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(Daily Mail)   ♫ The prayers on the bus will get you fired. Get you fired. Get you fired. ♫   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Infraction, supreme court ruling, WCCO, prayers, Supreme Court, preachers, Durham School Services, 1st amendment  
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3993 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2013 at 8:11 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-07 09:30:36 AM  

threedingers: OnlyM3: Wait... the complaints were from the family of muslim students? Isn't their post 9/11 talking point that Christians, Jews and muzzies are all "People of the book"? So we can finally shut down yet another "Religion of Peace" lie? Cool.


// No sympathy bus driver dude. You were told you were breaking the rules, you were given several chances to knock it off.

I know, it's so unreasonable for a Muslim parent to now want their Muslim child to be preached at by a Christian when they're sending their kid to a secular school.


I see your sarcasm, but Christianity is not the only religion practiced in this country. Muslim parents would have every right to be upset. Same goes for Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Mormons, etc.

Being the majority religion does not excuse this kind of nonsense. American Christians seem to think that this majority somehow entitles them to foist their beliefs on others.

What really gets me, though, is how often they play the persecution card when they're rebuffed.
 
2013-11-07 09:32:24 AM  

MycroftHolmes: DubtodaIll: Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate. However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize. Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends. That's freedom.

1. Separation of Church and state.  The bus was effectively an extension of the school
2. Interfered with his ability to do his job (see above)
3. Your rights end where mine begin.  Your right to freedom of religion ends when it involves using your position to pressure children into adopting practices of a religion.
4. Insubordination-which you concede and should have been the end of the argument.

This is a clean fire from so many angles that it is ridiculous.  Freedoms have to be balanced against individuals.  Your freedom of religion cannot infringe on mine.


So very much this.
 
2013-11-07 09:33:05 AM  

MycroftHolmes: DubtodaIll: Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate. However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize. Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends. That's freedom.

1. Separation of Church and state.  The bus was effectively an extension of the school
2. Interfered with his ability to do his job (see above)
3. Your rights end where mine begin.  Your right to freedom of religion ends when it involves using your position to pressure children into adopting practices of a religion.
4. Insubordination-which you concede and should have been the end of the argument.

This is a clean fire from so many angles that it is ridiculous.  Freedoms have to be balanced against individuals.  Your freedom of religion cannot infringe on mine.


all of this, but especially the highlighted, which is the main reason he was fired...the insubordination came as a result of ignoring this rule and the administration's warnings against his violations

and come on christians...stating over and over again that we are a "christian nation" does not make it true! we are NOT a christian nation. truth = we have had christianity as a majority. but we are not a "christian" nation. saudi arabia is a muslim nation. we are a MUCH different country than they are. if we were a "christian" nation, we would be a lot more like saudi arabia, with a different diety.
 
2013-11-07 09:33:25 AM  

bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: Madaynun: They said, "Don't hand me no lines and keep your Prayers to yourself"

A++

Would LOL again

/from Georgia
//not a country fan, though
///but that was goddamn funny

song was from a band that was played primarily on rock stations. southern rock is similar to but not exactly country. yes, i do understand how it's easy to confuse the 2...some country is essentially southern rock and vice versa...

but my point is, if you listened to rock (especially those specializing in classic and/or southern rock) stations in the time that song was popular, you would've heard it, just like you would've heard skynyrd

Full disclaimer: I grew up in Marietta (county seat of Cobb Co)and to my ears, country and southern rock are two sides of the same coin. As you might imagine, I heard plenty of both growing up.

Not hating or judging, but that's just how it sounds to me.

Also, that song is in my head now, thanks lol

can't say i disagree
also, i've been to marietta. actually got my first tattoo there. and there is (was?) an eastern european restaurant (can't remember the specific nationality) downtown that was good
this was in 2003 i believe. i was there for a couple weeks of training at the reserve airbase


Right on. Can you remember the name of the restaurant?

The only one I can think of is out towards Roswell called 'Latka'.
 
2013-11-07 09:33:43 AM  
FTFA: 'I'm a preacher and that's what I do'

That fine, except you were hired as a bus driver not a preacher, and what you are supposed to do for that job is drive the farking bus.
I wouldn't have a problem with you saying a quiet prayer to yourself before driving the bus, but the solicitation is the issue.  If you were preaching on the front lawn of your own property, kids would have the option to walk past you.  On a school bus they are an unwilling captive audience.  If you can't attract a congregation to preach to without trapping them on a bus, maybe you should re-evaluate your effectiveness as a preacher.
 
2013-11-07 09:38:21 AM  

MycroftHolmes: DubtodaIll: Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate. However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize. Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends. That's freedom.

1. Separation of Church and state.  The bus was effectively an extension of the school
2. Interfered with his ability to do his job (see above)
3. Your rights end where mine begin.  Your right to freedom of religion ends when it involves using your position to pressure children into adopting practices of a religion.
4. Insubordination-which you concede and should have been the end of the argument.

This is a clean fire from so many angles that it is ridiculous.  Freedoms have to be balanced against individuals.  Your freedom of religion cannot infringe on mine.


Well, why not?  Rights overlap often in as diverse society as America. I'm all for open debate and conversation but affecting someone's livelihood is where I've got the issue.  It's a much smaller burden to tell your children to ignore the bus driver than it will be for this guy to find a job.  Teach your children to be strong in what they believe and to espouse those beliefs.  It would be a much more interesting story if it were for a kid talking down the bus driver, or well, for anyone to actually talk down someone who is espousing their faith.  That's something I've never seen anyone do in person.  Though I suppose the only way to stop it is to write laws and pass paper in order to end the behavior.
 
2013-11-07 09:38:30 AM  

pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: Madaynun: They said, "Don't hand me no lines and keep your Prayers to yourself"

A++

Would LOL again

/from Georgia
//not a country fan, though
///but that was goddamn funny

song was from a band that was played primarily on rock stations. southern rock is similar to but not exactly country. yes, i do understand how it's easy to confuse the 2...some country is essentially southern rock and vice versa...

but my point is, if you listened to rock (especially those specializing in classic and/or southern rock) stations in the time that song was popular, you would've heard it, just like you would've heard skynyrd

Full disclaimer: I grew up in Marietta (county seat of Cobb Co)and to my ears, country and southern rock are two sides of the same coin. As you might imagine, I heard plenty of both growing up.

Not hating or judging, but that's just how it sounds to me.

Also, that song is in my head now, thanks lol

can't say i disagree
also, i've been to marietta. actually got my first tattoo there. and there is (was?) an eastern european restaurant (can't remember the specific nationality) downtown that was good
this was in 2003 i believe. i was there for a couple weeks of training at the reserve airbase

Right on. Can you remember the name of the restaurant?

The only one I can think of is out towards Roswell called 'Latka'.


sorry, no all i can remember is it was some sort of eastern european cuisine, and it was in the historic downtown area. and it was tasty & not expensive. czech? polish? something like one of those nationalities.
 
2013-11-07 09:40:54 AM  

DubtodaIll: MycroftHolmes: DubtodaIll: Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate. However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize. Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends. That's freedom.

1. Separation of Church and state.  The bus was effectively an extension of the school
2. Interfered with his ability to do his job (see above)
3. Your rights end where mine begin.  Your right to freedom of religion ends when it involves using your position to pressure children into adopting practices of a religion.
4. Insubordination-which you concede and should have been the end of the argument.

This is a clean fire from so many angles that it is ridiculous.  Freedoms have to be balanced against individuals.  Your freedom of religion cannot infringe on mine.

Well, why not?  Rights overlap often in as diverse society as America. I'm all for open debate and conversation but affecting someone's livelihood is where I've got the issue.  It's a much smaller burden to tell your children to ignore the bus driver than it will be for this guy to find a job.  Teach your children to be strong in what they believe and to espouse those beliefs.  It would be a much more interesting story if it were for a kid talking down the bus driver, or well, for anyone to actually talk down someone who is espousing their faith.  That's something I've never seen anyone do in person.  Though I suppose the only way to stop it is to write laws and pass paper in order to end the behavior.


If his livlihood was a concern, it would have been much easier to for him to heed one of the multiple warnings he was given.

Rights do overlap, but must be balanced against each other.  If this guy was street corner preaching, I would have no issue.  But that was not the case, and it is disingenuous of you not to acknowledge that his position and the context changes his 'rights'.

I have a freedom of speech.  But if I call all my customers 'dumbass', that right does not protect my job, in the slightest.
 
2013-11-07 09:43:51 AM  

bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: Madaynun: They said, "Don't hand me no lines and keep your Prayers to yourself"

A++

Would LOL again

/from Georgia
//not a country fan, though
///but that was goddamn funny

song was from a band that was played primarily on rock stations. southern rock is similar to but not exactly country. yes, i do understand how it's easy to confuse the 2...some country is essentially southern rock and vice versa...

but my point is, if you listened to rock (especially those specializing in classic and/or southern rock) stations in the time that song was popular, you would've heard it, just like you would've heard skynyrd

Full disclaimer: I grew up in Marietta (county seat of Cobb Co)and to my ears, country and southern rock are two sides of the same coin. As you might imagine, I heard plenty of both growing up.

Not hating or judging, but that's just how it sounds to me.

Also, that song is in my head now, thanks lol

can't say i disagree
also, i've been to marietta. actually got my first tattoo there. and there is (was?) an eastern european restaurant (can't remember the specific nationality) downtown that was good
this was in 2003 i believe. i was there for a couple weeks of training at the reserve airbase

Right on. Can you remember the name of the restaurant?

The only one I can think of is out towards Roswell called 'Latka'.

sorry, no all i can remember is it was some sort of eastern european cuisine, and it was in the historic downtown area. and it was tasty & not expensive. czech? polish? something like one of those nationalities.


There is a Turkish place in the Square. Back then, it might have been Greek, but I can't be sure. There are a lot of Mediterranean-run restaurants in Marietta (most of which are delicious).

The Marietta Diner earned some fame and business after being Guy Fieri's show. Incidentally, that might have been about the time they started actually seasoning their food.

Until then, I never believed it possible to have a diner serve a burger with less flavor than a fast-food burger.
 
2013-11-07 09:45:16 AM  
*being featured on
 
2013-11-07 09:50:37 AM  
You know, even if I were religious, I still wouldn't want other random religious people leading my kids in prayer.

What if I and my kids were Lutheran, the bus driver was Catholic, and the driver started leading a prayer to Mary?

We'd both be "Christian", but as Lutheran, I'd throw a shiat fit over such a prayer.

Keep your religion out of other people's business.

// not Lutheran, but probably know more about religion than most "religious" people
 
2013-11-07 09:51:54 AM  
Good.  Dude needs to be fired.  He was warned multiple times, he bussed students of other faiths -- and presumably some of no faith -- and he kept on proselytizing.  Just because they come to you in a confined space doesn't make them your congregation.  The driver's seat is not a pulpit.  Save it for Sunday.

/You don't live in a Christian nation.  Never has it been so, neither will it ever be.  Establishment clause, biatch.
 
2013-11-07 09:52:26 AM  

pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: Madaynun: They said, "Don't hand me no lines and keep your Prayers to yourself"

A++

Would LOL again

/from Georgia
//not a country fan, though
///but that was goddamn funny

song was from a band that was played primarily on rock stations. southern rock is similar to but not exactly country. yes, i do understand how it's easy to confuse the 2...some country is essentially southern rock and vice versa...

but my point is, if you listened to rock (especially those specializing in classic and/or southern rock) stations in the time that song was popular, you would've heard it, just like you would've heard skynyrd

Full disclaimer: I grew up in Marietta (county seat of Cobb Co)and to my ears, country and southern rock are two sides of the same coin. As you might imagine, I heard plenty of both growing up.

Not hating or judging, but that's just how it sounds to me.

Also, that song is in my head now, thanks lol

can't say i disagree
also, i've been to marietta. actually got my first tattoo there. and there is (was?) an eastern european restaurant (can't remember the specific nationality) downtown that was good
this was in 2003 i believe. i was there for a couple weeks of training at the reserve airbase

Right on. Can you remember the name of the restaurant?

The only one I can think of is out towards Roswell called 'Latka'.

sorry, no all i can remember is it was some sort of eastern european cuisine, and it was in the historic downtown area. and it was tasty & not expensive. czech? polish? something like one of those nationalities.

There is a Turkish place in the Square. Back then, it might have been Greek, but I can't be sure. There are a lot of Mediterranean-run restaurants in Marietta (most of which are delicious).

The Marietta Diner earned some fame and business after being Guy Fieri's show. Incidentally, that might have been about the time they started actually seasoning their food.

Until then, I never be ...


i know it wasn't turkish or greek...although i love those...actually ate at a turkish place in riyadh, saudi arabia. that was very yummy, but sort of like eating authentic ________ (insert overseas ethnicity cuisine) in the ozarks. just kind of weird.

i ate at the marietta diner. everyone who had ever been to marietta told us we had to eat there. it was good, i had swordfish, but it wasn't "great"
 
2013-11-07 09:52:31 AM  
Must be part of god's master plan.
 
2013-11-07 09:54:58 AM  
Let's not fault the bus driver, he's probably been misled by SCJ Scalia.
 
2013-11-07 09:55:40 AM  

bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: bungle_jr: pxlboy: Madaynun: They said, "Don't hand me no lines and keep your Prayers to yourself"

A++

Would LOL again

/from Georgia
//not a country fan, though
///but that was goddamn funny

song was from a band that was played primarily on rock stations. southern rock is similar to but not exactly country. yes, i do understand how it's easy to confuse the 2...some country is essentially southern rock and vice versa...

but my point is, if you listened to rock (especially those specializing in classic and/or southern rock) stations in the time that song was popular, you would've heard it, just like you would've heard skynyrd

Full disclaimer: I grew up in Marietta (county seat of Cobb Co)and to my ears, country and southern rock are two sides of the same coin. As you might imagine, I heard plenty of both growing up.

Not hating or judging, but that's just how it sounds to me.

Also, that song is in my head now, thanks lol

can't say i disagree
also, i've been to marietta. actually got my first tattoo there. and there is (was?) an eastern european restaurant (can't remember the specific nationality) downtown that was good
this was in 2003 i believe. i was there for a couple weeks of training at the reserve airbase

Right on. Can you remember the name of the restaurant?

The only one I can think of is out towards Roswell called 'Latka'.

sorry, no all i can remember is it was some sort of eastern european cuisine, and it was in the historic downtown area. and it was tasty & not expensive. czech? polish? something like one of those nationalities.

There is a Turkish place in the Square. Back then, it might have been Greek, but I can't be sure. There are a lot of Mediterranean-run restaurants in Marietta (most of which are delicious).

The Marietta Diner earned some fame and business after being Guy Fieri's show. Incidentally, that might have been about the time they started actually seasoning their food.

Until then, I ...


Heh, well it's better now. Like I said, they're actually seasoning their food now.
 
2013-11-07 09:56:52 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: I have to tell you, brother, a bus full of kids from various religions is not the place to push your Christianity. We have places for that already.


How many religions besides Christianity did the news article say were on the bus again?
 
2013-11-07 09:58:10 AM  

pxlboy: threedingers: OnlyM3: Wait... the complaints were from the family of muslim students? Isn't their post 9/11 talking point that Christians, Jews and muzzies are all "People of the book"? So we can finally shut down yet another "Religion of Peace" lie? Cool.


// No sympathy bus driver dude. You were told you were breaking the rules, you were given several chances to knock it off.

I know, it's so unreasonable for a Muslim parent to now want their Muslim child to be preached at by a Christian when they're sending their kid to a secular school.

I see your sarcasm, but Christianity is not the only religion practiced in this country. Muslim parents would have every right to be upset. Same goes for Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Mormons, etc.

Being the majority religion does not excuse this kind of nonsense. American Christians seem to think that this majority somehow entitles them to foist their beliefs on others.

What really gets me, though, is how often they play the persecution card when they're rebuffed.


I couldn't agree more.

I actually send my kids to a Catholic school so religion is an expected component of their education, but if I were sending them to public school I would expect religion to be left out completely. I don't want other adults attempting to influence my kids' religious views unless I know exactly what the message is.
 
2013-11-07 09:59:57 AM  
cwolf20

How many religions besides Christianity did the news article say were on the bus again?

Greater than zero.
 
2013-11-07 10:04:27 AM  

OnlyM3: Farking Canuck

He was fired for multiple reasons:

- complaints from the end customers (parents did not want him preaching to their children)
- complaints from the school (they did not want a person representing them preaching religion - violation of church and state)
- refusing to comply with explicit instructions from management

They gave him plenty of warning and were exceptionally patient with him. They had an employee who disobeys orders and alienates their customers. It was a simple business decision - he deserved to be fired.Agreed. I just have to wonder if FARK would be so unified in this belief if the reports were complaints about him telling the kids to vote obama.


A new Godwin.  Obama replaces Hitler.  Film at 11.
 
2013-11-07 10:15:37 AM  

Mega Steve: [img.fark.net image 634x417]

Dude needs to ease up on the Soul Glo


That was so random and awesome!  I was not expecting that between the other comments.
 
2013-11-07 10:15:41 AM  
cwolf20

I have to correct myself. The Mail article doesn't say any particular student on the bus in question was of any specific religion at all.
 
2013-11-07 10:16:53 AM  

cwolf20: How many religions besides Christianity did the news article say were on the bus again?


Why does the rest of the sanity have to mollycoddle these sky-faerie delusional nitwits again?
 
2013-11-07 10:21:59 AM  

DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I can see if the guy was being insubordinate. But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion? If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver. I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong. Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the 3 reasons I listed for his firing ... please answer this:

How about you explain to me why a company should not be allowed to fire an employee who is pissing off their customers and refusing to stop after they've asked him twice, in writing, to stop??

Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate.  However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize.  Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends.  That's freedom.


If one of those tenants is to ritually slaughter your food, then they should be able to own goats and sheep at school and slaughter them in the cafeteria in front of the kids then, right?
 
2013-11-07 10:29:55 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: cwolf20: How many religions besides Christianity did the news article say were on the bus again?

Why does the rest of the sanity have to mollycoddle these sky-faerie delusional nitwits again?


You don't have to mollycoddle to anyone I suppose.  However, it is worth noting that Christianity has been the backbone of Western Civilization for the past millennium and the vast majority of great people have been strongly influenced by Christianity and its teachings.  Also, no other system has proven as successful at keeping the masses happy, internally peaceful, and incredibly productive as Christianity has demonstrated.  Though, recently, individual sensibilities have become more important than stringent society and there's nothing wrong with that as long as we continue to progress at equal measure to that of the pace under Christian dominance.   I will say that ever since Evangelism became the most vocal and united branch of Christianity that it has turned more people off than on about it.
 
2013-11-07 10:31:44 AM  

lohphat: DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I can see if the guy was being insubordinate. But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion? If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver. I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong. Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the 3 reasons I listed for his firing ... please answer this:

How about you explain to me why a company should not be allowed to fire an employee who is pissing off their customers and refusing to stop after they've asked him twice, in writing, to stop??

Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate.  However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize.  Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends.  That's freedom.

If one of those tenants is to ritually slaughter your food, then they should be able to own goats and sheep at school and slaughter them in the cafeteria in front of the kids then, right?


A great writer once wrote "A civilization begins the day the walls go up around the slaughterhouse."  So no, that's not a good point you're making at all.
 
2013-11-07 10:40:09 AM  
Take it to church, jesus boy.
 
2013-11-07 10:49:27 AM  

markfara: "Then I will pray and ask them if they want to join me in prayer. Just give them something constructive and positive to go to school with."

And you are the sole arbiter of what is positive and what is not, am I right?

Religious people are such f*cking narcissists.


+1 THIS
 
2013-11-07 10:52:43 AM  

DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I can see if the guy was being insubordinate. But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion? If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver. I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong. Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the 3 reasons I listed for his firing ... please answer this:

How about you explain to me why a company should not be allowed to fire an employee who is pissing off their customers and refusing to stop after they've asked him twice, in writing, to stop??

Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate.  However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize.  Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends.  That's freedom.


The right to free speech and religious practice does not guarantee an entitlement to any particular job, nor does it protect you from the consequences of your actions.
 
2013-11-07 11:07:37 AM  

Combustion: Take it to church, jesus boy.


Are they doing math on the church bus?
 
Ant
2013-11-07 11:08:52 AM  

KrispyKritter: positions of power? a bus driver?


Adults hired by the school district are all in positions of power, from the superintendent down to the custodian who empties the trash cans. They can all get a kid in trouble with the school. That's the way it was when I was a kid in the 70s, at least.
 
2013-11-07 11:09:10 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: Only newsworthy if you believe in magical sky faeries and believe it's perfectly acceptable for delusional adults in positions of power to foist their mental aberrations on kids...

The rest of us would consider it perfectly natural for said psychological defect to be removed from said position...


Wow, you are trying really hard.

I award you a gold star.

rlv.zcache.ca
 
2013-11-07 11:12:48 AM  
Good. You're already a preacher, now you need to learn how to keep your jobs separate from one another.
 
2013-11-07 11:13:25 AM  

markfara: Religious people are such f*cking narcissists.


And THIS.
 
2013-11-07 11:16:04 AM  

lohphat: DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I can see if the guy was being insubordinate. But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion? If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver. I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong. Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the 3 reasons I listed for his firing ... please answer this:

How about you explain to me why a company should not be allowed to fire an employee who is pissing off their customers and refusing to stop after they've asked him twice, in writing, to stop??

Again, I agree if he's being insubordinate.  However, one of the tenants of Christianity is to proselytize.  Forcing someone to selectively ignore tenants of their religion that they choose to practice should be protected under the First Amendment regardless of who it offends.  That's freedom.

If one of those tenants is to ritually slaughter your food, then they should be able to own goats and sheep at school and slaughter them in the cafeteria in front of the kids then, right?


Not in the school cafeteria, no, but ritual animal slaughter is still protected speech. You just have to remember those time and place restrictions that apply to the rest of the First Amendment. See
Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah. You can still sacrifice a chicken to appease your gods, but only in the privacy of your home or church building.

Obviously there are limits to the "but it's a tenant of my religion!" defense. Human sacrifice,polygamy, and all the perks from the old religions are all categorically illegal in the US. SeeReynolds v. United States. The difference between this case, which dealt with Mormons and polygamy, and the animal sacrifice one comes down to the centrality of animal sacrifice to Santeria. If you outlaw the ritual, you gut the religion. The Supreme Court didn't think polygamy was crucial to the practice of Mormonism, so they refused to make a religious exception.

In the case of our bus driver and Dubtodalll's assertion, you can practice Christianity without proselytizing to a captive audience on a school bus, so the First Amendment doesn't have his back.
 
2013-11-07 11:16:30 AM  

EggSniper: He did it in Georgia and Wisconsin without issue (so far as he's said), now in Minnesota he was warned and then fired for it.  And now he's talking to the press about it.

This isn't someone to feel sorry for for getting fired.  This is someone taking a stand on an issue that they believe in.  Some will agree with him and some won't, but it's definitely disingenuous to call him a victim.  It's his fight, he chose to fight it, he'll live with the consequences, fine.

The laws about this stuff always favor one extreme or the other of a very grey issue.  Is there any harm in the bus driver leading prayer amongst children who may not all believe as he does?  Probably not.  Is there any great loss to the children not having a bus driver leading prayer?  Probably not.  School districts can't rely on every single parent being rational and responsible and secure in their own influence over their child, and under threat of expensive legal proceedings they go with the side of the argument that best protects them from being lawyered at.

These policies are less about any particular belief or philosophy and more about protection from people who are at the same time pitifully insecure and grotesquely self-important.  If this guy ends up suing I'd say he's one of those people.


Leading children in a prayer asking an invisible sky man to listen to them does WHAT about neglectful parents again?

You keep trying to defend the indefensible. What about the first amendment rights of those children?
 
2013-11-07 11:23:17 AM  

DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I don't get how prayer isn't a First Amendment Right.   On the one side, you're free to practice your religion.  On the other side, it's just some guy talking out loud to essentially nothing.  How does that hurt anything?  It's not just to force the guy to be fired.  Going out of your way in order to ruin the current circumstances of a bus driver because he talked out loud to a group of children is not an equal action to a bus driver talking out loud to a group of children.

He was warned on multiple occasions, in writing, to stop what he was doing. His route was changed explicitly because of customer complaints.

He was fired for multiple reasons:

- complaints from the end customers (parents did not want him preaching to their children)
- complaints from the school (they did not want a person representing them preaching religion - violation of church and state)
- refusing to comply with explicit instructions from management

They gave him plenty of warning and were exceptionally patient with him. They had an employee who disobeys orders and alienates their customers. It was a simple business decision -  he deserved to be fired.

I can see if the guy was being insubordinate.  But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion?  If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver.  I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong.  Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.


But that didn't stop you from coming out swinging butthurt cranked up to eleventy. Practice what you preach. Also this isn't a just case of unpopular speech it is a case of an indisputable violation of the law. But putting that aside completely he was warned, officially reprimanded and reassigned due to complaints yet still persisted in violating established policy. Can you name a single industry or entity where an employer is going to tolerate that kind of willful disobedience?

Let me let you in on a little secret. If his religion hadn't been involved he would have been dismissed a lot sooner but he thought he could hide behind baby Jesus if he was ever called out about it. Which is exactly what he is doing now. The school board not wanting the bad press put up with his crap for as long as they legally could but at this point he is so far over the line that they can no longer ignore it without facing potential legal repercussions. If he was just telling inappropriate jokes or kept going on about all the drugs he did he would have been canned in a second. The only reason he wasn't was the school didn't want to hear criticism from hypocritical reactionary jags up in arms because libs want to murder christmas and turn our kids into gay, communist liebruuls eating aborted fetuses garnished with bath salts. So spare us the pearl clutching act already granny.
 
2013-11-07 11:35:49 AM  

ScaryBottles: DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I don't get how prayer isn't a First Amendment Right.   On the one side, you're free to practice your religion.  On the other side, it's just some guy talking out loud to essentially nothing.  How does that hurt anything?  It's not just to force the guy to be fired.  Going out of your way in order to ruin the current circumstances of a bus driver because he talked out loud to a group of children is not an equal action to a bus driver talking out loud to a group of children.

He was warned on multiple occasions, in writing, to stop what he was doing. His route was changed explicitly because of customer complaints.

He was fired for multiple reasons:

- complaints from the end customers (parents did not want him preaching to their children)
- complaints from the school (they did not want a person representing them preaching religion - violation of church and state)
- refusing to comply with explicit instructions from management

They gave him plenty of warning and were exceptionally patient with him. They had an employee who disobeys orders and alienates their customers. It was a simple business decision -  he deserved to be fired.

I can see if the guy was being insubordinate.  But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion?  If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver.  I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong.  Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

But that didn't stop you from coming out swinging butthurt cranked up to eleventy. Practice what you preach. Also this isn't a just case of unpopular speech it is a case of an indisputable violation of the law. But putting that aside completely he was warned, officially reprimanded and reassigned due to complaints yet still persisted in violatin ...


Hmmm, it's almost as if the content and intent of one's actions has something to do with the way one is treated.  I'm not butthurt and I'm not sure how I'm coming across like that.  I suppose any support of religion just sounds like butthurt to you because the majority of people who vocally support religion are just complete dumbasses in your opinion.  I just think prayer is not a bad thing.  Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.  Making me out to be a fool just because I don't stand as strongly in favor of anti-religious sentiment as you do is pretty silly.
 
2013-11-07 11:41:46 AM  
I'm glad the stupid ass got fired for that.
 
2013-11-07 11:45:42 AM  

cwolf20: How many religions besides Christianity did the news article say were on the bus again?


At least one other.

FTFA:
"Gayla Colin, a bus driver for 13 years in the district, told the Star Tribune that her former colleague's actions were inappropriate, especially since many of the students are Muslim."
 
2013-11-07 11:51:20 AM  

DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles:


Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.

whgbetc.com

medievalchristianityd.wikispaces.com

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com

archive.adrian.edu

figures.boundless.com

ushmm.org

static.guim.co.uk

www.examiner.com

www.queeried.com

Yeah you're probably right, I can't off hand think of an instance where faith ever hurt anybody.
 
2013-11-07 11:52:44 AM  

ScaryBottles: DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles:

Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.

[whgbetc.com image 367x344]

[medievalchristianityd.wikispaces.com image 325x255]

[www.eyewitnesstohistory.com image 288x213]

[archive.adrian.edu image 252x392]

[figures.boundless.com image 250x201]

[ushmm.org image 333x237]

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

[www.examiner.com image 239x300]

[www.queeried.com image 314x310]

Yeah you're probably right, I can't off hand think of an instance where faith ever hurt anybody.


Damn, someone brought facts to an idea fight
 
2013-11-07 12:01:10 PM  
BUS FIGHT!!!
s23.postimg.org
 
2013-11-07 12:04:17 PM  

ScaryBottles: DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles:

Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.

[whgbetc.com image 367x344]

[medievalchristianityd.wikispaces.com image 325x255]

[www.eyewitnesstohistory.com image 288x213]

[archive.adrian.edu image 252x392]

[figures.boundless.com image 250x201]

[ushmm.org image 333x237]

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

[www.examiner.com image 239x300]

[www.queeried.com image 314x310]

Yeah you're probably right, I can't off hand think of an instance where faith ever hurt anybody.


upload.wikimedia.orgi.telegraph.co.uk0.tqn.commesosyn.combarakasamsara.comwww.standbyformindcontrol.com

Well religion is a sword that cuts both ways to be sure.
 
2013-11-07 12:05:00 PM  

DubtodaIll: Hmmm, it's almost as if the content and intent of one's actions has something to do with the way one is treated.  I'm not butthurt and I'm not sure how I'm coming across like that.  I suppose any support of religion just sounds like butthurt to you because the majority of people who vocally support religion are just complete dumbasses in your opinion.  I just think prayer is not a bad thing.  Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.  Making me out to be a fool just because I don't stand as strongly in favor of anti-religious sentiment as you do is pretty silly.



The case at hand has nothing to do with the relative merits, or lack thereof, of religious beliefs.  It has everything to do with an individual in a position of authority, acting under the auspices of an arm of the government, attempting to use that position to impose his personal beliefs on children who do not share them.

The Supreme Court has been very clear that employees of public schools are representatives of the local, state, and federal government, and the government is explicitly prohibited from favoring one religion over another (or over none).

You don't appear foolish for supporting religion.  You appear foolish for supporting blatantly unconstitutional, illegal behavior and employee insubordination.  That's what this case is about.
 
2013-11-07 12:08:00 PM  

FloydA: DubtodaIll: Hmmm, it's almost as if the content and intent of one's actions has something to do with the way one is treated.  I'm not butthurt and I'm not sure how I'm coming across like that.  I suppose any support of religion just sounds like butthurt to you because the majority of people who vocally support religion are just complete dumbasses in your opinion.  I just think prayer is not a bad thing.  Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.  Making me out to be a fool just because I don't stand as strongly in favor of anti-religious sentiment as you do is pretty silly.


The case at hand has nothing to do with the relative merits, or lack thereof, of religious beliefs.  It has everything to do with an individual in a position of authority, acting under the auspices of an arm of the government, attempting to use that position to impose his personal beliefs on children who do not share them.

The Supreme Court has been very clear that employees of public schools are representatives of the local, state, and federal government, and the government is explicitly prohibited from favoring one religion over another (or over none).

You don't appear foolish for supporting religion.  You appear foolish for supporting blatantly unconstitutional, illegal behavior and employee insubordination.  That's what this case is about.


I already said that him being fired for insubordination was fine.
 
2013-11-07 12:09:41 PM  

DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles: DubtodaIll: Farking Canuck: DubtodaIll: I don't get how prayer isn't a First Amendment Right.   On the one side, you're free to practice your religion.  On the other side, it's just some guy talking out loud to essentially nothing.  How does that hurt anything?  It's not just to force the guy to be fired.  Going out of your way in order to ruin the current circumstances of a bus driver because he talked out loud to a group of children is not an equal action to a bus driver talking out loud to a group of children.

He was warned on multiple occasions, in writing, to stop what he was doing. His route was changed explicitly because of customer complaints.

He was fired for multiple reasons:

- complaints from the end customers (parents did not want him preaching to their children)
- complaints from the school (they did not want a person representing them preaching religion - violation of church and state)
- refusing to comply with explicit instructions from management

They gave him plenty of warning and were exceptionally patient with him. They had an employee who disobeys orders and alienates their customers. It was a simple business decision -  he deserved to be fired.

I can see if the guy was being insubordinate.  But further, how is it not discrimination against him towards his own religion to practice his own religion?  If you don't believe in it, then tell your child to ignore the rantings of the bus driver.  I can see why they fired him, but it just seems like they're hurting this guys ability to survive for the sake of protecting snowflakes which I find wrong.  Getting offended doesn't give you the right to anything.

But that didn't stop you from coming out swinging butthurt cranked up to eleventy. Practice what you preach. Also this isn't a just case of unpopular speech it is a case of an indisputable violation of the law. But putting that aside completely he was warned, officially reprimanded and reassigned due to complaints yet still persisted in violatin ...

Hmmm, it's almost as if the content and intent of one's actions has something to do with the way one is treated.  I'm not butthurt and I'm not sure how I'm coming across like that.  I suppose any support of religion just sounds like butthurt to you because the majority of people who vocally support religion are just complete dumbasses in your opinion.  I just think prayer is not a bad thing.  Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.  Making me out to be a fool just because I don't stand as strongly in favor of anti-religious sentiment as you do is pretty silly.


It's not necessarily an "anti-religious" sentiment, so much as a "pro-freedom" one; you can't have a country that is both "Christian" and "free". Either people have the freedom to choose their own religion or they don't.

If you come up to me on the street and try to proselytize, I have every right to tell you to stop and walk away, and if you persist, you are committing a crime and infringing upon my rights. These kids are not being afforded the rights to believe as they or their parents wish, and not be proselytized to if they wish.

Tldr: you have a right to free speech in public, but not an entitlement to a platform or audience. Your free speech rights place me under no obligation to listen to you, and these kids had no way to escape the unwanted speech.
 
2013-11-07 12:16:46 PM  
ts3.explicit.bing.net
 
2013-11-07 12:26:26 PM  

DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles: DubtodaIll: ScaryBottles:

Faith does a lot of inspire a person to do better for themselves and for others and history backs that up.

[whgbetc.com image 367x344]

[medievalchristianityd.wikispaces.com image 325x255]

[www.eyewitnesstohistory.com image 288x213]

[archive.adrian.edu image 252x392]

[figures.boundless.com image 250x201]

[ushmm.org image 333x237]

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

[www.examiner.com image 239x300]

[www.queeried.com image 314x310]

Yeah you're probably right, I can't off hand think of an instance where faith ever hurt anybody.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x434][i.telegraph.co.uk image 404x300][0.tqn.com image 850x1291][mesosyn.com image 850x637][barakasamsara.com image 850x354][www.standbyformindcontrol.com image 850x504]

Well religion is a sword that cuts both ways to be sure.


Ah, the old false equivalency..... Please explain to us all how even one of those things contributes to the betterment and development of all humanity. Which is the logical counter point to the harm religion does. Or for that matter explain to us how admittedly exquisite works of art mitigate the I'm going to go ahead and say hundreds of millions of lives "faith" has taken in the name of superstition? But all this academic really, the facts of the matter are he violated the law and school board policy repeatedly after being given more chances than he probably desrved. So go cry to someone else. People like you always seem to forget that responsibilities come part and parcel with freedom, and one of those responsibilities especially if you are employed by the local, state or federal government is to not try and force your beliefs on others. You are never going to win this, you are objectively and demonstrably wrong period. Perpetuating this is just making you look even more stupid and/or dishonest so just save you moral outrage for your annual phony made up  war on christmas. It should only be a couple of weeks before you guys can start whinging on about that.
 
2013-11-07 12:36:13 PM  
ScaryBottles:

so just save you moral outrage for your annual phony made up war on christmas. It should only be a couple of weeks before you guys can start whinging on about that.

Start?  They never stop.
 
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