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(The Raw Story)   Why are young men increasingly spurning marriage and fatherhood in favor of "Porn, beer, video games with the guys, freedom and fleeting sexual encounters"? Because gays, of course, duh   (rawstory.com) divider line 59
    More: Dumbass, Maggie Gallagher, Human sexual activity, political freedom, same-sex marriages, video games, Terry McAuliffe  
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2971 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Nov 2013 at 5:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-11-06 05:31:48 PM  
7 votes:
More like they want to get married and settle down with a girl, but you can't do that on the modern super low slave wage corporations spit out so just like Japan no one can afford to get married for reals.
2013-11-06 06:10:18 PM  
6 votes:
FTFA: "Without a powerful ideal of masculinity that points men toward marriage and fatherhood, more and more young men are deciding the hard work of becoming marriageable is not worth it"

Wasn't it back in the day that this "masculinity" equaled being a provider?
And you're expecting men today to provide on wages that haven't increased in 30 years, and most men coming out of college won't be buying a house, a car, or running a household, but moving in with the parents or roomates in order to save money for paying off student loans? And if they do happen to find a wife, she'll likely have to work for the same reasons, shiatty wages and education costs, and even then you won't be able to afford a house with what they cost these days.
I have no doubt a large number of men (and women) would jump at the chance for that kind of lifestyle, but it's inaccessible no matter how much effort is put into "becoming marriageable", so why not enjoy yourself instead of stewing in misery. Beer, porn, video games, and your friends are a better way to spend time than a job that does little but pay for the education that qualified you for it, you will not get ahead no matter how hard you work, and your job might get downsized or outsourced with no word or warning.

Your own Republican economic policies are destroying your social policies.
2013-11-06 05:26:28 PM  
5 votes:
Because their own fathers seemed miserable while setting poor examples of what it is to be a husband and a father. Who wants to follow in the footsteps of misery and failure?
2013-11-06 06:48:48 PM  
4 votes:
Oh Maggie Gallagher = the twunt who wants to TELL you about so-called "traditional" marriage.

Except Gallagher is her MAIDEN name. Her married name - that she doesn't use is Srivastav. You never see her and her husband in the same room at any of these gatherings - you'd notice because he'd stand out from most of the audience, given that Srivastav ain't exactly an Irish surname.

So she's basically a hypocrite and a liar; I don't understand why no one in the media isn't calling her on this with every one of her press releases.
2013-11-06 05:53:51 PM  
4 votes:
Maybe it's because the institution of marriage actually only works, or is even desirable for a much smaller percentage of the population than have in the past gotten married because the social pressure to do so is waining in light of the fact that we don't need kids to work on the farm anymore, and our parents having been through terrible marriages themselves aren't pushing as hard to see their kids married.

Kids are great, marriage is great for SOME people, maybe even MOST people, but it's not the only course successful relationships can take. People are finally feeling free to explore those alternatives. Yes, yes, I know this has all been tried before (it's called the 60's) and probably there's no significant difference between now and then except that it's been tried before. This is how things change; progress is made, there's pushback, then things get tried again, then there's pushback, but history tends towards progress. Yes, less people getting married is progress.
2013-11-06 05:18:18 PM  
4 votes:
Because they've grown up in an era of poor discipline, poor parenting, and instant gratification, coupled with the fact that either they've accepted the fact that they will never get laid, or that women will fark them without them having to buy the sex with financial stability.

Next question.
2013-11-06 07:42:25 PM  
3 votes:

optional: Mike Chewbacca: commisioner: Personally, it's the horror stories about divorce, the unfair treatments in the courts and how if I were to get married, I'd likely lose everything I've spent my life building that puts me off marriage. Well that and people telling me I HAVE to be married to be happy. I'm farking happy now how is the threat of losing everything gonna make that better?

Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet that if you go into a marriage assuming it'll fail, it'll fail.

So how do you not assume it will fail if so many of the examples you've seen end up that way? You could keep telling yourself it'll work, but you won't really believe it.


I grew up in an awful household. My parents fought all the time. They almost got divorced when I was in junior high, and I found out years later it was because my mom cheated on my dad. And before you judge my mom, my dad was an asshole and treated my mom like shiat. If ever there were two people who should have gotten a divorce, it was them. Really. I wish my parents had divorced decades ago. Now that my dad has passed, my mom is finally able to enjoy her life and her hobbies. Sure, she misses my dad. We're all thankful he had that 24-day period when he knew he was dying so he could tell my mom over and over again how much he really did love her. He treated her like shiat for 45+ years only to dote on her like a newlywed for the 24 days before he died.

And despite that, despite witnessing my parents terrible marriage that never should have been, I still chose to get married. I didn't get married at 20 like they did, and I didn't get married to the first person I fell in love with. I waited until I'd grown up all the way. I waited until I met someone who had the same interests as me, who wanted the same things out of life, who could appreciate me for who I am and what I do, and who I could appreciate.. I waited until I met the person who became my best friend, whose company I could enjoy every moment of every day for weeks on end. I essentially asked myself, "What would Mom and Dad do if they were in my shoes?" and then I did the exact opposite.

So yeah, you can be bitter and decide that marriage is too hard for you since it was too hard for that couple of there and that other couple over there and that third couple you know. Or, you can decide that if you marry the right person, it's amazing and fulfilling and enlightening rewarding and it makes life worth living and it means home is anywhere your spouse is regardless of what that home may look like.
2013-11-06 06:21:10 PM  
3 votes:
How Maggie Gallagher's college pregnancy made her a single mom, and a traditional marriage zealot

A backgrounder if you don't already know who Maggie Gallagher is.
2013-11-06 05:53:24 PM  
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Because they've grown up in an era of poor discipline, poor parenting, and instant gratification, coupled with the fact that either they've accepted the fact that they will never get laid, or that women will fark them without them having to buy the sex with financial stability.

Next question.


Yup, my poor discipline, poor parenting and love of instant gratification has led me to a life where i have my own place, a good job and, falling into the second of your options, a good sex life without the obligations that historically come with it.  And I'm not being snarky, I agree with your root argument, but I'm happy, too, so at least there's that.
2013-11-06 05:50:04 PM  
3 votes:

themindiswatching: It costs less than $100 to get married at the courthouse.


No, it costs upwards of half a million dollars or more over the next 18 years to raise a kid and even more to send 'em to college.

Don't be obtuse you jackaninny. You know what I meant.
2013-11-07 06:57:25 AM  
2 votes:
Brainsick:

Heh. What are your odds of getting laid by one of your motorcycles tonight or getting a smile out of your paid-for house simply because it loves you?

Not everyone's self-worth is based on sex. And maybe he can just ride his motorcycle over to his lover's paid-for house.
2013-11-06 09:06:57 PM  
2 votes:

Baloo Uriza: I see where she's coming from, but it doesn't say good things about her self esteem.  Reading between the lines, what's she's  reallysaying is "Waaah, guys are figuring out that they don't have to settle for a biatchy, fat sack of crap like me!"


Bingo, more or less. The thing is, the observation also applies to women - no longer do women have to depend on a man to provide personal financial & social stability, either. To me, what we're seeing is a natural, evolutionary process - as individuals are expected to be more self-sufficient, there is less need to pair-bond for mutual survival. Add to that the increased pressure of professional life and the marked increase in materialism, and you get a reluctance to spend time and money on someone other than yourself. To all of that, add increased awareness and acceptance of birth control, and what you get is a generation of men and women with a wider array of options, focused less on "the family" and more on "the individual." They can choose not to marry and still be financially & socially stable. They can choose not to have children and be even more useful to a world already overburdened by population issues.
2013-11-06 07:29:42 PM  
2 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: Mike Chewbacca: Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet that if you go into a marriage assuming it'll fail, it'll fail.

Gotta agree. If you're hesitant about marriage because you're worried about divorce, you're not dating the right girl, and your relationship is in no shape to survive a marriage.

Though I'm still of the opinion it's less fear of divorce and more financial ability and obligation that's leaving men stranded in a college student lifestyle than any fervent desire to remain there.


I think that's a somewhat narrow view.  With society's current divorce rate, someone not recognizing that divorce is at least a possibility is kind of fooling themselves.  Doesn't mean you think it's likely, or that you can see things that would lead to it.  Knowing you love someone is perfectly reasonable, knowing for a fact how you'll feel in 20 years is fortune telling.
2013-11-06 06:52:03 PM  
2 votes:
A big part of it probably is because the current young generation was basically raised to be selfish-raised this way by the same people now complaining about it. However, there are serious economic and social barriers. Unless you can be cheap and find someone else who is also cheap (and also have at least decent-ish jobs), it'll be tough. Plus many people have student loans, high medical expenses, and so forth.

Another fact is just that people are living much longer. Now, this doesn't mean you can just have kids later on-women get menopause, and men start to produce less-than-stellar material after a certain age. However, people are sometimes reluctant to commit themselves to something that might last 70 years. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing things like 10-year/20-year marriage licenses in our lifetimes.

One problem is that people tend to be sold a false bill of goods. They're told: "get married and have kids, you'll be happy!" And sometimes, this is true. I honestly think that responsible and happily married parents are among the most commendable people today.

There's also the risk of putting in so much monetary and emotional investment into a partner only to have them turn out to be a terrible person. This is true of kids, too. S

So there are a lot of factors involved, and a lot of uncertainty.
2013-11-06 06:39:18 PM  
2 votes:
Let's do the math.

If you get married, have some kids, buy a house (get a mortgage), you are supposed to be happy.  Except your wife could suddenly decide that her life is not fullfilling and she divorces you.  She takes the house (you get the mortgage, though), the car (you get the payments), the kids (you will pay child support).  Oh, and good luck getting time with your kids.  She might decide you don't and the family courts rarely do anything if a woman violates the agreement.  If a man did all of these things to his wife for the exact same reason, he would denounced as worse than Hitler.

Or you can stay single.  You can do what the fark you want when you want.  You don't have a wife and kids that suck your wallet dry.  You can tell your boss "no, I'm not working this weekend" because you don't have to suck up because of your family responsibilities.
2013-11-06 05:58:02 PM  
2 votes:
Why can't these people just worry about their own damned relationships and stop pretending like what other people do somehow effects them?

"On every key measure, marriage is weaker," she writes.

Even *if* that were somehow demonstrably true, so farking what? Does this somehow mean YOUR (or my) relationship is somehow in jeopardy? Trust me, your relationship is only in jeopardy from you and your S.O.'s actions.
2013-11-06 05:57:04 PM  
2 votes:
why isn't everyone just like me?

bigoted white & opinionated.

/go to hell lady, go  to hell.
2013-11-06 05:56:45 PM  
2 votes:
Why do we need to have kids and get married and crap? There's NINE BILLON PEOPLE. Is that not enough?
2013-11-06 05:52:14 PM  
2 votes:

lockers: If this thing is real (ignoring the gay baiting explanation) then I am okay with it. Just keep leaving them to us older guys. We will totally ruin them for you so you can have the damaged goods.


Proof that age does not equal wisdom.
2013-11-06 05:47:56 PM  
2 votes:
Was there ever a time in history when pornography, drinking, sports, and companionship (both male and female) were not part of the process?
2013-11-06 05:46:52 PM  
2 votes:
Because family law means that if your marriage fails, you're 2/7ths of a dad AND destroyed financially, where at least if you are a woman, you're destroyed financially, but you still have your kids.

It isn't gay dudes, they always want to play WiiU, and I'm like "ZombiU sucks, I'd rather play GTA V."

Unless we're talking about gay dudes with PCs. I would hang out with them based on our apparent shared love of Civilization, at least based on the small sample size of gay, PC-game playing dudes that I know.

What were we talking about again?
2013-11-06 05:43:26 PM  
2 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Benevolent Misanthrope: Because they've grown up in an era of poor discipline, poor parenting, and instant gratification, coupled with the fact that either they've accepted the fact that they will never get laid, or that women will fark them without them having to buy the sex with financial stability.

Next question.

well yeah. But saying that Gays taught them that hanging out with other guys is more fun then women is more entertaining.

buzz kill.


Sorry.  I suppose I'd be more interested if they asked why young women are increasingly spurning marriage in favor of erotica, wine, naked spa days with the girls, freedom and fleeting but extended sexual encounters.
2013-11-07 03:22:38 PM  
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: FTFA: "Without a powerful ideal of masculinity that points men toward marriage and fatherhood, more and more young men are deciding the hard work of becoming marriageable is not worth it"

Wasn't it back in the day that this "masculinity" equaled being a provider?
And you're expecting men today to provide on wages that haven't increased in 30 years, and most men coming out of college won't be buying a house, a car, or running a household, but moving in with the parents or roomates in order to save money for paying off student loans? And if they do happen to find a wife, she'll likely have to work for the same reasons, shiatty wages and education costs, and even then you won't be able to afford a house with what they cost these days.
I have no doubt a large number of men (and women) would jump at the chance for that kind of lifestyle, but it's inaccessible no matter how much effort is put into "becoming marriageable", so why not enjoy yourself instead of stewing in misery. Beer, porn, video games, and your friends are a better way to spend time than a job that does little but pay for the education that qualified you for it, you will not get ahead no matter how hard you work, and your job might get downsized or outsourced with no word or warning.

Your own Republican economic policies are destroying your social policies.


Exactly! This is what is dooming their "Ward and June Cleaver" picture of the ideal America and they are too blind to see it. No, somehow, it has to be the gays!
2013-11-07 02:30:47 PM  
1 votes:

BHShaman: Because divorce is still biased towards women when children are involved.


FTFY
2013-11-07 10:29:57 AM  
1 votes:
I'm a 30 year old software developer who just put his kid to sleep last night, then proceeded to pour a nice glass of straight rye whiskey, chromecasted some porn into the master bedroom tv (it's really the best use for the device) while I pounded Mrs. Spiderpaz, and then slept like a baby ... in a house that I own, so I'm getting a kick out of this.
2013-11-07 10:02:12 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Since that will never happen, I can assume you'll be childless till the day you die.


The way you make it sound, it's like you think everyone has to validate their lives by living vicariously through children they don't want.  The correct word you're looking for is "childfree."
2013-11-07 06:20:11 AM  
1 votes:

FormlessOne: In other news, social change over the last forty years has broken a number of social compacts and traditions, leaving many members of previous generations confused as to how to proceed.


Follow your instincts, do what makes you happy.  All relationships are transient either by choice or by circumstance.  Treat others like you would want to be treated while you have the opportunity to.  That's my philosophy.
2013-11-07 06:03:44 AM  
1 votes:
Guh.  Traditionalists are so adept at missing the point.  This has nothing to do with a lack of a proper "masculine ideal".  An economic outlook can quite easily explain why men aren't marrying and prefer porn and video games:  Incentives.  Or rather the lack of them.

When a guy is old enough to think about marriage, he's looking at a market filled with women who have probably had at least a handful of partners, at least one of which was more exciting than he is.  For his part, he's likely had sex with at least one woman who was so amazing at it that his future wife can't hope to live up.  Thus putting a handicap on the chances of a successful marriage right from the get go.  Strangely, though he probably won't even think about it, these women will likely expect him to commit to and sacrifice for them just so he can continue to get the very thing they handed out for free to a handful of guys before him.

Meanwhile, he sees that more than half of marriages are ending in divorce leaving many a guy financially ruined, and the one's that don't end in divorce are often "cheaper to keep her" stories where the guy is miserable, doesn't have possession of his own testicles, and basically just does whatever he's told.  This is the perception, anyway, whether or not it's true hardly matters.

Then, even though women are now equal, he discovers that most women still want men to do all of the work of courtship.  So in order to even get to this undesirable end goal, he has to take most of the risks of pursuit and rejection and spending time and money just to get flaked on or shot down because he likely has barely a clue what he's doing when it comes to dating.  Compounding this, he has to compete with "naturals" who seem to magnetically attract women for casual flings just so he can get turned down the majority of the time, as well.

If he makes it through all of this, he now finds that he has to give up on all of his goals of becoming a musician, owning a sweet sports car or motorcycle, and he has no choice but to work a job he'll probably hate because other people need money from him.

Or he can relax, have a great time with his friends, get drunk, have cheap and easy sex, have an easy job that's just good enough to get him the things he wants, and more-or-less complete control over his life without someone telling him what he's obligated to do.

Again, whether or not all of this is true all of the time, or exactly the way I laid it out isn't the point - it's whether or not this is perceived to be true.  And if anyone accuses me of misogyny because what I said isn't flattering to women, I swear to God......Just don't, please, it's getting old.  That word has lost all meaning.

What we're discovering here is just how tenuous the heterosexual bond between men and women really is, and how fragile the pairing systems of the past really were.  Men and women, by default, are not the ideal partners of one another.  One or the other of them will have to sacrifice their ideal state of affairs in order to make things work for the other one.  Both men's desires and women's desires cannot be met at the same time because of scarcity and opportunity costs and just outright mutual exclusivity.  It's amazing that any serious relationships even work at all, really.

Not to belabor the point, but with all of this in mind, what this woman is really saying is, "We need a masculine ideal that encourages men to willingly sacrifice their desires on behalf of womens', in spite of the lack of incentive to do so."  Just dressed up with fancy, traditionalist, flowery language.

tl;dr:  Invest your money in whatever company first manufactures sex robots.
2013-11-07 04:19:38 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Since that will never happen, I can assume you'll be childless till the day you die.


Reasonably secure.  Yes, i'm aware that even people with millions of dollars are not "secure" in some grand universal sense.  Heck, we all might die tomorrow, right?  What i mean is, i don't like the idea of kids until i have more money than i do now, because they cost a lot and i'm not the type to start signing up for food stamps and medicaid like a lot of the struggling parents i know.

What i'm saying is, there's no rush.  I'd rather get my money right, become a well-to-do middle aged twat, and then marry a younger woman to produce my treasured heir or whatnot.  I know a lot of guys who have 2 kids by the time they're 24, and it never seems to end well.
2013-11-07 02:58:57 AM  
1 votes:

Brainsick: blender61:
Heh. What are your odds of getting laid by one of your motorcycles tonight or getting a smile out of your paid-for house simply because it loves you?


I think he has more of a chanced then a married man who's wife isn't in the mood. Which I believe is one of the biggest reason a lot of marriages fail, sexual incompatibility. In the early years it's usually the woman who doesn't want to have sex, or doesn't want to have sex often enough, then as it progresses the man's libido often slows and the woman's raises leaving her high and dry. I know sex isn't the only reason behind marriage, but it's a thing that most people do require to feel fulfilled, and if the only person you are contracted to have sex with won't do it, the only options you have are cheating or being miserable.

/side note, I see why she hates the gays, I think I'd rather have sex with a man then a woman that looks like that.
2013-11-07 01:27:43 AM  
1 votes:
Looks like all the reasons have been pretty much covered.  When people ask why i don't have kids yet, i always say "That's step three.  Step one is finding a reasonably attractive, sane, responsible woman who only wants to have sex with me for the rest of her life.  Step two is having enough money to always feel secure.  I'm still working on those first two steps."

Sometimes i listen to Michael Savage for the Lulz, and he paints this picture of his parents' generation that is supposed to sound bootstrappy, but just sounds horrible instead.  "Our parents were uneducated and mean, and they abandoned every hope and dream they ever had, and worked horrible, dirty, soul-crushing jobs for 80 hours a week, and smoked and drank until they looked twice as old as they were, all to support me and my five siblings!  They were real men and real women, not like these kids today!"

No.  Thanks.

LULZ.
2013-11-07 12:25:13 AM  
1 votes:
Because none of us can make enough money to support a family, thanks to the older generations looting the crap out of the world and sticking us with the bill.
2013-11-07 12:04:09 AM  
1 votes:
In my circle of friends, all late 20s-early 30s, all with college degrees except me, I'm the only one who isn't married or engaged, but no one has kids or intends to ever have them except that one dumb bastard who had two with his first wife. Wages have been stagnant for decades, it seems likely that America's decline will continue indefinitely, and kids are expensive. Why the hell would anyone have children? The only reasons I can think of are poor impulse control and religious mania.
2013-11-06 09:25:00 PM  
1 votes:

FormlessOne: Baloo Uriza: I see where she's coming from, but it doesn't say good things about her self esteem.  Reading between the lines, what's she's  reallysaying is "Waaah, guys are figuring out that they don't have to settle for a biatchy, fat sack of crap like me!"

Bingo, more or less. The thing is, the observation also applies to women - no longer do women have to depend on a man to provide personal financial & social stability, either. To me, what we're seeing is a natural, evolutionary process - as individuals are expected to be more self-sufficient, there is less need to pair-bond for mutual survival. Add to that the increased pressure of professional life and the marked increase in materialism, and you get a reluctance to spend time and money on someone other than yourself. To all of that, add increased awareness and acceptance of birth control, and what you get is a generation of men and women with a wider array of options, focused less on "the family" and more on "the individual." They can choose not to marry and still be financially & socially stable. They can choose not to have children and be even more useful to a world already overburdened by population issues.


Not to mention the politics that comes from 'family.'  That word has been co-opted by a bunch of sexually repressed white supremist Christian fundies who want to control the world.  You know why that pathetic shell of a human being is throwing a hissy fit?  Because she believed she didn't have a choice, and now she believes she can't have the freedoms that the rest of us do, therefore in her tiny mind she has to biatch and whine about it instead of living her life.  Everything that she believes in has made her the sad sack of shiat that she is today, and now she wonders why people don't go for it blindly??

The one flaw that a lot of Americans of every stripe have is that they think the population is completely stupid.  We're not all rocket scientists, granted.  But you don't need to be one to see something that won't work for you.  And the last thing we want to be is some hateful and spiteful Christian fundie bleating about how the world is supposed to be in their tiny little world.  We have more important things to do.  Like live our lives so we don't end up scanning a Bible to find justification to why we hate our lives like this woman here.
2013-11-06 08:36:53 PM  
1 votes:
I can't get legally married to the person of my choosing in this state, but if I could I'm not sure I would.  Marriage is a very sacred vow, it's not something you should take lightly.  There are a lot of considerations and compromises you have to make.  Like figuring out how to get divorced before 36 hours is up, or trying to figure out if your fourth wife is 18 or not, or whether you should leave your husband before he gets sick so that you can collect 50% of his pre-medical payout net worth.
2013-11-06 08:24:31 PM  
1 votes:

Truman Burbank: There's also those who aren't opposed to marriage, but will never even get to discuss it since what few women are in their lives are more concerned with the packaging than the contents. Hell, "fleeting sexual encounters" would be a big upgrade in the social life of a lot of guys.


Your typical online dating ad proves your point.  They usually start out with "I'm a down to earth girl" (whatever the fark that means) "looking to date a regular, honest guy."  Then they go on to list a host of requirements which include "financially stable"  (lots of money) and "good looking" (you better have the abs of Thor).  I've seen fat women profiles insisting on "a hot guy".

/bitter because I'm ugly
2013-11-06 08:05:23 PM  
1 votes:
I know that if I were 24, with $50K of student debt, and working part time at a bar because that was the only job I could afford, I would totally be looking to get married and start a family.
2013-11-06 08:03:33 PM  
1 votes:
Because some of them are starting to figure it out.
Get on the treadmill and become the rat? That doesn't hold much appeal.

no wifes, past or present.
NO KIDS, I made sure of that.
house was paid for at 35.
garage full of motorcycles.
I come and go as I please and spend my money as I see fit.


Why? Because I was smart enough to think it through and realize that getting married and having kids is the best way to fark yourself in the arse.

If you want to win, always play the odds.
2013-11-06 07:50:20 PM  
1 votes:

Last Man on Earth: Sergeant Grumbles: Mike Chewbacca: Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet that if you go into a marriage assuming it'll fail, it'll fail.

Gotta agree. If you're hesitant about marriage because you're worried about divorce, you're not dating the right girl, and your relationship is in no shape to survive a marriage.

Though I'm still of the opinion it's less fear of divorce and more financial ability and obligation that's leaving men stranded in a college student lifestyle than any fervent desire to remain there.

I think that's a somewhat narrow view.  With society's current divorce rate, someone not recognizing that divorce is at least a possibility is kind of fooling themselves.  Doesn't mean you think it's likely, or that you can see things that would lead to it.  Knowing you love someone is perfectly reasonable, knowing for a fact how you'll feel in 20 years is fortune telling.


Don't think of divorce as society failing to uphold America's tradition of long marriages, think of it as Americans now having the freedom to escape bad situations. 50 years ago, women were much more financially dependent on their husbands. Divorce just wasn't a viable option to many women because they didn't work, or worked jobs that didn't pay enough to support themselves or their kids. Meanwhile, men felt trapped (which my dad did, even back in the late 80s) because their wives and kids depended on them to earn the lion's share of the household income. They knew if they divorced their wives, their wives and kids would be put into poverty.

Of course, divorce is still expensive, and so is being a single parent or the ex-husband of a single parent. It's still expensive. It's just not as financially devastating as it was 50 years ago. Not to mention there's much less stigma attached to being divorced than there once was.
2013-11-06 07:49:13 PM  
1 votes:
A lot of women haters and haters of people who are younger in this thread. But the answer is pretty simple. Both men and women are realizing now that they don't have to be married to have sex. And also because the younger generation has seen their parent's generations sky high divorce rate they are putting off marriage and are having more relationships, that include sex, until they find the right person or they feel it is time for them to settle down. This is unlike earlier generations who gave in to the pressure of getting married and having a family early, even if the person wasn't exactly or even close to who they felt they should marry.
2013-11-06 07:28:19 PM  
1 votes:

Mike Chewbacca: commisioner: Personally, it's the horror stories about divorce, the unfair treatments in the courts and how if I were to get married, I'd likely lose everything I've spent my life building that puts me off marriage. Well that and people telling me I HAVE to be married to be happy. I'm farking happy now how is the threat of losing everything gonna make that better?

Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet that if you go into a marriage assuming it'll fail, it'll fail.


The divorce rate is around 50% I believe. Gives me one in two odds. Not great odds for a lifetime commitment. There's also no safety net for me if it does fail. Even properly done pre-nups (lawyers present, no duress, equal splitting of assets) are routinely thrown out.
2013-11-06 07:22:59 PM  
1 votes:
A couple of weeks ago I called the office and said I was taking a week off, hopped on a plane, and went to Boston. Did you know Boston has many bars and loose women? I'm glad I don't have kids at my age (29) and the disposable income to enjoy that fact. Now this week I'm working double shifts and earning tons of overtime and royally screwing my sleep cycle. Which is fine since I'm hitting up a massive party this weekend.

Family and commitment to continuing your genetic lineage is not for everyone.
2013-11-06 07:20:00 PM  
1 votes:
There's also an element of being able to do the latter category on your own time, rather than being compelled to spend your personal time a certain way.  You can go out drinking and play games with the guys when you feel like it, but if you'd rather just hit the couch and watch Daily Show at the end of a long day, you can do that instead, with no pressure to choose one or the other.  With parenthood, your personal life is subsumed, and without kids, there just isn't that much real benefit to formal marriage over a long-term relationship and cohabitation.  She's not entirely wrong that there's been a societal shift, but it has nothing to do with sexual preference, and a lot more with the loss of stigma against the unmarried/childless.
2013-11-06 07:17:53 PM  
1 votes:

Mike Chewbacca: commisioner: Personally, it's the horror stories about divorce, the unfair treatments in the courts and how if I were to get married, I'd likely lose everything I've spent my life building that puts me off marriage. Well that and people telling me I HAVE to be married to be happy. I'm farking happy now how is the threat of losing everything gonna make that better?

Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet that if you go into a marriage assuming it'll fail, it'll fail.


So how do you not assume it will fail if so many of the examples you've seen end up that way? You could keep telling yourself it'll work, but you won't really believe it.
2013-11-06 07:12:30 PM  
1 votes:

EbolaNYC: Gallagher believes men must lead all households, which must consist of a husband, a wife, and children and twinkies and pie and fried chicken and gravy and more gravy?


..young men are deciding the hard work of becoming marriageable is not worth it

Lady, that isn't why no one wants to fark you. You're a fat gross woman who doesn't want to do the hard work to be farkable.


Young men are deciding that meeting the unreasonable expectations of marriage minded women is not worth it.
2013-11-06 07:12:09 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Because they've grown up in an era of poor discipline, poor parenting, and instant gratification, coupled with the fact that either they've accepted the fact that they will never get laid, or that women will fark them without them having to buy the sex with financial stability.

Next question.


Or maybe they grew up in an era where marriages were made and broken in the course of a week and at least 50% end in divorce. They realize that if marriages don't work, they, the men, will probably get screwed financially. They see modern weddings as just an excuse to spend boat loads of money so that your friends can get drunk, rather than a solemn commitment to another human. They see all their predecessors slogging through miserable marriages. Etc, etc. Don't feel that kids are all that great.

But no, it's probably their lack of discipline and poor parenting. Jeez you sound old and grumpy. Am I right?
2013-11-06 07:10:34 PM  
1 votes:
Personally, it's the horror stories about divorce, the unfair treatments in the courts and how if I were to get married, I'd likely lose everything I've spent my life building that puts me off marriage. Well that and people telling me I HAVE to be married to be happy. I'm farking happy now how is the threat of losing everything gonna make that better?
2013-11-06 06:38:28 PM  
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: ladodger34: I was 30 when I got married and my wife was 27. I think 30 was a good age. The porn, beer, and video games sounds like my 20s and I had a great time. I think having some fun before I got married has made me a better husband and dad.

This. I was 32, my wife was 28. We have 1 child, a daughter, she's 11 now.

/my lawn, etc.


There is definitely some truth in that. But I'm married and I still play video games (and RPGs, and board games, and card games) on a very regular basis. It's almost like my spouse is my best friend!
2013-11-06 06:33:56 PM  
1 votes:
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?
2013-11-06 06:30:35 PM  
1 votes:
I think the issue is well, we grew up hearing from our parents how they wish they had gone to school frist, or lived life before getting tied down, or did this or that, etc.
2013-11-06 06:19:15 PM  
1 votes:

thismomentinblackhistory: She mad.


She sounds like one of those people with a meticulously followed "life plan" that can't figure out why that doesn't equate to happiness.
2013-11-06 05:58:30 PM  
1 votes:
Late-stage capitalism.
2013-11-06 05:56:34 PM  
1 votes:

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: FTA:   "Gallagher believes men must lead all households, which must consist of a husband, a wife, and children."

Oh, where to begin?


I would start with "men must", because anything that follows that is almost certainly bullcrap.
2013-11-06 05:55:15 PM  
1 votes:

Smelly McUgly: Because family law means that if your marriage fails, you're 2/7ths of a dad AND destroyed financially, where at least if you are a woman, you're destroyed financially, but you still have your kids.


And if you aren't going to have kids then there are few real advantages to getting married in the first place.
2013-11-06 05:53:37 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: themindiswatching: It costs less than $100 to get married at the courthouse.

No, it costs upwards of half a million dollars or more over the next 18 years to raise a kid and even more to send 'em to college.

Don't be obtuse you jackaninny. You know what I meant.


You're not required to have kids after getting married.
2013-11-06 05:52:59 PM  
1 votes:

We found paradise.

And they hated us for it.

2013-11-06 05:49:37 PM  
1 votes:

themindiswatching: doglover: More like they want to get married and settle down with a girl, but you can't do that on the modern super low slave wage corporations spit out so just like Japan no one can afford to get married for reals.

It costs less than $100 to get married at the courthouse.

/excluding clothing and any reception-type activity the couple wants to hold


Sure. It's the "settle down" part (typically understood to mean a house and kids) which is expensive.
2013-11-06 05:47:58 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: More like they want to get married and settle down with a girl, but you can't do that on the modern super low slave wage corporations spit out so just like Japan no one can afford to get married for reals.


It costs less than $100 to get married at the courthouse.

/excluding clothing and any reception-type activity the couple wants to hold
2013-11-06 05:46:31 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Sorry. I suppose I'd be more interested if they asked why young women are increasingly spurning marriage in favor of erotica, wine, naked spa days with the girls, freedom and fleeting but extended sexual encounters.


go on....
 
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