selfishness. I come from a very large family and have seen first hand what it takes, in grisly detail, even been requested to help. It's not my idea of fun at all.

"I'm not actually a parent, but I know everything about parenting and my opinion is superior to those who have been parenting first hand!'

And the other person is the a-hole in this conversation. Right...


I wasn't really paying attention to whatever earlier part of this argument and I have no horse in this race, but I think your counter point is a rather dull point.  Lots of people have had experience doing lots of things, but that does not exactly mean they are good at what they do.

I think in modern times there are more shiatty parents than good.  I don't care if a person has raised 15 kids.  Show me that their children turned to be a boon to society (rather than a useless selfish twit), capable, confident, and self sufficient - I will start to think they might know what they are doing.

You don't need experience to know all things.  I have no experience in sticking my hand in molten steel nor in drinking antifreeze, but remain confident in my knowledge that these are both rather bad ideas which would have unfavorable outcomes.  There is that old saying I will paraphrase.  "Wise men learn from the experience of others, fool learn from personal experience."  One could substitute the "experience of others" for such things as studies, experiments, and other reliable points of data.

Furthermore, that argument of placing "a person who has parented" over "one who has not..." is an argument of who has authority versus what is correct.  It is better to argue matters on factual merit rather than the authority of people.

All this was never about whatever you are disagreeing about and everything about the argument you made and what it reflects.
 
2013-11-10 02:49:45 AM
When I was a teen back in the late 90's i used the internet for two things: browsing robbscelebs.co.uk before the old guy running it died, and downloading star trek fanfic porn stories. I'm sure there was 'useful' things online as well, but i'll be damned if i can remember what they were!

I even remember the uprising of altavista over yahoo, the demise of geocities and the rise of myspace, and every room in the house had a free AOL cd as a cup coaster. And the miracle that was 256kb broadband being widely available and just how lightning fast it felt compared to a 33kb dial up.....

/csb
//man i feel old
///now i complain if my net speed drops below 10mb
 
2013-11-10 05:22:01 AM
i49.photobucket.com

/obvious
 
2013-11-10 06:22:57 AM
pwned? Subby must be 12
 
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