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(Politico)   Education debates begin with "It's all about the children" and move from there directly to poo-flinging   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Diane Ravitch, Common Core, Clinton White House, Walton family, trash-talk, student test, academic standards, charter schools  
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923 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Nov 2013 at 12:19 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-08 10:43:06 AM  
I learned nothing from that article.
 
2013-11-08 11:15:34 AM  
All public schools in the US should be changed to boarding schools.  Without the parents around to distract the kids and complain bitterly when their little special rainbow child isn't given an "A", they will excel.

More beatings and sodomy will make this country great again.
 
2013-11-08 11:16:56 AM  
Hu Flung Poo?
 
2013-11-08 12:01:05 PM  
Why shouldn't we expect teachers to act like children? They're around children all day, their lives revolve around the school calendar and school events. And they're likely more susceptible than most to assimilative effects, since they actually chose to work with children. They already like the little beasts.
"Going Native" has been a recognized occupational hazard ever since the days of the East India Company. The EIC would regularly rotate employees out of India in order to minimize the risk of Christians falling under the sway of heathen behaviour, and we should do the same with educators. Make it so they can only teach 3 out of every four years, and the other year they have to get real jobs, with grownups uninfected by any sympathy for children. That should alleviate the problem.
 
2013-11-08 12:22:11 PM  
 
2013-11-08 12:28:21 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Why shouldn't we expect teachers to act like children? They're around children all day, their lives revolve around the school calendar and school events. And they're likely more susceptible than most to assimilative effects, since they actually chose to work with children. They already like the little beasts.
"Going Native" has been a recognized occupational hazard ever since the days of the East India Company. The EIC would regularly rotate employees out of India in order to minimize the risk of Christians falling under the sway of heathen behaviour, and we should do the same with educators. Make it so they can only teach 3 out of every four years, and the other year they have to get real jobs, with grownups uninfected by any sympathy for children. That should alleviate the problem.


Oddly I have the same solution for police and slaughterhouse workers.
 
2013-11-08 12:28:41 PM  
SEX: do it for the children.
 
2013-11-08 12:29:19 PM  

Sybarite: Hu Flung Poo?



that was a great book.
 
2013-11-08 12:34:34 PM  
If the politicians/companies pushing for the "private voucher", urban school improvement, anti-union laziness side had ANY history of actually supporting that democraphic in other ways I could just about buy their argument.

However, considering every single other social/tax/rights policy they have championed have been a giant fark you to those same people I find their "pure" motives to not be even slightly believable.
 
2013-11-08 12:35:14 PM  
It doesn't matter. Any candidate rejecting these alluring programs invites being labeled a scrooge, mean-spirited and, worse of all, impervious to the democratic voice of the people. Just look at the current demonization of the Tea Party. That these demands, despite their compassion, are a recipe for ruin matters not.  No wonder that elections typically resemble a pandering competition -- nobody knows the real costs, "somebody else pays," downsides are never mentioned, everything works as promised and everybody will live happily ever afterward.
 
2013-11-08 12:41:17 PM  
Kids are involved, so for advocates that are also parents (either teachers or otherwise), it automatically becomes an attack on your parenting skills, and the vitriol that flows from some people when they try to defend themselves overshadows any more nuanced and tame discussion.

//See it at PTA meetings too, over something as silly as jog-a-thon fundraiser awards for children...
 
2013-11-08 12:46:15 PM  
There hasn't been any productive discussion on how best to educate our children in this nation in 30 years[1].  Since the 80's education discussions revolve around charter schools and competition, unions, standardized tests, teacher salaries, religion and lists of books kids should read.  None of those issues address the core question of how best to present material to children of various ages and backgrounds in a manner that allows them to retain and use the information.  It is no wonder the US is falling behind the rest of the industrialized world.


[1] Core Curriculum is a very resent exception
 
2013-11-08 12:48:32 PM  

Serious Black: Maybe we should do what Finland does since they're the best in the world...


They have a nationalized curriculum and don't demonize teachers, instead choosing to regard them as being as important as doctors?

Sign me up.
 
2013-11-08 12:48:33 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Why shouldn't we expect teachers to act like children?


Firstly, Teachers don't really contribute to education policy or the debates talked about in TFA.

Secondly, if the administrators and activists were acting like children, that would be a significant improvement.  Schoolkids are kinda crude and half-formed at times, but it's their actual life and they're capable of prioritizing practical considerations and compromising with others to avoid trouble even if they don't want to be there, as such.  The problem is that the politicians are acting like  parents, who are the dumbest motherfarkers you'll ever find this side of a Tea Party rally hosting guest speaker Sarah Palin.
 
2013-11-08 12:50:29 PM  

Muta: Since the 80's education discussions revolve around charter schools and competition, unions, standardized tests, teacher salaries, religion and lists of books kids should read.


I should add scapegoating to my list (kids too lazy and coddled, parents to involved and/or too uninvolved).
 
2013-11-08 12:51:26 PM  

Muta: There hasn't been any productive discussion on how best to educate our children in this nation in 30 years[1].  Since the 80's education discussions revolve around charter schools and competition, unions, standardized tests, teacher salaries, religion and lists of books kids should read.  None of those issues address the core question of how best to present material to children of various ages and backgrounds in a manner that allows them to retain and use the information.  It is no wonder the US is falling behind the rest of the industrialized world.


[1] Core Curriculum is a very resent exception


And it is being met with great resistance, because of a series of misunderstandings from teachers compounded with gross exaggerations and outright lies from opponents...
 
2013-11-08 01:09:10 PM  
Education isn't just about the children, though they are certainly the most immediately affected. It's also about the future of society, because you're essentially producing the people who build and maintain things for the next 30 years, then manage and run things for 30 years after that. If not enough of them can do this by the time their education is finished, it results in serious problems that ripple ahead of them for more than half a century at least, plus issues that will echo in their children and grandchildren which also need to be dealt when their time comes.

If resources and culture permit, a society can be quite resilient in the face of this, bearing a surprisingly high proportion of dysfunctional members before collapsing under its own weight. But there are limits that even the most utopian society can't afford to go beyond. A large part of the social function of education about keeping that limit as high as possible, and keeping society as far away from that limit as possible.
 
2013-11-08 01:12:06 PM  

Millennium: Education isn't just about the children, though they are certainly the most immediately affected. It's also about the future of society, because you're essentially producing the people who build and maintain things for the next 30 years, then manage and run things for 30 years after that. If not enough of them can do this by the time their education is finished, it results in serious problems that ripple ahead of them for more than half a century at least, plus issues that will echo in their children and grandchildren which also need to be dealt when their time comes.

If resources and culture permit, a society can be quite resilient in the face of this, bearing a surprisingly high proportion of dysfunctional members before collapsing under its own weight. But there are limits that even the most utopian society can't afford to go beyond. A large part of the social function of education about keeping that limit as high as possible, and keeping society as far away from that limit as possible.


And I've run into people that acknowledge that, and absolutely don't give a damn.  They got theirs, fark you, it's some other socioeconomic group that is dysfunctional not theirs, and they'll be dead before long anyways.
 
2013-11-08 01:15:29 PM  

meat0918: Millennium: Education isn't just about the children, though they are certainly the most immediately affected. It's also about the future of society, because you're essentially producing the people who build and maintain things for the next 30 years, then manage and run things for 30 years after that. If not enough of them can do this by the time their education is finished, it results in serious problems that ripple ahead of them for more than half a century at least, plus issues that will echo in their children and grandchildren which also need to be dealt when their time comes.

If resources and culture permit, a society can be quite resilient in the face of this, bearing a surprisingly high proportion of dysfunctional members before collapsing under its own weight. But there are limits that even the most utopian society can't afford to go beyond. A large part of the social function of education about keeping that limit as high as possible, and keeping society as far away from that limit as possible.

And I've run into people that acknowledge that, and absolutely don't give a damn.  They got theirs, fark you, it's some other socioeconomic group that is dysfunctional not theirs, and they'll be dead before long anyways.


They're probably the people who have no idea what the word "posterity" in the Goddamn Preamble means.
 
2013-11-08 01:44:41 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I learned nothing from that article.


Much like the sad state of American education.
 
2013-11-08 01:52:01 PM  

super_grass: Bareefer Obonghit: I learned nothing from that article.

Much like the sad state of American education.


ur mom was in a sad state last night
 
2013-11-08 02:03:57 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: super_grass: Bareefer Obonghit: I learned nothing from that article.

Much like the sad state of American education.

ur mom was in a sad state last night


Because you were with her?

/wait
 
2013-11-08 02:19:44 PM  

super_grass: Bareefer Obonghit: super_grass: Bareefer Obonghit: I learned nothing from that article.

Much like the sad state of American education.

ur mom was in a sad state last night

Because you were with her?

/wait


I lold

/so did she :(
 
2013-11-08 02:40:35 PM  

Serious Black: They're probably the people who have no idea what the word "posterity" in the Goddamn Preamble means.


I think this could be a valid and useful description of an entire demographic. Yoinked for future use. :)
 
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