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(Yahoo)   Firefighters to homeowner: We're really sorry your house burned down sir, oh by the way here's our bill for $20,000   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 56
    More: Asinine, Arizona Senate, Rural/Metro, unincorporated areas, fire departments, Rural Metro Fire Department  
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10510 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2013 at 7:20 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-11-07 07:48:10 AM
6 votes:
Suck it, Randroids.

Going Galt is all fun and games until you need help.
2013-11-07 02:04:34 AM
6 votes:
FTFA: Arizona State Senator Chester Crandell admitted that fire coverage in Arizona's rural areas is a mess, "Having county islands that have no service in, in uh, fireboards that are just packing up and leaving, going bankrupt... It's certainly something that needs to be addressed."

How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?
2013-11-07 03:06:28 AM
4 votes:
Strange. I pay taxes and I get "free" police and fire.
I wonder why people complain so much about paying taxes.

/yes, I saw that he paid taxes. Yes, I saw that he was getting billed by the second responders. Yes, I think they should go to hell. Yes I think they are trying to screw him over.
2013-11-07 02:29:05 AM
4 votes:

Dufus: As a secondary response called by the other department they should not be charging the homeowner.


That's the long and short of it.

If YOU want backup, that's on YOU.
2013-11-07 08:23:32 AM
3 votes:
Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"
2013-11-07 07:44:25 AM
3 votes:
But at least he is being helped by a good, kindly free market solution instead of an evil government socialism solution. This is true freedom!
2013-11-07 10:28:50 AM
2 votes:

Bootstrappy!

"Unincorporated area without fire coverage" = "billed for services rendered". This is exactly what teabaggers want, so why all the pearl-clutching?
2013-11-07 09:06:10 AM
2 votes:
Privatize Everything!!! Vote Republican!!!
2013-11-07 08:41:39 AM
2 votes:
This is what every day would be like in a teabagger paradise.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-07 08:37:22 AM
2 votes:
So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

My understanding is you can be responsible for some costs of unsolicited emergency response when society judges a reasonable person would not have refused. The principle is like the rule that minors can make binding contracts for necessities like food, although they can not be bound by contracts in general.

In my area they can't charge a fire protection fee because fire protection is part of property taxes. Emerson College v. City of Boston 391 Mass. 415 (1984). The rationale is, in densely populated areas you need a fire department to keep fires from spreading. These stories about subscription based fire services are usually in rural areas with scattered buildings that can be allowed to burn in isolation.
2013-11-07 08:23:57 AM
2 votes:
Every time some county or city FD tries to fark someone over dozens of farktards scream "free market!"
2013-11-07 08:16:52 AM
2 votes:
How about you guys privatize police and firefighters and prisons and hospitals and government. Then you reap what you sowed.
2013-11-07 08:06:18 AM
2 votes:

dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.


Are you just going to completely ignore the fact a public department DID make it there first and the huge bill is from the guys doing the clean up?
2013-11-07 08:05:21 AM
2 votes:

dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.


Taxes exist for a reason.  Things like fire departments are part of that reason.
2013-11-07 07:42:40 AM
2 votes:
Not a problem.  The homeowner just has to show up at the fire station uninvited.  Wash some windows, pick a few weeds out of the lot, and submit a $20,000 cleaning bill.
2013-11-07 01:18:19 AM
2 votes:
The primary responding department was Surprise, AZ FD who then called for mutual aid from Rural Metro FD to do the overhaul after the house is gone.
Rural Metro (the secondary responders) then charges $1,500 per hour per truck and $150 per hour per man.

As a secondary response called by the other department they should not be charging the homeowner. If the first department had charged, it could be different.

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent
2013-11-08 12:23:01 AM
1 votes:
But Justin was in for another shock when two weeks later he received a bill from Rural Metro Fire Department, a private department, charging him ...
... The family's home insurance does not cover the charges....
Arizona State Senator Chester Crandell admitted that fire coverage in Arizona's rural areas is a mess ...
....residents of this unincorporated area have few options: Buy a yearly $500 subscription from Rural Metro for fire coverage, take the gamble of getting a bill if they have a house fire, or form their own fire district which could take months.


You know what would solve this?

That's right:

Eliminate capital-gains, inheritance, and corporate taxes. And scrap progressive income taxes in favor of flat taxes.
And funnel, via vouchers, all taxes for local schools through private, for-profit, unaccountable entrepreneurs ... come to think of it, universally place job-creating hard-nosed businessmen between the government collectors of taxes and the citizen taxpayers that money was collected to serve - they'll find innovative ways of extractive all of it into their own bank accounts heroically saving the public from becoming welfare-dependent leeches.

Oh - and deregulate all the things.
2013-11-07 10:33:33 PM
1 votes:

stappawho: NickelP: hailin: I absolutely do not feel sorry for these people. We have morons outside of fire juridiction do this every year. The refuse to buy a fire service subscription and then pay for the cheapest home owners insurance they can which usually does not cover fire damage. Then they scream bloody hell when they have a fire, have it put out, and get charged for it. Fark you people. Fire subscriptions help pay for training, equipment, and staff while allowing you a fairly low rate ($250 a year here) to protect yourself. Not getting it and then biatching when a fire happens is an asshat move.

I'm also laughing the article makes it seem $150 an hour is excessive for the hourly pay. Firefighters have to go through rigirous trainings, keep themselves in shape, work long hours, continue their education and endanger themselves everytime they go out on a call. $150 an hour is fair in my opinion.

I thought this was funny too.  Most mechanics here charge close to that.  A lawyer starts around double that.  And you need a farking appointment to see either and they probably aren't going to come to you.

Well, they don't get paid that.  I'm guessing that is the fully burdened rate + overhead.


Even then, I suspect at 20k a pop they either don't face that many fires, or they're extorting.

OR, they stick folk with the bill as part of a negotiating tactic similar to, "I'll sue you out of house and home even though I'm in the wrong unless you settle out of court."
pla
2013-11-07 09:56:30 PM
1 votes:
"Yeah, about that bill?  Put a lien on the house.  Oh, wait, you let it burn to the ground.  Enjoy taking ownership of that quarter acre of backfilled swampland."

More seriously, I have to wonder about the legality of this situation.  If the homeowner didn't directly contract with the third party, what right do they have to bill him?  I mean, I may have missed a seriously awesome career opportunity here - Break into people's houses, install a small LAN for them against their will, and then send them a bill for $1500/hr plus $500 per drop.  Win/Win!
2013-11-07 06:41:43 PM
1 votes:

MycroftHolmes: fmk040: You have to pay for the farking fire department?!  WTF?  Is this a rural Arizona thing, or an 'America' thing?  North of the 49, we sure as hell don't pay the fire department except through taxes.

Someone please explain this 'paying for essential services' thing to me...I'm reeling for the sheer implausibility of it.

I am also amused by the 'I don't have to pay, except through taxes'  statement.


*Shrug* It's miniscule enough per person that it hardly matters; it's an after thought, as is my statement re: taxes.  I'd rather not field of accusations of being disingenuous.

Furthermore, how is paying for essential services outside of taxes even a thing?  A privatized fire department makes absolutely no sense to me.  There are some pretty remote areas in SK as well, but they have volunteer firefighters: the equipment and building is maintained through municipal taxes, but the firefighters sure as hell don't charge victims of a blaze.  That is among the most callous things I have heard.
2013-11-07 04:57:19 PM
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: So...this might be news to some but fires spread.


There have been stories about private fire departments that show up and don't touch the house on fire, and are on-call in case it spread to one of their clients. I remember one guy had refused to pay $75/yr or $75/mo (either way, why not?) and was crying when they let his house burn down.

This is NOT that situation though.
2013-11-07 04:53:43 PM
1 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: ArkAngel: Buy a yearly $500 subscription from Rural Metro for fire coverage, take the gamble of getting a bill if they have a house fire, or form their own fire district which could take months.

Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL

I pay a little less than $400 a year for city fire service according to my tax breakdown... $500 seems reasonable for low density countryside.


True but the residents were already paying a fire tax. The Metro subscription is IN ADDITION to the annual taxes...

Also keep in mind that the Metro FD is privately-owned, not city-owned.

Third, Metro were not the first responders to the fire. They were invited in by the local FD.

There is no way in hell that Metro has a legitimate claim to charge the homeowner.
2013-11-07 03:46:09 PM
1 votes:
I don't understand this FTA: "Before the incident area residents thought they had fire coverage because they were paying a 'fire district assistance tax.' But it turns out that that is a countywide tax that funds volunteer fire districts." Does this mean that residents, living in an unincorporated area that is not in a volunteer or other fire district, are paying a tax for a service that they will/do not receive? Wouldn't this be like paying a sewer tax, but not having a sewer?

If they aren't covered by a fire district, why did the Surprise station respond?

Finally, if, as some have stated, the only reason that Rural responded was to protect their paying customers, wouldn't their actions be covered by said paying customers' contracts?

I just don't see how the homeowner here is legally responsible for paying Rural anything.
2013-11-07 01:48:54 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: Sorry, dude... If I don't have health insurance and go in to find out why I'm pissing green pus, I'm going to get billed directly for all of the tests, even if they don't solve the problem.



If I go a soup kitchen and eat a meal, they can't stop me at the door and say "sorry we're low on staff today, we had to bring in some cooks from Boston Market, they'll be expecting your payment shortly".

In this case, that's exactly what happened, the free service (Surprise firefighters) requested resources from the expensive company (Rural Metro), and they're passing the bill on to the customer who had been told that the service had no additional cost.
2013-11-07 01:16:53 PM
1 votes:

You're the jerk... jerk: Dufus: .

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent

Is that common? I was talking to a volunteer firefighter the other day and they said they were in fact paid when called into service.


Very common almost every department I know of that is volunteer receive no money.  I think the person you were talking to is a paid on call -- where they are paid when they go on a call, which differs from career, where you are paid when you are on station...
2013-11-07 12:56:33 PM
1 votes:
You have to pay for the farking fire department?!  WTF?  Is this a rural Arizona thing, or an 'America' thing?  North of the 49, we sure as hell don't pay the fire department except through taxes.

Someone please explain this 'paying for essential services' thing to me...I'm reeling for the sheer implausibility of it.
2013-11-07 12:28:59 PM
1 votes:
Reading about this company has been all kinds of fun, and made me wonder how much fun a private police force would be. Crying rape? Are you a subscriber? Can you pay me my wage to tackle and arrest the perp for 100$/hr? Let me see your credit card. Hes gone already? Shouldve been faster forking over your money. Now i have to arrest you for impeding my investigation,
2013-11-07 10:41:16 AM
1 votes:
My parents live in surprise. It's not at all rural or low density or remote.

This is pretty frightening.
2013-11-07 10:14:46 AM
1 votes:

You're the jerk... jerk: Dufus: .

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent

Is that common? I was talking to a volunteer firefighter the other day and they said they were in fact paid when called into service.


It's common around here. Some of the bigger departments have "paid on-call" guys who only get paid when they are called in, but out in the rural areas it's strictly volunteer, even for the officers. I've been Chief of our department for 2 years, and I've never gotten a penny. I'm also an EMT on our volunteer ambulance service though, and we DO get paid a flat $30/call on the ambulance. The closest hospital is 40 miles away and a normal call lasts at least 2 hours, so it's not great pay, but it's something.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-07 10:05:45 AM
1 votes:
jshine: If a private company can just show up uninvited and provide services, then send a bill, that makes all kinds of interesting business models possible.

Predatory towing is the most common example of this business model.
2013-11-07 09:54:51 AM
1 votes:

Fish in a Barrel: If the home owner doesn't have a contract and didn't request service from Rural Metro, what basis does the company have for sending them a bill?


On the basis they were hoping it wouldn't get publicized, the homeowner had insurance coverage for fire bills, and that he'd forward it like a good little fire victim to his insurer who would pay the super-over-inflated bill.

On that basis.
2013-11-07 09:34:26 AM
1 votes:

thaylin: I.R.Aviator: Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"

Your breakdown is misleading at best. You imply that they are part of the surprise fire district, they are not, they have no fire district, they have to pay for service. The other option would be to let all the houses burn down because no one wants to pay for service.


If that is true, why did the Surprise Fire Department show up first and not bill them? There were already other departments there, the Rural Metro FD did not notify the owners in advance that they'd be billed for their services. Rural Metro only did clean up, and gave no notification of liability for services when they arrived. The customer in this case wasn't given the opportunity to refuse services.

In capitalism, you don't just show up, do work and expect to be paid without the customer consenting to initial services and for the compensation for services. (In this case, you don't show up late, only working on the clean up part and expect compensation without informing the customer that services rendered are for fees). In capitalism, a customer should always be given the opportunity to refuse services or to negotiate fees. The customer was not given either of these opportunities, therefore, Rural Metro's services should be viewed as charity work.

If you stop at a gas station and there's a charity wash who washes your car while you're there and the gas station provides services at a fee without telling you in advance that they're actually charging you for it, should they have a reasonable expectation of collecting on services rendered?
2013-11-07 09:25:25 AM
1 votes:

ArkAngel: Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL


I was about to go jump on the guy about being a teabagger not wanting high taxes then complaining about lack of services, but in this case, the fact that there was only a "gentlemen's agreement" over the situation and he saw a reference to paying for firefighters on his tax bill, yeah, i cant fault the guy completely.

Additionally, in the year 2013 in the most sophisticated nation in the world, you would think that having public fire protection would be just a given. It may be my years of living in NYC where you can't walk three blocks without tripping over a fire station though.

In any case, it reminds me of this:  www.historyireland.com
2013-11-07 09:06:55 AM
1 votes:

SeesWhatYouDidThere: Privatize Everything!!! Vote Republican!!!


This.
2013-11-07 08:58:27 AM
1 votes:
farm4.staticflickr.com
"If you choose to live in an unincorporated area which does not have basic services, you may not have fire or police coverage at all or you may be billed on a per-incident basis when a department from another tax base responds to your call"
Also, maybe you should take the time to understand the taxes you're paying instead of just paying them and making assumptions about what they might be...
2013-11-07 08:32:26 AM
1 votes:

The Envoy: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

What's "condencesion"?


It is when water is pulled out of the atmosphere, commonly onto cold surfaces, but thats not important right now.
2013-11-07 08:22:31 AM
1 votes:

hailin: I absolutely do not feel sorry for these people. We have morons outside of fire juridiction do this every year. The refuse to buy a fire service subscription and then pay for the cheapest home owners insurance they can which usually does not cover fire damage. Then they scream bloody hell when they have a fire, have it put out, and get charged for it. Fark you people. Fire subscriptions help pay for training, equipment, and staff while allowing you a fairly low rate ($250 a year here) to protect yourself. Not getting it and then biatching when a fire happens is an asshat move.

I'm also laughing the article makes it seem $150 an hour is excessive for the hourly pay. Firefighters have to go through rigirous trainings, keep themselves in shape, work long hours, continue their education and endanger themselves everytime they go out on a call. $150 an hour is fair in my opinion.


I thought this was funny too.  Most mechanics here charge close to that.  A lawyer starts around double that.  And you need a farking appointment to see either and they probably aren't going to come to you.
2013-11-07 08:21:15 AM
1 votes:

AgentPothead: How about you guys privatize police and firefighters and prisons and hospitals and government. Then you reap what you sowed.


Wait, I thought privatizing government functions was a win/win?
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-07 08:21:14 AM
1 votes:
Once the fire is knocked down and brought under control, Rural Metro units then provide the overhaul and do essentially the mop up, if you will. So that takes a significant amount of time and a significant amount of resources.

So Rural Metro lets another department do the quick, intense work, then bills high hourly rates for the mopup. Good business model. Up against the wall right after the people who set ambulance and ER rates.
2013-11-07 08:19:53 AM
1 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: ArkAngel: Buy a yearly $500 subscription from Rural Metro for fire coverage, take the gamble of getting a bill if they have a house fire, or form their own fire district which could take months.

Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL

I pay a little less than $400 a year for city fire service according to my tax breakdown... $500 seems reasonable for low density countryside.


For what its worth Surprise isn't a low density countryside. It is a suburb with about 120,000 people...especially of retirees.
2013-11-07 08:18:26 AM
1 votes:

dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.


I grew up in an area where there were more cornfields than people, and we still had a volunteer fire department.

Ron Paul trolls...full of shiat.
2013-11-07 08:15:50 AM
1 votes:

Bucky Katt: FTFA: Arizona State Senator Chester Crandell admitted that fire coverage in Arizona's rural areas is a mess, "Having county islands that have no service in, in uh, fireboards that are just packing up and leaving, going bankrupt... It's certainly something that needs to be addressed."

How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?


Came here to say this, leaving satisfied.
2013-11-07 08:06:32 AM
1 votes:

NutWrench: Before the incident area residents thought they had fire coverage because they were paying a "fire district assistance tax." But it turns out that that is a countywide tax that funds volunteer fire districts.

That seems rather dishonestly worded. What, exactly, are you getting in return for this "fire district assistance tax"?

/come on guys, don't let me down . . .


They got the first responders who showed up and did not charge.
2013-11-07 07:46:41 AM
1 votes:
It always amazes me how byzantine the whole covered vs. not covered situations for a homeowners policy and its almost random rules and regs based on different regions of even the same county.

I would be willing to pay a premium to have my homeowners policy with a gold foil stamp certified by the Fed, the Vatican and Hollywood (and whoever else I can think of... maybe a group of Fark Admins) that no matter what happens to my house (other than me intentionally burning it to the ground) I'm covered, no ifs ands or buts.
2013-11-07 07:45:37 AM
1 votes:

omnimancer28: Endive Wombat: Can this also be explained as a weird accounting method?  Let me explain:

Occasionally we will read stories here on Fark where a home burns down and Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, etc. will then send a bill in full for their equipment - so the cable boxes, externally attached conversion boxes on the side of the house, modems, etc. amounting to hundreds if not a couple thousand dollars...

It seems outrageous to send a bill like this to a resident who just lost their home and all their possessions, but the intent is for them to send the bill directly to their own homeowners insurance policy, and let them work it out with the cable provider.

So could that be what is happening here?  Perhaps the rural fire departments/counties lack the resources to chase money down from the insurance companies, so they kick the bill over to the homeowner who is simply supposed to pass said bill to their insurance company?

It states in the article that the bill is not covered by his homeowner's insurance.


I understand that.  However, that is not what I am asking here...
2013-11-07 07:43:35 AM
1 votes:

StrikitRich: $500 a year for fire coverage?  My local volunteer fire department only charges $75 a year and they have a new fire house and modern equipment.


These guys are a for profit company.  Thats the difference.
2013-11-07 07:36:23 AM
1 votes:
$500 a year for fire coverage?  My local volunteer fire department only charges $75 a year and they have a new fire house and modern equipment.
2013-11-07 07:34:45 AM
1 votes:
Free Market.
2013-11-07 07:30:20 AM
1 votes:
Was the fire chief's name Crassus?
2013-11-07 07:24:49 AM
1 votes:

Dufus: .

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent


Is that common? I was talking to a volunteer firefighter the other day and they said they were in fact paid when called into service.
2013-11-07 07:23:53 AM
1 votes:
Surprise, Arizona, huh?  Surprise, indeed.
2013-11-07 02:03:21 AM
1 votes:
65 year tradition of showing up to someone's house uninvited and then sending a bill?
2013-11-07 01:58:05 AM
1 votes:

ArkAngel: Buy a yearly $500 subscription from Rural Metro for fire coverage, take the gamble of getting a bill if they have a house fire, or form their own fire district which could take months.

Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL


I pay a little less than $400 a year for city fire service according to my tax breakdown... $500 seems reasonable for low density countryside.
2013-11-07 01:47:12 AM
1 votes:
FTFA: Surprise firefighters arrived at the house within 13 minutes and it took Rural Metro 24 minutes to arrive after the call. Their the closest firehouse is 20 miles away, Assessing the situation, neighbor Brian Repp said, "They got here late and his house is totally gone. OK. Then they're going to charge him $20,000 and they let his house go.

As best I can tell from this farking trainwreck of a sentence, even if we assume the first responders were sitting in the truck waiting for an emergency call, they still managed to average 93 mph on the way to the scene.
2013-11-07 12:49:34 AM
1 votes:
What a freaking mess of a situation. My gut instinct was for him to STFU because he isn't paying taxes to support a fire department and wasn't complaining all those years of fire-free, low taxes. But then I kept reading and there was a vague reference to firefighting on his taxes, and the private company showed up after the city of Surprise responded.

The family's home insurance does not cover the charges.

That seems like a bad idea for someone in an area without a fire department. When I bought my house, I was asked on my homeowners insurance application the distance to the nearest responders - when he answered "There isn't one", you'd think the agent would have recommended some supplemental coverage. For all we know, they did and he declined it.
2013-11-07 12:42:30 AM
1 votes:
Torch their station.
 
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