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(KOB4)   New Mexico man undergoes involuntary anal exam on suspicion of hiding drugs. This is not a repeat from yesterday - but it does involve the same police department and hospital   (kob.com) divider line 231
    More: Asinine, New Mexico, state licensing, traffic stops, drug dog, hiding, exams, nightmares  
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9545 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Nov 2013 at 4:00 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-06 01:02:33 PM
Sweet smell of freedom.
 
2013-11-06 01:09:40 PM
One of those cops must have an enema fetish.

Do they test for that in police school?
 
2013-11-06 01:13:08 PM
Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.
 
2013-11-06 01:14:30 PM
A K-9 named Leo alerted that it sniffed drugs on Eckert's driver's seat.

Again, Leo the K-9 alerts on Young's seat.


NEWSFLASH: Leo's not finding shiat. He's listening to his handler and nothing else. If his handler wants him to bark, the dog will bark.

And I'm guessing that dog barks EVERY DAMN TIME he's called out to a scene.
 
2013-11-06 01:18:57 PM

dr_blasto: Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.


Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.  Maybe we should stop forcing enemas and anal probes on people without their consent, regardless of whether we think they might be hiding drugs.  Maybe we should also be making sure to test our dogs (like this agency was supposed to) and not just assume they'll always be good at their job.
 
2013-11-06 01:24:45 PM

scottydoesntknow: NEWSFLASH: Leo's not finding shiat. He's listening to his handler and nothing else. If his handler wants him to bark, the dog will bark.

And I'm guessing that dog barks EVERY DAMN TIME he's called out to a scene.



FTFA: If you take a look at the dog's certification, the dog did get trained. But his certification to be a drug dog expired in April 2011. K-9s need yearly re-certification courses, and Leo is falling behind.

Yep - dog hasn't been retrained for over 2 yrs. By now the dog is basically the officer's pet and following his cues.
 
2013-11-06 01:25:49 PM

reillan: Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.


While you're right that drug dogs can be very good at finding evidence, when you bring a dog out every time, and he alerts EVERY TIME, it's not the dog doing the work.

They give a false positive anywhere from 50-80% of the time. But the 20% of times that their right makes it all ok, right?
 
2013-11-06 01:28:46 PM

reported: Yep - dog hasn't been retrained for over 2 yrs. By now the dog is basically the officer's pet and following his cues.


That doesn't even matter (well it does for the lawsuit which should be a very easy win).

That dog could've been recertified the day before and he still would've given false positives for both of those guys, because it's not him making the decision.
 
2013-11-06 01:30:11 PM

reillan: Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence


Call me when you find a dog that will ONLY "indicate" when he finds drugs, and at no other time and under no other circumstances
.
Can't be done.  Now if the dog could talk, that would be different.  Until then, it's just a prop for the cop.  The dogs should stick to explosives.
 
2013-11-06 01:30:29 PM

reillan: dr_blasto: Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.

Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.  Maybe we should stop forcing enemas and anal probes on people without their consent, regardless of whether we think they might be hiding drugs.  Maybe we should also be making sure to test our dogs (like this agency was supposed to) and not just assume they'll always be good at their job.


Alternatively, we could just make 14 hours of invasive surgery an integral part of routine traffic stops. You know, either way.

I'll say this: I would be one complete-stop-coming-to-motherf*cker if we did.
 
2013-11-06 01:32:04 PM

scottydoesntknow: reillan: Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.

While you're right that drug dogs can be very good at finding evidence, when you bring a dog out every time, and he alerts EVERY TIME, it's not the dog doing the work.

They give a false positive anywhere from 50-80% of the time. But the 20% of times that their right makes it all ok, right?


Did not realize it was so high.  Doing a little research, it appears that cops might be using unintended signals from the dog (things that the dog would not associate with a positive) as positives for dealing with people they suspect for other reasons.  So yeah, the dog is being a good boy.  The cop is being a pig.  Which I will always assume is the case.
 
2013-11-06 01:32:15 PM
This just got way more expensive for the cops, the department, the doctors and the hospital.

I wonder if it's the same culprits in both cases? I am betting we find more cases.
 
2013-11-06 01:33:30 PM

gilgigamesh: I'll say this: I would be one complete-stop-coming-to-motherf*cker if we did


I am actually in favor of doing this to people that don't use their turn signals.
 
2013-11-06 01:34:12 PM

BizarreMan: This just got way more expensive for the cops, the department, the doctors and the hospital.

I wonder if it's the same culprits in both cases? I am betting we find more cases.


I bet that lawyer is cutting a TV commercial as we speak.
 
2013-11-06 01:36:48 PM

Marcus Aurelius: gilgigamesh: I'll say this: I would be one complete-stop-coming-to-motherf*cker if we did

I am actually in favor of doing this to people that don't use their turn signals.


A-freaking-men.

Of course, that would mean about 97% of my hometown would get an anal probe on a daily basis. But that's fine with me.
 
2013-11-06 01:36:56 PM
All of these arguments about the drug dog alerting or not ignore the fact that we shouldn't be engaged in this "War on Drugs" (TM) in the first place.
 
2013-11-06 01:38:29 PM

gilgigamesh: Marcus Aurelius: gilgigamesh: I'll say this: I would be one complete-stop-coming-to-motherf*cker if we did

I am actually in favor of doing this to people that don't use their turn signals.

A-freaking-men.

Of course, that would mean about 97% of my hometown would get an anal probe on a daily basis. But that's fine with me.


Word would spread pretty fast, I would think.
 
2013-11-06 01:39:35 PM

dj_bigbird: All of these arguments about the drug dog alerting or not ignore the fact that we shouldn't be engaged in this "War on Drugs" (TM) in the first place.


Now that we've gotten to the point where the cops can just steal your money, you wouldn't think they'd care about the drugs any more.
 
2013-11-06 01:47:20 PM

reillan: dr_blasto: Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.

Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.  Maybe we should stop forcing enemas and anal probes on people without their consent, regardless of whether we think they might be hiding drugs.  Maybe we should also be making sure to test our dogs (like this agency was supposed to) and not just assume they'll always be good at their job.


There's no evidence to support belief that drug sniffing dogs are reliable. In fact, some evidence point to them being likely to alert based on whether their handlers think something is up.

Now, there's also the problem that no standard exists regarding the reliability and abilities for drug dogs. Standards are set by either individual agencies or the different companies that train the dogs. So, if a company hired by Police force A says a dog is trained, that dog is trained. If their standards allow for 80% false positives, the dog is still trained and is a qualified drug dog.
 
2013-11-06 01:49:24 PM

Marcus Aurelius: gilgigamesh: Marcus Aurelius: gilgigamesh: I'll say this: I would be one complete-stop-coming-to-motherf*cker if we did

I am actually in favor of doing this to people that don't use their turn signals.

A-freaking-men.

Of course, that would mean about 97% of my hometown would get an anal probe on a daily basis. But that's fine with me.

Word would spread pretty fast, I would think.


Since I live in New Orleans, that could backfire.
 
2013-11-06 01:51:53 PM
That guy should lawyer up pretty quickly if he wants to get in on the sweet, sweet money that's going to come his way.
 
2013-11-06 01:58:12 PM

dr_blasto: reillan: dr_blasto: Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.

Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.  Maybe we should stop forcing enemas and anal probes on people without their consent, regardless of whether we think they might be hiding drugs.  Maybe we should also be making sure to test our dogs (like this agency was supposed to) and not just assume they'll always be good at their job.

There's no evidence to support belief that drug sniffing dogs are reliable. In fact, some evidence point to them being likely to alert based on whether their handlers think something is up.

Now, there's also the problem that no standard exists regarding the reliability and abilities for drug dogs. Standards are set by either individual agencies or the different companies that train the dogs. So, if a company hired by Police force A says a dog is trained, that dog is trained. If their standards allow for 80% false positives, the dog is still trained and is a qualified drug dog.


CSB:

I was flying back to Houston from Paris, and when I arrived I was searching around baggage claim and finally found my bag surrounded in a ring by all its contents (including all my dirty underwear and such), a customs agent rooting through it all, and a German Shepherd who apparently alerted to my bag.

I walked up, asked the agent, "Can I help you?" He looked up and bluntly asked, "Do you have any meat?"

I said, "No.... Why is he hungry?" He was not interested in levity.

He started slamming my stuff back in my suitcase, and since I had some delicate stuff I asked him to stop and said I would do it.

He started off with the dog, which then alerted on the next suitcase it came to.

It's friggin theatre.
 
2013-11-06 01:58:40 PM
Also, in some places  44% is just fine. If you're Hispanic, 27% is also OK. From the previously linked Trib article:

Drug-sniffing dogs can give police probable cause to root through cars by the roadside, but state data show the dogs have been wrong more often than they have been right about whether vehicles contain drugs or paraphernalia.

The dogs are trained to dig or sit when they smell drugs, which triggers automobile searches. But a Tribune analysis of three years of data for suburban departments found that only 44 percent of those alerts by the dogs led to the discovery of drugs or paraphernalia.

For Hispanic drivers, the success rate was just 27 percent.
 
2013-11-06 02:00:27 PM

dr_blasto: Also, in some places  44% is just fine. If you're Hispanic, 27% is also OK. From the previously linked Trib article:

Drug-sniffing dogs can give police probable cause to root through cars by the roadside, but state data show the dogs have been wrong more often than they have been right about whether vehicles contain drugs or paraphernalia.

The dogs are trained to dig or sit when they smell drugs, which triggers automobile searches. But a Tribune analysis of three years of data for suburban departments found that only 44 percent of those alerts by the dogs led to the discovery of drugs or paraphernalia.

For Hispanic drivers, the success rate was just 27 percent.


Jesus, if that isn't proof of racial profiling and how useless drug dogs are....
 
2013-11-06 02:01:29 PM

gilgigamesh: dr_blasto: reillan: dr_blasto: Nice. Maybe it is time we stopped letting drug dogs alert to whatever the cops want them to and require the farking cops to actually have probable cause that comes from actual, verifiable evidence and not some stupid dog.

Actually, drug dogs have been very good at finding evidence.  Maybe we should stop forcing enemas and anal probes on people without their consent, regardless of whether we think they might be hiding drugs.  Maybe we should also be making sure to test our dogs (like this agency was supposed to) and not just assume they'll always be good at their job.

There's no evidence to support belief that drug sniffing dogs are reliable. In fact, some evidence point to them being likely to alert based on whether their handlers think something is up.

Now, there's also the problem that no standard exists regarding the reliability and abilities for drug dogs. Standards are set by either individual agencies or the different companies that train the dogs. So, if a company hired by Police force A says a dog is trained, that dog is trained. If their standards allow for 80% false positives, the dog is still trained and is a qualified drug dog.

CSB:

I was flying back to Houston from Paris, and when I arrived I was searching around baggage claim and finally found my bag surrounded in a ring by all its contents (including all my dirty underwear and such), a customs agent rooting through it all, and a German Shepherd who apparently alerted to my bag.

I walked up, asked the agent, "Can I help you?" He looked up and bluntly asked, "Do you have any meat?"

I said, "No.... Why is he hungry?" He was not interested in levity.

He started slamming my stuff back in my suitcase, and since I had some delicate stuff I asked him to stop and said I would do it.

He started off with the dog, which then alerted on the next suitcase it came to.

It's friggin theatre.


It is obscene. The dogs do nothing more than provide cover for bad actions by authorities. They have no history of being accurate and, in fact, have a significant history of simply following along with their handlers.

If you see that the dogs can get you actually ass-raped by cops or less ethical doctors, it is a terrible thing.
 
2013-11-06 02:09:30 PM

Rincewind53: dr_blasto: Also, in some places  44% is just fine. If you're Hispanic, 27% is also OK. From the previously linked Trib article:

Drug-sniffing dogs can give police probable cause to root through cars by the roadside, but state data show the dogs have been wrong more often than they have been right about whether vehicles contain drugs or paraphernalia.

The dogs are trained to dig or sit when they smell drugs, which triggers automobile searches. But a Tribune analysis of three years of data for suburban departments found that only 44 percent of those alerts by the dogs led to the discovery of drugs or paraphernalia.

For Hispanic drivers, the success rate was just 27 percent.

Jesus, if that isn't proof of racial profiling and how useless drug dogs are....


shiat, it is the handlers' racial profiling. 27% is criminal. Keep in mind, the SCOTUS just ruled that this is all OK and that the animal's reliability isn't all that important; the police don't have to actually document training to use the dog for probable cause to obtain their warrants. For whatever reason, it just looks like everybody assumes these dogs can actually do what people believe they can do and this is a demonstrably false assumption.

Of course, a lot of people assume the cops are right most, if not all, of the time, so why would they questioned a trained dog.
 
2013-11-06 02:10:59 PM
If at first you don't find drugs, probe, probe, probe again.
 
2013-11-06 02:12:40 PM
Just remember everyone:

If you are pulled over, and they call a K-9 unit because you refused a search "even though you have nothing to hide" you might as well cancel the rest of your day's plans, because they're about to make your life (and car) a living hell.
 
2013-11-06 02:14:29 PM

dr_blasto: shiat, it is the handlers' racial profiling. 27% is criminal. Keep in mind, the SCOTUS just ruled that this is all OK and that the animal's reliability isn't all that important; the police don't have to actually document training to use the dog for probable cause to obtain their warrants. For whatever reason, it just looks like everybody assumes these dogs can actually do what people believe they can do and this is a demonstrably false assumption.

Of course, a lot of people assume the cops are right most, if not all, of the time, so why would they questioned a trained dog.


Oh, I agree entirely, and I was saying that it was the handlers' racial profiling here. SCOTUS had its head in the sand in that case.
 
2013-11-06 02:20:47 PM

Rincewind53: dr_blasto: shiat, it is the handlers' racial profiling. 27% is criminal. Keep in mind, the SCOTUS just ruled that this is all OK and that the animal's reliability isn't all that important; the police don't have to actually document training to use the dog for probable cause to obtain their warrants. For whatever reason, it just looks like everybody assumes these dogs can actually do what people believe they can do and this is a demonstrably false assumption.

Of course, a lot of people assume the cops are right most, if not all, of the time, so why would they questioned a trained dog.

Oh, I agree entirely, and I was saying that it was the handlers' racial profiling here. SCOTUS had its head in the sand in that case.


the other dog case, wherein the SCOTUS decided that it wasn't OK for the cops to go lurking about your property with a drug dog, ostensibly to get probable cause to kick your front door in, was split 5-4 with Alito saying if you're smoking dope, you have no reasonable expectation to privacy and the drug dog thing was perfectly fine. Of course, the fact that drug dogs don't appear any better than a blindfolded drunk throwing darts against a wall never entered the conversation.

Seems like getting a bunch of rescue dogs and selling them to the cops might be a good way to make some quick cash. They're trained because I say they're trained and it's none of your business what my training standards are.
 
2013-11-06 02:37:47 PM
You fellas have a lot of growing up to do, I'll tell you that. Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Can you believe these characters? Way out of line. Way out of line. Have a good mind to go to the warden about this. You know what hurts the most is the... the lack of respect. You know? That's what hurts the most. Except for the... Except for the other thing. That hurts the most. But the lack of respect hurts the second most.
 
2013-11-06 02:38:20 PM

scottydoesntknow: Again, Leo the K-9 alerts on Young's seat.

NEWSFLASH: Leo's not finding shiat.


Maybe some butt nuggets or a few stale farts trapped in his shorts, so technically he DID find shiat.
 
2013-11-06 02:42:12 PM

dr_blasto: the other dog case, wherein the SCOTUS decided that it wasn't OK for the cops to go lurking about your property with a drug dog, ostensibly to get probable cause to kick your front door in, was split 5-4 with Alito saying if you're smoking dope, you have no reasonable expectation to privacy and the drug dog thing was perfectly fine. Of course, the fact that drug dogs don't appear any better than a blindfolded drunk throwing darts against a wall never entered the conversation.

Seems like getting a bunch of rescue dogs and selling them to the cops might be a good way to make some quick cash. They're trained because I say they're trained and it's none of your business what my training standards are.


There are days when I wish Alito had even the intellectual honesty of Scalia or Thomas.
 
2013-11-06 02:42:19 PM
Maybe they watched too many Keestering Cops episodes..
 
2013-11-06 02:50:38 PM
Fark Lawyers: How is this not a 4th Amendment violation?  I mean, it would seem to be the very definition of "unreasonable search".

You want to look up my butt and expose me to radiation? Get a warrant.

/site's timing out for me, so I don't know if they actually went that route
 
2013-11-06 02:51:08 PM

timujin: Fark Lawyers: How is this not a 4th Amendment violation?  I mean, it would seem to be the very definition of "unreasonable search".

You want to look up my butt and expose me to radiation? Get a warrant.

/site's timing out for me, so I don't know if they actually went that route


It is.

And he will win a lot of money as a result.
 
2013-11-06 02:52:29 PM

Rincewind53: timujin: Fark Lawyers: How is this not a 4th Amendment violation?  I mean, it would seem to be the very definition of "unreasonable search".

You want to look up my butt and expose me to radiation? Get a warrant.

/site's timing out for me, so I don't know if they actually went that route

It is.

And he will win a lot of money as a result.


I'm guessing the police won't get much of a punishment.

The doctors involved are going to get a reaming though. Probably lose their licenses at the very least.
 
2013-11-06 03:01:30 PM

timujin: You want to look up my butt and expose me to radiation? Get a warrant.


They had a warrant. It was just for the wrong county...
 
2013-11-06 03:13:16 PM
s.mcstatic.com

photo of what police officers ordering unnecessary rectal exams may look like.
 
2013-11-06 03:29:25 PM
A whole lot of cops and doctors are gonna lose a whole bunch of money. And that hospital is gonna lose their gotdamn license.
 
2013-11-06 03:41:05 PM
Those cops are gong to cost those taxpayers some major cash.

/they should be held responsible for every penny
 
2013-11-06 03:42:35 PM

basemetal: Those cops are gong to cost those taxpayers some major cash.

/they should be held responsible for every penny


I'm sure their captain will yell at them for being loose cannons and costing the city money. But then they'll eventually bust a major drug dealer and everything will be forgiven.
 
2013-11-06 03:44:13 PM
We've learned more about that drug dog, Leo, that seems to get it wrong pretty often. He might be getting it wrong because he's not even certified in New Mexico.

And I know it's been decided that stats on these k9s can not be used in a court (I believe I read that somewhere), but WTF...........
 
2013-11-06 04:01:04 PM
I wonder how long it will be before the FBI or Justice Department schedules a visit to New Mexico.
 
2013-11-06 04:03:22 PM

Endive Wombat: I wonder how long it will be before the FBI or Justice Department schedules a visit to New Mexico.


Why? Do they like enemas and colon probings?
 
2013-11-06 04:04:41 PM
Was it remarkable?
 
2013-11-06 04:05:39 PM
Again, Leo the K-9 alerts on Young's seat.

My dog alerts on my seat every time I walk into the house.

 He's a freakin' dog. Sniffing butts is what he does best.
 
2013-11-06 04:06:58 PM
I'll adopt Leo, the cops and the doctors go to prison for rape, the victims get millions, everyone wins.
 
2013-11-06 04:07:52 PM
I found a picture of the police dog..

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-11-06 04:08:02 PM
Real Science show that drug dogs are no more reliable than things like handwriting analysis, Hair sample comparisons and "fingerprint matching"  yet if you tried to challenge the validity of the science behind any of these things in court you simply would not be allowed because if that apple-cart  gets upset its going to shake out that all forensic science except DNA matching (and possibly including the way it is most commonly done) is pure junk science.

In a competent court system he abysmal failure fo the drug dog in this case should be sufficient to bar the use of Dogs to create probable cause in that jurisdiction period.
 
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