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(Gizmodo)   The trick to disposing of nuclear waste may be to turn it into glass   (gizmodo.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting, nuclear waste, glasses, nuclear power, refuses  
•       •       •

2988 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Nov 2013 at 3:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-07 03:04:51 PM  
Or we could, you know, overturn the stupid law and make reactors that burn the stuff...
 
2013-11-07 03:05:24 PM  
Find out how this mom found one weird trick to make nuclear waste disposal experts hate her!
 
2013-11-07 03:05:50 PM  
what would be the fall out from something like this?
 
2013-11-07 03:06:12 PM  
The 1960s called and want their research back.

/TFA says "this isn't new" and references an article from 2011
//I read about this when I was a kid in 1973
 
2013-11-07 03:07:09 PM  
Vitrification.  Been around for a while.
 
2013-11-07 03:10:44 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Or we could, you know, overturn the stupid law and make reactors that burn the stuff...


Nah, that's a solution.  It's best for re-election purposes and fund raising to keep the problem alive forever.
 
2013-11-07 03:12:51 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Or we could, you know, overturn the stupid law and make reactors that burn the stuff...


China is already doing that.
 
2013-11-07 03:22:42 PM  
Normally I would think that this is a waste of time. But, there might be something to this

It might not just stop at getting rid of nuclear waste. Testing on these kinds of materials could bring unknown technological benefits.
 
2013-11-07 03:23:58 PM  
old news is so exciting
 
2013-11-07 03:27:24 PM  
Step 1: Turn random crap at nuclear facility into glass
Step 2:...
Step 3: profit!
 
2013-11-07 03:28:46 PM  
Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the <insert face melting picture from Raiders of the Lost Ark>
 
2013-11-07 03:36:25 PM  
This process isn't used on actual spent rods or anything, but instead on things like used filters, personal protective equipment, and leftover metal and stone from decommissioned plants.


Well, it seems like a good way to drastically reduce the size of fairly harmless rad waste.
 
2013-11-07 03:42:28 PM  
I'm sure it doesn't take someone with a PhD in nuclear engineering to tell you that this is very, very old news... but I have one, so let me assure you that it is.
 
2013-11-07 03:53:46 PM  

forteblast: I'm sure it doesn't take someone with a PhD in nuclear engineering to tell you that this is very, very old news... but I have one, so let me assure you that it is.



I didn't think things like PPE and filters/swipes/whatever were sent through the vit processing?
 
2013-11-07 04:00:32 PM  

FrancoFile: The 1960s called and want their research back.

/TFA says "this isn't new" and references an article from 2011
//I read about this when I was a kid in 1973


Yeah, that.

Vitrification uses lots of energy, too, but that may be a fair trade to secure waste from getting into water tables.
 
2013-11-07 04:02:26 PM  

cman: Normally I would think that this is a waste of time. But, there might be something to this

It might not just stop at getting rid of nuclear waste. Testing on these kinds of materials could bring unknown technological benefits.


Indeed.  Researchers investigating these new "glass" materials have already suggested putting thin, flat pieces over holes in walls.  We could see right through the wall, without letting in the rain and cold and flies!  What a time to be alive.
 
2013-11-07 04:05:53 PM  

StopLurkListen: FrancoFile: The 1960s called and want their research back.

/TFA says "this isn't new" and references an article from 2011
//I read about this when I was a kid in 1973

Yeah, that.

Vitrification uses lots of energy, too, but that may be a fair trade to secure waste from getting into water tables.


Hanford is going to kill everything along the Columbia, so I'm getting a kick out offfmmmmmmmmmrrrrrllllllhhhhhck!
 
2013-11-07 04:06:30 PM  
I believe the Vitreous State Laboratory has been in NW DC since '89.
 
2013-11-07 04:12:20 PM  

UberDave: This process isn't used on actual spent rods or anything, but instead on things like used filters, personal protective equipment, and leftover metal and stone from decommissioned plants.


Well, it seems like a good way to drastically reduce the size of fairly harmless rad waste.


 This is kinda old news..

That stuff isn't harmless though. It contains particles of Highly Enriched Uranium, Plutonium, and
other stuff that goes along with the decay of those and the stuff they contact during processing.
Internal contamination with that stuff is pretty much going to give you cancer. It needs to be locked up into
a form that can't get into water or air or into people or animals. It's not just the gloves and beakers and
filters, but the REAL nasty stuff, like the waste in the Hanford tank farms. Concentrated waste of oil,salts,
heavy metals,NASTY chemicals and of course Uranium and Plutonium.  That is the stuff we have to get rid
of. to process that stuff to get the good parts would just make more waste. It's a case of diminishing
returns.Lock it up in glass, and stick it under a mountain in Nevada. That is really the best option IMHO.
 
2013-11-07 04:26:25 PM  
I see that vitrification and Hanford have already been mentioned. It's a shiat show to end all shiat shows.

Just this past month:

They canned a 40+ year manager, who has come out saying the design's process could result in an explosion & uncontrolled nuclear reaction.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/18/2630678/hanford-whistleblow er -on-cbs-morning.html

The project is decades behind, and unbelievably behind budget - enough that they're about to break quite a few court ordered deadlines.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/08/2615661/remaining-vit-plant -d eadlines.html

Oh, and it's sitting on top of a fairly major & active fault line.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/11/01/2653283/study-richland-nucl ea r-plant-downplaying.html

But you know, nuclear power is great!
 
2013-11-07 04:31:38 PM  

MrSteve007: I see that vitrification and Hanford have already been mentioned. It's a shiat show to end all shiat shows.

Just this past month:

They canned a 40+ year manager, who has come out saying the design's process could result in an explosion & uncontrolled nuclear reaction.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/18/2630678/hanford-whistleblow er -on-cbs-morning.html

The project is decades behind, and unbelievably behind budget - enough that they're about to break quite a few court ordered deadlines.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/08/2615661/remaining-vit-plant -d eadlines.html

Oh, and it's sitting on top of a fairly major & active fault line.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/11/01/2653283/study-richland-nucl ea r-plant-downplaying.html

But you know, nuclear power is great!


Nuclear power is great.

A government weapons lab, founded early in the nuclear age and crucial to fighting the Cold War, and operated with unnecessary levels of secrecy and little-to-no accountability?  That's bad.
 
2013-11-07 04:36:58 PM  

FrancoFile: MrSteve007: I see that vitrification and Hanford have already been mentioned. It's a shiat show to end all shiat shows.

Just this past month:

They canned a 40+ year manager, who has come out saying the design's process could result in an explosion & uncontrolled nuclear reaction.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/18/2630678/hanford-whistleblow er -on-cbs-morning.html

The project is decades behind, and unbelievably behind budget - enough that they're about to break quite a few court ordered deadlines.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/10/08/2615661/remaining-vit-plant -d eadlines.html

Oh, and it's sitting on top of a fairly major & active fault line.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/11/01/2653283/study-richland-nucl ea r-plant-downplaying.html

But you know, nuclear power is great!

Nuclear power is great.

A government weapons lab, founded early in the nuclear age and crucial to fighting the Cold War, and operated with unnecessary levels of secrecy and little-to-no accountability?  That's bad.



I just think it's interesting that we're about to see the effects of widespread waste contamination within the next couple years.  The deadline before Hanford's waste reaches the Columbia in serious measure is very close, and they're failing to stop it.

So, uhhh, my wife and I are trying to move.  We're currently along Columbia backflow.  She wants to move to Vegas.  I just want somewhere close to a race track, so that's fine by me (wonder if WERA would trade me a license in exchange for my OMRRA card?).
 
2013-11-07 04:38:07 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: UberDave: This process isn't used on actual spent rods or anything, but instead on things like used filters, personal protective equipment, and leftover metal and stone from decommissioned plants.


Well, it seems like a good way to drastically reduce the size of fairly harmless rad waste.

 This is kinda old news..

That stuff isn't harmless though. It contains particles of Highly Enriched Uranium, Plutonium, and
other stuff that goes along with the decay of those and the stuff they contact during processing.
Internal contamination with that stuff is pretty much going to give you cancer. It needs to be locked up into
a form that can't get into water or air or into people or animals. It's not just the gloves and beakers and
filters, but the REAL nasty stuff, like the waste in the Hanford tank farms. Concentrated waste of oil,salts,
heavy metals,NASTY chemicals and of course Uranium and Plutonium.  That is the stuff we have to get rid
of. to process that stuff to get the good parts would just make more waste. It's a case of diminishing
returns.Lock it up in glass, and stick it under a mountain in Nevada. That is really the best option IMHO.


The real nasty stuff goes through the vit plant (WTP....some sites have actually called it the WTF).  A filter showing U235 alpha DPM in the single digits is...I'm pretty sure...fairly harmless.  Are there tiny particles of U235 on it?  Yes.  And it should be subject to storage and safe handling but I didn't think such a thing was subject to waste processing in the sense being discussed.  And hell, don't even think that big - how about the material you use to decon your EDs or TLD casings or respirators or similar?  It's my impression such material is what the article is talking about and if they indeed haven't been processing this waste in such a manner, then...cool.  In any case, I admittedly don't know the specifics about the waste treatment process as far as the materials processing goes.
 
2013-11-07 04:38:45 PM  

UberDave: forteblast: I'm sure it doesn't take someone with a PhD in nuclear engineering to tell you that this is very, very old news... but I have one, so let me assure you that it is.


I didn't think things like PPE and filters/swipes/whatever were sent through the vit processing?


No, typically not, though that's not because you couldn't do it, it's because you don't have to. The original point of vitrification was to make high level waste stable enough to sit around for 10,000 years without having to worry about corrosion. That stuff is low-level waste, which you can just seal up in a crate and bury for a few hundred years and it'll decay down to background levels.

Vitrification isn't a new idea, but this is the first I've heard of using it specifically to reduce the volume of the waste as opposed to just increasing the long-term stability. LLW disposal facilities charge you by volume, and they're incredibly expensive, so if vitrification costs less than what you save then that's definitely worth pursuing.
 
2013-11-07 04:44:31 PM  

forteblast: UberDave: forteblast: I'm sure it doesn't take someone with a PhD in nuclear engineering to tell you that this is very, very old news... but I have one, so let me assure you that it is.


I didn't think things like PPE and filters/swipes/whatever were sent through the vit processing?

No, typically not, though that's not because you couldn't do it, it's because you don't have to. The original point of vitrification was to make high level waste stable enough to sit around for 10,000 years without having to worry about corrosion. That stuff is low-level waste, which you can just seal up in a crate and bury for a few hundred years and it'll decay down to background levels.

Vitrification isn't a new idea, but this is the first I've heard of using it specifically to reduce the volume of the waste as opposed to just increasing the long-term stability. LLW disposal facilities charge you by volume, and they're incredibly expensive, so if vitrification costs less than what you save then that's definitely worth pursuing.


That's exactly what I thought.  All my years of biatching at people tossing everything in the farking world into the LLRW can actually had merit.  :)
 
2013-11-07 05:07:54 PM  
reason why we store our spent nuclear rods unprocessed, is that the plutonium and other nastiness is entrained in the fuel pellets, where it can't escape into the environment.

back to Vitrification, my memory tells me that France used vitrification to handle high level nuclear waste for decades.

We have used vitrification to handle contaminated soils from nuclear weapon facility cleanups for years.     It actually would be useful for a lot of hazardous waste disposals too.

Not new, old solution.  It really is very good.
 
2013-11-07 05:14:39 PM  
Turn it into glass... make parking lots out of it?
 
2013-11-07 06:16:45 PM  

DeathLemur: Turn it into glass... make parking lots out of it?


Let's start right here.

static.ddmcdn.com
 
2013-11-07 06:20:07 PM  
 
2013-11-07 06:24:56 PM  

AngryDragon: DeathLemur: Turn it into glass... make parking lots out of it?

Let's start right here.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 273x244]


And move on to here (the red highlighted area):

upload.wikimedia.org

Because wanton destruction over the stuff a few do is awesome ¬¬.
 
2013-11-07 07:24:34 PM  

CygnusDarius: AngryDragon: DeathLemur: Turn it into glass... make parking lots out of it?

Let's start right here.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 273x244]

And move on to here (the red highlighted area):

[upload.wikimedia.org image 572x371]

Because wanton destruction over the stuff a few do is awesome ¬¬.


I can live with that.  Sorry mom.
 
2013-11-07 08:36:13 PM  
This process isn't used on actual spent rods or anything, but instead on things like used filters, personal protective equipment, and leftover metal and stone from decommissioned plants.

Or you can give it to me and I can stuff it in my closet or something, since essentially none of this stuff is even remotely dangerous and it's only "nuclear" waste rather than regular trash by virtue of procedural paranoia.
 
2013-11-07 08:41:08 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Or we could, you know, overturn the stupid law and make reactors that burn the stuff...


Nonsense.  That would mean having enough fuel for like....  forever.. and you know rich people can't make more money without artificial scarcity.
 
2013-11-07 08:41:09 PM  
From the comments section: "Yeah, and send them away to the sun."

How about no? Does no work for you? In a hundred years or so we are going to need that shiat, and having it sitting in old salt mines as platters of easily handled 'glass' is sure going to be a lot more convenient than trying to fish it out of ole sol.
 
2013-11-07 08:54:12 PM  

Stone Meadow: From the comments section: "Yeah, and send them away to the sun."

How about no? Does no work for you? In a hundred years or so we are going to need that shiat, and having it sitting in old salt mines as platters of easily handled 'glass' is sure going to be a lot more convenient than trying to fish it out of ole sol.


No kidding.  The farthest away it should go is the moon.

/ever read The Girl in Del Rey Crater?
//awesome story
///Gil the ARM FTW
 
2013-11-07 08:56:16 PM  
If anyone offers you a paperweight from the Hanford gift shop, politely decline.
 
2013-11-07 09:27:14 PM  

FormlessOne: If anyone offers you a paperweight from the Hanford gift shop, politely decline.


Order within the next ten minutes and get a free Geiger counter AND a Godzilla super-mecha action figure made from authentic depleted uranium from Fukushima!  Call now!
 
2013-11-07 09:36:32 PM  

FrancoFile: /ever read The Girl in Del Rey Crater?
//awesome story
///Gil the ARM FTW


Not yet...but I'll add it to my list, as I generally like Niven's work. Thanks!
 
2013-11-07 09:47:07 PM  

Stone Meadow: FrancoFile: /ever read The Girl in Del Rey Crater?
//awesome story
///Gil the ARM FTW

Not yet...but I'll add it to my list, as I generally like Niven's work. Thanks!


It's in one or more of his collections of short stories.
 
2013-11-07 09:53:23 PM  
Put it on the Moon.

catacombs.space1999.net

It worked well in that universe.
 
2013-11-07 10:27:07 PM  
Until some unknowing fools in 3527 decide to make some crystal goblets from this huge ancient glass deposit that they will discover.
 
2013-11-08 06:44:42 AM  
It's been done before:

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-11-08 08:11:42 AM  
The same is true of dealing with "civil unrest".
 
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