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(The Register)   The world's first gun 3D printed in metal. It's more accurate than factory made guns, especially in the hands of a convicted felon who hears voices   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Cool, El Reg, convicted felon, metals  
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13718 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Nov 2013 at 1:08 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



162 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-09 12:08:47 AM  
The springs aren't printed! HA! ARTICLE LOSES BY TKO.

:-|
 
2013-11-09 12:27:49 AM  
They say it's more accurate, but I'm thinking they compared the performance of this gun to a random sample of the mass produced version. This gun has probably gotten a lot more love and attention than the average assembly line gun.

That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.
 
2013-11-09 01:10:08 AM  
If QA didn't submit this, I'll be a sad panda.
 
2013-11-09 01:10:45 AM  
Not as random or as clumsy as a blaster.
 
2013-11-09 01:10:48 AM  

Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.


Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.
 
2013-11-09 01:14:47 AM  
In before... oh fark it, never mind. I'm going to bed.
 
2013-11-09 01:16:34 AM  
It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.
 
2013-11-09 01:20:19 AM  
I hope that some quizzical asshole prints one out and commits suicide

:) :) :)

Happy times!
 
2013-11-09 01:20:20 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.comi.chzbgr.com
 
2013-11-09 01:21:35 AM  
This is just a company showing off its capabilities by making something sure to get it publicity. Their equipment is way beyond what a criminal could afford or even know how to operate. If someone were determined to make this type of gun themselves, it would probably be cheaper and faster to obtain standard machine tools and get training on how to use them.
 
2013-11-09 01:21:49 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.


because we ALL have access to 3D metal printers in the first place
 
2013-11-09 01:23:49 AM  
 
Zel [TotalFark]
2013-11-09 01:28:06 AM  
Bravo on the baited headline. Let's ban downloadable models because crazies could get around sale-prohibitions. Hillary 2016!

Piratebay has a 3d models section; where, I am quite sure, all models shall be posted(-en).
 
2013-11-09 01:29:52 AM  
I'm sure the state legislatures that are anti-gun will ban 3d printers too.
 
2013-11-09 01:32:10 AM  

cretinbob: and it only costs $1 million


Oh, look... My uncle is 1st in line to buy more than he needs.
 
2013-11-09 01:32:26 AM  
Whatever. Print a house.
 
2013-11-09 01:35:01 AM  
Was sorta wondering how they were going to string fire it considering the grip safety, but I see they took care of that.
 
2013-11-09 01:35:56 AM  
3D printing is becoming very interesting in terms of capability and accessibility and potential problems (you wouldn't copy a what, again?), but a gun? Meh.
 
2013-11-09 01:37:06 AM  
I'm SHOCKED that none of the folks I've got marked as 3-D printer fanatics have shown up in this thread yet.  I've got one dude marked as "Pissed his mommy and daddy didn't buy him a 3-D printed pony for his 5th birthday" who always shows up in these threads who is apparently MIA.  Imagine that -- a farker who's too busy on a random Friday night to grace us with his presence.
 
2013-11-09 01:37:14 AM  
If you read some of the comments about the machine used to print the parts I believe the fun quote from someone at solidworks was that it cost more than their four years of tution to a private university. So not exactly something easily obtained and then the engineering that went into prototyping the parts was apparently a good number of highly skilled manhours. Definitely something that is a lot more about building the business for rapid prototyped gunparts and justifying the ffl they have than anything else.
 
2013-11-09 01:37:51 AM  
So much for that.  Disregard my last post.
 
2013-11-09 01:42:01 AM  
So instead of new inventions, this is all people care about with those printers.  They will be banned soon.
 
ecl
2013-11-09 01:44:48 AM  
So would a 3d printed sniper rifle be any better or are those things already as close to perfect as you can get?
 
2013-11-09 01:45:02 AM  
I'm more impressed when you can print an object that has a fraction of the parts of the original and the same functionality.
 
2013-11-09 01:45:42 AM  

MrHappyRotter: So much for that.  Disregard my last post.


Yeah, was wondering who you could have farkied.
 
2013-11-09 01:47:19 AM  
I think it is pretty neat. I know it was something they built to prove they could, and it is probably destined for a company display case. But I'd still really like to see it put through some arduous tests and side-by-side comparisons on the range.
 
2013-11-09 01:50:10 AM  
It's probably stronger than some of the MIM junk out there.  .45 is good choice for these tests, as it is low pressure round.
 
2013-11-09 01:52:33 AM  

wildcardjack: I'm more impressed when you can print an object that has a fraction of the parts of the original and the same functionality.


Since it is additive it should be a lot easier to lighten things up, for instance that 1911 frame could have really been trimmed down.
 
2013-11-09 01:52:42 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.


Flawless Victory
 
2013-11-09 01:53:01 AM  
BFD.     I mean I guess it sounds cool from an engineering perspective, but last time I checked, those Asian-made 1911 pistol copies are $400 or even less.
 
2013-11-09 01:53:43 AM  
The only parts there weren't printed were four small springs and the magazines.

I remember when magazines were printed, kindle was what you did with fire wood, and onions were sold in finer men's accessories departments in downtown stores. And guns and typewriters were made by the same company.
 
2013-11-09 01:54:22 AM  
I'm going to 3D print a bullet proof vest to protect me.
 
2013-11-09 01:54:38 AM  

tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory


Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.
 
2013-11-09 01:54:56 AM  

wildcardjack: I'm more impressed when you can print an object that has a fraction of the parts of the original and the same functionality.


Like this?
 http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/3dprinting.html#.Un3cEx a70 zU
 
2013-11-09 01:55:11 AM  

wildcardjack: I'm more impressed when you can print an object that has a fraction of the parts of the original and the same functionality.


It's a neat tech cause of that. Hurts my head when a new technology comes out and the 'that's stupid and pointless' people yell louder that the 'hmm I wonder how I can use this to better my life' crowd. Luddites, Luddites everywhere.
 
2013-11-09 01:58:38 AM  

wildcardjack: I'm more impressed when you can print an object that has a fraction of the parts of the original and the same functionality.


Are you talking about a handgun or in general? There are plenty of cases where a machine needs parts with widely differing elasticity, tensile strength, conductivity, or even sacrificial or replaceable parts.
 
2013-11-09 01:59:41 AM  

BitwiseShift: The only parts there weren't printed were four small springs and the magazines.

I remember when magazines were printed, kindle was what you did with fire wood, and onions were sold in finer men's accessories departments in downtown stores. And guns and typewriters were made by the same company.


You are older than gun magazines?

Impressive.
 
2013-11-09 02:02:27 AM  

Fubini: They say it's more accurate, but I'm thinking they compared the performance of this gun to a random sample of the mass produced version. This gun has probably gotten a lot more love and attention than the average assembly line gun.

That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.


Yeah, when it comes to 1911s you can buy something close to a Browning's original specs for $400 - $500, which had loose tolerances thus increased reliability in exchange for less accuracy.  Or you can spend a few grand on a very precise highly tuned model.  Considering the cost of their equipment and the time and care needed to manufacture this one, I wonder which it better compares to?
 
2013-11-09 02:02:43 AM  
It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?
 
2013-11-09 02:07:23 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.


bag o' coal, leaf blower, bucket o' water
 
2013-11-09 02:07:37 AM  
3D printers are an urban myth.

Ain't no sich thang.
 
2013-11-09 02:07:38 AM  
This gun is the proof of concept: Firearms can be produced on 3D printers that are reliable and have excellent tolerance.

The next trick will be to design a firearm that can only be produced on a 3D printer that is an improvement upon current firearms. So your 3D printed gun has to be able to outclass Colt, Glock, Smith&Wesson and a dozen others. Can it be done today, more cheaply and and and the same volume as dedicated gun manufacturers? No.

The real trick is that 3D printer can also put out car parts, machine tools, specialty measurement gear, hand tools and a dozen other metal items all to a very high level of accuracy.Once the production rate can be increased from a boutique item to mass production levels a lot of tool and die companies are going to have a lot of trouble keeping up.
 
2013-11-09 02:07:55 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


You haven't been reading long have you or do you have ADD?
 
2013-11-09 02:09:53 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.


Generally it's not, if it's manufactured for personal use and not for sale.
 
2013-11-09 02:10:24 AM  
I'm okay with this. This is the sort of printing system that is too cumbersome for the home, so I'm not concerned there. However, the components it creates are FAR more precise, and far more functional, while wasting FAR less. There was an article a while back that detailed the creating of a plane's door hinge by using a 3D printer. The hinge they created was just as strong, but far lighter in weight due to shed weight in portions that didn't need excess metal, and could be reinforced using methods that simply don't work by the casting methods used normally. I'm waiting for Boeing to 3D-Print an engine for a jetliner. I'm estimating it'll weigh maybe Half the size of present engines.
 
2013-11-09 02:13:45 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


They aren't selling it or transferring it to anyone, and in the video they mentioned they were at their location in Austin where they hold their FFL. Also in the video you'll see the gun has a serial number.
 
2013-11-09 02:15:20 AM  
As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23, I would bet I have better accuracy for $750 (gun and sight) than a 3-d printed 1911, for a third the price.

It is like buying a Macbook.
 
2013-11-09 02:19:47 AM  
Good.. goooood, I'll just keep buying lathes and mills while these dimwits are distracted with 3D printers.
 
2013-11-09 02:20:50 AM  

vharshyde: I'm okay with this. This is the sort of printing system that is too cumbersome for the home, so I'm not concerned there. However, the components it creates are FAR more precise, and far more functional, while wasting FAR less. There was an article a while back that detailed the creating of a plane's door hinge by using a 3D printer. The hinge they created was just as strong, but far lighter in weight due to shed weight in portions that didn't need excess metal, and could be reinforced using methods that simply don't work by the casting methods used normally. I'm waiting for Boeing to 3D-Print an engine for a jetliner. I'm estimating it'll weigh maybe Half the size of present engines.


I expect parts manufacturing to continue to move over to 3D incrementally. We'll start with a product having 1-2 parts being manufactured with 3D printing and from there that number will increase. For a mass market item like a car that is a huge number of parts being kicked out annually.

I expect something as complex as a jet turbine will not be 100% 3D printed for a while. We don't have the printing capacity to manufacture items that large in the required volume.

What will be nice and interesting is that replacement parts will become much more available. If the part is on file it can be ordered, a print house will manufacture it and ship it to you. And the cost of tooling should be negligible so the cost of having one unit produced should not break the bank.
 
2013-11-09 02:23:35 AM  
FTFA: This isn't the kind of kit you can have in your garage. The power requirements alone are well over what is available in residential neighborhoods and the printer itself is very expensive.

Bummer!
 
2013-11-09 02:26:56 AM  

The Angry Hand of God: As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23,


Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.
 
2013-11-09 02:27:48 AM  
Once again, people with expertise and access to specialized tools have always been able to make firearms. It's been this way for what? 500+ years now?

Here's something that will shock the ignorant masses.... in many neighborhoods there is a guy who has a lathe, a drill press, and a milling machine in his garage or basement. usually old used stuff discarded from a factories and machine shops. Decades old. Or maybe just cheapies from Harbor Freight. Because he knows how to use these tools he can make his own firearms. He might even have a brake press to form sheet metal parts.

But here's the rub.... making guns this way costs way more in time, effort, and total monetary cost than just buying one. People who make their own guns are not a problem. 99.999999% of the time or so. Why? They have skills and intelligence that allows them to make a living without being a criminal.
 
2013-11-09 02:31:44 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: The Angry Hand of God: As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23,

Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.


I am legally allowed to own an AK-47. The ATF? Wat?
 
2013-11-09 02:40:25 AM  

The Angry Hand of God: thisisyourbrainonFark: The Angry Hand of God: As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23,

Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.

I am legally allowed to own an AK-47. The ATF? Wat?


Wow, you really don't know that you done goofed, do you?
 
2013-11-09 02:43:29 AM  

leadmetal: Once again, people with expertise and access to specialized tools have always been able to make firearms. It's been this way for what? 500+ years now?

Here's something that will shock the ignorant masses.... in many neighborhoods there is a guy who has a lathe, a drill press, and a milling machine in his garage or basement. usually old used stuff discarded from a factories and machine shops. Decades old. Or maybe just cheapies from Harbor Freight. Because he knows how to use these tools he can make his own firearms. He might even have a brake press to form sheet metal parts.

But here's the rub.... making guns this way costs way more in time, effort, and total monetary cost than just buying one. People who make their own guns are not a problem. 99.999999% of the time or so. Why? They have skills and intelligence that allows them to make a living without being a criminal.


Big difference between a guy taking years of his life to learn metal working and a guy pushing 'print.'

/Yes I know the printers are expensive, heat treatment used blah blah blah.
 
2013-11-09 02:45:41 AM  

Elfich: I expect something as complex as a jet turbine will not be 100% 3D printed for a while. We don't have the printing capacity to manufacture items that large in the required volume.


NASA and Aerojet Rocketdyne of West Palm Beach, Fla., recently finished testing a rocket engine injector made through additive manufacturing, or 3-D printing.

'This is a 3D printed jet engine' Its a model, but the turbine turns freely.
 
2013-11-09 02:46:00 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.


If you can legally own a Glock 23, you sure as hell can own an AK-47.  In fact, if you pay for the tax stamp, there's no legal reason why you couldn't own a fully automatic version of the AK-47, assuming you have $16K to get a transferable one and you state doesn't have some bullshiat laws preventing you.

And what's the FTA?  Is that your way of coming out of the closet as a full retard?  You never go full retard, man.  Not in public.
 
2013-11-09 02:47:42 AM  

The Angry Hand of God: As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23, I would bet I have better accuracy for $750 (gun and sight) than a 3-d printed 1911, for a third the price.

It is like buying a Macbook.


Iron sights are the way to go. Man up.
 
2013-11-09 02:49:55 AM  
I think thisisyourbrain was making a joke.
 
2013-11-09 02:52:29 AM  
Get back to me when they can print an army of metallic bionic tortoises.
 
2013-11-09 02:56:59 AM  
I have yet to read the article but after reading the subject line I'd like to point out that not everybody who hears voices a convicted felon. In fact the voices can get so damn distracting that it's hard to get anything accomplished, even things that are perfectly legal. Like grocery shopping. Or washing dishes. And there are cameras everywhere. "Stand up straight, it's on your permanent record. And stop moving your lips. You don't want them saying 'Look, here's the guy who talks to himself as he bends over the broccoli!' do you?"
 
2013-11-09 03:07:22 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


Not in the least. It's inadvisable to sell a gun without one, but I inherited several from my grandfather that were without numbers. If they were to sell it, the ATF my give them a call, but I believe that have an FFL for manufacturing and it's not likely they're going to part with a prototype.
 
2013-11-09 03:11:47 AM  

Witty_Retort: leadmetal: Once again, people with expertise and access to specialized tools have always been able to make firearms. It's been this way for what? 500+ years now?

Here's something that will shock the ignorant masses.... in many neighborhoods there is a guy who has a lathe, a drill press, and a milling machine in his garage or basement. usually old used stuff discarded from a factories and machine shops. Decades old. Or maybe just cheapies from Harbor Freight. Because he knows how to use these tools he can make his own firearms. He might even have a brake press to form sheet metal parts.

But here's the rub.... making guns this way costs way more in time, effort, and total monetary cost than just buying one. People who make their own guns are not a problem. 99.999999% of the time or so. Why? They have skills and intelligence that allows them to make a living without being a criminal.

Big difference between a guy taking years of his life to learn metal working and a guy pushing 'print.'

/Yes I know the printers are expensive, heat treatment used blah blah blah.


Are you against CNC mills then? You can set one up yourself for about $1500. And it doesn't take years to learn how to machine parts. Anyone who can chuck a drill bit could make a semi-auto gun in a weekend.
 
2013-11-09 03:16:39 AM  

GodComplex: Anyone who can chuck a drill bit could make a semi-auto gun in a weekend.


Somehow, I doubt that Joe Schmuck is going to go down to home depot, buy himself a 1500 dollar "CNC MILL", and start cranking out quality firearms in a weekend.

The more likely scenario is that Joe Schmuck goes down, spends 30 dollars, and uses his home drill to turn a piece of metal pipe and pipe-cap, spring, and a nail into a zip gun.
 
2013-11-09 03:16:47 AM  
SpaceX is already printing rocket engines.
 
2013-11-09 04:03:25 AM  
Pretty soon, 3D printers will be printing 3d printers. Humans will become just sources of red pigment.
 
2013-11-09 04:19:46 AM  

Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.


That was a great talk. Thank you.
 
2013-11-09 04:36:18 AM  
Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.
 
2013-11-09 04:46:25 AM  

Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.


It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',
 
2013-11-09 04:54:38 AM  

Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.


*rushes to garage to get started on skateboard Ferrari*
 
2013-11-09 05:11:49 AM  
"It's very accurate indeed," he said. "We gave it to our resident gun expert and after firing a few rounds with it, and a commercially available version, he found the printed firearm was more accurate on the range."

Sounds like some intense testing. I'm convinced.
 
2013-11-09 05:21:29 AM  
People, especially the kinds of have been victims of modern propaganda, seem to think that guns can only be made in the fires of mount doom by a bearded warlock.
Truth is they can be made by anyone with a hacksaw and some pipe.

Its a very old technology that's not difficult to understand.
But, while anyone can make a gun, not anyone can make a good gun.
To make one that fires true and reliably requires properly fit parts built to exacting tolerances and assembled with a masters touch. Its like saying anyone can build a car but only Ferrari can make a rolling work of art that goes two hundred miles an hour.

As a technical demonstration, guns make very good subjects. It shows that 3D printing is coming of age and can do ANY job the customer has in mind.
The fact that someone's going to wet their pants about a new 1911, well I guess that's just free advertising.

/I mean, the things a century old and available for around $500 at any average gun store.
/its also a very common project gun, you can order blanks through the mail.
/are people really this insecure about weapons?
 
2013-11-09 05:59:19 AM  

jjorsett: This is just a company showing off its capabilities by making something sure to get it publicity. Their equipment is way beyond what a criminal could afford or even know how to operate. If someone were determined to make this type of gun themselves, it would probably be cheaper and faster to obtain standard machine tools and get training on how to use them.


Shut up!

My makerbot can make that gun too!

I just have to print some replacement parts for it first.

Because the parts it came with don't work.
 
2013-11-09 06:16:39 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.


There are millions of places that will heat treat things for you and it's not expensive.

jjorsett: This is just a company showing off its capabilities by making something sure to get it publicity. Their equipment is way beyond what a criminal could afford or even know how to operate. If someone were determined to make this type of gun themselves, it would probably be cheaper and faster to obtain standard machine tools and get training on how to use them.


A bench grinder, mill and a lathe are all you need to make a basic revolver. Finding a working rifling machine for sale is the hard part. Good thing a little googling will give you all you need to know on how to build one with the tools above.

Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper. This is why I view anyone that has big dreams of 3D printing a gun in their garage as gun masturbating, bullet counting dipshiats. There are so many cheaper and easier ways to get a firearm, and it's not going to change in the current political environment. Bonus:It probably wont blow up in your hand when you fire the damn thing.
 
2013-11-09 06:37:16 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.


Missed the point again QA? The point is that we (humans) took a labour intensive manual process and automated it. This will lead to us being able to print guns to fight the aliens on Barsoom.

You just don`t get it. I`m not sure you ever will.

*sigh*
 
2013-11-09 06:41:11 AM  
way south:
/I mean, the things a century old and available for around $500 at any average gun store.
/its also a very common project gun, you can order blanks through the mail.
/are people really this insecure about weapons?


The British are.

Remember, this is an article from a UK news source.  The United Kingdom has famously strict gun laws, especially regarding handguns, and the idea that somebody could push a button on a machine and 3-D print a handgun that's actually better than a factory made one is a nightmare for gun grabbers.

Given the spin on it, I'm somewhat surprised this wasn't a Daily Fail article.
 
2013-11-09 06:56:43 AM  

Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.


Um, could somebody print me a kitten?
 
2013-11-09 07:10:03 AM  

BitwiseShift:

The only parts there weren't printed were four small springs and the magazines.

I remember when magazines were printed, kindle was what you did with fire wood, and onions were sold in finer men's accessories departments in downtown stores.


Huh? Onions are FOOD, man. The kind you eat when you're not sure you drank too much to get it up but you don't want to be bothered anyway.


And guns and typewriters were made by the same company.

IBM made guns?


Smackledorfer: BitwiseShift:

The only parts there weren't printed were four small springs and the magazines.

I remember when magazines were printed...

You are older than gun magazines?


It turns out I'm not older than this one. Or this one either.

I gotta get some sleep. The voices say I'm tired.
 
2013-11-09 07:36:30 AM  

cretinbob: and it only costs $1 million


Mostly a better article, but then they go and do this: "You can't print gunpowder (yet)"

No grasp of chemistry at all.  None.
 
2013-11-09 07:40:17 AM  
sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.
 
2013-11-09 07:41:15 AM  

ecl: So would a 3d printed sniper rifle be any better or are those things already as close to perfect as you can get?


No. While it could be argued that one could make the receiver from 3d printing (at an obscene cost compared to conventional means) the barrel is the problem. Yes, you could theoretically print one. But the properties would be terrible. Not to mention dangerous. Most guns for field use plate the working parts with nickel. This prevents corrosion from gunpowder or water. Not something that could be done easily or cheaply by 3d printing.

The plating is only a few atoms thick. Thicker would alter the performance of the gun.

And the we get to the optics. Unless you are content with plastic lenses and prisms, glass would be prohibitively expensive to 3d print.

And none of the 3d printing process cuts down on the testing, verification, and calibration that goes into a sniper rifle. And those are the *really* expensive bits.
 
2013-11-09 07:42:27 AM  

Allen262: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 616x364][i.chzbgr.com image 500x375]


Obligatory.

Witty_Retort: Elfich: I expect something as complex as a jet turbine will not be 100% 3D printed for a while. We don't have the printing capacity to manufacture items that large in the required volume.

NASA and Aerojet Rocketdyne of West Palm Beach, Fla., recently finished testing a rocket engine injector made through additive manufacturing, or 3-D printing.

'This is a 3D printed jet engine' Its a model, but the turbine turns freely.


I'm not a materials scientist. But, as I understand it, turbine blades are single crystal solids.

3d printing is surely going to have to get closer to the molecular level before we can produce those, surely?

/I also plan on not calling you Shirley.
 
2013-11-09 07:46:24 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.

Um, could somebody print me a kitten?


You're gonna need a meat printer
 
2013-11-09 07:46:31 AM  
Who the fark says 3d printing implies anything about home use?
 
2013-11-09 08:07:05 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Not something that could be done easily or cheaply by 3d printing.


NASA is planning to 3D print the combustion chambers and injectors of the updated F-1 which require materials and exposure to corrosion well beyond anything in a puny little gun, so I think you left off a very important word from that sentence: yet. This is getting damn close to being an engineering problem, not a science one and those usually get solved. And after that, they usually start to get cheaper. At this point printing those parts is already going to be cheaper and more reliable than the old fashioned hand welding methods.
 
2013-11-09 08:09:55 AM  

Chunky Pumpkinhead: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

bag o' coal, leaf blower, bucket o' water


Wonder Twin Powers, ACTIVATE!
 
2013-11-09 08:26:13 AM  

cretinbob: and it only costs $1 million


Better regulate it quick then.
 
2013-11-09 08:34:59 AM  
*Yawn*
Wake me up when I can finally 3d print a full-sized blue whale like I've always wanted. (gets back to dreaming of conquering the world while riding that thing)
 
2013-11-09 08:39:45 AM  
People have been making guns out of sintered powdered metal for decades. They are cheap, crappy firearms that fail much more quickly than guns made from stamped or forged steel.

This is what I'm talking about.

sensiblesurvival.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-11-09 08:41:17 AM  
 Wow, I would like to retract my previous snark regarding "3d printed zip guns/ pipe bombs".
Also, I want a 3d metal printer.
 
2013-11-09 08:42:02 AM  
I thought they said the point of it was to show that a 3D metal printed item could withstand the same stresses that traditional forged metal could.
 
2013-11-09 08:51:16 AM  

KellyX: I thought they said the point of it was to show that a 3D metal printed item could withstand the same stresses that traditional forged metal could.


Initial stress test, yeah. I want to see them run 10,000 rounds through it. It'll go boom; forging aligns the metallic structure of steel into something much stronger than a weld.
 
2013-11-09 08:56:55 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


All firearms are produced without serial numbers; they get added later.

Manufactured to closer tolerances means less reliability, obviously.  One of the nice things about 1911s is that you can tune the gun to your specific needs.  A race gun that only has to run 100 rounds between cleaning and parts replacement will be more accurate than an rattle-trap that just needs to go bang every time.
 
2013-11-09 09:03:22 AM  

cirby: sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.


Why do people cling to the belief that private gun sellers at gun shows run background checks?  Cash is King, and none of them give a crap what on plan on doing with that gun later.

If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.
 
2013-11-09 09:08:50 AM  
Meh. Wake me up when we can do 4D printing.

Nobody likes 3D anyway.
 
2013-11-09 09:11:16 AM  

mbillips: KellyX: I thought they said the point of it was to show that a 3D metal printed item could withstand the same stresses that traditional forged metal could.

Initial stress test, yeah. I want to see them run 10,000 rounds through it. It'll go boom; forging aligns the metallic structure of steel into something much stronger than a weld.


This.  And simply forging the barrel isn't enough.  Heat treatment or cold hammering is necessary.  I doubt giving the printed barrel any of that strengthening is even possible.  They do the strengthening before final milling, because the treatment tends to change the caliber of the barrel.  They may want to buy the barrel, or not print one.
 
2013-11-09 09:13:51 AM  

Turbo Cojones: cirby: sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.

Why do people cling to the belief that private gun sellers at gun shows run background checks?  Cash is King, and none of them give a crap what on plan on doing with that gun later.

If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.


In my state you are required to have a purchase permit for a handgun purchase from a private seller.  That permit includes a background check.  The only exceptions are purchasing from a Class 1 FFL dealer, who will run a background check at time of purchase or holding a valid CPL.  CPL carriers are checked out more than police applicants.

So your exception is not universal.  You will not walk out of a gun show with a firearms here without having been checked out.
 
2013-11-09 09:20:36 AM  
And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
 
2013-11-09 09:24:01 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Um, could somebody print me a kitten?


No, but how about something more useful, like replacement human organs from your own cells?

https://www.google.com/#q=3d+print+human+organs
 
2013-11-09 09:27:51 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.

Um, could somebody print me a kitten?


www.housemd-guide.com

Both equally disturbed at the idea of being printed.
 
2013-11-09 09:29:19 AM  

AngryDragon: Turbo Cojones: cirby: sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.

Why do people cling to the belief that private gun sellers at gun shows run background checks?  Cash is King, and none of them give a crap what on plan on doing with that gun later.

If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.

In my state you are required to have a purchase permit for a handgun purchase from a private seller.  That permit includes a background check.  The only exceptions are purchasing from a Class 1 FFL dealer, who will run a background check at time of purchase or holding a valid CPL.  CPL carriers are checked out more than police applicants.

So your exception is not universal.  You will not walk out of a gun show with a firearms here without having been checked out.


Since you all got my ass paged here I will comment.

That seems like the correct way to do it.  Putting enforcement of gun laws on the seller just adds yet another thing with heavy punishments gun owners have to deal with if they make a small mistake on a transaction they might only do once every ten years.

No one cars the fact that you can buy a car with a suspended license the 'car dealer' loophole.
 
2013-11-09 09:47:06 AM  
I just wanted to point out that the people biatching about heat quenching have literally no idea how laser sintering works.
 
2013-11-09 09:48:22 AM  
Turbo Cojones:
If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.


So, for your example of the "gun show loophole", you cite... buying guns from private sellers NOT at gun shows? Not very convincing.

While it's possible to find individuals selling guns at some gun shows, what you usually find are a bunch of people selling as dealers - and doing background checks. The handful of private sellers are usually trying to get rid of collector's weapons at fairly high prices - and most of them do their official sales through local gun shops. Which means - again - background checks.

While it's possible to sometime buy weapons at gun shows without going through background checks, it's much, much easier to get them through actual illicit means. Like black-market dealers. Or from the ATF (if you're a Mexican drug lord).
 
2013-11-09 09:49:33 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.


I live with my mom I couldn't even bother finishing reading it.
 
2013-11-09 09:52:58 AM  

Begoggle: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

I live with my mom I couldn't even bother finishing reading it.


Here's the TL;DR: Derp.
 
2013-11-09 09:54:54 AM  
World's first 3D-printed metal gun 'more accurate' than factory-built cousin
Don't worry, you can't make one of these at home


World's first 3D-printed cheesecake 'more delicious' than restaurant-made cousin
Don't worry, you can't bake one of these at home

World's first 3D-printed inflatable girlfriend 'more beautiful' than  Akihabara-built cousin
Don't worry, you can't inflate one of these at home

Nope, headline still doesn't make sense.
 
2013-11-09 09:57:15 AM  
Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?
 
2013-11-09 10:00:12 AM  

DesertEagle: Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?


Exactly.  It's not the law-abiding that are illegally or unethically transferring firearms.  I know I would want a firearm registered to me, sold for a couple hundred quick bucks and no paperwork, to be used in a felony.  I'm certain the UFIA treatment that would follow would be totally worth it.
 
2013-11-09 10:04:59 AM  

gameshowhost: The springs aren't printed! HA! ARTICLE LOSES BY TKO.


If you could design it so that the parts that can't be printed are extremely common and easy to get via hardware stores, that would be cool enough.
 
2013-11-09 10:08:03 AM  

BitwiseShift: onions were sold in finer men's accessories departments in downtown stores.


You must make one hell of a seasoning.
 
2013-11-09 10:09:56 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?


it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long
 
2013-11-09 10:13:08 AM  

otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long


What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.
 
2013-11-09 10:17:17 AM  

redly1: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

because we ALL have access to 3D metal printers in the first place


When I was a kid (and I'm not all that old really) I remember that a lot of people still didn't have color TV.

Now, I can watch entire movies wirelessly on my phone.

Just saying.

CheatCommando: Evil Twin Skippy: Not something that could be done easily or cheaply by 3d printing.

NASA is planning to 3D print the combustion chambers and injectors of the updated F-1 which require materials and exposure to corrosion well beyond anything in a puny little gun, so I think you left off a very important word from that sentence: yet. This is getting damn close to being an engineering problem, not a science one and those usually get solved. And after that, they usually start to get cheaper. At this point printing those parts is already going to be cheaper and more reliable than the old fashioned hand welding methods.


I think this is pretty much already an engineering problem. I mean, really, this technology has been around for years - we are just starting to get more exposure to it because of the boom in home 3d printing hobbyists.

Honestly, it's a very attractive technology for manufacturers. It allows you to quickly "retool" a production line without having to invest capital (a lot of people who bemoan the per unit cost of manufacturing don't really understand the differences in capex and opex from a business point of view).
 
2013-11-09 10:24:43 AM  

NickelP: otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long

What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.


If the law doesn't address it yet, it will soon.
 
2013-11-09 10:25:38 AM  

TwistedFark: redly1: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

because we ALL have access to 3D metal printers in the first place

When I was a kid (and I'm not all that old really) I remember that a lot of people still didn't have color TV.

Now, I can watch entire movies wirelessly on my phone.

Just saying.


The next step is a handheld high-velocity bullet printer. Imagine printing a .45 caliber bullet at 1000 feet per second.
 
2013-11-09 10:28:41 AM  
The important thing is that technobevets is making friends and getting much needed social interaction.
 
2013-11-09 10:30:18 AM  
The One True TheDavid:

IBM made guns?


Yup, they made the M1 Carbines during WW2.  As did Underwood.  Like Pinball? Rockola made 'em too.  And quite a few companies made 1911s as well - like Singer (the sewing machine folks).
 
2013-11-09 10:42:54 AM  

plausdeny: thisisyourbrainonFark: Oops, too bad you're not allowed to own an AK-47, so have fun when the FTA comes knocking on your door.

If you can legally own a Glock 23, you sure as hell can own an AK-47.  In fact, if you pay for the tax stamp, there's no legal reason why you couldn't own a fully automatic version of the AK-47, assuming you have $16K to get a transferable one and you state doesn't have some bullshiat laws preventing you.

And what's the FTA?  Is that your way of coming out of the closet as a full retard?  You never go full retard, man.  Not in public.


I'm not the one who will be back-traced, you are.
 
2013-11-09 10:50:20 AM  

GungFu: Meh. Wake me up when we can do 4D printing.


You overslept and missed a TED talk from earlier this year.
 
2013-11-09 11:07:59 AM  

rev. dave: So instead of new inventions, this is all people care about with those printers.  They will be banned soon.



They can have my 3-D printer when they pry it from my cold dead Wi-Fi connection!
 
2013-11-09 11:19:25 AM  
This is not new. Remember the Welrod? It was basically a zip gun with a pistol grip.

world.guns.ru
 
2013-11-09 11:44:00 AM  

Fubini: They say it's more accurate, but I'm thinking they compared the performance of this gun to a random sample of the mass produced version. This gun has probably gotten a lot more love and attention than the average assembly line gun.

That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.


it's accuracy compared to the abs plastic piece of shiat is probably orders of magnitude better

and it might not explode in your hand
 
2013-11-09 11:47:06 AM  

veistran: If you read some of the comments about the machine used to print the parts I believe the fun quote from someone at solidworks was that it cost more than their four years of tution to a private university. So not exactly something easily obtained and then the engineering that went into prototyping the parts was apparently a good number of highly skilled manhours. Definitely something that is a lot more about building the business for rapid prototyped gunparts and justifying the ffl they have than anything else.


so one hell of an advertising campaign for the company

Hell Id like just an objet just so I can show clients what their finished parts should look like
 
2013-11-09 11:57:28 AM  
What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.
 
2013-11-09 12:00:45 PM  

loonatic112358: veistran: If you read some of the comments about the machine used to print the parts I believe the fun quote from someone at solidworks was that it cost more than their four years of tution to a private university. So not exactly something easily obtained and then the engineering that went into prototyping the parts was apparently a good number of highly skilled manhours. Definitely something that is a lot more about building the business for rapid prototyped gunparts and justifying the ffl they have than anything else.

so one hell of an advertising campaign for the company

Hell Id like just an objet just so I can show clients what their finished parts should look like


for one.  How do those figured work out if you open it to the public and start selling them for a few grand piece?  With all the idiot teabaggers and gun nuts there has to be a market for that.
 
2013-11-09 12:01:01 PM  

i.r.id10t: The One True TheDavid:

IBM made guns?


Yup, they made the M1 Carbines during WW2.  As did Underwood.  Like Pinball? Rockola made 'em too.  And quite a few companies made 1911s as well - like Singer (the sewing machine folks).


Remington has made typewriters, guns, and electric shavers.
 
2013-11-09 12:03:14 PM  

bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.


This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.
 
2013-11-09 12:05:43 PM  

robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',


Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.
 
2013-11-09 12:08:00 PM  

NickelP: otaku69: Bigdogdaddy: It's probably against the law to manufacture any type of pistol without a serial number.  I wonder if they broke the law just by making that if it doesn't have one?

it's only illegal if you plan on selling them you can make your own guns all day long

What would be interesting is if a gun shop bought a 3d metal printer and started advertising - rent x time of 3d printing time and make your own gun!  Untraceable and no serial numbers!  Is that legal?  I don't know if the law addresses that situation.


Yeah that is pretty much already happening, except with 80% lowers and CNC mills. It's perfectly legal as far as the ATF is concerned. It might vary from state to state, but that build party thread is taking place in Cali, which isn't exactly known for its gun friendliness.

http://monderno.com/monderno/legally-build-an-unregistered-ar-15/
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=739418
 
2013-11-09 12:11:16 PM  

Publikwerks: The One True TheDavid: Notabunny: Whatever. Print a house.

Um, could somebody print me a kitten?

You're gonna need a meat printer


NOOOOO!!! Kitties ain't meat, they's cuddles!!

People are meat.
 
2013-11-09 12:11:36 PM  

Z-clipped: robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',

Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.


Usually its the opposite from what I've noticed. There is a knee-jerk reaction by pro gun control to restrict this. I remember that much from when the Liberator was made earlier this year.
 
2013-11-09 12:13:03 PM  
Did anyone else notice the multi-shot action is extremely rough?  I can't speak to the accuracy, but I can GUARANTEE you that gun isn't going to be capable of firing a full magazine until a gun smith gets his hands on it.

All in all, it's an impressive advertisement for the company that made it, and hardly more than that.  The gun itself is not impressive in action.
 
2013-11-09 12:16:46 PM  

Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.


No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.
 
2013-11-09 12:24:56 PM  

redmid17: Z-clipped: robohobo: Memoryalpha: Oh my look at what they've done... The maker community must be just drooling over this, NOT.   Baring having upwards of $750k to spend on a laser sintering system there won't be any sudden rash of 3d handgun fire going on.  One of these things has about as much to do with the average garage based 3d printer as a Ferrari has to do with a skateboard made by nailing the wheels from an old roller skate onto a 2x4.  The video and attendant internet buzz over this is what's commonly known as a publicity stunt by Solid Concepts, nothing more.

It's not about the maker community, it's about the limp wristed, crybaby pussies who are terrified of anything that goes 'bang',

Seems to me, it's about the idiot gun-nuts trying to claim that all firearm regulations are effectively moot because home 3D printing will soon flood the marketplace with high-quality unregulated handguns.

Usually its the opposite from what I've noticed. There is a knee-jerk reaction by pro gun control to restrict this. I remember that much from when the Liberator was made earlier this year.


If you go back and look at the earliest 3D printing articles, you'll find a lot of what I'm talking about, even in the headlines.

The push to regulate models is relatively recent. It's also idiotic and pointless, since it would be impossible to implement, and solves a non-existent problem anyway.
 
2013-11-09 12:26:37 PM  

Stone Meadow: The One True TheDavid: Um, could somebody print me a kitten?

No, but how about something more useful, like replacement human organs from your own cells?

https://www.google.com/#q=3d+print+human+organs


But my cells are probably broken from years of various abuses. Isn't the point supposed to improvement?

Maybe Wil Wheaton could spare a few. He seems like such a sensible young man.
 
2013-11-09 12:40:25 PM  

Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.


Things you would,t understand. Things you could,t understand. Things you should,t understand. He ,s a loner, zclipped. A rebel.
 
2013-11-09 12:56:01 PM  

DesertEagle: Just to throw my $0.02 in the fountain here...

Don't you have to report the sale/transfer of your firearm to the feds or whichever state department?

The serial numbers get registered when you buy a gun, don't they? Whose house will they come knocking to when the gun left behind in a crime scene is registered to your name and address?

Why the hell -wouldn't- you want to report the sale?


No, you don't. The ATF does background checks, but they are REQUIRED BY LAW to throw out that information within a few days, so as not to create a national gun registration system (which is the only thing between America and Hitler's Germany, apparently). Dealers have to keep a log of sales, but private individuals are under no federal rules, other than you can't knowingly sell to a person who doesn't live in your state. I bought a couple guns once from a guy who advertised them in the newspaper classifieds, and neither of us even knows the other's name.

Your state laws may vary, but the easiest way in the world to illegally buy a gun is to get one from a classified ad in a state with lax or nonexistent gun laws, such as Georgia.
 
2013-11-09 01:03:00 PM  

NickelP: bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.

This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.


That would be reasonably neato, but very few car parts are made just from metal; they come pre-assembled with rubber, plastic and electrical parts. The supply of simple metal parts generally comes from wrecked vehicles. Additive manufacturing will eventually be a much bigger deal, but the current "resolution" of "printed" parts means you still have to finish, clean, polish and heat treat them. Building a working differential is a stunt, not something anywhere close to being practical.
 
2013-11-09 01:05:29 PM  

Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.


I'm not really worried, ever. The common assertion is that anybody can get their hands on a firearm anytime they want to. How does this change that equation? With luck, people will latch on to this and 3-D print all kinds of defective firearms that will either blow up in their faces or fire once and break like some El-Cheapo Jennings/Raven/Lorcin/Jimenez piece.

Crime of all sorts has been diminishing for 20+ years. It's time to stop wringing our hands about the huge amount of crime in the US. It's never been lower. Quit being afraid of the bogeyman.
 
2013-11-09 01:20:30 PM  
What is 3D printed metal? A CNC machine?  L...O...L
 
2013-11-09 01:30:29 PM  
The (alleged) Federal rules about gun shows are here: http://usgovinfo.about.com/blgunshow.htm

Does "about.com" qualify as a valid reliable source?

Snippets pertinent to this discussion:


NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE:
MAY
acquire long guns and handguns from FFLs licensed in this state.
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state.
CANNOT acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed resident of any other state.


So would a paragraph like "I ________ hereby assert that I am a resident of the state of Kentucky and that I am not (list of disqualifications) thus forbidden to buy or own a firearm in Kentucky" cover a private seller's ass just in case? And would a Bill of Sale, perhaps printed out using an online sample, be legally regarded as valid proof of transfer of ownership?

Clearly private persons can't carry out background checks but it would be nice to show that the guy said he was legal anyway. Copying down info from the buyer's drivers license is probably a good idea, or would you have to scan it?

I do know that Kentucky doesn't require people who aren't disqualified from owning guns to register them, you just need a permit to carry them concealed. It's legal to carry a gun openly, say to hang a big .45 on your belt, but almost nobody does it; I picture dozens of cell phone users interrupting their texting while driving to flood 911 with "EEEK! There's A GUY WITH A GUN walking down Broadway!"

Which could get a person legally shot by a cop or six if s/he interprets any move the arms-bearer makes as "threatening." Or if the person doesn't hear the specific order because of being hard of hearing and/or a loud truck going by. The safest thing to do when you see a cop coming toward you with "that look" is to show willingness to comply with lawful authority by immediately going spread-eagle on the ground anyway. The old attitude of "I'm doing nothing wrong and the LEO is just another citizen doing a job" might well be taken as a challenge, while being flat on your face is probably just as good as "Leaning against the wall!" or whatever the order that you might not hear or understand might be.

However it could be overkill to supplement total prostration by squealing "Please don't shoot me! I can't hear you! My hearing aid's broken! Please don't shoot me!" At least in the daytime.

But it's hard to know for sure what can get you legally summarily executed because so few cases are resolved against the LEO. It might well work in your favor to be a black person running away from the cop in broad daylight with hundreds of witnesses, but even then it'd take major public pressure to keep the cop's "I felt threatened!" from flying by default.

And it's funny to hear people complain about Lexington KY's "high crime rate" because local cops have seem to have so little to do it's rare to see fewer than three cop cars showing up for every call, and lights & sirens seem a standard feature. Which of course raises the adrenaline rate in itself, regardless of what the call is about.

So I can't picture any ordinary citizen getting away with exercising the right to carry openly without first flagging down a cop to present one's photo ID and volunteer for a wants/warrants check just in case. "Just so somebody on duty will know something about those MAN WITH GUN!!! calls from people who are not aware of our rights under the constitutions and laws of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the USA."

IANALOLEO, SYMMV. IYKWIM. HAND!
 
2013-11-09 01:56:26 PM  

Fano: Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.

Things you would,t understand. Things you could,t understand. Things you should,t understand. He ,s a loner, zclipped. A rebel.


Uhh... ok? I didn't say I LIKED the guy, or that he isn't a troll and an attention whore. I just said he's correct. If there's one lesson to be learned from Fark, it's that being an asshole and being correct aren't mutually exclusive.
 
2013-11-09 02:15:47 PM  
The first horseless carriage wasn't a corvette.

Give these printers about fifty years to evolve.

Then see what they can do.
 
2013-11-09 02:42:09 PM  

mbillips: NickelP: bmwericus: What this is really proving is that overall complexity of shapes and objects that they can fabricate.  Where this is really going to be cool is in the future with obsolete parts and products - imagine being able to order up a set of piston rings for a really obsolete motor?  Custom printed for about the same price or cheaper than NOS because no one has to warehouse the parts and ship 'em - you will order them, the machine will MAKE them.  At some point that will be possible for all sorts of items.

Might cause a new resurgence in fixing old stuff instead of throwing it away - replacement parts cost far more to ship than to make.

As to printing a gun:  BFD as has been pointed out, so what?  I can get one today for $500 and 30 minutes time.  Much cheaper than printing one.

3D printing is much bigger than just weapons manufacture.

This will be really cool.  I'm not sure of the timeline, but for example when you need a new car part I think we will see you visiting a store the size of a kiosk and waiting 30 minutes while what you need gets printed instead of visiting your local 20k SF auto parts warehouse and then being told they can get it shipped in next week.

That would be reasonably neato, but very few car parts are made just from metal; they come pre-assembled with rubber, plastic and electrical parts. The supply of simple metal parts generally comes from wrecked vehicles. Additive manufacturing will eventually be a much bigger deal, but the current "resolution" of "printed" parts means you still have to finish, clean, polish and heat treat them. Building a working differential is a stunt, not something anywhere close to being practical.


No reason a really sophisticated printer could not fabricate a metal core gasket - build it from inside out - all it takes is the correct feedstocks and application mechanism.

Heat treating and such is another issue, but still - it could mean the end of warehousing gazillions of replacement parts for many industries, replaced by Universal Pantographs.

No, making anything will take a long time but there's a lot of uses for the ability to cheaply and quickly make 1 or 5 of something.

Such applications may not be needed or cost effective in Middle America, but how about in the Antartic, or remote islands or other military uses, already talking about uses in space - how about printing out a space station.

How about printing out a space elevator, using carbon fiber feedstocks or nanotubes, whatever the current material de jour is for that proposal?
 
2013-11-09 02:59:28 PM  
Remember that episode of The Next Generation, where some special engineer does something to the engines with the Traveller, and he gets mad at Picard saying, "Don't talk about me as if I'm not right here!"

I always think QA has that going through his head.
 
2013-11-09 03:08:42 PM  
FTA:

"The company was able to build the gun legally because it has a federal license for the manufacturing of firearms."

While this may be true, it is not technically correct; the company would be legally able to SELL the 3D printed firearm, as they have a manufacturers license from the ATF.

Any US citizen, who may legal possess said firearm, would be allowed to manufacture a firearm, as long as that firearm were a legally ownable firearm. Fabricating the lower receiver of an AR-15 (the part which constitutes a "firearm") would be perfectly legal, whereas the receiver of an M16 (with a select fire trigger/sear group) would not be legal.

Oddly enough, the fabrication of either of those constitutes the same physical characteristics, as it's the guts of the receiver that makes the distinction between legal and illegal; to whit, the receiver of the AR-15 is identical to the M-16. A better example would be the creation of the legal AR-15 receiver versus the creation of say, the receiver of... Hmm, offhand, I can't think of a platform that is fully automatic, without the possibility of an alternative select fire configuration.

Honestly, anyone with the ability to manufacture the lower would have the ability to fabricate and install the full auto trigger group; the only thing that would keep them from doing so is the fact that it would be illegal to do so.

And even that "illegal" aspect only extends as far as the acquisition of a class 3 tax transfer stamp from the ATF (as provided for in the National Firearms Act of 1934), and pursuant to local registration and approval. Though that allows for the purchase and legal ownership of 'existing' existing firearms (and suppressors), it doesn't apply to someone who wants to make their own machinegun.

Finally, it's worth noting that the law is applicable to only the last 20% of the manufacturing process. This means that one can legally purchase a lower receiver which has had 80% of the milling completed, and finish off the remaining 20% of the process to create their own lower. Before you mill out that last 4 or 5 ounces of aluminum, you're essentially the owner of a billet of aluminum with the legal status of a paperweight.

On another note, the question of heat treating the components of a firearm; there are various components of a firearm which require differing levels of hardening, treating, annealing, and/or coating/anodizing. Any and all of these processes may be successfully accomplished by an individual with a modicum of research, education, training and safety (and, of course, cash) in their own workspace. None of these processes are magic, and quite honestly, have been practiced by both professionals and amateurs for hundreds of years.
 
2013-11-09 03:09:01 PM  

sammyk: Bigdogdaddy: It has to be heat treated, which is something most people don't have access to,  Probably around 1500 degrees F and  quenched by someone that knew metallurgy.  Not really worried about this until they can get past that part.

There are millions of places that will heat treat things for you and it's not expensive.

jjorsett: This is just a company showing off its capabilities by making something sure to get it publicity. Their equipment is way beyond what a criminal could afford or even know how to operate. If someone were determined to make this type of gun themselves, it would probably be cheaper and faster to obtain standard machine tools and get training on how to use them.

A bench grinder, mill and a lathe are all you need to make a basic revolver. Finding a working rifling machine for sale is the hard part. Good thing a little googling will give you all you need to know on how to build one with the tools above.

Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper. This is why I view anyone that has big dreams of 3D printing a gun in their garage as gun masturbating, bullet counting dipshiats. There are so many cheaper and easier ways to get a firearm, and it's not going to change in the current political environment. Bonus:It probably wont blow up in your hand when you fire the damn thing.


Not only that but you can actually buy a decent furnace/kiln that will reach 2000F without throwing too much money at it. I have one for my jewelry and lapidary crap. It would hold a good number of metal parts for treating. I figure if folks are willing to spend the money for the printer, they'll spend the money for the kiln.
 
2013-11-09 04:27:01 PM  

GungFu: Meh. Wake me up when we can do 4D printing.

Nobody likes 3D anyway.


The 3D shape is changing over time, so it is 4D.
 
2013-11-09 05:00:26 PM  
BOO!
It scares the little woosies, so ban it! Ban it now!
The people of today make me want to puke on them...
Hiram Percy Maxim, Ham radio operator and inventor of the Maxim machine gun and silencer never had any permits, but built firearms for the military during WWI...
But today, the individual is prohibited, but mega corporations are aproved...
Sad days America, you better change this, or you will end as slaves to the corporations...
 
2013-11-09 05:06:10 PM  

Z-clipped: Farker Soze: tinyarena: Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.

Flawless Victory

Huh? QAs posts are nothing but fail and AIDS.

No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.


Like the way he claims that any technology he doesn't like won't get cheaper and better as time goes by, because 747s are not any faster than they were 40 years ago?
 
2013-11-09 06:42:29 PM  
I, for one, am shocked that high precision machining results in machines done to a high degree of precision.
 
2013-11-09 08:55:13 PM  
So can this printer take "cartridges" for different metals?

I'm thinking stainless steel, aluminum, copper, plutonium-239, beryllium, should about cover it.
 
2013-11-09 11:30:13 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: As someone who just installed a Crimson Trace laser sight on my Glock 23, I would bet I have better accuracy for $750 (gun and sight) than a 3-d printed 1911, for a third the price.

It is like buying a Macbook.


They shot a damn tight group in the video, better than I usually manage. I carried a Glock 23 for a few years and always shot expert with it, but that shooter with the printed 1911 had a better group than I usually managed.
 
2013-11-10 03:44:42 AM  

Turbo Cojones: cirby: sammyk:
Or you could just go to a gun show and buy pretty much anything you want without a background check for much cheaper.

No, you really can't.

You can buy all sorts of different firearms at a gun show, but that "without a background check" part is just plain false.

Why do people cling to the belief that private gun sellers at gun shows run background checks?  Cash is King, and none of them give a crap what on plan on doing with that gun later.

If you'd like an education, call one of THESE http://thriftynickelpensacola.com/ad-category-pensacola-fl- thrifty-nic kel/sporting-goods-thrifty-nickel-pensacola-fl-classifieds/ clowns and educate yourself.

This is why it' called the "gun show loophole", and it's a perfect venue for ineligible people to acquire their guns.


There is no gun show loophole.  It doesn't exist, it never has, it's not real.

In most states, private sales are legal.  But that has NOTHING to do with gun shows.  There is no gun show loophole.

You see, gun shows are populated with dealers.  Dealers have to do background checks on every sale, being at a gun show changes nothing.  There is no gun show loophole.

Private sales by non-dealers are different.  In most states, it's actually impossible for a private seller to do a background check.  A private sale can happen anywhere.  There is no gun show loophole.

I apologize to the sane people here, I know it's annoying to read the same thing over and over again, but when the myth keeps coming up, perhaps repetition will get it through their idiot heads.  There is no gun show loophole.

/There is no gun show loophole.
//There is no gun show loophole.
///There is no gun show loophole.
///There is no gun show loophole.
 
2013-11-10 03:49:38 AM  
3d printers will revolutionize the human condition.

In 2142, when the ban caused by "3d gun printing" is lifted
 
2013-11-10 04:29:49 AM  
Z-clipped:
No. People don't like QA, because he says things they don't want to hear, in ways they don't like to hear them. But about the two subjects that he compulsively harps on, he's generally correct most of the time.

What QA consistently fails to address is that people are excited about additive manufacturing because it significantly simplifies the logistics of supply chains by virtue of a) using relatively generic feedstocks instead of a multitude of parts, b) flexibility through very low setup costs and c) using way less materials. Yes, it is more expensive right now and maybe even with lower quality. That is not the point and he is missing it consistently in an assholish way.
 
2013-11-10 05:41:16 AM  
I'm not of the flip-out anti-gun type, but how much would a computer with the processing power of an iPhone have cost 25 years ago?

The technology will come.
 
2013-11-10 07:51:54 AM  

AngryDragon: Exactly.  It's not the law-abiding that are illegally or unethically transferring firearms.  I know I would want a firearm registered to me, sold for a couple hundred quick bucks and no paperwork, to be used in a felony.  I'm certain the UFIA treatment that would follow would be totally worth it.


Why would anybody have firearms registered to them?

I guess that's your state.  Around here, I can walk into a gun shop, and walk out with whatever firearms I want, and as long as they are not Class III weapons there's no registry or permits required, provided they pass the NICS check.

Frankly, the idea of having to register firearms to a person is scary and Orwellian as far as I'm concerned.
 
2013-11-10 08:03:57 AM  

Silverstaff: I guess that's your state. Around here, I can walk into a gun shop, and walk out with whatever firearms I want, and as long as they are not Class III weapons there's no registry or permits required, provided they pass the NICS check.

Frankly, the idea of having to register firearms to a person is scary and Orwellian as far as I'm concerned.


So do I, so imagine my shock when the State Police of my non-registration state (PA) gave me a list of every firearm I own along with the previous owners when a "discrepancy" came up on my .45.

They know what you have, citizen, registration or not. Sweet dreams.
 
2013-11-10 08:36:15 AM  

Silverstaff: AngryDragon: Exactly.  It's not the law-abiding that are illegally or unethically transferring firearms.  I know I would want a firearm registered to me, sold for a couple hundred quick bucks and no paperwork, to be used in a felony.  I'm certain the UFIA treatment that would follow would be totally worth it.

Why would anybody have firearms registered to them?

I guess that's your state.  Around here, I can walk into a gun shop, and walk out with whatever firearms I want, and as long as they are not Class III weapons there's no registry or permits required, provided they pass the NICS check.

Frankly, the idea of having to register firearms to a person is scary and Orwellian as far as I'm concerned.


No disagreement from me.  Unfortunately that's not reality in many jurisdictions.
 
2013-11-10 09:41:30 AM  

Z-clipped: If there's one lesson to be learned from Fark, it's that being an asshole and being correct aren't mutually exclusive

.

One extremely basic fact of life that few people ever learn is that life is not a popularity contest.

Another is that brilliant people can be very wrong sometimes, and sometimes even amazingly stupid. E.g., Nietzsche on politics.

As for tying a person to a firearm, whether upfront through registration or underhandedly as Adolf Oliver Nipples said, that's one reason I'd hesitate to sell a firearm to someone who I didn't just see pass a licensed dealer's NICS: I'd want to be able to prove that that firearm was a) no longer mine and b) was not knowingly transferred to someone who the FBI says should not own one.

At the very least I'd want the buyer to sign a document that should absolve me of any culpability. Let the obvious crook steal one from your car at night instead. (Hint: after you've seen cars with broken out windows all over town don't leave anything in your car you wouldn't freely give to any total stranger; this is another basic fact most people cannot learn.)

This does not mean that everybody who is not legally allowed to own or buy a firearm cannot be trusted with one, or even that s/he would not betray me by not using the gun obtained from me for an illegal purpose (as in "I think I'll rob that gas station with the gun I stole from that Corvette instead"), only that the government is a very big and nosy gorilla. Whose dictates sometimes make sense and sometimes don't, and are always "enforceable" at gunpoint. (Does anybody believe that every law enforcement officer should have a firearm? Can you say "Rampart?")

As for NICS and gun shows, the Wikipedia article on NICS says this:

"The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is applicable to sales from federally licensed dealers. Sales of firearms by private sellers are allowed to proceed without a background check unless required by state law. These regulations remain in place at gun shows, where no special leniency is granted to licensed sellers, and no additional requirements are placed upon private sellers."

Additional information about NICS is available from the FBI through such channels as this link here.
 
2013-11-10 11:47:35 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Fubini: That said, handguns have been "accurate enough" for most uses for about 100 years or so now, so maybe it's all moot.

Luddite. We have now reached the point where we can reproduce 19th century technology in a much more complex, expensive and resource-intensive way than before.

If that isn't the future you want to live in, well then I suggest you grab the next Virgin Galactic Space Ship to Moon Colony Gingrich.


I want to, I really really do...
 
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