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(The New York Times)   Hhmm, hello, excuse me, the US economy is not in recovery   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Scary, United States  
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6254 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Nov 2013 at 12:08 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-08 09:31:56 AM
As usual, Krugman is 100% correct. The deficit hawks are some of the stupidest humans on the planet. That any of them have any say in our fiscal policy is a crime.
 
2013-11-08 09:53:12 AM
Page is paywalled for me.....
 
2013-11-08 10:19:28 AM

Snotnose: Page is paywalled for me.....


Blow away your cookies and restart. Many sites will hit you with the paywall after 5-10 visits.
 
2013-11-08 10:26:26 AM
I'm actually writing this from the big research conference held each year by the International Monetary Fund. The theme of this year's shindig is the causes and consequences of economic crises, and the presentations range in subject from the good (Latin America's surprising stability in recent years) to the bad (the ongoing crisis in Europe) A Night Under the Stars.
 
2013-11-08 10:36:10 AM
So the only solution is....another government shutdown?
 
2013-11-08 10:43:08 AM
"And it is, as I said, a bitter irony, because one main reason we've done so little about unemployment is the preaching of deficit scolds, who have wrapped themselves in the mantle of long-run responsibility - which they have managed to get identified in the public mind almost entirely with holding down government debt."


Yep, it's another example of Republican wrongheadedness. When was the last time Conservatives were right about anything?
 
2013-11-08 10:44:08 AM

phaseolus: When was the last time Conservatives were right about anything?


Nixon resigned...
 
2013-11-08 10:47:41 AM

Outtaphase: Snotnose: Page is paywalled for me.....

Blow away your cookies and restart. Many sites will hit you with the paywall after 5-10 visits.


Awesome tip.  Thanks.
 
2013-11-08 10:50:38 AM

phaseolus: When was the last time Conservatives were right about anything?


Give it a few years and we'll see how well rolling out Romneycare nationwide works out.
 
2013-11-08 10:53:26 AM

phaseolus: When was the last time Conservatives were right about anything?


When the Heritage Foundation proposed an insurance mandate to pay for health care costs?

/OK, maybe they weren't exactly right- single payer is the right answer there. But they were closer than usual.
 
2013-11-08 10:55:43 AM

Dinki: The deficit hawks are some of the stupidest humans on the planet.


And yet they are winning the argument. All the super duper liberal media talks about is the deficit and debt. It's a crisis! $17 trillion! Saddling our children with debowehrhw'!!!

We don't have a deficit problem, we have an inequality problem. We don't have a debt problem, we have a jobs problem.
 
2013-11-08 10:56:33 AM

phaseolus: When was the last time Conservatives were right about anything?


Well by definition they're against any sort of change so if they ever are right, it isn't for very long.
 
2013-11-08 10:57:00 AM
FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-11-08 10:57:07 AM
So far the only solution to the recession presented by the Republicans has been to eliminate taxation for the richest 1% of the population who already own 40% of America's wealth.   The Democrats have made a few attempts improve the economy but have been shot down at every turn by the GOP.

Personally, I think we need to slap a 50% import tax on every product made outside the US.  Then maybe there will be some incentive by US corporations to bring the millions of jobs back home from their "outsource" vacation.

Anyone who believes we can compete with nations like China and India, when they are literally using slave labor to product products, is just fooling themselves.

I can buy ten CR2032 batteries and have them shipped half way around the planet for a total cost of $1 or $2.  How is it possible for America to compete with a situation like this???
 
2013-11-08 11:02:53 AM

cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest


Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.
 
2013-11-08 11:02:59 AM

cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?


Seriously? Why the hatred? Where the fark have you been?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-11-08 11:03:20 AM

NFA: Anyone who believes we can compete with nations like China and India, when they are literally using slave labor to product products, is just fooling themselves.


That's what caused the problem in the first place.

It used to be that you had to make products in the USA if you wanted to sell them here, either that or you had to pay for the privilege.

Then we decided to stop using our control of access to the largest consumer market in the world to benefit ordinary people and started using it to help the wealthy make money overseas.
 
2013-11-08 11:04:04 AM

cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.


Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?
 
2013-11-08 11:04:47 AM

cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest


welcome to Fark.
 
2013-11-08 11:08:10 AM

NFA: Personally, I think we need to slap a 50% import tax on every product made outside the US.


Excellent, we can then add more data points to the study of how customs wars hurt everyone involved.
 
2013-11-08 11:09:08 AM

NFA: So far the only solution to the recession presented by the Republicans has been to eliminate taxation for the richest 1% of the population who already own 40% of America's wealth.   The Democrats have made a few attempts improve the economy but have been shot down at every turn by the GOP.


True.

Personally, I think we need to slap a 50% import tax on every product made outside the US.  Then maybe there will be some incentive by US corporations to bring the millions of jobs back home from their "outsource" vacation.

This is trade protectionism, and would be a violation of a number of treaties that US is not just signatory to, but helped write. It would result in all kinds of uproar, a trade war, and all of us doing without most of the various electronics we have all come to know and love. In 20 years we might balance things out, but in the interim life would suck.

Anyone who believes we can compete with nations like China and India, when they are literally using slave labor to product products, is just fooling themselves.

There are ways to compete. Just like there are ways to run a giant discount warehouse company that still pays its workers something like a living wage. It's more a question of mindset than of math. 

I can buy ten CR2032 batteries and have them shipped half way around the planet for a total cost of $1 or $2.  How is it possible for America to compete with a situation like this???

By accepting that yes, you pay somewhat more up front for your consumer goods - $2.50 instead of $2 - but it's worth it, because it keeps that money in the economy and helps boost us all up. It's like the 'buy local/reject Wal-Mart' movement, writ large.

We don't need a shift in production so much as we need a shift in mindset and values.
 
2013-11-08 11:10:52 AM
GEE

THIS IS GOING WELL
 
2013-11-08 11:17:10 AM

cman: Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?


When have they done that? Certainly not this millennium.

Fuk Republicans. Fuk'em hard.

They're economic ideas are closer to religious dogma than rational theory. They dismiss all empirical evidence that disprove their ideas as if it's heresy, rather than hard data. And they consistently have to lie and distort to even make their ideas palatable to the general public.

"Hatred" is better than they deserve.

Republican response to someone simply performing statistical analysis:
growlersoftware.com
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-11-08 11:30:02 AM

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?


The real problem is that Republicans have NEVER been interested in WORKING to fix any problem.  They exist to put money in the pockets of their donors.  PERIOD.  They spew forth a bunch of flag waving propaganda for the their sub-normal IQ followers and at the same time crap all over our nation's future.  They literally designed the concept of massive deficit spending during the Reagan administration by tripling the national debt, then they doubled the national debt again during the Bush administration.  Bush did this during a time of economic prosperity.

Yet, even though Obama inherited the worst economy since the great depression and two TRILLION dollar wars, somehow the Republicans find fault with his ability to clean up THEIR MESS!  So they crap on the economy and the nation as a whole, then when it's time to pay the bills, their only solution is to give the wealthiest (who benefited from the GOP's spending and wars) yet another tax break while at the same time they cry about deficit spending.

They break the economy and their only solution is to break it more.

Many people don't remember how the Republicans defended their deficit spending.  Dick Cheney literally said "Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter". Now that their policies have broken the economy they blame the Democrats and insist on a fatter cut of the cake for their donors.  Reagan referred to cutting taxes below the amount needed to run the government, as "STARVING THE BEAST".  So what if it takes deficit spending to pay for the military, pay for the FBI, pay for the border patrol, pay for the CIA, NSA, NRO, etc. etc.

It's like visiting a mental hospital that has a special ward for sociopaths who are allowed to run the hospital.
 
2013-11-08 11:45:36 AM
"...The evidence is overwhelming that by failing to respond effectively to mass unemployment - by not even making unemployment a major policy priority - we've done ourselves immense long-term damage."

www.motherjones.com

Link
 
2013-11-08 11:49:23 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: We don't have a deficit problem, we have an inequality problem. We don't have a debt problem, we have a jobs problem.


I don't see that changing.  Like you said, the television media isn't even on the same page.  They are completely unwilling or unable to confront the Republicans on their austerity bullshiat.  People like my parents, in Georgia who voted for Obama because of the whackadoos the Republicans have been propping up, honestly believe the country is like their personal finances and they vote what they think is fiscal conservatism. i.e.- reduced spending.  Cutting the military budget to them isn't a good idea, mostly because they spent half of their adult lives being civilian contractors on base and now my sister and her husband have followed in their footsteps but by god, we need to reduce spending because we're broke.

I guess the freakin' aliens came down and built the Hoover Damn, the TVA and the Interstate Highway system.
 
2013-11-08 11:58:23 AM

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?


Are you taking simple pills?

When Medicare Part D rolled out and it was a shiatastrophe, Democrats worked with Republicans to fix it. The website was shiat. Signups were a disaster. 5 YEARS it sucked. Remember how Democrats called for congressional hearings? No. Because they DIDN'T. They worked with Republicans to fix the problem.

Let's compare that to the Republican reaction to the ACA rollout...

So fark off until you want to join the real world.
 
2013-11-08 12:12:00 PM

cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.


Because the single best thing the American people could do today is forcibly remove all republicans from national office.
 
2013-11-08 12:14:40 PM

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?


Then can't even work with other Republicans.
 
2013-11-08 12:15:35 PM

cman: Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?


both sides are bad? edgy post, breh.
 
2013-11-08 12:16:09 PM
Maybe a organization as incompetent as the US Gov't should just not try and mess with the economy, it seems they do more harm than good. Just setup good regulation, enforce them and sit back. It is like having a meth head doctor try to do open heart surgery, best he just not operate.
 
2013-11-08 12:17:01 PM
You know what history says, if you don't a middle class, you won't have much of an economy.  The greater the Income inequality the more stagnant the economy is.
 
2013-11-08 12:17:42 PM
www.bls.gov

The economy recovered for everybody with an education. If you want a job that can be done by uneducated third world laborers.... move to the third world. I don't really know what else to say. At some point Americans are going to have to accept that menial labor isn't going to be a sustainable career path anymore and it's not coming back in large numbers or for constant periods of time. If you want a decent and reasonably stable income, you're going to have to either go to school or learn a trade.
 
2013-11-08 12:17:42 PM

HotGore: Maybe a organization as incompetent as the US Gov't should just not try and mess with the economy, it seems they do more harm than good. Just setup good regulation, enforce them and sit back. It is like having a meth head doctor try to do open heart surgery, best he just not operate.


Um...what do you think the government does with respect to the economy that's not setting up regulations and enforcing them?
 
2013-11-08 12:18:14 PM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Because the single best thing the American people could do today is forcibly remove all republicans from national office.


Before doing that on a nationwide scale, should we look at various local & state governments that are run entirely by Democrats with no realistic Republican challenges? See how they do?

/I believe that having any party in power with no actual challenges tends to lead to corruption, but I'm willing to look at the data if someone happens to know of some research.
 
2013-11-08 12:18:51 PM
The milquetoast liberal needs to stop being the loudest voice on the left.

Once, this country had an energetic and powerful labor movement. Working class men and women stood together against their oppressors.

Then we let in the hippies. Hippie ideals are great: we should all strive for peace, love and harmony.

But we live in a time of class struggle. We can't be free to be peaceful and loving and harmonious while we bend under the yoke of capitalist oppression.

Now is not the time for meekness.
 
2013-11-08 12:19:52 PM
 

Dusk-You-n-Me: "...The evidence is overwhelming that by failing to respond effectively to mass unemployment - by not even making unemployment a major policy priority - we've done ourselves immense long-term damage."

[www.motherjones.com image 597x308]

Link


from your, chart if I extrapolated GDP trend from 92-00 the "potential GDP" would look much different,
 
2013-11-08 12:20:45 PM

draypresct: Obama's Reptiloid Master: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Because the single best thing the American people could do today is forcibly remove all republicans from national office.

Before doing that on a nationwide scale, should we look at various local & state governments that are run entirely by Democrats with no realistic Republican challenges? See how they do?

/I believe that having any party in power with no actual challenges tends to lead to corruption, but I'm willing to look at the data if someone happens to know of some research.


That's true. Locally and state-wide this is mitigated. But the national republicans have shown an unwillingness to actually govern.

I think we should elect conservative, moderate and liberal Democrats and independents. It's the RNC and its backers that are the problem.
 
2013-11-08 12:23:17 PM
Interesting when some people trot out how we should all work together instead of pointing out faults, its usually from a GOP defender trying to stop people from calling the republicans out on their bullshiat.
 
2013-11-08 12:23:42 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: "...The evidence is overwhelming that by failing to respond effectively to mass unemployment - by not even making unemployment a major policy priority - we've done ourselves immense long-term damage."


The economy in a capitalist society is an equilibrium of supply and demand.  If either supply or demand is changed then the equilibrium will change.  It should be expected that if fewer people work then demand will be reduced.  If demand is reduced then the equilibrium will shift.
 
2013-11-08 12:25:35 PM
"We can't even hire unemployed workers and put idle savings to work building roads, tunnels, schools."

Is this the part where Krugman pretends that a laid-off software engineer can simply be redeployed into operating a highway construction crane?
 
2013-11-08 12:26:16 PM

mediablitz: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: FFS, guys

Why this hatred?

It does no one any good

9 posts in an already this place is a flamefest

Because we understand that "working with Republicans" is a stupid idea.

Just like Republicans understand that "working with Democrats" is a stupid idea, too?

Are you taking simple pills?

When Medicare Part D rolled out and it was a shiatastrophe, Democrats worked with Republicans to fix it. The website was shiat. Signups were a disaster. 5 YEARS it sucked. Remember how Democrats called for congressional hearings? No. Because they DIDN'T. They worked with Republicans to fix the problem.

Let's compare that to the Republican reaction to the ACA rollout...

So fark off until you want to join the real world.


That's just....never going to happen with our little buddy there.  He's never been in this world.  In his world, rmoney and all the answers,and we should have just TRUSTED HIM to do what's right.
 
2013-11-08 12:26:34 PM

NeverDrunk23: Interesting when some people trot out how we should all work together instead of pointing out faults, its usually from a GOP defender trying to stop people from calling the republicans out on their bullshiat.


What's even more interesting is that in 5 years the GOP hasn't actually done a single thing, proposed a single solution or even attempted to participate honestly in the discussion. All they've done is point out Obama's and the democrats' faults (real or imagined).

Even if Obama and the dems really were the gigantic failures the GOP pretends them to be.... at least they actually farking tried something.
 
2013-11-08 12:27:33 PM

GoldSpider: "We can't even hire unemployed workers and put idle savings to work building roads, tunnels, schools."

Is this the part where Krugman pretends that a laid-off software engineer can simply be redeployed into operating a highway construction crane?


Because all the guys without jobs are the ones with high skill sets?  Or did you completely miss the point about how this recession is mostly hurting the lesser-skilled and educated?
 
2013-11-08 12:28:35 PM

GoldSpider: Is this the part where Krugman pretends that a laid-off software engineer can simply be redeployed into operating a highway construction crane?


Why would he pretend that? There's no need.


stateofworkingamerica.org
 
2013-11-08 12:28:36 PM

Outtaphase: Snotnose: Page is paywalled for me.....

Blow away your cookies and restart. Many sites will hit you with the paywall after 5-10 visits.


You can just tell your browser to open the link in an incognito tab or private tab, or whatever your browser of choice calls them, without messing with your cookies or restarting.
 
2013-11-08 12:31:23 PM
You know what would have been awesome for the US economy? Not invading two countries and spending trillions on nothing.
 
2013-11-08 12:31:50 PM
Hhmm, hello, excuse me, the US economy is not in recovery


and the fuking worthless GOP is going to make sure it stays that way.

they need to put one of their criminals in the white house (and the Senate) and they can't do that if the Dems are successful with the economy and job creation.


DUH!
 
2013-11-08 12:33:27 PM

qorkfiend: HotGore: Maybe a organization as incompetent as the US Gov't should just not try and mess with the economy, it seems they do more harm than good. Just setup good regulation, enforce them and sit back. It is like having a meth head doctor try to do open heart surgery, best he just not operate.

Um...what do you think the government does with respect to the economy that's not setting up regulations and enforcing them?


Subsidies, special tax breaks, anything where the US gov't is trying intervening economically. Keep in mind that the Republicans and to a lesser extent Democrats have been creating a plutocracy for a very long time. Surprisingly these big companies don't really give a shiat about the US or the people that work for them.
 
2013-11-08 12:35:29 PM
Wake up,America.

Big Business and the wealthy owns your ass and your government.  they are what matters. they can move to their overseas homes if things get too bad here.  you cannot.

and that is the reason we are in the place we're in.
 
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