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(Toronto Star)   For Halloween a school vice principal dressed up as Mr T. Apparently some people have a problem with this   (thestar.com) divider line 126
    More: Stupid, vice principal, Halloween, Mr. T  
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9040 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Nov 2013 at 1:05 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-09 03:05:28 PM

rewind2846: Truther: Will we keep slipping further into a world of more and more political correctness?

Vector R: Sadly, because the PC rules surrounding this are utterly retarded,

AngryDragon: Tribalism and political correctness gone wild.

"Political Correctness" = backward whiteguyspeak for "WAHHHHHH! I don't get to say or do the dumb sh*t I used to! I have to actually think before I act! I have to realize that other people don't think as I do! I have to actually try not to be an asshole! THIS IS HARRRRRRRD!"


Does the color of your skin bother you so much that you'd rather see a white guy try to pull off a "white" Mr. T, or do you feel you own the persona of Mr. T? How would you feel about a white guy wearing a Mr. T rubber or plastic mask with accurate skin tone? Im honestly interested in how you feel about this.
 
2013-11-09 03:10:25 PM
After doing some research on the topic, I must admit I was a little ignorant when submitting it. I always thought that "blackface" was about putting on crude dark makeup, leaving plenty of space around the eyes and lips not to conceal your actual skin colour. I also assumed that people did this in a similar fashion as the KKK "ghosts," in order to intimidate minorities.

After some quick Googling, it seems that ANY portrayal of a white person of a black person is considered "blackface," and that for the most part it was used in performing arts and became considered racist during the civil rights movement. It was used usually from a comedic standpoint, to exaggerate personality traits of African-American culture.

I'm do not believe I'm racist, but watching some "blackface" comedy and cartoons on YouTube had me laughing. Perhaps growing up in a very multicultural city and being white has allowed me to have a sheltered life from the evils of racism, but a huge part of comedy is exaggerating aspects of certain things. I consider myself a bit of a nerd, but I am hardly offended by The Big Bang Theory, in fact it is one of my favourite shows. Perhaps as a society we are still too racist, but I do believe that at some point someone of colour will be able to watch those old cartoons and get a good kick out of them.

For what it is worth, if my comments or headline offended anybody of colour in this thread I apologize.
 
2013-11-09 03:10:34 PM

Witness99: rewind2846: Truther: Will we keep slipping further into a world of more and more political correctness?

Vector R: Sadly, because the PC rules surrounding this are utterly retarded,

AngryDragon: Tribalism and political correctness gone wild.

"Political Correctness" = backward whiteguyspeak for "WAHHHHHH! I don't get to say or do the dumb sh*t I used to! I have to actually think before I act! I have to realize that other people don't think as I do! I have to actually try not to be an asshole! THIS IS HARRRRRRRD!"

Does the color of your skin bother you so much that you'd rather see a white guy try to pull off a "white" Mr. T, or do you feel you own the persona of Mr. T? How would you feel about a white guy wearing a Mr. T rubber or plastic mask with accurate skin tone? Im honestly interested in how you feel about this.


Whoa he's black? I assumed he was another white guy doing the "I'm so tolerant I am willing to look like a farking fool to show you" act. Black dude who actually is offended by this needs help
 
2013-11-09 03:22:02 PM

skullkrusher: Do you force your female friends and family members to dress modestly so as to not offend hyper-religious people with their wanton displays of fleshy temptation?


This country has long, long, LONG history with images and stereotypes of black people. Not so much with people whose religion requires them to dress in a certain manner. If the people you mean are Muslims, this is fairly recent, and Muslims who come here from other nations or who are citizens who convert to that religion have this whole "hottie shorts with the ass hanging out" thing in american culture figured out.

Also, being Muslim or "christian" is something that's in your head, and not in your flesh. You can always change your mind, but unless you have a skin condition you're not going to change your color permanently, nor will you change your features without surgery.

Grab a bunch of people at random, dress them in t-shirts and jeans, and find the christian or Muslim or atheist or Jew or New Ager or Hindu or Confucian or Buddhist. Not pick out the black people, the Asian people, the white people, the Indian people, the Hispanic people (yes I know Hispanics come in all colors, so it will be more difficult). But you get the meaning.

Work on that analogy thing. You'll get it.
 
2013-11-09 03:25:30 PM

skullkrusher: Witness99: rewind2846: Truther: Will we keep slipping further into a world of more and more political correctness?

Vector R: Sadly, because the PC rules surrounding this are utterly retarded,

AngryDragon: Tribalism and political correctness gone wild.

"Political Correctness" = backward whiteguyspeak for "WAHHHHHH! I don't get to say or do the dumb sh*t I used to! I have to actually think before I act! I have to realize that other people don't think as I do! I have to actually try not to be an asshole! THIS IS HARRRRRRRD!"

Does the color of your skin bother you so much that you'd rather see a white guy try to pull off a "white" Mr. T, or do you feel you own the persona of Mr. T? How would you feel about a white guy wearing a Mr. T rubber or plastic mask with accurate skin tone? Im honestly interested in how you feel about this.

Whoa he's black? I assumed he was another white guy doing the "I'm so tolerant I am willing to look like a farking fool to show you" act. Black dude who actually is offended by this needs help


I'm not sure what race this particular poster is, but I'm working off the assumption that the black community feels offended by this. I honestly don't know why. The vast spectrum of skin color we have as humans is beautiful and should be celebrated. There are people of all colors to be admired and celebrated (and yes, "white" is a color as well). I don't know why anyone has a problem with someone of any color wanting to portray people of other colors in an admirable, good natured way. Mr. T and his character on the show was pretty awesome.
 
2013-11-09 03:33:18 PM

Electrify: I consider myself a bit of a nerd, but I am hardly offended by The Big Bang Theory, in fact it is one of my favourite shows. Perhaps as a society we are still too racist, but I do believe that at some point someone of colour will be able to watch those old cartoons and get a good kick out of them.


Doubtful. You can always stop being a nerd. Not too many people can stop being black, Asian, white, whatever. It's kind of a done deal once the genetics do their thing, and unfortunately those genetics still determine how you are treated by the society in which you live. This is why these stereotypes are still so offensive... it hasn't been that long (within my lifetime) that they were freely and profusely used as comedic devices, and there are still too many white people who hold the beliefs put forth in these denigrating depictions as fact.

Maybe once these stereotypes are no longer held up as examples for why people of color should be treated differently from those in the majority people can watch these cartoons and "get a good kick out of them". That day hasn't come yet, because when people of color see them they are reminded not only of how things were in the very recent past but how they still, in a lesser way, are today.
 
2013-11-09 03:33:55 PM

rewind2846: skullkrusher: Do you force your female friends and family members to dress modestly so as to not offend hyper-religious people with their wanton displays of fleshy temptation?

This country has long, long, LONG history with images and stereotypes of black people. Not so much with people whose religion requires them to dress in a certain manner. If the people you mean are Muslims, this is fairly recent, and Muslims who come here from other nations or who are citizens who convert to that religion have this whole "hottie shorts with the ass hanging out" thing in american culture figured out.

Also, being Muslim or "christian" is something that's in your head, and not in your flesh. You can always change your mind, but unless you have a skin condition you're not going to change your color permanently, nor will you change your features without surgery.

Grab a bunch of people at random, dress them in t-shirts and jeans, and find the christian or Muslim or atheist or Jew or New Ager or Hindu or Confucian or Buddhist. Not pick out the black people, the Asian people, the white people, the Indian people, the Hispanic people (yes I know Hispanics come in all colors, so it will be more difficult). But you get the meaning.

Work on that analogy thing. You'll get it.


Perhaps if you weren't trying to be offended you'd find more people more willing to sympathize with you. Does this country have a long history of racism that persists to this day? Yes. Is a white guy dressing as Mr T in any way an example of that racism? Fark no. He didnt dress as a stereotype. he didnt act minstrelly. He dressed as a hugely popular character we all grew up loving as kids. Probably walked around saying shiat like "I pity the fool who runs in the hall." Stop trying to be offended and you'll find more supporters when you actually have a reason to be.
 
2013-11-09 03:36:42 PM

Witness99: skullkrusher: Witness99: rewind2846: Truther: Will we keep slipping further into a world of more and more political correctness?

Vector R: Sadly, because the PC rules surrounding this are utterly retarded,

AngryDragon: Tribalism and political correctness gone wild.

"Political Correctness" = backward whiteguyspeak for "WAHHHHHH! I don't get to say or do the dumb sh*t I used to! I have to actually think before I act! I have to realize that other people don't think as I do! I have to actually try not to be an asshole! THIS IS HARRRRRRRD!"

Does the color of your skin bother you so much that you'd rather see a white guy try to pull off a "white" Mr. T, or do you feel you own the persona of Mr. T? How would you feel about a white guy wearing a Mr. T rubber or plastic mask with accurate skin tone? Im honestly interested in how you feel about this.

Whoa he's black? I assumed he was another white guy doing the "I'm so tolerant I am willing to look like a farking fool to show you" act. Black dude who actually is offended by this needs help

I'm not sure what race this particular poster is, but I'm working off the assumption that the black community feels offended by this. I honestly don't know why. The vast spectrum of skin color we have as humans is beautiful and should be celebrated. There are people of all colors to be admired and celebrated (and yes, "white" is a color as well). I don't know why anyone has a problem with someone of any color wanting to portray people of other colors in an admirable, good natured way. Mr. T and his character on the show was pretty awesome.


Exactly. This wasn't a random
black guy he was dressing as and breaking out stereotypes. He was dressed as Mr Farking T.
 
2013-11-09 03:41:08 PM

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: AngryDragon: Remember kids.

THIS is racist.

[www.thestar.com image 545x365]

THIS is not.

[i.imgur.com image 299x444]

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 335x475]

Don't forget this one.   We never got the sequel because "that's racist!"

It was to be called "Black Men Can't Swim"


I thought is was called "Black Men Can't Get Credit"
 
2013-11-09 03:56:19 PM

skullkrusher: Perhaps if you weren't trying to be offended you'd find more people more willing to sympathize with you. Does this country have a long history of racism that persists to this day?


See, this is where you miss the whole point, as it shoots by without disturbing a single hair. I'm old enough to remember the separate water fountains, the back of the bus, the balcony seats in the movie theater, even as a small child. And you know what? The people who had to endure all that and more are still here. They haven't gone away. This is not as much "history" as those who would like to dismiss others feelings would like it to be, especially as long as there are those alive who remember.

My father is still around... he's 76 years old, and grew up in North Carolina. He showed me where he went to school (across the tracks) where he played, and where he was regularly spit on and had things thrown at him as he walked to school by the white kids in the shiny new school bus they rode in to their classes while he walked the 3 miles to his. Also, the whites of the town wouldn't allow the building he took classes in to be called a "high school" because they didn't want any "confusion" with the school their children attended... it was called a "training academy" instead.

The issue though is not just that the racist beliefs codified in these stereotypical portrayals are what "used to be", but that they are still what too many believe NOW. The history of this crap is still way too recent to just be brushed off as anachronistic noise by those who lived it.

But of course those who never experienced it or had their parents or grandparents go through it would not understand as well. It's one thing to read about this in a history book, putting boundaries of time and experience between you and understanding... but it's a whole different experience to look into the eyes of a person who's had the experience as they tell you "how it was".
 
2013-11-09 04:02:55 PM

rewind2846: skullkrusher: Perhaps if you weren't trying to be offended you'd find more people more willing to sympathize with you. Does this country have a long history of racism that persists to this day?

See, this is where you miss the whole point, as it shoots by without disturbing a single hair. I'm old enough to remember the separate water fountains, the back of the bus, the balcony seats in the movie theater, even as a small child. And you know what? The people who had to endure all that and more are still here. They haven't gone away. This is not as much "history" as those who would like to dismiss others feelings would like it to be, especially as long as there are those alive who remember.

My father is still around... he's 76 years old, and grew up in North Carolina. He showed me where he went to school (across the tracks) where he played, and where he was regularly spit on and had things thrown at him as he walked to school by the white kids in the shiny new school bus they rode in to their classes while he walked the 3 miles to his. Also, the whites of the town wouldn't allow the building he took classes in to be called a "high school" because they didn't want any "confusion" with the school their children attended... it was called a "training academy" instead.

The issue though is not just that the racist beliefs codified in these stereotypical portrayals are what "used to be", but that they are still what too many believe NOW. The history of this crap is still way too recent to just be brushed off as anachronistic noise by those who lived it.

But of course those who never experienced it or had their parents or grandparents go through it would not understand as well. It's one thing to read about this in a history book, putting boundaries of time and experience between you and understanding... but it's a whole different experience to look into the eyes of a person who's had the experience as they tell you "how it was".


And if a guy dressing in costume that resembles nothing like blackface dredges up old memories the problem is with you and not white dudes wanting to be assholes. I get what you're saying, you are just making too much of an incredible leap to get there.
 
2013-11-09 04:09:33 PM

Rembrant_Q_Einstein: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: AngryDragon: Remember kids.

THIS is racist.

[www.thestar.com image 545x365]

THIS is not.

[i.imgur.com image 299x444]

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 335x475]

Don't forget this one.   We never got the sequel because "that's racist!"

It was to be called "Black Men Can't Swim"

I thought is was called "Black Men Can't Get Credit"


No, it was called "Black Men Don't Pay Child Support".
 
2013-11-09 04:40:57 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: Rembrant_Q_Einstein: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: AngryDragon: Remember kids.

THIS is racist.

[www.thestar.com image 545x365]

THIS is not.

[i.imgur.com image 299x444]

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 335x475]

Don't forget this one.   We never got the sequel because "that's racist!"

It was to be called "Black Men Can't Swim"

I thought is was called "Black Men Can't Get Credit"

No, it was called "Black Men Don't Pay Child Support".


This is what bigotry looks like, rewind
 
2013-11-09 04:42:02 PM

rewind2846: skullkrusher: Perhaps if you weren't trying to be offended you'd find more people more willing to sympathize with you. Does this country have a long history of racism that persists to this day?

See, this is where you miss the whole point, as it shoots by without disturbing a single hair. I'm old enough to remember the separate water fountains, the back of the bus, the balcony seats in the movie theater, even as a small child. And you know what? The people who had to endure all that and more are still here. They haven't gone away. This is not as much "history" as those who would like to dismiss others feelings would like it to be, especially as long as there are those alive who remember.

My father is still around... he's 76 years old, and grew up in North Carolina. He showed me where he went to school (across the tracks) where he played, and where he was regularly spit on and had things thrown at him as he walked to school by the white kids in the shiny new school bus they rode in to their classes while he walked the 3 miles to his. Also, the whites of the town wouldn't allow the building he took classes in to be called a "high school" because they didn't want any "confusion" with the school their children attended... it was called a "training academy" instead.

The issue though is not just that the racist beliefs codified in these stereotypical portrayals are what "used to be", but that they are still what too many believe NOW. The history of this crap is still way too recent to just be brushed off as anachronistic noise by those who lived it.

But of course those who never experienced it or had their parents or grandparents go through it would not understand as well. It's one thing to read about this in a history book, putting boundaries of time and experience between you and understanding... but it's a whole different experience to look into the eyes of a person who's had the experience as they tell you "how it was".


I understand what you're saying, but don't take your hurt out in the wrong place. There is nothing stereotypically black or derogatory about Mr. T. He could have been a tattooed white guy and pulled off the same character.

My heartfelt advice to you is to stop seeking reasons why you're being held back, or stop seeking reasons to hate a system that is no longer effective in "keeping minorities down." I'm sorry for what your dad went through, but it's not like that anymore. If you insist on living in the past, it will become your self fulfilling prophecy. As a hiring manager, I can guarantee you we go out of our way to hire minorities with drive and education. You actually have an advantage. Stop living in your father's past. Stop playing the victim.
 
2013-11-09 04:54:40 PM

rewind2846: skullkrusher: Perhaps if you weren't trying to be offended you'd find more people more willing to sympathize with you. Does this country have a long history of racism that persists to this day?

See, this is where you miss the whole point, as it shoots by without disturbing a single hair. I'm old enough to remember the separate water fountains, the back of the bus, the balcony seats in the movie theater, even as a small child. And you know what? The people who had to endure all that and more are still here. They haven't gone away. This is not as much "history" as those who would like to dismiss others feelings would like it to be, especially as long as there are those alive who remember.

My father is still around... he's 76 years old, and grew up in North Carolina. He showed me where he went to school (across the tracks) where he played, and where he was regularly spit on and had things thrown at him as he walked to school by the white kids in the shiny new school bus they rode in to their classes while he walked the 3 miles to his. Also, the whites of the town wouldn't allow the building he took classes in to be called a "high school" because they didn't want any "confusion" with the school their children attended... it was called a "training academy" instead.

The issue though is not just that the racist beliefs codified in these stereotypical portrayals are what "used to be", but that they are still what too many believe NOW. The history of this crap is still way too recent to just be brushed off as anachronistic noise by those who lived it.

But of course those who never experienced it or had their parents or grandparents go through it would not understand as well. It's one thing to read about this in a history book, putting boundaries of time and experience between you and understanding... but it's a whole different experience to look into the eyes of a person who's had the experience as they tell you "how it was".


And if it helps put things in perspective, I'm the daughter of a single mom stripper. I started working at 11 (ice cream shop, not stripping) and put myself through college. I have found that feeling disadvantaged or sorry for myself never served any purpose. Take charge!
 
2013-11-09 05:12:58 PM

Rembrant_Q_Einstein: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: AngryDragon: Remember kids.

THIS is racist.

[www.thestar.com image 545x365]

THIS is not.

[i.imgur.com image 299x444]

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 335x475]

Don't forget this one.   We never got the sequel because "that's racist!"

It was to be called "Black Men Can't Swim"

I thought is was called "Black Men Can't Get Credit"


I thought it was "Yellow Men Can't Drive" and the third installment was going to be "Red Men Can't Drink".

/try the veal
 
2013-11-09 05:58:07 PM
Personally, I feel if you're dressing up as a black person, then it's "black face" and inappropriate.
If you're dressing up as a specific black person then it's fine.

Case in point: Billy Crystal as Sammy Davis Jr.
 
2013-11-09 06:41:55 PM

Truther: Why? I know you can't answer this, but why should he have known better?

Will we keep slipping further into a world of more and more political correctness?


When the Supreme Court doesn't neuter the Voting Rights Act, and states don't immediately make it harder to vote?
 
2013-11-09 06:55:24 PM

Witness99: Stop living in your father's past.


And here we have another who doesn't get it. I'm not living my father's past... he lives in it himself just fine, thank you. I'm living in MY past, because that is where people draw their experiences from. While I was fortunate enough not to have experienced racism in the heaping quantities that my father did, partially as a consequence of his moving my family north while I was still a child, as I said before this is not as much about what happened THEN as what is still happening NOW.

If people of color weren't being dragged behind trucks NOW this would not be as much an issue.
If people of color weren't being pulled over by cops for being in the "wrong neighborhood" NOW this would not be as much an issue.
If people of color weren't purposely denied their voting rights NOW this would not be as much an issue.
If people of color weren't being still being turned away from employment because their name was too "ethnic" on their resumes NOW this would not be as much an issue.
If people of color didn't have to deal with harassment from their employers because of their natural hairstyles NOW this would not be as much an issue.

And so on. Basically, if I could have to go through one day in my life where I'm not reminded of the color of my skin and all that implies in this society, this would not be so much an issue. That day has not happened yet. From the white woman who clutches her purse in the elevator to the guy at the store who watches me like a hawk while white people rob him blind, that day has not come.

If NOW weren't still happening, THEN wouldn't be so much an issue.
 
2013-11-09 08:12:20 PM

rewind2846: If people of color weren't being dragged behind trucks NOW this would not be as much an issue.


Are you really gonna use moral equivalency of murder to a guy dressing up as Mr.T on Halloween?

Perspective...get some.
 
2013-11-09 10:27:18 PM

mr lawson: rewind2846: If people of color weren't being dragged behind trucks NOW this would not be as much an issue.

Are you really gonna use moral equivalency of murder to a guy dressing up as Mr.T on Halloween?

Perspective...get some.


Everything ties into everything else. It wasn't just "a murder" for the same reason the deaths of millions of European Jews weren't "just murders", the deaths of thousands of Cambodians at the hands of the Khmer Rouge weren't "just murders", or the millions who died at Stalin's hands weren't "just murders". Context is everything. History is important. Crack a farking book.

Clue. Get one.
 
2013-11-09 10:32:48 PM

rewind2846: Context is everything.


Please enlighten us all on the context connection between dressing up as Mr. T for Halloween and murder.
 
2013-11-09 11:27:53 PM
...Mr. T is black?
 
2013-11-10 12:58:39 AM

skullkrusher: That said, a school VP should have better sense to know that such people do exist and are very whiny/vocal and should avoid courting such controversy even though it is wholly, undeniably, unarguably, at holy shiat STFU levels of unjustifiability


That's kind of my take on it. He didn't mean to be offensive, but he came off as such to enough people that it got reported to the school board and the media. The implication in the stories is that this is more than just one or two people with sandy vaginas that got offended by this. I doubt that it's the whole school banding together to report him, mind you.

The topic of racism vs oversensitivity/paranoia does need to be broached. Just not in a public school by the vice principal. That's an area where people can and will lose their jobs by either getting outright fired or pressured heavily to resign. It's an area of open landmines and that's not the proper place for a costume that is very likely to offend a lot of people. I think that what probably irritated a lot of people is that the guy didn't seem to have actually taken any of this into account when he designed the costume. It's foolish and again, a high school is not the place to rock boats.
 
2013-11-10 02:16:43 AM
rewind2846:
And so on. Basically, if I could have to go through one day in my life where I'm not reminded of the color of my skin and all that implies in this society, this would not be so much an issue. That day has not happened yet. From the white woman who clutches her purse in the elevator to the guy at the store who watches me like a hawk while white people rob him blind, that day has not come.

shiat, clutching a purse? I once saw a white girl walking toward me catch sight of me, stop in her tracks, turn around, and hurry off in the opposite direction just to avoid walking past me down the OTHER side of the street. To be fair, it was at night and no one else was around, but damn, she looked like she'd seen a werewolf.
 
2013-11-10 03:52:11 AM

boinkingbill: WhyKnot: Clearly his costume would have been more appropriate if the would have jut gone as a white dude with a Mohawk and chains.   His costume would have sucked, but as least a few people in the community and on the internet wouldn't find insensitive.

Maybe just maybe we have taken being politically correct too far.

Mohawk?  That is the American Indian version of black face.


"You can't use that hair. That's OUR hair."
 
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