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(Business Insider)   I apologize for all those times I said nobody was making money off Android. I was wrong   (businessinsider.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Android, royalties  
•       •       •

2941 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Nov 2013 at 8:05 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-07 08:48:02 AM  
So... 2.5 million in losses without the 2 million in Android money. With the android money, profitable?

Did I miss where they mentioned another 500k+?
 
2013-11-07 09:08:43 AM  

montreal_medic: So... 2.5 million in losses without the 2 million in Android money. With the android money, profitable?

Did I miss where they mentioned another 500k+?


Billion.
 
2013-11-07 09:31:25 AM  

KarmicDisaster: montreal_medic: So... 2.5 million in losses without the 2 million in Android money. With the android money, profitable?

Did I miss where they mentioned another 500k+?

Billion.


What are a few zeroes between friends?...
 
2013-11-07 09:40:05 AM  

montreal_medic: So... 2.5 million in losses without the 2 million in Android money. With the android money, profitable?

Did I miss where they mentioned another 500k+?


Not really what the article says.

If you look at the Android part of the group alone they have $2billion in revenue and are ~ 95% profitable.  If you take that out of the group they are losing about $2.5 billion.  Meaning they are still losing ~$.6 billion even with the Android groups profits.  The point being that the shiat show of the rest of the group is "hidden" by the easy money of patent revenue/profit.  And that has some investors fooled.
 
2013-11-07 10:13:04 AM  
It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!
 
2013-11-07 10:17:34 AM  
There was a thread a couple days ago regarding MS still being a profitable company even with shiatty Desktop OS everyone hated.

This is how they make sure they still get their dime from you.

I believe Apple has to pay them a tithe as well for the ability to use your iPhone to pull your exchange-based corporate email.
 
2013-11-07 10:34:07 AM  
In other news, a single analyst published on one of the nastiest financial rags around claims that Microsoft should follow his instructions, because, well, bootstrappy.

corq: There was a thread a couple days ago regarding MS still being a profitable company even with shiatty Desktop OS everyone hated.

This is how they make sure they still get their dime from you.

I believe Apple has to pay them a tithe as well for the ability to use your iPhone to pull your exchange-based corporate email.


Yeah. Innovation sucks, am I right? It amazes me how folks whine that Microsoft doesn't innovate, and then have the temerity to be surprised when just about every other tech company on the planet is paying Microsoft to use their intellectual property, because Microsoft did it first.
 
2013-11-07 10:35:29 AM  

imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!


This, obviously. Coupled with some douchebag analyst looking for a bit of publicity at Microsoft's expense, it's instagreen.

/Supergreen!
 
2013-11-07 10:49:26 AM  

FormlessOne: Yeah. Innovation sucks, am I right? It amazes me how folks whine that Microsoft doesn't innovate, and then have the temerity to be surprised when just about every other tech company on the planet is paying Microsoft to use their intellectual property, because Microsoft did it first.


No, Microsoft did not do email sync  first. You just have to pay a dhimmi to access Exchange, and everybody uses that festering pile of crap.

/ Former Exchange admin.
// If I never have to touch that steaming turd again, it will be too soon.
 
2013-11-07 11:01:38 AM  

imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!


Wait, so you're saying that when a company spends a few years developing a major new product that they spend a lot of money doing it?
 
2013-11-07 11:10:00 AM  

imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!


This was essentially my thoughts too. I was under the impression that Xbox was one of MS's only profitable products these days.
 
2013-11-07 11:53:56 AM  

Bullseyed: imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!

This was essentially my thoughts too. I was under the impression that Xbox was one of MS's only profitable products these days.


They still make a ton of money on Office and their server stuff.
 
2013-11-07 12:24:44 PM  
I had assumed that by not the XBox unit was profitable. They're still losing money? Jeebus, XBox is such a popular platform. I guess they really do need me to buy an XBox Live membership just so I can stream Netflix through them.
 
2013-11-07 12:32:45 PM  

Bullseyed: imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!

This was essentially my thoughts too. I was under the impression that Xbox was one of MS's only profitable products these days.


It's going to tank this launch. The consumer sentiment about it is tepid at best. The PS4 is much more attractive. The Xbone's more powerful platform is overshadowed by all the big brother crap that they've tied into it, and people see the abuses that are going to come from it. Sony's PS4 comes at a lower price point and without a built in home-invasion cam; combine that with MS's bungled E3 announcements and it's going to absolutely trounce MS.

Notice how you're not really seeing ads for the PS4, just a quick PS4 logo after video games? MS basically handled all of Sony's advertising pro bono. Sony just had to wait until every MS announcement and then say, "Yeah, we're not going to do that. Our machine just lets you play video games with your friends." Exclusives are basically MS's only saving grace, and even that crop looks awful thin.

/Short on MS for the retail season
//If you couldn't tell
 
2013-11-07 01:37:10 PM  
This is why all those other companies are suing each other over patents. Can you imagine getting $5 every time your competitor sells a phone or tablet? Brilliant. Microsoft's legal department is their biggest profit center.
 
2013-11-07 04:37:39 PM  

Fark France: /Short on MS for the retail season
//If you couldn't tell


Hope you didn't do that recently, since MSFT is up 11% in the last two weeks. Even if you think the XBone will flop, this is stupid because Xbox makes up a tiny percentage of the stock price and because both companies will sell out of their short early supplies until early 2014 at least. We won't really know the relative successes of the consoles for several months.
 
2013-11-07 05:11:46 PM  

oren0: Fark France: /Short on MS for the retail season
//If you couldn't tell

Hope you didn't do that recently, since MSFT is up 11% in the last two weeks. Even if you think the XBone will flop, this is stupid because Xbox makes up a tiny percentage of the stock price and because both companies will sell out of their short early supplies until early 2014 at least. We won't really know the relative successes of the consoles for several months.


I'm banking on the consumer sentiment being far stronger than anyone else has projected. It should be immediately apparent. I'm not very tied into it. I'm going to short sometime around a week or so after the consoles both release. I'm also not expecting them to stay down. I think it'll be a setback that compounds several issues and gives them a bad quarter or two.
 
2013-11-07 05:59:36 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: If you look at the Android part of the group alone they have $2billion in revenue and are ~ 95% profitable.


it's also about 95% out of Microsoft's control whether they'll keep getting that revenue.

Say that Google develops non-infringing implementations of each feature in Android that's covered by these patent licensing agreements.  What's Microsoft going to do, ask to keep getting paid anyway?

Allowing a major competitor to make the decisions that impact your bottom line is an awful business strategy -- butthat's been the Ballmer Doctrine in a nutshell.
 
2013-11-07 06:18:37 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Say that Google develops non-infringing implementations of each feature in Android that's covered by these patent licensing agreements.  What's Microsoft going to do, ask to keep getting paid anyway?


These agreements aren't about specific patents or features.  They're just Microsoft going around saying "nice phone you have there.  Shame if any features in Android ever turned out to infringe on any of our many, many patents."  Protection racket, plain and simple.
 
2013-11-07 06:33:19 PM  

imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!


They're likely to burn through money on the Windows Phone things as well. Aside from purchasing Nokia, the Lumia 520 is obviously subsidized by Microsoft for example.

That could have been a story, but that wasn't mentioned in the article.

Oh hey, want a smartphone, get a Lumia 520/521 for 100USD, Microsoft pays the rest. :P
 
2013-11-07 07:21:54 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: The point being that the shiat show of the rest of the group is "hidden" by the easy money of patent revenue/profit. And that has some investors fooled.


They fooled this investor into making a quick 35% on msft between march and late october this year. I sold half and now I'll just see what happens with the rest.
 
2013-11-07 07:25:22 PM  

Fark France: /Short on MS for the retail season


have a good time with that - you might win, you might lose, but if they announce a new ceo in that time and the market likes it let me just say I hope you have some options to limit the loss. there's lots easier shorts out there dude.
 
2013-11-08 02:37:45 AM  
FTFA: "Sherlund says that if you back out the Android profits, Microsoft is probably losing $2.5 billion on Skype, Xbox, and Windows Phone."

Okay, analyst making guesses.  Oh ... Business Insider.  Right.
 
2013-11-08 04:51:41 AM  
imagine what Google/Samsung is making
 
2013-11-08 09:27:59 AM  
It somewhat reminds me of when Motorola was using the fat profits from the Razr phones (remember those?) to hide the fact that essentially nothing else the company did was making any money. When those profits dried up, hilarity ensued.

Patents expire. And when they expire, the royalties go away. When that happens, the employees of that division will be in for some fun times.
 
2013-11-08 11:41:27 AM  

JohnBigBootay: Fark France: /Short on MS for the retail season

have a good time with that - you might win, you might lose, but if they announce a new ceo in that time and the market likes it let me just say I hope you have some options to limit the loss. there's lots easier shorts out there dude.


Not sure if I'll hedge it in any way yet. It's pretty cut and dry to me. And I'm aware that it's not a very attractive idea to everyone. It's just a short-term grab. Playing the consoles against each other is going to be a major thing this season for retail (And tech. Got in on AMD right before it was announced they'd be making the chips for the PS4.). Admittedly, it's my first foray into shorts, but I'll see what happens. At any rate, it's a learning experience. I'm only 22. It's not like I cashed out my 401k to trade away my retirement.
 
2013-11-08 11:51:34 AM  

FormlessOne: imashark: It occurs to me that, considering until Xbox releases, the majority of the money there is probably being spent on R&D and initial production costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's Playstation unit is burning through the same kind of cash.

/Non-story
//Perfect for fark!

This, obviously. Coupled with some douchebag analyst looking for a bit of publicity at Microsoft's expense, it's instagreen.

/Supergreen!


A picture of the BusinessInsider analyst:

wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
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