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(The Register)   The world's first gun 3D printed in metal. It's more accurate than factory made guns, especially in the hands of a convicted felon who hears voices   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 162
    More: Cool, El Reg, convicted felon, metals  
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13700 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Nov 2013 at 1:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-09 09:29:19 AM  

AngryDragon: Turbo Cojones: cirby: sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.

Why do people cling to the belief that private gun sellers at gun shows run background checks?  Cash is King, and none of them give a crap what on plan on doing with that gun later.

If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.

In my state you are required to have a purchase permit for a handgun purchase from a private seller.  That permit includes a background check.  The only exceptions are purchasing from a Class 1 FFL dealer, who will run a background check at time of purchase or holding a valid CPL.  CPL carriers are checked out more than police applicants.

So your exception is not universal.  You will not walk out of a gun show with a firearms here without having been checked out.


Since you all got my ass paged here I will comment.

That seems like the correct way to do it.  Putting enforcement of gun laws on the seller just adds yet another thing with heavy punishments gun owners have to deal with if they make a small mistake on a transaction they might only do once every ten years.

No one cars the fact that you can buy a car with a suspended license the 'car dealer' loophole.
 
2013-11-09 09:47:06 AM  
I just wanted to point out that the people biatching about heat quenching have literally no idea how laser sintering works.
 
2013-11-09 09:48:22 AM  
Turbo Cojones:
If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.


So, for your example of the "gun show loophole", you cite... buying guns from private sellers NOT at gun shows? Not very convincing.

While it's possible to find individuals selling guns at some gun shows, what you usually find are a bunch of people selling as dealers - and doing background checks. The handful of private sellers are usually trying to get rid of collector's weapons at fairly high prices - and most of them do their official sales through local gun shops. Which means - again - background checks.

While it's possible to sometime buy weapons at gun shows without going through background checks, it's much, much easier to get them through actual illicit means. Like black-market dealers. Or from the ATF (if you're a Mexican drug lord).
 
2013-11-09 09:49:33 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.


0/10 I couldn't even bother finishing reading it.
 
2013-11-09 09:52:58 AM  

Begoggle: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

0/10 I couldn't even bother finishing reading it.


Here's the TL;DR: Derp.
 
2013-11-09 09:54:54 AM  
World's first 3D-printed metal gun 'more accurate' than factory-built cousin
Don't worry, you can't make one of these at home


World's first 3D-printed cheesecake 'more delicious' than restaurant-made cousin
Don't worry, you can't bake one of these at home

World's first 3D-printed inflatable girlfriend 'more beautiful' than  Akihabara-built cousin
Don't worry, you can't inflate one of these at home

Nope, headline still doesn't make sense.
 
2013-11-09 09:57:15 AM  
Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?
 
2013-11-09 10:00:12 AM  

DesertEagle: Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?


Exactly.  It's not the law-abiding that are illegally or unethically transferring firearms.  I know I would want a firearm registered to me, sold for a couple hundred quick bucks and no paperwork, to be used in a felony.  I'm certain the UFIA treatment that would follow would be totally worth it.
 
2013-11-09 10:04:59 AM  

gameshowhost: The springs aren't printed! HA! ARTICLE LOSES BY TKO.


If you could design it so that the parts that can't be printed are extremely common and easy to get via hardware stores, that would be cool enough.
 
2013-11-09 10:08:03 AM  

BitwiseShift: onions were sold in finer men's accessories departments in downtown stores.


You must make one hell of a seasoning.
 
2013-11-09 10:09:56 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long
 
2013-11-09 10:13:08 AM  

otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long


What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.
 
2013-11-09 10:17:17 AM  

redly1: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

because we ALL have access to 3D metal printers in the first place


When I was a kid (and I'm not all that old really) I remember that a lot of people still didn't have color TV.

Now, I can watch entire movies wirelessly on my phone.

Just saying.

CheatCommando: Evil Twin Skippy: Not something that could be done easily or cheaply by 3d printing.

NASA is planning to 3D print the combustion chambers and injectors of the updated F-1 which require materials and exposure to corrosion well beyond anything in a puny little gun, so I think you left off a very important word from that sentence: yet. This is getting damn close to being an engineering problem, not a science one and those usually get solved. And after that, they usually start to get cheaper. At this point printing those parts is already going to be cheaper and more reliable than the old fashioned hand welding methods.


I think this is pretty much already an engineering problem. I mean, really, this technology has been around for years - we are just starting to get more exposure to it because of the boom in home 3d printing hobbyists.

Honestly, it's a very attractive technology for manufacturers. It allows you to quickly "retool" a production line without having to invest capital (a lot of people who bemoan the per unit cost of manufacturing don't really understand the differences in capex and opex from a business point of view).
 
2013-11-09 10:24:43 AM  

NickelP: otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long

What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.


If the law doesn't address it yet, it will soon.
 
2013-11-09 10:25:38 AM  

TwistedFark: redly1: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

because we ALL have access to 3D metal printers in the first place

When I was a kid (and I'm not all that old really) I remember that a lot of people still didn't have color TV.

Now, I can watch entire movies wirelessly on my phone.

Just saying.


The next step is a handheld high-velocity bullet printer. Imagine printing a .45 caliber bullet at 1000 feet per second.
 
2013-11-09 10:28:41 AM  
The important thing is that technobevets is making friends and getting much needed social interaction.
 
2013-11-09 10:30:18 AM  
The One True TheDavid:

IBM made guns?


Yup, they made the M1 Carbines during WW2.  As did Underwood.  Like Pinball? Rockola made 'em too.  And quite a few companies made 1911s as well - like Singer (the sewing machine folks).
 
2013-11-09 10:42:54 AM  

plausdeny: thisisyourbrainonFark: Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.

If you can legally own a Glock 23, you sure as hell can own an AK-47.  In fact, if you pay for the tax stamp, there's no legal reason why you couldn't own a fully automatic version of the AK-47, assuming you have $16K to get a transferable one and you state doesn't have some bullshiat laws preventing you.

And what's the FTA?  Is that your way of coming out of the closet as a full retard?  You never go full retard, man.  Not in public.


I'm not the one who will be back-traced, you are.
 
2013-11-09 10:50:20 AM  

GungFu: Meh. Wake me up when we can do 4D printing.


You overslept and missed a TED talk from earlier this year.
 
2013-11-09 11:07:59 AM  

rev. dave: So instead of new inventions, this is all people care about with those printers.  They will be banned soon.



They can have my 3-D printer when they pry it from my cold dead Wi-Fi connection!
 
2013-11-09 11:19:25 AM  
This is not new. Remember the Welrod? It was basically a zip gun with a pistol grip.

world.guns.ru
 
2013-11-09 11:44:00 AM  

Fubini: They say it's more accurate, but I'm thinking they compared the performance of this gun to a random sample of the mass produced version. This gun has probably gotten a lot more love and attention than the average assembly line gun.

That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.


it's accuracy compared to the abs plastic piece of shiat is probably orders of magnitude better

and it might not explode in your hand
 
2013-11-09 11:47:06 AM  

veistran: If you read some of the comments about the machine used to print the parts I believe the fun quote from someone at solidworks was that it cost more than their four years of tution to a private university. So not exactly something easily obtained and then the engineering that went into prototyping the parts was apparently a good number of highly skilled manhours. Definitely something that is a lot more about building the business for rapid prototyped gunparts and justifying the ffl they have than anything else.


so one hell of an advertising campaign for the company

Hell Id like just an objet just so I can show clients what their finished parts should look like
 
2013-11-09 11:57:28 AM  
What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.
 
2013-11-09 12:00:45 PM  

loonatic112358: veistran: If you read some of the comments about the machine used to print the parts I believe the fun quote from someone at solidworks was that it cost more than their four years of tution to a private university. So not exactly something easily obtained and then the engineering that went into prototyping the parts was apparently a good number of highly skilled manhours. Definitely something that is a lot more about building the business for rapid prototyped gunparts and justifying the ffl they have than anything else.

so one hell of an advertising campaign for the company

Hell Id like just an objet just so I can show clients what their finished parts should look like


for one.  How do those figured work out if you open it to the public and start selling them for a few grand piece?  With all the idiot teabaggers and gun nuts there has to be a market for that.
 
2013-11-09 12:01:01 PM  

i.r.id10t: The One True TheDavid:

IBM made guns?


Yup, they made the M1 Carbines during WW2.  As did Underwood.  Like Pinball? Rockola made 'em too.  And quite a few companies made 1911s as well - like Singer (the sewing machine folks).


Remington has made typewriters, guns, and electric shavers.
 
2013-11-09 12:03:14 PM  

bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.


This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.
 
2013-11-09 12:05:43 PM  

robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',


Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.
 
2013-11-09 12:08:00 PM  

NickelP: otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long

What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.


Yeah that is pretty much already happening, except with 80% lowers and CNC mills. It's perfectly legal as far as the ATF is concerned. It might vary from state to state, but that build party thread is taking place in Cali, which isn't exactly known for its gun friendliness.

http://monderno.com/monderno/legally-build-an-unregistered-ar-15/
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=739418
 
2013-11-09 12:11:16 PM  

Publikwerks: The One True TheDavid: Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.

Um, could somebody print me a kitten?

You're gonna need a meat printer


NOOOOO!!! Kitties ain't meat, they's cuddles!!

People are meat.
 
2013-11-09 12:11:36 PM  

Z-clipped: robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',

Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.


Usually its the opposite from what I've noticed. There is a knee-jerk reaction by pro gun control to restrict this. I remember that much from when the Liberator was made earlier this year.
 
2013-11-09 12:13:03 PM  
Did anyone else notice the multi-shot action is extremely rough?  I can't speak to the accuracy, but I can GUARANTEE you that gun isn't going to be capable of firing a full magazine until a gun smith gets his hands on it.

All in all, it's an impressive advertisement for the company that made it, and hardly more than that.  The gun itself is not impressive in action.
 
2013-11-09 12:16:46 PM  

Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.


No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.
 
2013-11-09 12:24:56 PM  

redmid17: Z-clipped: robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',

Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.

Usually its the opposite from what I've noticed. There is a knee-jerk reaction by pro gun control to restrict this. I remember that much from when the Liberator was made earlier this year.


If you go back and look at the earliest 3D printing articles, you'll find a lot of what I'm talking about, even in the headlines.

The push to regulate models is relatively recent. It's also idiotic and pointless, since it would be impossible to implement, and solves a non-existent problem anyway.
 
2013-11-09 12:26:37 PM  

Stone Meadow: The One True TheDavid: Um, could somebody print me a kitten?

No, but how about something more useful, like replacement human organs from your own cells?

https://www.google.com/#q=3d+print+human+organs


But my cells are probably broken from years of various abuses. Isn't the point supposed to improvement?

Maybe Wil Wheaton could spare a few. He seems like such a sensible young man.
 
2013-11-09 12:40:25 PM  

Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.


Things you would,t understand. Things you could,t understand. Things you should,t understand. He ,s a loner, zclipped. A rebel.
 
2013-11-09 12:56:01 PM  

DesertEagle: Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?


No, you don't. The ATF does background checks, but they are REQUIRED BY LAW to throw out that information within a few days, so as not to create a national gun registration system (which is the only thing between America and Hitler's Germany, apparently). Dealers have to keep a log of sales, but private individuals are under no federal rules, other than you can't knowingly sell to a person who doesn't live in your state. I bought a couple guns once from a guy who advertised them in the newspaper classifieds, and neither of us even knows the other's name.

Your state laws may vary, but the easiest way in the world to illegally buy a gun is to get one from a classified ad in a state with lax or nonexistent gun laws, such as Georgia.
 
2013-11-09 01:03:00 PM  

NickelP: bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.

This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.


That would be reasonably neato, but very few car parts are made just from metal; they come pre-assembled with rubber, plastic and electrical parts. The supply of simple metal parts generally comes from wrecked vehicles. Additive manufacturing will eventually be a much bigger deal, but the current "resolution" of "printed" parts means you still have to finish, clean, polish and heat treat them. Building a working differential is a stunt, not something anywhere close to being practical.
 
2013-11-09 01:05:29 PM  

Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.


I'm not really worried, ever. The common assertion is that anybody can get their hands on a firearm anytime they want to. How does this change that equation? With luck, people will latch on to this and 3-D print all kinds of defective firearms that will either blow up in their faces or fire once and break like some El-Cheapo Jennings/Raven/Lorcin/Jimenez piece.

Crime of all sorts has been diminishing for 20+ years. It's time to stop wringing our hands about the huge amount of crime in the US. It's never been lower. Quit being afraid of the bogeyman.
 
2013-11-09 01:20:30 PM  
What is 3D printed metal? A CNC machine?  L...O...L
 
2013-11-09 01:30:29 PM  
The (alleged) Federal rules about gun shows are here: http://usgovinfo.about.com/blgunshow.htm

Does "about.com" qualify as a valid reliable source?

Snippets pertinent to this discussion:


NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE:
MAY
acquire long guns and handguns from FFLs licensed in this state.
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state.
CANNOT acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed resident of any other state.


So would a paragraph like "I ________ hereby assert that I am a resident of the state of Kentucky and that I am not (list of disqualifications) thus forbidden to buy or own a firearm in Kentucky" cover a private seller's ass just in case? And would a Bill of Sale, perhaps printed out using an online sample, be legally regarded as valid proof of transfer of ownership?

Clearly private persons can't carry out background checks but it would be nice to show that the guy said he was legal anyway. Copying down info from the buyer's drivers license is probably a good idea, or would you have to scan it?

I do know that Kentucky doesn't require people who aren't disqualified from owning guns to register them, you just need a permit to carry them concealed. It's legal to carry a gun openly, say to hang a big .45 on your belt, but almost nobody does it; I picture dozens of cell phone users interrupting their texting while driving to flood 911 with "EEEK! There's A GUY WITH A GUN walking down Broadway!"

Which could get a person legally shot by a cop or six if s/he interprets any move the arms-bearer makes as "threatening." Or if the person doesn't hear the specific order because of being hard of hearing and/or a loud truck going by. The safest thing to do when you see a cop coming toward you with "that look" is to show willingness to comply with lawful authority by immediately going spread-eagle on the ground anyway. The old attitude of "I'm doing nothing wrong and the LEO is just another citizen doing a job" might well be taken as a challenge, while being flat on your face is probably just as good as "Leaning against the wall!" or whatever the order that you might not hear or understand might be.

However it could be overkill to supplement total prostration by squealing "Please don't shoot me! I can't hear you! My hearing aid's broken! Please don't shoot me!" At least in the daytime.

But it's hard to know for sure what can get you legally summarily executed because so few cases are resolved against the LEO. It might well work in your favor to be a black person running away from the cop in broad daylight with hundreds of witnesses, but even then it'd take major public pressure to keep the cop's "I felt threatened!" from flying by default.

And it's funny to hear people complain about Lexington KY's "high crime rate" because local cops have seem to have so little to do it's rare to see fewer than three cop cars showing up for every call, and lights & sirens seem a standard feature. Which of course raises the adrenaline rate in itself, regardless of what the call is about.

So I can't picture any ordinary citizen getting away with exercising the right to carry openly without first flagging down a cop to present one's photo ID and volunteer for a wants/warrants check just in case. "Just so somebody on duty will know something about those MAN WITH GUN!!! calls from people who are not aware of our rights under the constitutions and laws of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the USA."

IANALOLEO, SYMMV. IYKWIM. HAND!
 
2013-11-09 01:56:26 PM  

Fano: Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.

Things you would,t understand. Things you could,t understand. Things you should,t understand. He ,s a loner, zclipped. A rebel.


Uhh... ok? I didn't say I LIKED the guy, or that he isn't a troll and an attention whore. I just said he's correct. If there's one lesson to be learned from Fark, it's that being an asshole and being correct aren't mutually exclusive.
 
2013-11-09 02:15:47 PM  
The first horseless carriage wasn't a corvette.

Give these printers about fifty years to evolve.

Then see what they can do.
 
2013-11-09 02:42:09 PM  

mbillips: NickelP: bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.

This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.

That would be reasonably neato, but very few car parts are made just from metal; they come pre-assembled with rubber, plastic and electrical parts. The supply of simple metal parts generally comes from wrecked vehicles. Additive manufacturing will eventually be a much bigger deal, but the current "resolution" of "printed" parts means you still have to finish, clean, polish and heat treat them. Building a working differential is a stunt, not something anywhere close to being practical.


No reason a really sophisticated printer could not fabricate a metal core gasket - build it from inside out - all it takes is the correct feedstocks and application mechanism.

Heat treating and such is another issue, but still - it could mean the end of warehousing gazillions of replacement parts for many industries, replaced by Universal Pantographs.

No, making anything will take a long time but there's a lot of uses for the ability to cheaply and quickly make 1 or 5 of something.

Such applications may not be needed or cost effective in Middle America, but how about in the Antartic, or remote islands or other military uses, already talking about uses in space - how about printing out a space station.

How about printing out a space elevator, using carbon fiber feedstocks or nanotubes, whatever the current material de jour is for that proposal?
 
2013-11-09 02:59:28 PM  
Remember that episode of The Next Generation, where some special engineer does something to the engines with the Traveller, and he gets mad at Picard saying, "Don't talk about me as if I'm not right here!"

I always think QA has that going through his head.
 
2013-11-09 03:08:42 PM  
FTA:

"The company was able to build the gun legally because it has a federal license for the manufacturing of firearms."

While this may be true, it is not technically correct; the company would be legally able to SELL the 3D printed firearm, as they have a manufacturers license from the ATF.

Any US citizen, who may legal possess said firearm, would be allowed to manufacture a firearm, as long as that firearm were a legally ownable firearm. Fabricating the lower receiver of an AR-15 (the part which constitutes a "firearm") would be perfectly legal, whereas the receiver of an M16 (with a select fire trigger/sear group) would not be legal.

Oddly enough, the fabrication of either of those constitutes the same physical characteristics, as it's the guts of the receiver that makes the distinction between legal and illegal; to whit, the receiver of the AR-15 is identical to the M-16. A better example would be the creation of the legal AR-15 receiver versus the creation of say, the receiver of... Hmm, offhand, I can't think of a platform that is fully automatic, without the possibility of an alternative select fire configuration.

Honestly, anyone with the ability to manufacture the lower would have the ability to fabricate and install the full auto trigger group; the only thing that would keep them from doing so is the fact that it would be illegal to do so.

And even that "illegal" aspect only extends as far as the acquisition of a class 3 tax transfer stamp from the ATF (as provided for in the National Firearms Act of 1934), and pursuant to local registration and approval. Though that allows for the purchase and legal ownership of 'existing' existing firearms (and suppressors), it doesn't apply to someone who wants to make their own machinegun.

Finally, it's worth noting that the law is applicable to only the last 20% of the manufacturing process. This means that one can legally purchase a lower receiver which has had 80% of the milling completed, and finish off the remaining 20% of the process to create their own lower. Before you mill out that last 4 or 5 ounces of aluminum, you're essentially the owner of a billet of aluminum with the legal status of a paperweight.

On another note, the question of heat treating the components of a firearm; there are various components of a firearm which require differing levels of hardening, treating, annealing, and/or coating/anodizing. Any and all of these processes may be successfully accomplished by an individual with a modicum of research, education, training and safety (and, of course, cash) in their own workspace. None of these processes are magic, and quite honestly, have been practiced by both professionals and amateurs for hundreds of years.
 
2013-11-09 03:09:01 PM  

sammyk: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

There are millions of places that will heat treat things for you and it's not expensive.

jjorsett: This is just a company showing off its capabilities by making something sure to get it publicity. Their equipment is way beyond what a criminal could afford or even know how to operate. If someone were determined to make this type of gun themselves, it would probably be cheaper and faster to obtain standard machine tools and get training on how to use them.

A bench grinder, mill and a lathe are all you need to make a basic revolver. Finding a working rifling machine for sale is the hard part. Good thing a little googling will give you all you need to know on how to build one with the tools above.

Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper. This is why I view anyone that has big dreams of 3D printing a gun in their garage as gun masturbating, bullet counting dipshiats. There are so many cheaper and easier ways to get a firearm, and it's not going to change in the current political environment. Bonus:It probably wont blow up in your hand when you fire the damn thing.


Not only that but you can actually buy a decent furnace/kiln that will reach 2000F without throwing too much money at it. I have one for my jewelry and lapidary crap. It would hold a good number of metal parts for treating. I figure if folks are willing to spend the money for the printer, they'll spend the money for the kiln.
 
2013-11-09 04:27:01 PM  

GungFu: Meh. Wake me up when we can do 4D printing.

Nobody likes 3D anyway.


The 3D shape is changing over time, so it is 4D.
 
2013-11-09 05:00:26 PM  
BOO!
It scares the little woosies, so ban it! Ban it now!
The people of today make me want to puke on them...
Hiram Percy Maxim, Ham radio operator and inventor of the Maxim machine gun and silencer never had any permits, but built firearms for the military during WWI...
But today, the individual is prohibited, but mega corporations are aproved...
Sad days America, you better change this, or you will end as slaves to the corporations...
 
2013-11-09 05:06:10 PM  

Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.


Like the way he claims that any technology he doesn't like won't get cheaper and better as time goes by, because 747s are not any faster than they were 40 years ago?
 
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