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(Hartford Courant)   Effort to overturn Stand Your Ground law gets shot down   (courant.com) divider line 119
    More: Florida, House Criminal Justice Subcommittee, first pass, Sanford Police Department, Steve Weatherford, repeal, neighborhood watch  
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3273 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Nov 2013 at 11:46 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-08 10:08:10 AM
Great, gun down whoever you want and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove you weren't in fear of your life.
 
2013-11-08 10:36:06 AM
"...But a bipartisan group of senators is supporting another measure that makes changes along the lines of the recommendations that came out of a task force appointed by Gov. Rick Scott last year after Trayvon's shooting.

"The Senate bill would require sheriffs and city police departments to set guidelines for Neighborhood Watch programs such as the one Zimmerman participated in and to restrict members to observing and reporting suspected crimes.

"The bill also would prohibit people who are the aggressors in confrontations from then claiming "stand your ground" immunity.
And it would specify that law enforcement must conduct a full investigation in shootings even if the law is claimed as a defense - a change spurred by the Sanford Police Department's claim that it couldn't do so in the Zimmerman case."



This, at least, is encouraging. If a law's not perfect, make it better and if it's truly horrible, scrap it. A law shouldn't be treated as holy writ just because it dovetails nicely with your favorite dogma and makes you feel better. Also I'd hope that reasonable judges and juries would disallow 'stand your ground' if the dead person was unarmed and fleeing.


"One of the Senate bill's more controversial provisions would allow lawsuits against people acting in self-defense if they negligently injure or kill an innocent bystander."


What's unreasonable about that?
 
2013-11-08 11:15:14 AM
Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.
 
2013-11-08 11:39:04 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.


Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.
 
2013-11-08 11:42:24 AM
Well, at the very least it's good news for the Florida tag.
 
2013-11-08 11:48:29 AM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-11-08 11:50:24 AM

Mugato: Great, gun down whoever you want and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove you weren't in fear of your life.


As opposed too???
 
2013-11-08 11:51:14 AM

jake_lex: PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.

Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.


You're full of shiat.
 
2013-11-08 11:51:57 AM

m1ke: [images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 600x300]


Yeah, we know you dream of shooting minorities someday, and having that be murder would make you very sad for you.
 
2013-11-08 11:52:00 AM
Because we want more Hispanics killing more blacks, right?
 
2013-11-08 11:52:01 AM
This law is perfect for Florida.
I like having all the crazy in one place.
Away from me.
 
2013-11-08 11:52:32 AM

Mugato: Great, gun down whoever you want and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove you weren't in fear of your life.


Except for the fact this isn't what happens, great point.

It's the exact same law that exists in many other states.  And it had nothing to do with Trayvon.
 
2013-11-08 11:53:58 AM

Begoggle: This law is perfect for Florida.
I like having all the crazy in one place.
Away from me.


Yeah, because it doesn't exist anywhere else.

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/07/22/5-things-to-know-about-stan d- your-ground-in-california/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Many states have some form of stand-your-ground law. Alabama,[18] Alaska,[19] Arizona,[20] California,[21][22][23] Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa,[24] Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana,[20] Maine, Massachusetts (though the term is used very loosely there),[25] Michigan,[20] Mississippi, Missouri,[26] Montana,[20] New Hampshire,[27] North Carolina,[20] North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma,[20] Pennsylvania,[28] Rhode Island,[29] South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee,[20] Texas,[30] Utah,[31] West Virginia,[20] Wisconsin[32] and Wyoming have adopted Castle Doctrine statutes, and other states (Iowa,[33] Virginia,[34] and Washington) have considered stand-your-ground laws of their own.

BUT DURR, FLORIDA AND TRAYVON.
 
2013-11-08 11:54:29 AM
Nope, that's true.  Reagan supported restrictions on automatic weapons after the Black Panthers started open carry.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/11/hardball-guest-nra-supported-g un -control-in-the-1960s-because-of-black-panthers/
 
2013-11-08 11:55:08 AM

keypusher: jake_lex: PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.

Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.

You're full of shiat.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-08 11:57:05 AM
That's weird, it wasn't even black letter law.
 
2013-11-08 11:58:12 AM
pic.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-08 11:58:53 AM
goddammitsomuch

i284.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-08 12:02:09 PM

Begoggle: This law is perfect for Florida.
I like having all the crazy in one place.
Away from me.


No doubt......the only place worse than Florida is Ohio, which has the honor of claiming two of the worst cities to live in......Cleveland and Dayton.  Shiat holes both.
 
2013-11-08 12:03:40 PM
Don't attack people, don't get shot. Seems legit in theory, if not always in application.
 
2013-11-08 12:04:38 PM

Begoggle: This law is perfect for Florida.
I like having all the crazy in one place.
Away from me.


And as a (St Petersburg) Florida resident, I feel the need to protect myself against the crazies, and unfortunately there are those out there that wish to threaten your life on an almost daily basis. You never know how far someone will go to get their way for something so small, like cutting them off.

Ive had a gun waved at me on two occasions, and Id like to have some kind of protection by the law if I ever need to take drastic measures protect myself. Hope I never have to, but like I said you never know who is going to pull a weapon on you.
 
2013-11-08 12:05:00 PM
Even without a stand your ground law, Zimmerman would have still rightfully gone free on self defense grounds.
 
2013-11-08 12:07:32 PM

Level5: Begoggle: This law is perfect for Florida.
I like having all the crazy in one place.
Away from me.

And as a (St Petersburg) Florida resident, I feel the need to protect myself against the crazies, and unfortunately there are those out there that wish to threaten your life on an almost daily basis. You never know how far someone will go to get their way for something so small, like cutting them off.

Ive had a gun waved at me on two occasions, and Id like to have some kind of protection by the law if I ever need to take drastic measures protect myself. Hope I never have to, but like I said you never know who is going to pull a weapon on you.


This. Live in a shiatty area of St Pete or Orlando for a month, then tell me how much you hate SYG.
 
2013-11-08 12:07:57 PM

tricycleracer: keypusher: jake_lex: PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.

Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.

You're full of shiat.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 603x603]


Someone just got burned.

/This thread again
//popcorn
 
2013-11-08 12:08:30 PM
Speaking of 2nd Amendment restrictions in California, when Bush II was in office during the last Presidency I tried to purchase an revolver in Oregon, but because I was a CA resident, I was refused.

Anyone know when this interstate restriction took place, and under whose leadership?
 
2013-11-08 12:09:08 PM

phaseolus: This, at least, is encouraging. If a law's not perfect, make it better and if it's truly horrible, scrap it. A law shouldn't be treated as holy writ just because it dovetails nicely with your favorite dogma and makes you feel better. Also I'd hope that reasonable judges and juries would disallow 'stand your ground' if the dead person was unarmed and fleeing.


Show us one case where someone claimed a stand your ground defense and shot the other guy in the back, thus, shooting the other guy fleeing.
 
2013-11-08 12:09:43 PM
Well, ok.  Claimed SYG and actually won.
 
2013-11-08 12:10:32 PM

m1ke: [images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 600x300]


This^
 
2013-11-08 12:11:39 PM

EdNortonsTwin: Speaking of 2nd Amendment restrictions in California, when Bush II was in office during the last Presidency I tried to purchase an revolver in Oregon, but because I was a CA resident, I was refused.

Anyone know when this interstate restriction took place, and under whose leadership?



I think that was because anyone from California is probably mentally unstable.....or liberal.
 
2013-11-08 12:12:55 PM

karnal: EdNortonsTwin: Speaking of 2nd Amendment restrictions in California, when Bush II was in office during the last Presidency I tried to purchase an revolver in Oregon, but because I was a CA resident, I was refused.

Anyone know when this interstate restriction took place, and under whose leadership?


I think that was because anyone from California is probably mentally unstable.....or liberal.


Thanks for that brilliant insight - good lookin out.
 
2013-11-08 12:13:09 PM
More than 30 states have stand-your-ground laws, but this keeps the Florida tag because of prejudice moderators.
 
2013-11-08 12:15:18 PM

jake_lex: PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.

Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.


Yep.  If you want to piss off a right winger, tell them the biggest and most sweeping gun laws signed into place in the People's Republic of California were from Governor Ronald Reagan.  Heads 'splode.  But it will sooth their butthurt to know that it was done against black people.
 
2013-11-08 12:15:19 PM
I have looked up the text of the proposed bill, but I am experiencing some difficulty in comprehending its implications as they relate to the statute commonly termed "stand your ground".

It states that provision section 776.013 of the Florida code, but that section serves only to define terms and conditions to which other laws relate, and is not itself the statute termed "stand your ground". 776.013 relates to the use of deadly force in the home, and thus is what is traditionally termed the "castle doctrine", which is a different and distinct standard for the use of deadly force.
In fact, the legislative proposal does not appear to eliminate the "stand your ground" provision of the law at all, as -- based upon my reading (which may be incorrect) -- the justification for using deadly force, without any duty to retreat, against an aggressor who created a reasonable fear of death or bodily injury remains within the amended statute 776.012.
 
2013-11-08 12:15:19 PM

bsharitt: Even without a stand your ground law, Zimmerman would have still rightfully gone free on self defense grounds.


Not if he didnt get out of the cock a doodle car!
 
2013-11-08 12:16:16 PM

karnal: EdNortonsTwin: Speaking of 2nd Amendment restrictions in California, when Bush II was in office during the last Presidency I tried to purchase an revolver in Oregon, but because I was a CA resident, I was refused.

Anyone know when this interstate restriction took place, and under whose leadership?


I think that was because anyone from California is probably mentally unstable.....or liberal.


Story must be false. He's from California so therefore a left wing whacko. But he wanted a gun... therefore he's a right wing Neo nazi.

Story contradicts itself.
 
2013-11-08 12:17:13 PM
sigh..  why does preview work but not the submit.....
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-11-08 12:17:41 PM

Level5: And as a (St Petersburg) Florida resident


I've lived on 4th Ave South near 4th Street for 3 years now and have never felt threatened in any way, and this includes midnight walks home from The Trop and 3am stumbles home from the bars.  I'll admit, my walking radius is pretty damn gentrified.
 
2013-11-08 12:19:32 PM
Good.  Cowardice in the face of goblins should not be encouraged
 
2013-11-08 12:20:43 PM

manhole: More than 30 states have stand-your-ground laws, but this keeps the Florida tag because of prejudice moderators.


I personally stand behind the moderation of prejudice.
 
2013-11-08 12:20:52 PM

tricycleracer: Level5: And as a (St Petersburg) Florida resident

I've lived on 4th Ave South near 4th Street for 3 years now and have never felt threatened in any way, and this includes midnight walks home from The Trop and 3am stumbles home from the bars.  I'll admit, my walking radius is pretty damn gentrified.


Once you get south of USF it starts to get pretty sketchy at night. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable walking around 4th at any time, that's a pretty decent neighborhood.
 
2013-11-08 12:24:30 PM
Good.  The law is a good one and needs to be everywhere.  Stop the thugs!
 
2013-11-08 12:27:22 PM

jake_lex: PC LOAD LETTER: Part of me wishes that minorities would become massive Second Amendment nuts. That would mix things up a bit.

Gun control was actually a big right-wing issue in the 60s and 70s, when all those pictures of the Black Panthers posing with AK-47s, and Malcolm X's "the bullet or the ballot" speech, started making the rounds. You didn't really them switch over to this position against any and all restrictions on gun ownership until the '80s.


It's interesting how this has become the talking point the further we get away from those times. The fact is, many people of all political stripes were in favor of gun control to minimize the public carrying of weapons. Ronald Reagan was never a huge supporter of the 2nd amendment despite what some people think. It was actually the weakest part of his right-wing credentials. He was in favor of firearms being owned and carried for self-defense but against modern sporting rifles.

However, in 1977, the NRA had a coup and it became staunchly right-wing. And what did it do after that? It disavowed any support of the Mulford Act.

Yet, those who say gun control is racist probably won't disavow gun control. So I guess that makes them racist.
 
2013-11-08 12:28:11 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: tricycleracer: Level5: And as a (St Petersburg) Florida resident

I've lived on 4th Ave South near 4th Street for 3 years now and have never felt threatened in any way, and this includes midnight walks home from The Trop and 3am stumbles home from the bars.  I'll admit, my walking radius is pretty damn gentrified.

Once you get south of USF it starts to get pretty sketchy at night. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable walking around 4th at any time, that's a pretty decent neighborhood.


Im on 4th ave n & Central, and Im inclined to agree with you. Through there have been a couple instances where people walking by have had something to say, for the hell of it I suppose, for no reason as I was obviously minding my own business. It doesnt take much to piss someone off and you dont know whats going to transpose of the situation. There is no trust or "givens" when dealing with the demographic. Better safe than sorry, right?
 
2013-11-08 12:29:33 PM
It's the perfect murder. You claim you wuz a-skeerd and you kill the only witness.
 
2013-11-08 12:30:18 PM

Mugato: Great, gun down whoever you want and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove you weren't in fear of your life.


If you were in the same situation, do you not want the burden of proof on the prosecution?   I know I would be.
 
2013-11-08 12:32:31 PM
tricycleracer:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 603x603]

1. Ronald Reagan is not the entirety of the NRA.
2. This NRA is not that NRA.  They significantly changed direction in 1977 to focus their efforts on gun rights as before their focus was on hunting and conservation.
3. Somebody better tell the NRA they're afraid of minorities, because somehow they ended up with this guy doing commentary for them.
 
2013-11-08 12:32:59 PM

Cygnus God of Balance: I personally stand behind the moderation of prejudice.


Everything is good in moderation.
it almost makes me want to move there.
Well, except for that ghey stuff and a couple of potent poisons.
And never bacon.
 
2013-11-08 12:33:31 PM
FTFA: Florida lawmakers late Thursday voted down a bill to repeal the "stand your ground" law linked to the shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin.

ONE MORE TIME YOU IGNORANT C*CKGOBBLERS....

"Stand your ground" was NEVER asserted by Zimmerman in the case.  ONLY BY THE MEDIA.
 
2013-11-08 12:34:07 PM
So far, there has been no spectacular case involving Florida's SYG law working out "not as intended".
When that incident happens, the law will be repealed.
 
2013-11-08 12:36:35 PM

EdNortonsTwin: Speaking of 2nd Amendment restrictions in California, when Bush II was in office during the last Presidency I tried to purchase an revolver in Oregon, but because I was a CA resident, I was refused.

Anyone know when this interstate restriction took place, and under whose leadership?


Anyone, anyone, Bueller???
 
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