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(Miami Herald)   Miami Dolphins players condemn Dick Incognito. Just kidding, they rally around him and blame Jonathan Martin for not being "cut out for this"   (miamiherald.com) divider line 200
    More: Followup, Richie Incognito, Dick Incognito, dolphins, Brian Hartline, Mike Pouncey, Tyson Clabo, Randy Starks, Ryan Tannehill  
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984 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Nov 2013 at 8:30 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-07 08:05:17 AM
I swear, this almost sounds like a love gone bad.
 
2013-11-07 08:20:15 AM
Not surprising
 
2013-11-07 08:31:24 AM
I'm sure the hand wringers of Fark know what went on better than the people who were there.

Let's find out....
 
2013-11-07 08:32:12 AM
I think that unless you are immersed in that culture of NFL locker room behavior, it's hard to say if someone is being too sensitive or being a bully.  I have a feeling a little of both in this case.
 
2013-11-07 08:35:23 AM
Things rarely end well when asshole meets crazy.
 
2013-11-07 08:35:50 AM
I don't pay much attention to football, but there was a bit on this on the Today show this morning. I do like how it was only white guys saying Incognito isn't racist. Really? Couldn't get a single black guy on the team to say that on camera?
 
2013-11-07 08:36:36 AM
Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.
 
2013-11-07 08:37:13 AM
Sad, but predictable.
 
2013-11-07 08:37:15 AM
This is one of those stories that the media has collectively decided on a narrative and run with it. I do wonder if just maybe Martin is screwy or scheming or maybe just plain evil.

We have no idea.
 
2013-11-07 08:37:35 AM

basemetal: I think that unless you are immersed in that culture of NFL locker room behavior, it's hard to say if someone is being too sensitive or being a bully.  I have a feeling a little of both in this case.


Depends on if the voice mail is a one time incident or indicative of a wider scope of treatment.  I'm not saying racial slurs and death threats can't be part of a "boys will be boys" scenario, but the likelyhood is pretty farking low especially when the recipient reports it..
 
2013-11-07 08:38:22 AM
This incident could not have been handled any worse by everyone involved, including the media, had this been a normal workplace and Jonathan Martin been a woman.

I rag on "feminists" all the time, but the one thing I'll mostly agree with them on is harassment (except that I don't think asking a woman out for coffee is harassment). But they've got it easy compared to any man who isn't "tough enough" to play a sport.  There's a far bigger bully culture in sports than there is a rape culture in society.  And when such things leak, they leak hard.  (I'd even lump the Steubenville rape case and the Penn State cases into said culture.)
 
2013-11-07 08:38:53 AM
Gonz


Yeah, you're gonna have to try a bit harder than that.

/ the 50th different person to cast that exact bait....
 
2013-11-07 08:42:14 AM
Something something warrior's code?
 
2013-11-07 08:43:36 AM
Please continue to disregard what the actual people involved in the story say. You know the real truth!
 
2013-11-07 08:44:44 AM
Being sensitive does NOT make one less of a man.
 
2013-11-07 08:44:54 AM
He's not.
 
2013-11-07 08:45:35 AM
Sports radio (specifically Artrell Hawkins and Firman) are all over this as to "this is football...you never played the game....you don't understand" angle in defending what is essentially workplace violence, intimidation, and bad behavior.  You have to "deal with it" and you weren't made for football.

So the coonter-offensive has begun, and I think the Dolphins players coming out have essentially circled the wagons to protect themselves, as they know that, if they get the story right, they can escape punishment and hopefully their own complicity in the affair will not come to light.

Entirely predictable.  As if the NFL is somehow an organization where intimidation, workplace violence is "okay" because the "locker room" is different.  Hawkins and Firman are saying Martin should stand up for himself by fighting Incognito.  What if Martin thought the proper way to fight back is to bring a gun to the locker room?

These clowns on the radio (hawkins) compared this "bullying" in the locker room with the American fight for independence from England.  I about shot myself for the stupidity I was hearing.
 
2013-11-07 08:47:37 AM

Mi-5: Artrell Hawkins


He is a complete idiot, but it cracks me up that he tries to talk like Barry White all the time.
 
2013-11-07 08:49:23 AM
Why are we still discussing this? Bottom line, it's the Dolphins. We all need to take two steps back and realize we shouldn't care.
 
2013-11-07 08:53:08 AM

Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.


No matter how many times you try this will never be an form of art
 
2013-11-07 08:55:53 AM
No matter what you do for a living, threatening coworkers with death while using racial slurs will earn you some blow back.

This reality doesn't get suspended because locker room.
 
2013-11-07 08:56:03 AM

Waldo Pepper: Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.

No matter how many times you try this will never be an form of art


Warriors' Code is so fetch!
 
2013-11-07 08:56:08 AM
Anyone who's ever been to high school knows the jocks think they own the farking place, so what's going to make you think they're going to become caring and benevolent after they've managed to compete their way to the NFL?
Dick is just an older man-sized prick who usually works in a plant and drinks his check away through four divorces while keeping his ego afloat on glory days. Only his glory days are a lot worse...and a lot more self-justified.
 
2013-11-07 08:56:14 AM

italie: Why are we still discussing this? Bottom line, it's the Dolphins. We all need to take two steps back and realize we shouldn't care.


true, i wish this story and the Dolphins went away forever
 
2013-11-07 08:57:28 AM

Waldo Pepper: Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.

No matter how many times you try this will never be an form of art


Hell, I wasn't "trying" for anything. I just figure this quote is now mandatory for any Incognito thread, si I was getting it out of the way early.
 
2013-11-07 08:59:22 AM
Anyone trying to blame Martin or say he should have done things differently is an idiot. I mentioned in another thread that I work in juvenile justice. I've seen so many examples of abusive relationships it would make your head spin. Whether it was in a gang setting, domestic violence, abusive boyfriend/girlfriend, or just the socially awkward kid getting picked on. The person being abused often "goes along" with things due to fear of threats or being rejected. I think it's clear Martin has got some issues, but you can't blame him for how he handled things. You blame the a-holes who put him in that situation in the first place.
And thank god this didn't end even worse. I've seen plenty of examples where these kind of relationships ended in violence.
 
2013-11-07 09:00:11 AM

Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.


img31.imageshack.us
 
2013-11-07 09:00:33 AM

Gonz: Waldo Pepper: Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.

No matter how many times you try this will never be an form of art

Hell, I wasn't "trying" for anything. I just figure this quote is now mandatory for any Incognito thread, si I was getting it out of the way early.


Don't let him Incognito you, Gonz. Don't be a Martin.
 
2013-11-07 09:01:01 AM

HotWingConspiracy: No matter what you do for a living, threatening coworkers with death while using racial slurs will earn you some blow back.

This reality doesn't get suspended because locker room.


Context matters.

I've said absolutely reprehensible, legally actionable and morally repugnant things to my friends (several of whom were co-workers).  They didn't sue me, because they knew it was in jest.  Just as I did when they said similar things to me.  I'm not saying that's what went on here.  But, I am willing to admit I don't really know what went on here.
 
2013-11-07 09:02:21 AM
Then they should all be banned from the sport. They have no place in society, much less on TV. Let them go rape each other in a Nebraska Corn Field
 
2013-11-07 09:02:46 AM

Summoner101: basemetal: I think that unless you are immersed in that culture of NFL locker room behavior, it's hard to say if someone is being too sensitive or being a bully.  I have a feeling a little of both in this case.

Depends on if the voice mail is a one time incident or indicative of a wider scope of treatment.  I'm not saying racial slurs and death threats can't be part of a "boys will be boys" scenario, but the likelyhood is pretty farking low especially when the recipient reports it..


Meh, he might have talked that way to his face all the time joking around, might have been an ongoing schtick between the two.  I'm not saying there's not outrageous comments, but you don't know the dynamic that went in to it.
 
2013-11-07 09:06:13 AM

HeathenHealer: Anyone trying to blame Martin or say he should have done things differently is an idiot. I mentioned in another thread that I work in juvenile justice. I've seen so many examples of abusive relationships it would make your head spin. Whether it was in a gang setting, domestic violence, abusive boyfriend/girlfriend, or just the socially awkward kid getting picked on. The person being abused often "goes along" with things due to fear of threats or being rejected. I think it's clear Martin has got some issues, but you can't blame him for how he handled things. You blame the a-holes who put him in that situation in the first place.
And thank god this didn't end even worse. I've seen plenty of examples where these kind of relationships ended in violence.


ever seen any examples of it on Fark or the rest of the internet?

Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"
 
2013-11-07 09:06:59 AM
/csb

I graduated from a certain southern school that was kind of infamous for this sort of shiat.   I was there at a time when a certain unfathomably fat woman decided to matriculate and attract a great deal of attention from our Federal government and their Marshals.  As a result, I am more than familiar with the concept of a hazing culture being laid bare for public scrutiny.

What is happening in Miami is going to take some time and its not going to be pretty.  It WILL run uphill and it WILL come out that not only did everyone in the organization know of the behavior, but that they condoned it.

I won't bother arguing the merits of such an environment in other institutions, but I can comment on the rampant stupidity of espousing such behavior in a professional sports team.  Hazing cultures weed out undesirables.  My class had a 67% drop out rate.  People literally left the school in busloads.  Why the fark would you create an environment that causes people to not want to be there when you are paying each and every one of them hundreds of thousands to tens of millions in your own money to play for you?   Unreal.

The military, even when it passively allowed such behavior to occur, only did so in the process of unit qualification training (whatever training you had to endure to qualify for what ever unit that required it would most likely be designed to be hard enough to weed out those who would later prove a liability if they weren't strong enough to endure the training).  Once you were in the unit, everything was about team unification so that you grew to trust everyone on your team and they you.   Internally imposed sanctioning by one artificially contrived stratification within the unit upon another only serves to divide the unit and ultimately reduce the efficacy of the squad.  It boggles my mind that they allowed this to go on.   Hope it comes down on them like a ton of fat girl.

/end csb
 
2013-11-07 09:07:35 AM
Sports radio (specifically Artrell Hawkins and Firman) are all over this as to "this is football...you never played the game....you don't understand" angle in defending what is essentially workplace violence, intimidation, and bad behavior.You have to "deal with it" and you weren't made for football.
So the coonter-offensive has begun, and I think the Dolphins players coming out have essentially circled the wagons to protect themselves, as they know that, if they get the story right, they can escape punishment and hopefully their own complicity in the affair will not come to light.
Entirely predictable.  As if the NFL is somehow an organization where intimidation, workplace violence is "okay" because the "locker room" is different.



Hard cold truth- IT IS.
Insisting that an NFL team is the same as any other workplace is nothing but pure stupidity. Maybe you should listen to the players involved as they continue to try and explain exactly that. Or just continue your ignorant whining about something you obviously can't understand.
 
2013-11-07 09:11:35 AM

srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"


So that makes the abuse ok??
 
2013-11-07 09:11:47 AM

Prevailing Wind: /csb

I graduated from a certain southern school that was kind of infamous for this sort of shiat.   I was there at a time when a certain unfathomably fat woman decided to matriculate and attract a great deal of attention from our Federal government and their Marshals.  As a result, I am more than familiar with the concept of a hazing culture being laid bare for public scrutiny.

What is happening in Miami is going to take some time and its not going to be pretty.  It WILL run uphill and it WILL come out that not only did everyone in the organization know of the behavior, but that they condoned it.

I won't bother arguing the merits of such an environment in other institutions, but I can comment on the rampant stupidity of espousing such behavior in a professional sports team.  Hazing cultures weed out undesirables.  My class had a 67% drop out rate.  People literally left the school in busloads.   Why the fark would you create an environment that causes people to not want to be there when you are paying each and every one of them hundreds of thousands to tens of millions in your own money to play for you?   Unreal.

The military, even when it passively allowed such behavior to occur, only did so in the process of unit qualification training (whatever training you had to endure to qualify for what ever unit that required it would most likely be designed to be hard enough to weed out those who would later prove a liability if they weren't strong enough to endure the training).  Once you were in the unit, everything was about team unification so that you grew to trust everyone on your team and they you.   Internally imposed sanctioning by one artificially contrived stratification within the unit upon another only serves to divide the unit and ultimately reduce the efficacy of the squad.  It boggles my mind that they allowed this to go on.   Hope it comes down on them like a ton of fat girl.

/end csb


exactly why you would, too expensive to provide a free ride for a loafer
 
2013-11-07 09:11:58 AM

srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"


...and of course, as we all know, money makes anything ok.
 
2013-11-07 09:14:06 AM

doubled99: Sports radio (specifically Artrell Hawkins and Firman) are all over this as to "this is football...you never played the game....you don't understand" angle in defending what is essentially workplace violence, intimidation, and bad behavior.You have to "deal with it" and you weren't made for football.
So the coonter-offensive has begun, and I think the Dolphins players coming out have essentially circled the wagons to protect themselves, as they know that, if they get the story right, they can escape punishment and hopefully their own complicity in the affair will not come to light.
Entirely predictable.  As if the NFL is somehow an organization where intimidation, workplace violence is "okay" because the "locker room" is different.


Hard cold truth- IT IS.



Legally it isn't, and that's all that is going to matter.
 
2013-11-07 09:14:09 AM

HeathenHealer: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

So that makes the abuse ok??


it's why I put "abuse" in quotes.  Are you all positively sure this man was abused?  one voicemail transcript and a anecdote about paying for a Vegas trip....anything else you are certain of?
 
2013-11-07 09:15:28 AM

doubled99: Hard cold truth- IT IS.
Insisting that an NFL team is the same as any other workplace is nothing but pure stupidity. Maybe you should listen to the players involved as they continue to try and explain exactly that. Or just continue your ignorant whining about something you obviously can't understand.


See, even if it isn't the same as other workplace, that doesn't give it a pass to workplace laws.  And poor Richie and the Dolphins violated a lot of workplace -and regular- laws with the treatment Martin received.  Hell, for threatening voice mails he could go to jail.  I doubt there will be criminal prosecution but he doesn't get a pass because he plays football.
 
2013-11-07 09:15:32 AM

IlGreven: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

...and of course, as we all know, money makes anything ok.


of course it doesn't.  But if you don't want to get taunted, teased, yelled at, hit in the head VERY VERY HARD, etc, perhaps soccer is your route ;)
 
2013-11-07 09:17:37 AM

srgrobe: HeathenHealer: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

So that makes the abuse ok??

it's why I put "abuse" in quotes.  Are you all positively sure this man was abused?  one voicemail transcript and a anecdote about paying for a Vegas trip....anything else you are certain of?


I agree with you on the facts so far. But the more we find out the shiattier it looks for Miami and Incognito, doesn't it?? Also, judging by Martin's reaction it seems pretty clear something was "wrong" with this whole situation.
 
2013-11-07 09:20:02 AM

QueenMamaBee: I don't pay much attention to football, but there was a bit on this on the Today show this morning. I do like how it was only white guys saying Incognito isn't racist. Really? Couldn't get a single black guy on the team to say that on camera?


There's your problem
 
2013-11-07 09:20:44 AM

srgrobe: HeathenHealer: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

So that makes the abuse ok??

it's why I put "abuse" in quotes.  Are you all positively sure this man was abused?  one voicemail transcript and a anecdote about paying for a Vegas trip....anything else you are certain of?


Yes, because even one voicemail of that type is unacceptable.  In any job that would (or should) get you fired.  And it wasn't the only incident, as their was the one that caused Martin to leave, and the ones others have discussed.

The way I look at it is would I defend a coworker harassing someone dealing with mental health issues even if it was to "toughen them up?"  No, because I am not an asshole or a moron.
 
2013-11-07 09:20:58 AM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Waldo Pepper: Gonz: Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.

No matter how many times you try this will never be an form of art

Warriors' Code is so fetch!


thefetchblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-11-07 09:21:12 AM

HeathenHealer: srgrobe: HeathenHealer: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

So that makes the abuse ok??

it's why I put "abuse" in quotes.  Are you all positively sure this man was abused?  one voicemail transcript and a anecdote about paying for a Vegas trip....anything else you are certain of?

I agree with you on the facts so far. But the more we find out the shiattier it looks for Miami and Incognito, doesn't it?? Also, judging by Martin's reaction it seems pretty clear something was "wrong" with this whole situation.


what more have we found out?  honestly, not trolling, curious.
All I have read is the voicemail transcript.  Wonder when the audio will come out?  Heard about texts, but haven't seen any.

And Martin's reaction doesn't make it so.  Heck plenty of footballers have flipped out.  Even the Dolphins have dealt with it.  Google Dimitrius Underwood.

Anybody recall what happened at Kansas City last year?

Wonder if the Dolphins will be unbeatable next year...
 
2013-11-07 09:21:41 AM
This guy Martin is such a little biatch. I bet he wears his jock-strap in the shower so none of the other players can see his swollen, bleeding mangina. Come on Martin, I've seen soccer players and horse jockeys with more gumption.

I bet Martin sings Lady Gaga songs while making souffles.
 
2013-11-07 09:22:23 AM
See, even if it isn't the same as other workplace, that doesn't give it a pass to workplace laws.


Yes, and a 4th grade schoolyard fight is also assault and battery. Let's start arresting kids.
 
2013-11-07 09:23:01 AM

srgrobe: Prevailing Wind: /csb

I graduated from a certain southern school that was kind of infamous for this sort of shiat.   I was there at a time when a certain unfathomably fat woman decided to matriculate and attract a great deal of attention from our Federal government and their Marshals.  As a result, I am more than familiar with the concept of a hazing culture being laid bare for public scrutiny.

What is happening in Miami is going to take some time and its not going to be pretty.  It WILL run uphill and it WILL come out that not only did everyone in the organization know of the behavior, but that they condoned it.

I won't bother arguing the merits of such an environment in other institutions, but I can comment on the rampant stupidity of espousing such behavior in a professional sports team.  Hazing cultures weed out undesirables.  My class had a 67% drop out rate.  People literally left the school in busloads.   Why the fark would you create an environment that causes people to not want to be there when you are paying each and every one of them hundreds of thousands to tens of millions in your own money to play for you?   Unreal.

The military, even when it passively allowed such behavior to occur, only did so in the process of unit qualification training (whatever training you had to endure to qualify for what ever unit that required it would most likely be designed to be hard enough to weed out those who would later prove a liability if they weren't strong enough to endure the training).  Once you were in the unit, everything was about team unification so that you grew to trust everyone on your team and they you.   Internally imposed sanctioning by one artificially contrived stratification within the unit upon another only serves to divide the unit and ultimately reduce the efficacy of the squad.  It boggles my mind that they allowed this to go on.   Hope it comes down on them like a ton of fat girl.

/end csb

exactly why you would, too expensive to provide a ...


If only there was some way for you to actively cause an employee, even without their volition,  to leave your employ resulting in them not being able to draw a salary from you any more...
 
2013-11-07 09:24:00 AM

sign_of_Zeta: srgrobe: HeathenHealer: srgrobe: Perspective, get u some.  Martin was getting paid millions to take this awful "abuse"

So that makes the abuse ok??

it's why I put "abuse" in quotes.  Are you all positively sure this man was abused?  one voicemail transcript and a anecdote about paying for a Vegas trip....anything else you are certain of?

Yes, because even one voicemail of that type is unacceptable.  In any job that would (or should) get you fired.  And it wasn't the only incident, as their was the one that caused Martin to leave, and the ones others have discussed.

The way I look at it is would I defend a coworker harassing someone dealing with mental health issues even if it was to "toughen them up?"  No, because I am not an asshole or a moron.


have you heard that Martin himself may have been proudly playing his saved voicemail for teammates awhile back, and laughing?  if that's true, still unacceptable?

/never leaves a voicemail
 
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