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(Yahoo)   Firefighters to homeowner: We're really sorry your house burned down sir, oh by the way here's our bill for $20,000   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 180
    More: Asinine, Arizona Senate, Rural/Metro, unincorporated areas, fire departments, Rural Metro Fire Department  
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10512 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2013 at 7:20 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-07 08:18:28 AM  

xanadian: doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Remember those FF's denied LODD benefits?

Why would Final Fantasy deny Lord of the Devil Dogs benefits to firefighters? That doesn't even make sense.

FF is for "fire fighters."  I think you've got LODD right, though...


Line of duty death
 
2013-11-07 08:18:30 AM  

Endive Wombat: Can this also be explained as a weird accounting method?


No because being a heartless ghoul is no excused because you can make money off it. In fact, it's worse. I have MUCH more respect for the company that bills the person whose house just burnt down because they're greedy bastards with souls because that's ALL that they are.

What you describe is greedy bastards with no souls WHO ARE ALSO LAZY FARKTURDS WITH NO SENSE OF TACT. An evil like Baron Harkonen you can at least respect for audacity's sake. Lazy farkturds are just coprolites who need to be dumped in a can with grit and water and spun a few days to get some polish on them.
 
2013-11-07 08:19:53 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: ArkAngel: Buy a yearly $500 subscription from Rural Metro for fire coverage, take the gamble of getting a bill if they have a house fire, or form their own fire district which could take months.

Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL

I pay a little less than $400 a year for city fire service according to my tax breakdown... $500 seems reasonable for low density countryside.


For what its worth Surprise isn't a low density countryside. It is a suburb with about 120,000 people...especially of retirees.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-07 08:21:14 AM  
Once the fire is knocked down and brought under control, Rural Metro units then provide the overhaul and do essentially the mop up, if you will. So that takes a significant amount of time and a significant amount of resources.

So Rural Metro lets another department do the quick, intense work, then bills high hourly rates for the mopup. Good business model. Up against the wall right after the people who set ambulance and ER rates.
 
2013-11-07 08:21:15 AM  

AgentPothead: How about you guys privatize police and firefighters and prisons and hospitals and government. Then you reap what you sowed.


Wait, I thought privatizing government functions was a win/win?
 
2013-11-07 08:21:23 AM  
Given the choice between $500/yr and a surprise $20,000 bill I think I'd take the $20,000 bill.

Per 2011 Census and reports of home fires, there were 132,312,404 homes and 236,200 home fires. That's only a 1/560 chance for a fire in any year.
 
2013-11-07 08:22:31 AM  

hailin: I absolutely do not feel sorry for these people. We have morons outside of fire juridiction do this every year. The refuse to buy a fire service subscription and then pay for the cheapest home owners insurance they can which usually does not cover fire damage. Then they scream bloody hell when they have a fire, have it put out, and get charged for it. Fark you people. Fire subscriptions help pay for training, equipment, and staff while allowing you a fairly low rate ($250 a year here) to protect yourself. Not getting it and then biatching when a fire happens is an asshat move.

I'm also laughing the article makes it seem $150 an hour is excessive for the hourly pay. Firefighters have to go through rigirous trainings, keep themselves in shape, work long hours, continue their education and endanger themselves everytime they go out on a call. $150 an hour is fair in my opinion.


I thought this was funny too.  Most mechanics here charge close to that.  A lawyer starts around double that.  And you need a farking appointment to see either and they probably aren't going to come to you.
 
2013-11-07 08:23:32 AM  
Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"
 
2013-11-07 08:23:57 AM  
Every time some county or city FD tries to fark someone over dozens of farktards scream "free market!"
 
2013-11-07 08:25:38 AM  
Also rural metro sounds like a dumbass name.  Just generally speaking
 
2013-11-07 08:26:48 AM  
How do they enforce payment of this bill?  If he doesn't pay what do they do?  Un-burn his house?
This was an unrequested service.  Can housepainters show up and paint his house and submit a bill?
 
2013-11-07 08:27:22 AM  

I.R.Aviator: Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"


Also this.  I have a feeling it would pop out that the owner of rural metro has a brother that is a fire chief for that place or some kick backs are going down to encourage this type of 'show up, have rural metro finish for you' stuff.
 
2013-11-07 08:31:00 AM  

You're the jerk... jerk: Dufus: .

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent

Is that common? I was talking to a volunteer firefighter the other day and they said they were in fact paid when called into service.


FWIW in MA, or at least in my town, volunteer FF are not paid for structure fires but they are paid for grass/forest fires.  It's not a lot though, definitely not $150/hour.
 
2013-11-07 08:31:41 AM  

Gig103: What a freaking mess of a situation. My gut instinct was for him to STFU because he isn't paying taxes to support a fire department and wasn't complaining all those years of fire-free, low taxes. But then I kept reading and there was a vague reference to firefighting on his taxes, and the private company showed up after the city of Surprise responded.

The family's home insurance does not cover the charges.

That seems like a bad idea for someone in an area without a fire department. When I bought my house, I was asked on my homeowners insurance application the distance to the nearest responders - when he answered "There isn't one", you'd think the agent would have recommended some supplemental coverage. For all we know, they did and he declined it.


In most unincorporated areas (and this has specifically been the case with Rural Metro) they typically will not participate in fires with non-subscribers where no one's life is threatened.  Not sure how they can render services that the consumer did not ask for or authorize, then present a bill after the fact.
 
2013-11-07 08:32:26 AM  

The Envoy: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

What's "condencesion"?


It is when water is pulled out of the atmosphere, commonly onto cold surfaces, but thats not important right now.
 
2013-11-07 08:34:57 AM  
Oblig

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-11-07 08:36:07 AM  
I have trouble defending Rural Metro on this one.  They are by far the worst private Fire/Ambulance service in the country.  Voters in my county approved a property tax increase of 5% a year by 94% to ditch Rural Metro and create their own ambulance service.
 
2013-11-07 08:36:32 AM  

The Envoy: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

What's "condencesion"?


It's the second highest form of patriotic, after descent.
 
2013-11-07 08:37:20 AM  

I.R.Aviator: Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"


Your breakdown is misleading at best. You imply that they are part of the surprise fire district, they are not, they have no fire district, they have to pay for service. The other option would be to let all the houses burn down because no one wants to pay for service.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-07 08:37:22 AM  
So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

My understanding is you can be responsible for some costs of unsolicited emergency response when society judges a reasonable person would not have refused. The principle is like the rule that minors can make binding contracts for necessities like food, although they can not be bound by contracts in general.

In my area they can't charge a fire protection fee because fire protection is part of property taxes. Emerson College v. City of Boston 391 Mass. 415 (1984). The rationale is, in densely populated areas you need a fire department to keep fires from spreading. These stories about subscription based fire services are usually in rural areas with scattered buildings that can be allowed to burn in isolation.
 
2013-11-07 08:38:44 AM  

simusid: You're the jerk... jerk: Dufus: .

/served 22 years as a volunteer fireman and never got paid a cent

Is that common? I was talking to a volunteer firefighter the other day and they said they were in fact paid when called into service.

FWIW in MA, or at least in my town, volunteer FF are not paid for structure fires but they are paid for grass/forest fires.  It's not a lot though, definitely not $150/hour.


You do realize most of that goes to overhead.  I don't think anyone is arguing the fire fighters actually get paid $150 /hr.
 
2013-11-07 08:40:12 AM  
The firefighters arent being paid $150/hr (I think we all know this) but the "bill" had to cover all the hours they're sitting around doing relatively little so they're available on a moments notice.  Idiot homeowner seems to forget they are not utilized at 100% time efficiency - someone has to pay for the training, equipment and downtime and the magic money fairy isnt dropping off bags of cash.
 
2013-11-07 08:41:39 AM  
This is what every day would be like in a teabagger paradise.
 
2013-11-07 08:44:54 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: This is what every day would be like in a teabagger paradise.


This has nothing to do with politics, and would happen just as often in a liberal area as well.
 
2013-11-07 08:46:29 AM  

CreamFilling: StrikitRich: $500 a year for fire coverage?  My local volunteer fire department only charges $75 a year and they have a new fire house and modern equipment.

You know why they call it a volunteer fire department?


They're all from Tennessee?
 
2013-11-07 08:47:25 AM  
privatizing things is always a good idea, because free market efficiency and stuff.
 
2013-11-07 08:48:02 AM  

thaylin: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: This is what every day would be like in a teabagger paradise.

This has nothing to do with politics, and would happen just as often in a liberal area as well.


Well, it wouldn't because they wouldn't let everything get privatized like that. Privatization of everything seems to be more the tea parties line. But hey, don't let reality change your opinion. Nobody else ever does.
 
2013-11-07 08:48:23 AM  
Surprise!
 
2013-11-07 08:49:26 AM  

doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Remember those FF's denied LODD benefits?

Why would Final Fantasy deny Lord of the Devil Dogs benefits to firefighters? That doesn't even make sense.


static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-11-07 08:53:03 AM  

hailin: I absolutely do not feel sorry for these people. We have morons outside of fire juridiction do this every year. The refuse to buy a fire service subscription and then pay for the cheapest home owners insurance they can which usually does not cover fire damage. Then they scream bloody hell when they have a fire, have it put out, and get charged for it. Fark you people. Fire subscriptions help pay for training, equipment, and staff while allowing you a fairly low rate ($250 a year here) to protect yourself. Not getting it and then biatching when a fire happens is an asshat move.

I'm also laughing the article makes it seem $150 an hour is excessive for the hourly pay. Firefighters have to go through rigirous trainings, keep themselves in shape, work long hours, continue their education and endanger themselves everytime they go out on a call. $150 an hour is fair in my opinion.


All of this is true, but it seems to have much more relevance to the wage that the firefighter is (or should be) paid, rather than the rate at which his work is billed out to the "client."  All those things do apply to the firefighter and are requirements of the job, but I doubt that it's all being paid by Rural Metro.

I'm an attorney, and for most matters I might bill my time out to my clients at $400/hour, but that has to cover my pro rata share of everything else - overhead, expenses, training, my salary, my staff's salaries, insurance, taxes, database subscriptions, my boss' vacations in St. Barth's (grumblegrumble), et cetera ad nauseam.  I categorically do not find $400 for every billed hour in my pay packet.

In this case, they do bill out the equipment overhead separately (or at least the part of it that corresponds to the fire truck), but all the same, I highly doubt that those guys are pulling down anything like the $300k that an hourly wage would give you.  Hell, newbie firefighters in New York City only make about $43k (source), but the FDNY doesn't have shareholders to satisfy and a profit motive to fulfill.

And finally, haven't we known that for-profit first responders are a bad idea since, I dunno, Crassus set fire to and subsequently bought up half of Rome?
 
2013-11-07 08:54:44 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: Was the fire chief's name Crassus?


Nicely done.
 
2013-11-07 08:56:36 AM  

Fizpez: The firefighters arent being paid $150/hr (I think we all know this) but the "bill" had to cover all the hours they're sitting around doing relatively little so they're available on a moments notice.  Idiot homeowner seems to forget they are not utilized at 100% time efficiency - someone has to pay for the training, equipment and downtime and the magic money fairy isnt dropping off bags of cash.


Idiot homeowner is protesting an inflated bill for services that he did not request that provided little or no value to him.
 
2013-11-07 08:57:39 AM  

NickelP: Fizpez: It always amazes me how byzantine the whole covered vs. not covered situations for a homeowners policy and its almost random rules and regs based on different regions of even the same county.

I would be willing to pay a premium to have my homeowners policy with a gold foil stamp certified by the Fed, the Vatican and Hollywood (and whoever else I can think of... maybe a group of Fark Admins) that no matter what happens to my house (other than me intentionally burning it to the ground) I'm covered, no ifs ands or buts.

Good luck on that.  I don't know if you noticed, but we recently tried to do that with health care insurance.  It really upsets lot of folks ;)


Because poor people! Lazy mooches!

coffee.jpg
 
2013-11-07 08:57:42 AM  

AgentPothead: thaylin: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: This is what every day would be like in a teabagger paradise.

This has nothing to do with politics, and would happen just as often in a liberal area as well.

Well, it wouldn't because they wouldn't let everything get privatized like that. Privatization of everything seems to be more the tea parties line. But hey, don't let reality change your opinion. Nobody else ever does.


It would because the community would still not want to pay for the firehouse in their area due to costs. This has nothing to do with privatization of anything, but a lack of fire service and of the home owner desire to pay the insurance.
 
2013-11-07 08:58:27 AM  
farm4.staticflickr.com
"If you choose to live in an unincorporated area which does not have basic services, you may not have fire or police coverage at all or you may be billed on a per-incident basis when a department from another tax base responds to your call"
Also, maybe you should take the time to understand the taxes you're paying instead of just paying them and making assumptions about what they might be...
 
2013-11-07 09:02:15 AM  

xria: The Envoy: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

What's "condencesion"?

It is when water is pulled out of the atmosphere, commonly onto cold surfaces, but thats not important right now.


You mean 'condensation'?
 
2013-11-07 09:04:37 AM  
We pay taxes to our local fire district, but because of the way the fire districts are laid out, the fire station is further away by several miles than two other fire stations that we don't pay taxes to. I have no idea what agreements are in place or what they would charge us in event of an emergency. I once attempted to ask those "in charge" of the neighborhood about emergency services and was rebuffed (It's a long story, but the nicer part of the neighborhood is in one fire district and our part is in another). I guess I'm just hoping that no one on this side of the fire district line ends up a fark story someday.
 
2013-11-07 09:06:10 AM  
Privatize Everything!!! Vote Republican!!!
 
2013-11-07 09:06:55 AM  

SeesWhatYouDidThere: Privatize Everything!!! Vote Republican!!!


This.
 
2013-11-07 09:10:59 AM  
This needs to be addressed by the Arizona legislature.

Step 1) round up the Mexicans
 
2013-11-07 09:19:36 AM  

NickelP: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

Are you just going to completely ignore the fact a public department DID make it there first and the huge bill is from the guys doing the clean up?


It seems a little asinine to me that the homeowner would be on the hook for charges from a for-profit entity that he didn't agree to have provide him service.

That's like taking your car to the mechanic to get your brakes changed, and upon paying for the bill you see that as a 'courtesy' they took your car to another shop and also replaced your shocks, struts, control arms, and ball joints, charged you accordingly, and didn't bother to disclose that information until you got sticker shock on your bill.  But they figured you needed it anyway- so they got the work done.

Under that provided scenario, not only are those dubious business practices- but it's also downright illegal.  Why it's acceptable under this circumstance is beyond me.  For fark's sake- these Rural Metro assholes were only called in to do the busywork.  How that warrants a $20,000 bill is BEYOND me (and farked up).
 
2013-11-07 09:25:25 AM  

ArkAngel: Less sympathy because of this, though without a written contract detailing their agreements with neighboring fire districts (and given the size of the bill) Metro may be SOL


I was about to go jump on the guy about being a teabagger not wanting high taxes then complaining about lack of services, but in this case, the fact that there was only a "gentlemen's agreement" over the situation and he saw a reference to paying for firefighters on his tax bill, yeah, i cant fault the guy completely.

Additionally, in the year 2013 in the most sophisticated nation in the world, you would think that having public fire protection would be just a given. It may be my years of living in NYC where you can't walk three blocks without tripping over a fire station though.

In any case, it reminds me of this:  www.historyireland.com
 
2013-11-07 09:27:23 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Fizpez: The firefighters arent being paid $150/hr (I think we all know this) but the "bill" had to cover all the hours they're sitting around doing relatively little so they're available on a moments notice.  Idiot homeowner seems to forget they are not utilized at 100% time efficiency - someone has to pay for the training, equipment and downtime and the magic money fairy isnt dropping off bags of cash.

Idiot homeowner is protesting an inflated bill for services that he did not request that provided little or no value to him.


I was more responding to his "shock" at the hourly - I have no doubt that the company involved didnt need to be there and as such should be told to go pound salt - but if you end up using a service that has very high down time but has very high value based on timely response it shouldnt surprise him that the billed hourly is going to be very high.
 
2013-11-07 09:27:50 AM  

Chagrin: Given the choice between $500/yr and a surprise $20,000 bill I think I'd take the $20,000 bill.

Per 2011 Census and reports of home fires, there were 132,312,404 homes and 236,200 home fires. That's only a 1/560 chance for a fire in any year.


Yes but it's $20,000 you may suddenly lose, potentially twice, when you don't have it.

$500/year is a risk control.  You're paying to not have a situation where you suddenly take -$20,000 in the ass.
 
2013-11-07 09:28:59 AM  
No prob, just submit the bill to your insurance company.  o wait.
 
2013-11-07 09:32:55 AM  

Fizpez: MycroftHolmes: Fizpez: The firefighters arent being paid $150/hr (I think we all know this) but the "bill" had to cover all the hours they're sitting around doing relatively little so they're available on a moments notice.  Idiot homeowner seems to forget they are not utilized at 100% time efficiency - someone has to pay for the training, equipment and downtime and the magic money fairy isnt dropping off bags of cash.

Idiot homeowner is protesting an inflated bill for services that he did not request that provided little or no value to him.

I was more responding to his "shock" at the hourly - I have no doubt that the company involved didnt need to be there and as such should be told to go pound salt - but if you end up using a service that has very high down time but has very high value based on timely response it shouldnt surprise him that the billed hourly is going to be very high.


FOr your argument to hold weight, you would have to justify that having full time professionals on standby would exceed the performance of volunteer departments.  A 20 minute response time to do non-time critical mopup does not justify the cost you described.  That is like saying that a visit to a family clinic during business hours, and being charged overhead for an adjoining after hours ER.  The service that you took in did not require the infrastructure you are paying for.
 
2013-11-07 09:34:26 AM  

thaylin: I.R.Aviator: Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"

Your breakdown is misleading at best. You imply that they are part of the surprise fire district, they are not, they have no fire district, they have to pay for service. The other option would be to let all the houses burn down because no one wants to pay for service.


If that is true, why did the Surprise Fire Department show up first and not bill them? There were already other departments there, the Rural Metro FD did not notify the owners in advance that they'd be billed for their services. Rural Metro only did clean up, and gave no notification of liability for services when they arrived. The customer in this case wasn't given the opportunity to refuse services.

In capitalism, you don't just show up, do work and expect to be paid without the customer consenting to initial services and for the compensation for services. (In this case, you don't show up late, only working on the clean up part and expect compensation without informing the customer that services rendered are for fees). In capitalism, a customer should always be given the opportunity to refuse services or to negotiate fees. The customer was not given either of these opportunities, therefore, Rural Metro's services should be viewed as charity work.

If you stop at a gas station and there's a charity wash who washes your car while you're there and the gas station provides services at a fee without telling you in advance that they're actually charging you for it, should they have a reasonable expectation of collecting on services rendered?
 
2013-11-07 09:37:41 AM  
If the home owner doesn't have a contract and didn't request service from Rural Metro, what basis does the company have for sending them a bill?
 
2013-11-07 09:46:17 AM  

ohokyeah: thaylin: I.R.Aviator: Since when can a 3rd party obligate me for an expense?

Lets break this down.

Surprise FD responds (Paid for by taxes or some other means but no bill to homeowner)

Surprise FD may have called, or Rural Metro may have been listening to the scanner and invokes THEIR "mutual aid" agreement and Rural Metro shows up

Rural Metro does essentially the post fire monitoring and cleanup and sends home owner bill

See the disconnect here? The homeowner was not consulted or notified or asked for approval for the charge. So how can the Surprise FD obligate the homeowner to pay for a service that he did not request.

This doesn't appear to be a case of the only/nearest fire protection is a pay/subscription service. But it does appear that there is something shady going on since the Rural Metro FD won't/cant provide a copy of this mutual aid agreement, instead characterizing it as a gentleman's "handshake agreement.

Personally I'd dare the Rural Metro company to sue me to collect, and then during discovery and depositions get to the bottom of these gentleman's agreements.

Methinks that some of what Rural Metro collects finds it way back to the FD that "called them in"

Your breakdown is misleading at best. You imply that they are part of the surprise fire district, they are not, they have no fire district, they have to pay for service. The other option would be to let all the houses burn down because no one wants to pay for service.

If that is true, why did the Surprise Fire Department show up first and not bill them? There were already other departments there, the Rural Metro FD did not notify the owners in advance that they'd be billed for their services. Rural Metro only did clean up, and gave no notification of liability for services when they arrived. The customer in this case wasn't given the opportunity to refuse services.

In capitalism, you don't just show up, do work and expect to be paid without the customer consenting to initial services and ...


The surprise fire department passed off part of the work to metro, it is in the article and the video.. Also fire services are not something you are able to refuse because it not only affects you but your neighbors... IF your house is on fire it has to be put out for the betterment of society, aka your neighbors, less your stupidity becomes their problem. There is also the liability issue, if they did not fight the fire and someone died there could be some major issue..

this leads to the part where they actually showed up and fought part of the fire, just not the initial stages.
 
2013-11-07 09:48:51 AM  

The Envoy: dfenstrate: Bucky Katt: How are all the tax cuts and small government working out for you?

Take a good look at the area, the population density, the tax base, and the average income, and tell us how you could arrange fire coverage better.

Lefties. Full of snark and condencesion, only to reveal themselves as incompetent when in charge.

What's "condencesion"?


I think it means "moist".
 
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