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(North Jersey)   "Excuse me officers, I heard there was a gunman shooting up the mall - look, I have my own gun, can I help out?"   (northjersey.com) divider line 73
    More: Dumbass, Garden State Plaza, County detectives, paramus, possession of a weapon, Bergen County, Teaneck  
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6966 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2013 at 3:26 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



73 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-07 01:55:07 AM
There's your good man with a gun.
 
2013-11-07 03:27:49 AM
The cops are already there, sheesh.

His heart was in the right place, I guess.
 
2013-11-07 03:29:16 AM
"We don't need you to do that"
 
2013-11-07 03:30:00 AM
Well, weapons violation, he'll never legally carry a gun again no matter where he lives.  Not a very smart guy IMHO
 
2013-11-07 03:34:08 AM
This will be interesting to watch.
*popcorn*
 
2013-11-07 03:34:22 AM
The guy's story doesn't quite add up.

Donovan is a former Marine police officer and a member of the New Milford Ambulance Corps, said his attorney, James Patuto. He said his client, who had been licensed to carry a weapon while he was in the Marines, went to the mall with other emergency medical technicians to offer assistance.

Salzano wrote that he was outside the mall when he began following Donovan because he was wearing a dark leather jacket, similar attire to a description being circulated of the clothing worn by the mall gunman. Donovan told police that he is a "returning veteran" who was honorably discharged from the military in July and "just wanted to help authorities apprehend the suspect," Salzano wrote.


Either he was an EMT in uniform dispatched to the scene, or a random asshole who showed up with a gun to take part in a lynching.
 
2013-11-07 03:35:27 AM
I'm OK with this.
 
2013-11-07 03:38:04 AM
Wouldn't a better way to "help" be to join the police force?

Guess they could have saved SWAT time and just sent in Die Hard.
 
2013-11-07 03:45:28 AM
I have a bad feeling we are going to see more of this and sooner or later one of these guys is gonna mistake someone for the perp and shoot an innocent person.
 
2013-11-07 03:48:53 AM
Done in one
 
2013-11-07 03:50:40 AM

grimlock1972: I have a bad feeling we are going to see more of this and sooner or later one of these guys is gonna mistake someone for the perp and shoot an innocent person.


Bingo.

Which is why cops DON'T WANT YOU TO SHOW UP AND OFFER TO HELP THEM CATCH GUNMEN SHOOTING UP THE MALL.

If anyone mistakes an innocent person for the criminal and kills him, let it be the cops. That's their job. Let THEM do all the impossible explaining.
 
2013-11-07 03:51:03 AM
Idunno. I wanna say he deserves just a warning, but he knew he needed a permit for that weapon to carry it around.
 
2013-11-07 03:51:36 AM
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-07 03:54:34 AM
Never ever ever talk to the police.. if you do you only say three things.

 Am I under arrest?

 Am I free to go?

I want a lawyer!


Keep your guns to yourself bubba
 
2013-11-07 03:56:12 AM
semi related csb:

I was going on I101 from Palo Alto to San Francisco one night, and there was a fairly heavy wind -- a tree fell on the highway about a half mile before me, blocking all lanes but one. When I finally got to the thing, I parked my truck in the emergency lane and started freeing the highway by wiggling my truck back and forth and using a rope to alternately tug and reel in (I don't have a winch).

Surprising thing 1: Nobody helped me. Four people could have moved that thing.
Surprising thing 2: Cops showed up, and instead of helping me, yelled at me about what I was doing. I was almost done, so I didn't acknowledge them telling me to stop until I finished.
Surprising thing 3: After I had cleared the other lanes, people still used the one lane that was free before, as if the tree was still in place, at least while the cops were there.
Surprising thing 4: One of the cops told me that he could have arrested me, to which I replied that everyone involved would have a bad time with that. My friends later told me that what I did was unsafe.

I don't get Americans sometimes.
 
2013-11-07 03:59:20 AM
Donovan told police on Monday that he had a .45-caliber handgun tucked in his waistband, and that he did not have a permit to carry a firearm in New Jersey, a Bergen County Police detective, Ronald Salzano, wrote in an incident report.

This one's not very bright.
 
2013-11-07 04:05:14 AM

spiritplumber: semi related csb:

Surprising thing 2: Cops showed up, and instead of helping me, yelled at me about what I was doing. I was almost done, so I didn't acknowledge them telling me to stop until I finished.

Surprising thing 4: One of the cops told me that he could have arrested me, to which I replied that everyone involved would have a bad time with that.


City, county, or CHP?
 
2013-11-07 04:09:51 AM
HotWingAgenda:

Either he was an EMT in uniform dispatched to the scene, or a random asshole who showed up with a gun to take part in a lynching.

Perhaps he was an off-duty EMT who didn't want to miss the excitement and made up his excuses as he went along.
 
2013-11-07 04:22:19 AM
Yeah, don't do this. Carry legal or not at all, don't head towards a scene, use in immediate defense of self or others only.
 
2013-11-07 04:33:13 AM
That guy should have been arrested for attempted murder instead. It's crystal clear that he has masturbatory fantasies about offing a bad guy.
 
2013-11-07 04:48:47 AM
spiritplumber:

I don't get Americans sometimes.

We are deeply invested in the idea of Western karma, often expressed as no good deed goes unpunished. By attempting to anonymously help ease the day of thousands of people you've never met, you inadvertently stepped in it. But was what you did actually illegal? It's entirely impossible to say.
 
2013-11-07 04:52:28 AM

Boojum2k: eah, don't do this. Carry legal or not at all, don't head towards a scene, use in immediate defense of self or others only.


I admit that I missed some information in the article.  Still, this is the fourth or fifth time I got better information from the FARK comments thread than from the news media.

Sad, but impressive.  It is like watching some random street bum correcting the punctuation in the local news paper.
 
2013-11-07 04:57:52 AM

spiritplumber: semi related csb:

I was going on I101 from Palo Alto to San Francisco one night, and there was a fairly heavy wind -- a tree fell on the highway about a half mile before me, blocking all lanes but one. When I finally got to the thing, I parked my truck in the emergency lane and started freeing the highway by wiggling my truck back and forth and using a rope to alternately tug and reel in (I don't have a winch).

Surprising thing 1: Nobody helped me. Four people could have moved that thing.
Surprising thing 2: Cops showed up, and instead of helping me, yelled at me about what I was doing. I was almost done, so I didn't acknowledge them telling me to stop until I finished.
Surprising thing 3: After I had cleared the other lanes, people still used the one lane that was free before, as if the tree was still in place, at least while the cops were there.
Surprising thing 4: One of the cops told me that he could have arrested me, to which I replied that everyone involved would have a bad time with that. My friends later told me that what I did was unsafe.

I don't get Americans sometimes.


When was this? Did a sequoia fall on the freeway? Because 101 is decently wide, and any landscaping is set back even farther (and off the freeway). For a tree to fall on the freeway is quite a feat; to block it down to one lane is a magnitude more difficult.
 
2013-11-07 04:58:24 AM

dangelder: spiritplumber:

I don't get Americans sometimes.

We are deeply invested in the idea of Western karma, often expressed as no good deed goes unpunished. By attempting to anonymously help ease the day of thousands of people you've never met, you inadvertently stepped in it. But was what you did actually illegal? It's entirely impossible to say.


It would be for disobeying a lawful order.
 
2013-11-07 05:02:33 AM

Low Budget Dave: Sad, but impressive. It is like watching some random street bum correcting the punctuation in the local news paper.


Um, thanks?
 
2013-11-07 05:09:38 AM
His heart might be in the right place, but his head certainly wasn't!

/unless the right place was up his a**
 
2013-11-07 05:09:56 AM

lucksi: That guy should have been arrested for attempted murder instead. It's crystal clear that he has masturbatory fantasies about offing a bad guy.


2/10.  Nice try.  You might get some bites
 
2013-11-07 05:21:50 AM

Low Budget Dave: Boojum2k: eah, don't do this. Carry legal or not at all, don't head towards a scene, use in immediate defense of self or others only.

I admit that I missed some information in the article.  Still, this is the fourth or fifth time I got better information from the FARK comments thread than from the news media.

Sad, but impressive.  It is like watching some random street bum correcting the punctuation in the local news paper.


Fourth, or fifth? Really? This is why I keep coming to Fark. The faithful most times come up with a link/fb photo/etc that sheds more light on a perp/subject/local law/family history/prior charges etc. that is in MOST cases these days, missing from the submitted link. Not to mention the opinions of all of our Fark scholars, and armchair lawyers. Just last night I read of a triple fatality shooting in Detroit. Fox listed the location of the shooting as "a very popular road by a liquor store". Has this "very popular road" not been given a name yet? I, for one suggest we name all of the popular roads, so when a shooting occurs, the press can actually pinpoint the location for the reader of the story. Also, excellent analogy.
 
2013-11-07 05:22:45 AM
Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?
 
2013-11-07 05:38:29 AM

Prophet of Loss: Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?


When you find groups of people shooting at each other, it's only polite to let them finish.
 
2013-11-07 05:51:23 AM

Danger Avoid Death: Prophet of Loss: Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?

When you find groups of people shooting at each other, it's only polite to let them finish.


This
 
2013-11-07 05:59:00 AM

HotWingAgenda: Either he was an EMT in uniform dispatched to the scene, or a random asshole who showed up with a gun to take part in a lynching.


-Marine Police officer
-Ambulance corps

"Why not both?"

Not being in uniform doesn't mean that you lose all of your medical skills.

spiritplumber: Surprising thing 3: After I had cleared the other lanes, people still used the one lane that was free before, as if the tree was still in place, at least while the cops were there.


A lot of states in the USA have a 'move over' law for vehicles with flashing lights, you're to move over to the other side if at all possible, IE give the cops a clear lane to get into/out of their vehicle.
 
2013-11-07 06:21:22 AM

Boojum2k: Low Budget Dave: Sad, but impressive. It is like watching some random street bum correcting the punctuation in the local news paper.

Um, thanks?


My metaphors need work in the same way that someone needs something...
 
2013-11-07 06:24:42 AM

Danger Avoid Death: Prophet of Loss: Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?

When you find groups of people shooting at each other, it's only polite to let them finish.


Just shoot them all and let God sort it out.
 
2013-11-07 06:25:39 AM

Bigdogdaddy: lucksi: That guy should have been arrested for attempted murder instead. It's crystal clear that he has masturbatory fantasies about offing a bad guy.

2/10.  Nice try.  You might get some bites


His seems like a pretty good assessment of the situation to me.
 
2013-11-07 06:46:58 AM

Prophet of Loss: Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?


Announce yourself as the police and command everyone to get on the floor and disarm their selves?  Shoot the one who doesn't do this.
 
2013-11-07 06:47:54 AM
Your main goal when CCW should be the following (note I say goal):

1) Never disclose you are carrying, to anyone, unless required by law (ie when speaking with Police in certain states) - this includes making sure you are adequately concealed and not bulging or 'printing'
2) Never having to draw your weapon (eg. can I do something differently so as not to cause myself to have to draw my weapon)

This should be the thought process, IMHO, in people who CCW.
 
2013-11-07 07:05:21 AM

NickelP: Prophet of Loss: Imagine a country where your a cops. Arriving at a shots fired call, you find several groups shooting at each other.

Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?

Announce yourself as the police and command everyone to get on the floor and disarm their selves?  Shoot the one who doesn't do this.


"HEY! Eyem a cops! Disarm your Selves! Dont mayk me fill out paperwork; itss hard..."
willvideoforfood.com
 
2013-11-07 07:12:38 AM

HotWingAgenda: The guy's story doesn't quite add up.

Donovan is a former Marine police officer and a member of the New Milford Ambulance Corps, said his attorney, James Patuto. He said his client, who had been licensed to carry a weapon while he was in the Marines, went to the mall with other emergency medical technicians to offer assistance.

Salzano wrote that he was outside the mall when he began following Donovan because he was wearing a dark leather jacket, similar attire to a description being circulated of the clothing worn by the mall gunman. Donovan told police that he is a "returning veteran" who was honorably discharged from the military in July and "just wanted to help authorities apprehend the suspect," Salzano wrote.

Either he was an EMT in uniform dispatched to the scene, or a random asshole who showed up with a gun to take part in a lynching.


Doesn't even matter either way; under both circumstances he's still carrying a gun illegally.
 
2013-11-07 07:13:56 AM
What a meathead. No wonder he was a Marine.
 
2013-11-07 07:17:00 AM

Gyrfalcon: grimlock1972: I have a bad feeling we are going to see more of this and sooner or later one of these guys is gonna mistake someone for the perp and shoot an innocent person.

Bingo.

Which is why cops DON'T WANT YOU TO SHOW UP AND OFFER TO HELP THEM CATCH GUNMEN SHOOTING UP THE MALL.

If anyone mistakes an innocent person for the criminal and kills him, let it be the cops. That's their job. Let THEM do all the impossible explaining.


Yes, let's give cops all the authority. They'd never abuse it.
 
2013-11-07 07:23:53 AM
This event translated to speech: "Please, oh please, oh please let me shoot somebody."
 
2013-11-07 07:26:12 AM

sendtodave: Gyrfalcon: grimlock1972: I have a bad feeling we are going to see more of this and sooner or later one of these guys is gonna mistake someone for the perp and shoot an innocent person.

Bingo.

Which is why cops DON'T WANT YOU TO SHOW UP AND OFFER TO HELP THEM CATCH GUNMEN SHOOTING UP THE MALL.

If anyone mistakes an innocent person for the criminal and kills him, let it be the cops. That's their job. Let THEM do all the impossible explaining.

Yes, let's give cops all the authority. They'd never abuse it.


And when they do, we can trust that 2nd Amendment Patriots will valiantly defend us, and not just support the cops and tell us that they wish they could legally kill people.
 
2013-11-07 07:34:23 AM
 People who use guns in their profession can be a bit apprehensive about random armed people for whom they do not know and have  never trained with. it's just the nature of working with things that can kill people with little effort.
 
2013-11-07 07:40:43 AM

HypnozombieX: People who use guns in their profession can be a bit apprehensive about random armed people for whom they do not know and have  never trained with. it's just the nature of working with things that can kill people with little effort.


Wasn't there a dozen different police departments there?  I seem to recall them bussing them in.  That must be a big ass training program they have and a great social network that all those folks are regular with each other.
 
2013-11-07 07:49:21 AM
My first thought was that this is exactly the kind of murderous Rambo-wannabe that anti-gun campaigners love to hate, but I actually think ZurkisPhreek got the closest to it.  Here's someone with ample experience and I assume someone who loved his job.  He saw a situation and the chance to help people he may feel a certain kinship with and possibly to relive some of his former glory.  Obviously he's a dangerous fool, but I don't think he's a psychopath just looking to get his gun off.
 
2013-11-07 08:17:46 AM

The Envoy: My first thought was that this is exactly the kind of murderous Rambo-wannabe that anti-gun campaigners love to hate, but I actually think ZurkisPhreek got the closest to it.  Here's someone with ample experience and I assume someone who loved his job.  He saw a situation and the chance to help people he may feel a certain kinship with and possibly to relive some of his former glory.  Obviously he's a dangerous fool, but I don't think he's a psychopath just looking to get his gun off.


pbs.twimg.com
"Hi! I just thought you might need an extra gun..."

I don't think this is especially white-washable; people who have "ample experience" and "love their job" know that this is not a license to horn in wherever they think they are needed. CPAs can't barge into banks because they think it needs a good auditing. Airline pilots can't commandeer a private plane because they don't like the angle of the flaps on the ground. You may be excellent at your job, and love it to death - but you have never, ever, once even thought about doing it after-hours for free for the company next door.

Abby Normal.

In this case, the difference between "a psychopath just looking to get his gun off" and "a certain kinship with and possibly to relive some of his former glory" is just the semantics of pity.
 
2013-11-07 08:32:28 AM

Bigdogdaddy: Well, weapons violation, he'll never legally carry a gun again no matter where he lives.  Not a very smart guy IMHO


Only idiots think the police are there to do anything but arrest as many people as possible.
 
2013-11-07 08:36:57 AM

Prophet of Loss: Now, who are the "bad guys" and who are the citizen "Rambos" whose masturbatory ego stroking isn't helping?


It's pretty easy to tell, actually.  The ones who shoot at you are the bad guys.
 
2013-11-07 08:53:20 AM

perigee: "Hi! I just thought you might need an extra gun..."

I don't think this is especially white-washable; people who have "ample experience" and "love their job" know that this is not a license to horn in wherever they think they are needed. CPAs can't barge into banks because they think it needs a good auditing. Airline pilots can't commandeer a private plane because they don't like the angle of the flaps on the ground. You may be excellent at your job, and love it to death - but you have never, ever, once even thought about doing it after-hours for free for the company next door.

Abby Normal.

In this case, the difference between "a psychopath just looking to get his gun off" and "a certain kinship with and possibly to relive some of his former glory" is just the semantics of pity.


The mistake you've made here is that you've applied your own standards of thought to this situation and the hypothetical situations, and it's a pretty good bet that you are smarter than the dangerous fool from TFA.  I don't think he knew that it wasn't a licence to not try to horn in.  I don't think he thought about it much at all, that's my point.  Note that I don't think his stupidity excuses him from punishment, but the two types of people in my example (dumbass and psycho) are vastly different.

It's not the "semantics of pity" as I don't think he deserves any pity.  The motivations of the two types, which is what I am speaking to, are considerably different.  I certainly don't think he should ever be allowed to carry a gun again as the results of an armed psycho and an armed but well-meaning dumbass are likely to be the same: dead people.

Oh, and I have done my job, for free, out-of-hours for a different company - my wife's former employer, which was a charity.
 
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