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(Forbes)   Old and Busted: Marijuana is the debbil. New Hotness: Crack and Meth aren't as bad as you think   (forbes.com) divider line 112
    More: Interesting, marijuana, High Price, narcolepsy, Jacob Sullum, reference range, chemical structure  
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6526 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2013 at 6:37 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-06 10:06:17 PM
Marijuana has milder health issues, but meth and crack are just rough on the body.  the vaso constriction, high blood pressure, high heart rate, increased body temps, dehydration, the severe dry mouth, the severe teeth grinding, insomnia, paranoia...........on and on.....

/rough on the body
 
2013-11-06 10:11:36 PM
Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.
 
2013-11-06 10:28:18 PM
I'm so glad my doctor gave me ADHD medicine that is like coke rather than ADHD meds that are actually relabeled meth.
 
2013-11-06 10:36:11 PM

Makh: I'm so glad my doctor gave me ADHD medicine that is like coke rather than ADHD meds that are actually relabeled meth.


I didn't realize there was such a thing, what's the name?
 
2013-11-06 10:41:13 PM

timujin: Makh: I'm so glad my doctor gave me ADHD medicine that is like coke rather than ADHD meds that are actually relabeled meth.

I didn't realize there was such a thing, what's the name?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine Desoxyn
 
2013-11-06 10:43:53 PM

Makh: timujin: Makh: I'm so glad my doctor gave me ADHD medicine that is like coke rather than ADHD meds that are actually relabeled meth.

I didn't realize there was such a thing, what's the name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine Desoxyn


I knew that there were adhd meds like meth, I was wondering about the one you mentioned that's more like coke
 
2013-11-06 10:52:34 PM
"Huffing a can of Lysol is really not so bad"
 
2013-11-06 11:10:14 PM
I did meth weekly for about 3 months. And by weekly I mean three days in a row usually over the weekend. I'd buy about $60 worth on a Friday. I'd meet my girlfriend after work at our house.* Either she had picked it from somebody at work (car dealership) or I had grabbed it from somebody I knew. We'd usually do a sizable line, probably about a tenth of a gram each. Then we'd find things to do. Cleaning was popular, as was organizing piles of stuff we had been neglecting. I spent hours weeding the lawn once. I also liked to fix things around the house.

This might be a good time to mention we lived in a single-wide trailer. It wasn't really shiatty, but it was kind of old. We were in a nice gated community with a clubhouse, pool and even a small golf course.

Anyway, after a few hours we'd pull the bag out and do another line. Much smaller this time...just enough to recharge us. We would stay up all night. Before we went to work the next day we would do enough to go, and set up a sort of to-go package for each of us to get through our last work day of the week.  I managed a not-so-fast food restaurant, she answered phones at the Ford dealer.

I dunno how the hell she did it, but for me I loved that day at work. I'd get the employees taking orders and making the food while I did all the things we usually neglected. Cleaning the fridges, under the sink, the lobby, etc. Or I'd go on a crazy paperwork spree. If it got busy I'd help out the employees because even before drugs I've always been the best employee on any job site.

Including our energy package we had consumed about a fourth of the bag on that first 24 hours.

When we got home from work, we were usually dragging ass and ready to pep up the party. This was the night that we'd actually do a little drinking as well. This is when we might end up playing cards or video games (this was the mid-90's). If we had anybody over, they usually had to bring their own stuff unless it was just one person. We'd go through half the bag that night, leaving about a quarter for Sunday.

Sunday was a day where we got really conservative. We'd spend 15 minutes chopping up and fluffing the drug so that it would last longer. At this point it wasn't really doing a lot. Just the ritual, the burn, and that brief euphoria to keep it going. Sunday afternoon/evening we'd do the last of it, smoke some weed, and put on some trippy or funny movies or just weird music. Stuff like "The Dark Crystal" "The Mask" I dunno, I can't even really remember what movies we were watching back then. The music was Sublime, Dust Brothers stuff, Spawn Soundtrack, that one Fear Factory album that was more electronic than death metal.

Towards the end, we fought all the time. Just lots of jealousy, mistrust, etc. It probably ruined our relationship, but looking back I'm glad it did because she wasn't the girl for me.


*Towards the end of this three month journey we got into arguments about whether or not the other had done some before we got home.  Because fair is fair.
 
2013-11-06 11:16:37 PM

timujin: I knew that there were adhd meds like meth, I was wondering about the one you mentioned that's more like coke


Everyone will know it as ritalin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cocaine_analogues
 
2013-11-06 11:51:14 PM
I don't think Ritalin feels like coke at all.
 
2013-11-06 11:58:45 PM

jaylectricity: I don't think Ritalin feels like coke at all.


I was more concerned about meth mouth when given the choice.
 
2013-11-07 12:26:27 AM
Three months is a good number. You can get over anything in life if you do it in three months. Bad relationships, doing drugs, being a jerk to your mom...whatever it is.
 
2013-11-07 12:39:49 AM
Very little is actually near as bad as propaganda makes it appear

/choose your subject and let fly with the hyperbole
//meth sucks though, IMHO
 
2013-11-07 01:23:57 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Very little is actually near as bad as propaganda makes it appear


That's sort of the nature of propaganda.
 
2013-11-07 02:53:41 AM

basemetal: Marijuana has milder health issues, but meth and crack are just rough on the body.  the vaso constriction, high blood pressure, high heart rate, increased body temps, dehydration, the severe dry mouth, the severe teeth grinding, insomnia, paranoia...........on and on.....

/rough on the body


you know how I know that you didnt read the article?
 
2013-11-07 06:46:17 AM
I take a Sudafed and I'm zonked for the day. Then I come to and my body feels like the sand in my vagina. Dry.

If that's what a little bit of the precursor to meth does, I'd hate to think what the full-on drug feels like.
 
2013-11-07 06:46:51 AM

jaylectricity: I did meth weekly for about 3 months. And by weekly I mean three days in a row usually over the weekend. I'd buy about $60 worth on a Friday. I'd meet my girlfriend after work at our house.* Either she had picked it from somebody at work (car dealership) or I had grabbed it from somebody I knew. We'd usually do a sizable line, probably about a tenth of a gram each. Then we'd find things to do. Cleaning was popular, as was organizing piles of stuff we had been neglecting. I spent hours weeding the lawn once. I also liked to fix things around the house.

I dunno how the hell she did it, but for me I loved that day at work. I'd get the employees taking orders and making the food while I did all the things we usually neglected. Cleaning the fridges, under the sink, the lobby, etc. Or I'd go on a crazy paperwork spree. If it got busy I'd help out the employees because even before drugs I've always been the best employee on any job site.



i think this kind of stuff is more common than you'd think. i can't find the quote now, but kelis said something like she used to take E then write, or clean her house. afterwards it'd be sparkling

some party supplies certainly make DIY less desperately dull
 
2013-11-07 06:51:40 AM
So this means that all that weed I've smoked is good for me right?

/dnrtfa
 
2013-11-07 06:54:02 AM
I haven't heard too many stories about guys going gay-for-pay to feed their MJ habits.
 
2013-11-07 06:57:32 AM
I, as a paramedic, would rather deal with 10 heroin junkies than deal with another tweaker. At least when a guy is strung out on horse, he's somewhat predictable. Never going to guess what those brown toothed nutters are gonna do.
 
2013-11-07 06:59:46 AM
I don't think Meth, Crack or other "hard" drugs should be legalized, but I do think that there should be some form of supply of such drugs available to addicts, and supply produced by the quality standards of medical drugs. As I understand it, a lot of the nasty effects of addiction are from impurities introduced by addicts manufacturing drugs in a makeshift lab in their farking kitchen or toilet. I figure the drugs should remain illegal, and anyone using them should be sentenced to a mandatory rehabilitation program and, perhaps, losing privileges such as their driver's license, but at the same time they should not be forced to purchase the drugs from sources that fuel organized crime and wreak worse havoc on the body of the addicts than the actual drug does.
 
2013-11-07 07:05:06 AM

namatad: basemetal: Marijuana has milder health issues, but meth and crack are just rough on the body.  the vaso constriction, high blood pressure, high heart rate, increased body temps, dehydration, the severe dry mouth, the severe teeth grinding, insomnia, paranoia...........on and on.....

/rough on the body

you know how I know that you didnt read the article?


TFA doesn't address extended periods of high blood pressure and high heart rate, just occasional use.

I've seen enough of what drugs turn people into to know that they really change people over time. Usually into the stereotypes.
 
2013-11-07 07:08:58 AM
You'd be pretty hard pressed to find a drug as bad as Mr and Mrs Murica imagine any of them to be.
 
2013-11-07 07:09:04 AM
PROTIP Subby: no matter how much you love prohibition, it does not work, nor has it ever worked. It creates a black market, and therefore problems with the law, loss of life, liberty, etc...
 
2013-11-07 07:11:08 AM

Generation_D: Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.


Most of the bad effects of meth come from the contaminents of cleetus making it from cleaners and cleansers not from the actual active ingredient.

Lemmy from Motörhead has been doing meth for 40something years and doesnt look like a faces of meth billboard.
 
2013-11-07 07:17:59 AM
Cheating on your wife is not illegal. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
 
2013-11-07 07:18:40 AM
our air force was fed lots of methamphetamines during WWII (and probably after)
 
2013-11-07 07:20:55 AM

Generation_D: Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.


I wouldn't say just stupid people, but people with the emotional disposition to become addicted. Sadly most of America's abhorrence and of drugs and subsequent support for an irrational drug war is predicated on the examples of people with addictive tendencies.

In truth, without a lot of education and emotional help you're never going to stop this person from finding a past time that destroys their life. Society is quick to demonize the substance or method that led to their demise, but that destructive side was always part of them.

People with a pro-gun stance have long used the now trite argument that guns don't kill people, people kill people. This isn't completely wrong, but it's a gross oversimplification. The same type of argument applies to drugs, people willfully ingest them which should be their right, and it's not solely the fault of the drug, but there should also be a modicum of regulation there as well and a healthy respect for the potential danger.

Outright banning of even these harder drugs doesn't seem like the way to go, but they also shouldn't be behind the counter at your local Wal-mart.
 
2013-11-07 07:20:56 AM
I think any drug where 10 to 20% of casual users become hard core addicts is a drug that should be avoided. That's not the pattern with alcohol, which can be highly addictive but only in a smaller percentage of users. And for meth, its not good for the brain to crank it up without sleep for long periods.
 
2013-11-07 07:21:19 AM

badhatharry: Cheating on your wife is not illegal. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.


Doesn't mean it's a bad idea either...
 
2013-11-07 07:22:50 AM
I used to take Adderall for ADHD (Adderall, FYI, is amphetamine, not methamphetamine, so the potency is lower for the same dosage).

I took my blood pressure during the day after a dose of Adderall, and it was something like 190/150. That is bad, bad news, especially since there is a history of hypertension in my family. I stopped taking it shortly thereafter. I was more effective when I took the meds, but I'll live longer without it, so I've learned to cope in other ways.

I can imagine what unknown doses of meth (with their unknown impurities) could do to someone's cardiovascular system over time.
 
2013-11-07 07:24:58 AM

Animatronik: I think any drug where 10 to 20% of casual users become hard core addicts is a drug that should be avoided. That's not the pattern with alcohol, which can be highly addictive but only in a smaller percentage of users. And for meth, its not good for the brain to crank it up without sleep for long periods.


Alcohol is close... according to one study 8.5% of Americans are alcoholics.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/problem/a/blnih040802.htm
 
2013-11-07 07:26:57 AM
I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.
 
2013-11-07 07:30:28 AM

Generation_D: Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.


Hasn't that been the case with most drugs? Especially coke.
 
2013-11-07 07:35:03 AM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I haven't heard too many stories about guys going gay-for-pay to feed their MJ habits.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-11-07 07:35:58 AM
Drugs are bad.

*Pours another shot. Beat my children almost to death again. Rape my wife again. Drive my truck through a couple of neighbor's houses. Barely even make the local news.*
 
2013-11-07 07:38:01 AM

UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.


Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.
 
2013-11-07 07:38:03 AM
I love it when people say they dont want meth legal. It's already legal and you give it to your children.
 
2013-11-07 07:38:09 AM

UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.


If its the public safety hazard that you are worried about, tort law already remedies that situation without requiring you to prohibit individuals from ingesting a substance that you don't like. You aren't allowed to do something that you know has a high likelihood of harming another person. Meth "labs" are explosive in addition to the waste products that leech everywhere. Those properties alone make the production of meth by an unskilled person in a home environment illegal, but does it hurt you or anyone else if Abbott were to produce meth in their secured, isolated, closed loop manufacturing facilities? If not, why should it be illegal; if yes, then could you please explain to me how it harms you?
 
2013-11-07 07:42:39 AM

Generation_D: Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.


So people that are clinically addicted or have an addictive personality are just stupid, white trash losers. Got it.
 
2013-11-07 07:43:05 AM

badhatharry: UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.

Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.


It already is, but manufacturers aren't allowed to produce straight meth, only analogs like methylphenidate and such. They are only allowed to make a set amount of it per year as well. FDA decides how many people with ADD/ADHD get to have medicines that effectively treat our disorder instead of the market responding to the actual demand. It's pretty insane when you think about it. We don't do that with hydrocodone or oxicontine.
 
2013-11-07 07:44:27 AM

Savage Belief: Generation_D: Meth was a club drug for at least 10 years in the late 80s - late 90s. Many used it recreationally, held jobs, were not addicts, moved on in life.

It was only when the mouth breathing inbred trailer trash chronic farkup class got ahold of it did we start to hear about exploding meth labs, meth mouth, "not even once" and all the rest of it.

So to sum up: normal people can use drugs occasionally and not fark up their lives, but once stupid people get ahold of them they make the drug look like it's at fault, when in fact its the person.

So people that are clinically addicted or have an addictive personality are just stupid, white trash losers. Got it.


No, I think you missed the point.  Stupid white trash losers are more likely to be clinically addicted than the rest of the population.
 
2013-11-07 07:46:21 AM

yourdogwantsplacenta: badhatharry: UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.

Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.

It already is, but manufacturers aren't allowed to produce straight meth, only analogs like methylphenidate and such. They are only allowed to make a set amount of it per year as well. FDA decides how many people with ADD/ADHD get to have medicines that effectively treat our disorder instead of the market responding to the actual demand. It's pretty insane when you think about it. We don't do that with hydrocodone or oxicontine.


I can't even buy Sudafed because I refuse to give the DEA my id to purchase it.
 
2013-11-07 07:46:27 AM
people who currently don't take drugs don't not take them because they're illegal though, do they? they're just not up for it

im just trying to think through the implications of legalisation. also the implications of big business / commersalisation / advertising / etc etc getting behind products where there's BIG money to be made. THAT will be an interesting day
 
2013-11-07 07:48:02 AM

yourdogwantsplacenta: badhatharry: UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.

Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.

It already is, but manufacturers aren't allowed to produce straight meth, only analogs like methylphenidate and such. They are only allowed to make a set amount of it per year as well. FDA decides how many people with ADD/ADHD get to have medicines that effectively treat our disorder instead of the market responding to the actual demand. It's pretty insane when you think about it. We don't do that with hydrocodone or oxicontine.


They're probably trying to avoid that level of addiction.
 
2013-11-07 07:53:08 AM
Meth is legally available from a pharmacy with a prescription, and cocaine can be legally used under the right conditions too (as a topical anesthetic, usually on the eye), though it's rare these days.
 
2013-11-07 07:55:33 AM

yourdogwantsplacenta: badhatharry: UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.

Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.

It already is, but manufacturers aren't allowed to produce straight meth, only analogs like methylphenidate and such. They are only allowed to make a set amount of it per year as well. FDA decides how many people with ADD/ADHD get to have medicines that effectively treat our disorder instead of the market responding to the actual demand. It's pretty insane when you think about it. We don't do that with hydrocodone or oxicontine.


http://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm
 
2013-11-07 08:01:08 AM

mike_d85: yourdogwantsplacenta: badhatharry: UNC_Samurai: I'm all for the decriminalization of almost every drug and the legalization of marijuana and several others, but I can live with maintaining the illegality of meth. It's production is a public safety hazard.

Then the production should be regulated. You shouldn't be producing turpentine in your trailer either.

It already is, but manufacturers aren't allowed to produce straight meth, only analogs like methylphenidate and such. They are only allowed to make a set amount of it per year as well. FDA decides how many people with ADD/ADHD get to have medicines that effectively treat our disorder instead of the market responding to the actual demand. It's pretty insane when you think about it. We don't do that with hydrocodone or oxicontine.

They're probably trying to avoid that level of addiction.


Hydrocodone and oxicontine are both widely abused prescription drugs, people often shop around until they find a doctor that will give them a script for it, FDA doesn't limit the manufacture of those products. Methylphenidate and other ADHD meds are limited below market demand and there are frequent shortages of the drugs. I, in the past three months, have had to go to three different pharmacies to fill my son's and my own prescriptions for our meds because of that very situation.
Why do we create artificial scarcity of one drug but not another that has just as many deleterious effects and is much easier to obtain? Limit none, or limit all, anything else is inconsistent and illogical.
 
2013-11-07 08:02:55 AM
This comic made its rounds on the internet not too long ago but since it was referenced in the article and some people ITT seem to be missing the point, I encourage everyone to read this:

http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/

The premise of the article is that when crack or meth users are in a good situation in their lives, they tend not to be addicted.  However, people who are in a bad situation (trailer park in nowhere, GA or a downtrodden ghetto somewhere in LA) are more likely to abuse the drug because of a lack of external entertainment/stimuli/support/opportunities.

I agree with the article in principal but I do not think that legalizing either of those drugs is a good idea.  If only we had some national body to intelligently debate these issues and listen to experts before making a decision....
 
2013-11-07 08:05:33 AM
Out of the several dozen drugs I've taken over the years, meth is not on the list, and I'm never touching coke again; you can just feel the fatigue in the chest. Recipe for an instant panic attack.

/Stimulants farking suck
 
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