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(News Daily)   Barilla to clean up anti-gay image in attempt to put their noodles in gay people   (newsdaily.com) divider line 249
    More: Interesting, Alex Zanardi, gay rights activist, Formula One  
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4770 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2013 at 1:44 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-05 06:17:15 PM
GAH!  it should be how YOU treat.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-11-05 06:22:12 PM

DarkVader: Kuroshin: DarkVader: So you're not putting on the white sheet or lighting up the cross, but you just quietly wish those uppity coloreds would quit making so much fuss about wanting to eat at the same lunch counter?

I honestly believe that there is a large segment of the population that just don't give a shiat either way, and that they are a larger totality than either of the two sides fighting.  That's why the voter turnouts barely crack 50% when it comes to social justice issues.  They just want to live their lives and be left alone.

And while I find it sad, I can't blame them.

I really have a hard time not blaming them.

I'm not gay, I'm not married, and I have no intention of getting married to anyone of either gender.  This issue doesn't directly affect me at all.  But it IS a tremendously important issue for those being deprived of their rights.  And I have a hard time understanding how someone would be able to sit back and say it doesn't matter.


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke
 
2013-11-05 06:36:57 PM

menschenfresser: Oldiron_79: Oldiron has 6 farks to give today. After hearing about barilla and some butthurt queens Oldiron still has half a dozen farks. How many farks did Oldiron give?

Some of us really are"butthurt queens" but not in the sense you (probably) meant that!


Well that was an intentional double entendre(sp?)
 
2013-11-05 06:57:53 PM

DarkVader: Kuroshin: DarkVader: So you're not putting on the white sheet or lighting up the cross, but you just quietly wish those uppity coloreds would quit making so much fuss about wanting to eat at the same lunch counter?

I honestly believe that there is a large segment of the population that just don't give a shiat either way, and that they are a larger totality than either of the two sides fighting.  That's why the voter turnouts barely crack 50% when it comes to social justice issues.  They just want to live their lives and be left alone.

And while I find it sad, I can't blame them.

I really have a hard time not blaming them.

I'm not gay, I'm not married, and I have no intention of getting married to anyone of either gender.  This issue doesn't directly affect me at all.  But it IS a tremendously important issue for those being deprived of their rights.  And I have a hard time understanding how someone would be able to sit back and say it doesn't matter.


Fair enough.  For me, I try to fight the "good fight" and rationally discuss the issues with those who are otherwise unconcerned or even mildly opposed.  But listen, I've been where some of those people are now.  Know how much I cared about equal rights when I was homeless?  About as much as I cared about Liz Taylor. (I'm straight, so that was "zero")  I had my own problems.  When I was very young, I was decidedly anti-gay, due to my rural upbringing.  When I got a little older, I became simply unconcerned.  When I lost everything, I couldn't have given half a shiat.  Once I got my life back on-track, I was back to being simply unconcerned.  Then my circle of friends expanded...  I became close with people who are living the oppression, and I was suddenly very passionate about the subject.  But I have been where that silent majority is, and I can understand why they are silent.  I don't paint them with that broad brush, and instead try to deal with them individually, directly, to get them concerned about the issue.

I don't start casting aspersions until someone steps over the line.  There are many people out there who might join in the fight, if only to cast a single vote, but they absolutely will *never* do so if some 'freedom fighter' casts them in with the bigots.  Telling someone that is just trying to live their life and pay their bills, that they are as guilty of oppression as those who actively oppress others is a surefire way to turn them against you.  They aren't villains, they're just people.
 
2013-11-05 07:29:03 PM
I'm not gay. I don't even pretend to understand it. That being said, I am totally for it. Totally, 100% pro-gay. That, and pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia, pro-murder, pro-suicide, pro-cancer, pro-war, and pro-giant-apocofragginlyptic-meteors, as anything that thins out the herd of complete, utter, hateful douchebags, assholes, dipshiats, idiots, and morons who argue about things like this has to be an awesome thing for the stinking cesspool that humanity has become. I'd kill myself, but I am having a hell of a good time watching the world tear itself apart. Carry on. I'm having a blast!
 
2013-11-05 07:40:59 PM
Just joshin'. Keep on being gay. Flowers and rainbows and stuff. Tee hee.
 
2013-11-05 07:43:36 PM
And noodles. And Joel Osteen.
 
2013-11-05 07:44:51 PM
Free Tibet.
 
2013-11-05 08:36:59 PM

VladTheEmailer: To equate *this* with them is just farking ridiculous and dilutes any sympathy people might have for those affected.


The types of people who would allow their sympathy for others to be "diluted" are the same types of people who are looking for reasons to not have to give a shiat about others in the first place.
 
2013-11-05 08:44:36 PM
This is about as gay as deciding whether or not to eat a chicken sandwich based on whether or not someone decided to boycott a chicken sandwich.

/rooster sandwich
 
2013-11-05 08:56:42 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: VladTheEmailer: To equate *this* with them is just farking ridiculous and dilutes any sympathy people might have for those affected.

The types of people who would allow their sympathy for others to be "diluted" are the same types of people who are looking for reasons to not have to give a shiat about others in the first place.


Not everyone has a strong opinion about this. Should they? Of course. But some don't. And they shouldn't be treated like the enemy. They aren't the enemy and could be swayed to the 'right' side, but not if trivialities are constantly being bickered over instead of the real issues.
 
2013-11-05 09:03:36 PM
I see no point in buying a product from an anti-gay company when there are better alternatives. Whatever "minor demographic" they consider gays to be, people that hate companies that hate gays is a much larger one.
 
2013-11-05 09:04:10 PM

VladTheEmailer: The My Little Pony Killer: VladTheEmailer: To equate *this* with them is just farking ridiculous and dilutes any sympathy people might have for those affected.

The types of people who would allow their sympathy for others to be "diluted" are the same types of people who are looking for reasons to not have to give a shiat about others in the first place.

Not everyone has a strong opinion about this. Should they? Of course. But some don't. And they shouldn't be treated like the enemy. They aren't the enemy and could be swayed to the 'right' side, but not if trivialities are constantly being bickered over instead of the real issues.


Of course they should. They should be shown exactly how evil they are being when they ignore even the slightest hint at a human rights transgression.

Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-11-05 09:13:50 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.


gja: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke


Same thing said differently. But the point is there, and it is clear as crystal.
 
2013-11-05 10:08:39 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Sun Tzu: There's no such thing as a happy homosexual, but their followers and supporters act just like Jesus Freaks when you point that out.

/is that natural
//or conditioned?
B.F.Skinner/]

Think about it before a minute: would you be happy if fast food ford chicken companies and pasta companies didn't cater specifically to you? Didn't think so


Do they cater specifically to me? How do I tell? I mean, I have never really said hey those white people are just like me. Ima buy that shiat right NOW.....
 
2013-11-05 10:11:15 PM

apoptotic: silvervial: apoptotic: The two Barilla ads I've been seeing a lot of lately (they're spamming Hulu) both feature women shopping alone and being spirited out of the frozen foods aisle and taken home by some Italian guy in a convertible, where a chef proceeds to teach them how to heat up Barilla frozen dinners.

They're f*cking creepy.

I think those ads are for Bertoli, but I could be wrong.

As for Barilla, I wrote and told them that they had not only offended gay people, but all the straight people, like myself, a woman who makes the shopping decisions in my traditional family, who support gay people were also offended.

Tiny demographic, my ass!

Ah yes, you're right. That I automatically associated creepy with Barilla probably doesn't bode well though.

*makes mental note that Barilla is homophobic, Bertolli is creepy*


Just try Dreamfields. No homophobia, no creepers, and less digestible carbs than regular pasta.
 
2013-11-05 10:20:42 PM

frepnog: Kuroshin: frepnog: kerrigand: Let us know how that thought works out about 5 or 10 years down the line when you own your own company.
Just remember how well the "Christian right" has done so well with attempting to shove their beliefs upon us.

this is one problem that I DO have with certain blackpeople.

ACCEPT US OR ELSE is never a good plan.

Just wanted to see how it looks when we flip the script.

Wow.  Sounds just as terrible.

this is not about gay rights.  don't act like it is.  this is a pasta company that doesn't want to cater to gay people.  the company stated that if they don't like it they can buy someone else's pasta.  that is the free market at work.

Kuroshin: You are correct though - he is just voicing his company's opinion. It's not necessarily ignorant, just bigoted.

I suppose that is the case.  People have a right to be bigots, I suppose.


It is guido's right to be a bigot. If his company chooses to follow his lead and alienates a demographic because of it, so what? Same for chik-fil-a. Same for any business. I dont see why there is such a ruckus. I no longer buy Barilla or chick fil a, but I still shop at target because-despite the founder/owner's ignorant beliefs, the stores' policies haven't been affected (that I am able to determine). I am all for people outing themselves as assholes....
 
2013-11-05 10:27:19 PM

Hebalo: Kuroshin: frepnog: pgh9fan: What he said was completely ignorant.

why is it ignorant to say you support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising?

"The pasta maker fought boycott calls after chief executive Guido Barilla gave an interview in September in which he said that "the concept of a canonical family remains one of the fundamental values of the business."
Asked if he would include a gay couple in one of his television commercials, he said: "We would not do it because ours is a traditional family".
"If (gay people) like our pasta, they can eat it. If they do not like it, if they do not like what we say, they can eat a different one," he added"

That is not ignorance.  That is refusing to cater to a minor demographicbigotry.

FTFY

You are correct though - he is just voicing his company's opinion.  It's not necessarily ignorant, just bigoted.  It's perfectly fine for him to do so, just as it's perfectly fine for those who disagree with his bigotry to avoid his company's products.

See?  Everybody wins!

Wait, sorry, how is bigoted to say that their advertising will feature traditional families? "Ours is a traditional family". Should he lie and say it's not? I get the general concept, but i fail to see how "we want our ads to be traditional" equals "we hate gays". Because it doesn't say that at all.


IMHO, the statement didn't start out offensive. I believe that when he used the phrase "canonical family" it implied that only that group is 'blessed by god' or whatever in people's minds, which leads to the inevitable gays-are-hell-bound-sinners response from the group. If he had left it at traditional family perhaps the reaction would have been less severe?
 
2013-11-05 11:05:01 PM

frepnog: OMGWHOTHEHELLCARES.jpg

seriously.  who gives a shiat who an Italian pasta maker directs its ads to?  Is that 1-5 percent of the world's population seriously worth catering to?



And yet, here you are, posting in this thread, DESPERATE to have us believe that you don't care.


frepnogBarilla's profits soared to $81 million in 2012.

I think they'll be fine.

I have no problem with gay people....  but seriously.  We don't all have to bend over backwards for you.


It's kinda funny how badly you want us to believe you don't dislike gay people when you obviously do, and you don't care, when, again, you obviously do.  Why are you so intimidated and threatened by this?

/such a scared and angry person.
 
2013-11-05 11:07:08 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: frepnog: OMGWHOTHEHELLCARES.jpg

seriously.  who gives a shiat who an Italian pasta maker directs its ads to?  Is that 1-5 percent of the world's population seriously worth catering to?

Barilla's profits soared to $81 million in 2012.

I think they'll be fine.

I have no problem with gay people....  but seriously.  We don't all have to bend over backwards for you.

3/10.  That should get a few bites.


Maybe, but I doubt he's a troll.  He's been doing this a LONG time in many different threads without ever once dropping the act, if it's an act.  I think he's the real deal.
 
2013-11-05 11:12:06 PM

Slam1263: What are the other qu&&rs upset about this time?


We're not upset.  We're laughing at how you asshats are throwing a temper tantrum because you're losing.

Yes, that's right, queer people are pointing at you, calling you pathetic, and laughing at you.  Enjoy, you big, strong, manly man, enjoy.
 
2013-11-06 12:39:21 AM
But boycotts don't work! Now go watch Ender's Game and eat at Chik-Fil-A!

Don't question me, f*gg*t!
 
2013-11-06 12:50:12 AM

kerrigand:

1. Christian right, attempts to force their beliefs upon us. What do you do...rebel against it. Nothing wrong with that. and make laws that restrict the rights of anyone not white, male, Christian and heterosexual.

2. Gay right, attempts to force their beliefs up us. What do you do. hmmm.....interesting. the same thing happens, yet we're all bigots. have the same rights as everyone else.


Fixed for truth.
 
2013-11-06 02:44:26 AM

gja: The My Little Pony Killer: Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.

gja: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke

Same thing said differently. But the point is there, and it is clear as crystal.


What an utter load of bullshiat. Seriously. Go back and read Kuroshin's posts. They're reasonable, well spoken, and devoid of this platitudinal garbage.
 
2013-11-06 06:38:17 AM

Corn_Fed: The only thing they can do to truly correct the situation is to the very thing the CEO claimed he would never do: put gay couples in their advertising.


FTA: "...a commercial in which Spanish actor Antonio Banderas bakes his own Barilla bread to eat with a group of men."
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-11-06 06:50:42 AM

Hebalo: gja: The My Little Pony Killer: Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.

gja: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke

Same thing said differently. But the point is there, and it is clear as crystal.

What an utter load of bullshiat. Seriously. Go back and read Kuroshin's posts. They're reasonable, well spoken, and devoid of this platitudinal garbage.


Being responsible and socially aware is BS? Good to know where YOUR values lay.
 
2013-11-06 07:03:03 AM

Deedeemarz: apoptotic: silvervial: apoptotic: The two Barilla ads I've been seeing a lot of lately (they're spamming Hulu) both feature women shopping alone and being spirited out of the frozen foods aisle and taken home by some Italian guy in a convertible, where a chef proceeds to teach them how to heat up Barilla frozen dinners.

They're f*cking creepy.

I think those ads are for Bertoli, but I could be wrong.

As for Barilla, I wrote and told them that they had not only offended gay people, but all the straight people, like myself, a woman who makes the shopping decisions in my traditional family, who support gay people were also offended.

Tiny demographic, my ass!

Ah yes, you're right. That I automatically associated creepy with Barilla probably doesn't bode well though.

*makes mental note that Barilla is homophobic, Bertolli is creepy*

Just try Dreamfields. No homophobia, no creepers, and less digestible carbs than regular pasta.


Dreamfields is great, but unfortunately it's hard to get in western Canada and costs 4x more than any other brand. Whenever I happen to be near the one store that I've found here that carries it (a diabetic specialty shop), I do make a point of picking some up.
 
2013-11-06 08:50:53 AM

Kuroshin: I figured that someone who goes around accusing others of being stupid idiots would already know this.


He's just trolling, dude. Ignore him (through the tool or otherwise), stop feeding him, and move on.
 
2013-11-06 10:55:36 AM

Wook: Another gay news article / cause du jour


All the butthurt in this thread is wonderful.  CRY MOAR.
 
2013-11-06 10:58:01 AM

omgrtfa: Everyone should cater to bisexuals they are 80% of the worlds population.


Good idea.  I'm bisexual.  Come vacuum my house tomorrow.

/French maid outfit optional
 
2013-11-06 11:37:43 AM

frepnog: pgh9fan: What he said was completely ignorant.

why is it ignorant to say you support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising?


I can't know for sure what  pgh9fan was thinking, but if I had to guess, I'd wager he meant that homophobia comes from ignorance. Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.  Moreover, it's the kind of homophobia that gets wrapped up in weasel words like "support traditional families" because the speaker isn't honest enough, or brave enough, to just come out and say "I object to homosexuality and oppose equal rights for homosexuals," which is what they really mean.

Philosophically, people who describe homophobia, or other forms of bigotry, as ignorance hearken back to the Socratic concept of evil, which asserts that all evil acts are untimely self-harming, and since a rational person never chooses to harm himself, nobody ever knowingly commits an evil act.  Thus, all evil is essentially ignorance.

This is relevant to the whole "support traditional families" excuse.  Is that merely a convenient (though transparent) lie, said by people who know full well that homosexuality in no way threatens "traditional families", or are there people so ignorant, or deluded, that they actually think "traditional families" really do need to be "defended" from societal acceptance of homosexuality?

It also, I think, stems from Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

But that is the question.  Is homophobia caused by fear (as the name would seem to imply)?  Is it ignorance that drives it?  Is it simply malice and the desire to despise SOME group of people SOMEWHERE, channeled against homosexuals, when it could easily be aimed at Jews or Blacks or Muslims?  A mixture of the three?  Perhaps a different mixture for different people?  There have been attempts to actually study the question scientifically, but the results are so far not very conclusive.
 
2013-11-06 12:14:14 PM

ciberido: Wook: Another gay news article / cause du jour

All the butthurt in this thread is wonderful.  CRY MOAR.


Try harder next time.
 
2013-11-06 12:54:07 PM

gja: Hebalo: gja: The My Little Pony Killer: Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.

gja: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke

Same thing said differently. But the point is there, and it is clear as crystal.

What an utter load of bullshiat. Seriously. Go back and read Kuroshin's posts. They're reasonable, well spoken, and devoid of this platitudinal garbage.

Being responsible and socially aware is BS? Good to know where YOUR values lay.


No, saying that not marching = being complicit in the negative aspect of something is bullshiat. Saying that anyone who didn't march for civil rights is racist or biggoted is bullshiat. I'm perfect capable of agreeing that gay marriage should be legal, and not actively pursuing the cause. Just because I don't carry a sign doesn't make me anti-gay.

That's the bullshiat I'm talking about.
 
2013-11-06 12:56:09 PM

ciberido: Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.


No, it isn't. It in no way states that he fears homosexuals. It it no way implies he hate, despises, or actively seeks the end of homosexuals. It says that he chooses to support a version of a family that he endorses.

This is not black and white.
 
2013-11-06 01:07:02 PM

Hebalo: ciberido: Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.

No, it isn't. It in no way states that he fears homosexuals. It it no way implies he hate, despises, or actively seeks the end of homosexuals. It says that he chooses to support a version of a family that he endorses.

This is not black and white.



If he was stating that he wasn't going to use gay couples because of marketing reasons (i.e. most people that buy his products are straight), then not homophobic.  Instead, it is clearly because of his bigotry, thus homophobic.
 
2013-11-06 01:15:10 PM

Buttknuckle: Hebalo: ciberido: Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.

No, it isn't. It in no way states that he fears homosexuals. It it no way implies he hate, despises, or actively seeks the end of homosexuals. It says that he chooses to support a version of a family that he endorses.

This is not black and white.


If he was stating that he wasn't going to use gay couples because of marketing reasons (i.e. most people that buy his products are straight), then not homophobic.  Instead, it is clearly because of his bigotry, thus homophobic.


Garbage. He said he wants his ads to show traditional families. I believe "Ours is a traditional family" was the quote. He also said he has no issue with gay people buying the pasta, but that he won't be featuring them in his ads.

That doesn't in ANY way equal raging homophobic. He's a business owner who is making a choice. You're welcome to disagree and dislike his choice. I take issue with slapping an "anti-gay" label on him because of that. What if he never has a Chinese person in his ads? RACIST!!!!! Polynesian? RACIST!!!! Eskimo? RACIST!!!!


There a lot of ground between pro-gay and homophobe. I'm saying this guy falls in the middle somewhere, and I refute the concept that simply choosing not to have gay people in HIS ads makes him a homophobe. that's just stupid.
 
2013-11-06 01:33:14 PM

Wook: ciberido: Wook: Another gay news article / cause du jour

All the butthurt in this thread is wonderful.  CRY MOAR.

Try harder next time.


It's not necessary when it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
 
2013-11-06 01:34:17 PM

frepnog: kerrigand: Let us know how that thought works out about 5 or 10 years down the line when you own your own company.
Just remember how well the "Christian right" has done so well with attempting to shove their beliefs upon us.

this is one problem that I DO have with certain gay people.

ACCEPT US OR ELSE is never a good plan.


We'll take that under advisement.  Meanwhile, accept us or else.
 
2013-11-06 01:41:50 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: gja: kerrigand: Kuroshin: kerrigand: MightyPez: kerrigand: Let us know how that thought works out about 5 or 10 years down the line when you own your own company.
Just remember how well the "Christian right" has done so well with attempting to shove their beliefs upon us.
Do you really think doing the same is going to give you a different outcome? No, it's not. It's just going to make people despise you more for it. Well hey, maybe, the two groups should join up and try to do the same thing. After all, it's seemed to work so far.

Oh wait..............

I honestly have no idea what you're getting at with this.

Sure you do. You're just too hardheaded to think beyond yourself.


Are you really trying to equate how someone is born with a religious movement?

I agree - I have no idea what you're trying to say.  Maybe that gays not wanting to be treated as second-class citizens is somehow the same as Christians demanding that everything in society conform to their religious dictates?  Still doesn't parse.

Help me out here.  How does a minority not wanting to be treated as abomination equate with a religion attempting to take over society?

Here's your help since you're too stupid to understand.

1. Christian right, attempts to force their beliefs upon us. What do you do...rebel against it. Nothing wrong with that.

2. Gay right, attempts to force their beliefs up us. What do you do. hmmm.....interesting. the same thing happens, yet we're all bigots.

See an issue with this? No? Well if you don't, then the two of you are the same. No different and if you think you are, you might want to go back to the drawing board with this.

Hope you have asbestos shorts.

He doesn't understand that he's a bigot. Most bigots don't feel that they are bigots. But that doesn't make them not a bigot.


kerrigand is a sock-puppet account.  It's not that he doesn't understand; he's trolling.  If you care, search for other threads he's posted in in which the term "sock-puppet" appears.
 
2013-11-06 02:00:21 PM

Hebalo: DarkVader: frepnog: menschenfresser: Right; I'm sure it actually increased business with the derp crowd. "Traditional values" my ass. Surely they could put "Family" in the name of their organization/publication like most hate groups do.

Why is it hate?

Ahh, right, just claim that hate isn't.  No one will see through that.

It's the same tactic that some of the white supremacists are taking these days, they're claiming that they don't "hate" black people, they just don't want them around.  It's disingenuous, of course.

I have a traditional family. No gay people in it. Do I need to start inviting them over every night for dinner, or risk being called a bigot?


Nah, you've already identified yourself.  Don't worry about it.
 
2013-11-06 02:22:08 PM

ciberido: Hebalo: DarkVader: frepnog: menschenfresser: Right; I'm sure it actually increased business with the derp crowd. "Traditional values" my ass. Surely they could put "Family" in the name of their organization/publication like most hate groups do.

Why is it hate?

Ahh, right, just claim that hate isn't.  No one will see through that.

It's the same tactic that some of the white supremacists are taking these days, they're claiming that they don't "hate" black people, they just don't want them around.  It's disingenuous, of course.

I have a traditional family. No gay people in it. Do I need to start inviting them over every night for dinner, or risk being called a bigot?

Nah, you've already identified yourself.  Don't worry about it.


 I'm not a bigot. I have no issue with gay marriage, or gay people in any way. I would have zero problem if either of my sons were gay.

Don't let that get in the way of your judging me. Go ahead, read back through my posts and find the parts where I'm a bigot.I'll wait.
 
2013-11-06 02:52:16 PM

Hebalo: DarkVader: Hebalo: DarkVader: frepnog: menschenfresser: Right; I'm sure it actually increased business with the derp crowd. "Traditional values" my ass. Surely they could put "Family" in the name of their organization/publication like most hate groups do.

Why is it hate?

Ahh, right, just claim that hate isn't.  No one will see through that.

It's the same tactic that some of the white supremacists are taking these days, they're claiming that they don't "hate" black people, they just don't want them around.  It's disingenuous, of course.

I have a traditional family. No gay people in it. Do I need to start inviting them over every night for dinner, or risk being called a bigot?

You seriously think you're not related to anyone gay?  LOL

Why would you assume instantly that someone in my family is gay?


Well, it depends on how many people are in your family, of course, which in turn depends on how broadly you're defining "family."  Are you including aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc?  It really doesn't take all that many people before the odds are in favor of someone in the group being gay.

Just a quick hypothetical, if there are 14 or more people in your family, and there's a 5% chance for each of them that he or she is gay, that works out to be more likely than not that at least one is.
 
2013-11-06 03:02:42 PM

ciberido: Hebalo: DarkVader: Hebalo: DarkVader: frepnog: menschenfresser: Right; I'm sure it actually increased business with the derp crowd. "Traditional values" my ass. Surely they could put "Family" in the name of their organization/publication like most hate groups do.

Why is it hate?

Ahh, right, just claim that hate isn't.  No one will see through that.

It's the same tactic that some of the white supremacists are taking these days, they're claiming that they don't "hate" black people, they just don't want them around.  It's disingenuous, of course.

I have a traditional family. No gay people in it. Do I need to start inviting them over every night for dinner, or risk being called a bigot?

You seriously think you're not related to anyone gay?  LOL

Why would you assume instantly that someone in my family is gay?

Well, it depends on how many people are in your family, of course, which in turn depends on how broadly you're defining "family."  Are you including aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc?  It really doesn't take all that many people before the odds are in favor of someone in the group being gay.

Just a quick hypothetical, if there are 14 or more people in your family, and there's a 5% chance for each of them that he or she is gay, that works out to be more likely than not that at least one is.


This was covered earlier in the thread.
 
2013-11-06 03:03:10 PM

Hebalo: Buttknuckle: Hebalo: ciberido: Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.

No, it isn't. It in no way states that he fears homosexuals. It it no way implies he hate, despises, or actively seeks the end of homosexuals. It says that he chooses to support a version of a family that he endorses.

This is not black and white.


If he was stating that he wasn't going to use gay couples because of marketing reasons (i.e. most people that buy his products are straight), then not homophobic.  Instead, it is clearly because of his bigotry, thus homophobic.

Garbage. He said he wants his ads to show traditional families. I believe "Ours is a traditional family" was the quote. He also said he has no issue with gay people buying the pasta, but that he won't be featuring them in his ads.

That doesn't in ANY way equal raging homophobic. He's a business owner who is making a choice. You're welcome to disagree and dislike his choice. I take issue with slapping an "anti-gay" label on him because of that. What if he never has a Chinese person in his ads? RACIST!!!!! Polynesian? RACIST!!!! Eskimo? RACIST!!!!


There a lot of ground between pro-gay and homophobe. I'm saying this guy falls in the middle somewhere, and I refute the concept that simply choosing not to have gay people in HIS ads makes him a homophobe. that's just stupid.


Dude, if the said "I will never have a Chinese person in one of my advertisements" then there would be outrage and people would (rightfully so) assume the guy is racist towards the Chinese.

Not having gay people in your ads wouldn't even get noticed, but make a point of telling people that you won't have gay people in your ads is surely going to get noticed and people will label you a homophobe.  He shouldn't be surprised at the backlash.

If you want to white-knight this guy, then go for it.  The rest of us aren't going to jump on your bandwagon.
 
2013-11-06 03:11:12 PM

Hebalo: So the thread calls them "anti-gay". Do you agree with that, or it is more to correct to say they aren't "pro-gay". The assumption seems to be if one isn't advocating gay rights, they're anti-gay. Doesn't sounds right to me.


If you're not with us, you're against us.  That's how it works.  If you don't like it or it seems unfair, too bad.
 
2013-11-06 03:29:18 PM

Hebalo: ciberido: Because "I support traditional families and won't use gay couples in advertising ," ignorant or not, is certainly homophobic.

No, it isn't. It in no way states that he fears homosexuals. It it no way implies he hate, despises, or actively seeks the end of homosexuals. It says that he chooses to support a version of a family that he endorses.


A version that excludes gay couples... Which is the part that makes it homophobic...

If he had instead said, "I support traditional families and won't use interracial couples in advertising", do you not think that would be considered racist by everyone who heard it?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-11-06 03:37:27 PM

Hebalo: gja: Hebalo: gja: The My Little Pony Killer: Keeping your mouth shut is complacency. If you do not want to be lumped in with the bad guys, you'd better damn well open your mouths against them when they pipe up.

gja: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke

Same thing said differently. But the point is there, and it is clear as crystal.

What an utter load of bullshiat. Seriously. Go back and read Kuroshin's posts. They're reasonable, well spoken, and devoid of this platitudinal garbage.

Being responsible and socially aware is BS? Good to know where YOUR values lay.

No, saying that not marching = being complicit in the negative aspect of something is bullshiat. Saying that anyone who didn't march for civil rights is racist or biggoted is bullshiat. I'm perfect capable of agreeing that gay marriage should be legal, and not actively pursuing the cause. Just because I don't carry a sign doesn't make me anti-gay.

That's the bullshiat I'm talking about.


Well, you sure screwed that up. That WASN"T WHAT I SAID AT ALL.
The point of the quote is when we chose to do nothing we have made a choice to turn our back on our fellow man.
Like it or not, that's the way it works in this world.
You don't need to march, carry signs, protest or any of that. But you do need to vote, and to speak up when you see or hear an injustice.
 
2013-11-06 04:43:22 PM

Hebalo: Kope: Hebalo:

So the thread calls them "anti-gay". Do you agree with that, or it is more to correct to say they aren't "pro-gay". The assumption seems to be if one isn't advocating gay rights, they're anti-gay. Doesn't sounds right to me.

When oppression is the reality, any voice that chooses to merely accept the status-quo is a voice that chooses oppression. We're all part of the fight for equal human rights, regardless of if we want to be or not. Accepting oppression is endorsement.

I don't agree.


Of course you don't agree, but it has nothing to do with logic, and everything to do with the sad fact that you're lazy and selfish enough to want to both have your cake and eat it, too.  You want all of the "advantages" of being gay-friendly (not getting criticized by gay folks and other folks who are pro-gay rights, not having to feel bad about yourself for being a bigot) without any of the "disadvantages" (actually having to take a stand on gay rights and possibly face criticism or disapproval for it).

There really is no "neutral" position and trying to pretend there is is merely disingenuous.   Honestly, I'd rather deal with a confirmed homophobe who at least has the courage of their convictions and isn't afraid to say what they really think, consequences be damned.  They may hate me but at least they have the integrity to look me in the eye and say it to my face.
 
2013-11-06 05:19:11 PM
gja: Being responsible and socially aware is BS? Good to know where YOUR values lay.

Hebalo: No, saying that not marching = being complicit in the negative aspect of something is bullshiat. Saying that anyone who didn't march for civil rights is racist or biggoted is bullshiat. I'm perfect capable of agreeing that gay marriage should be legal, and not actively pursuing the cause. Just because I don't carry a sign doesn't make me anti-gay.

That's the bullshiat I'm talking about.


You may not BE a bigot but it's reasonable to ASSUME you are if you won't even lift a finger to make it clear that you aren't one.  Put a rainbow sticker on your car or post "I support gay marriage" to Facebook or something like that.  Presto!  You've chosen a side.  How much effort did that take?

The thing is, you can say you don't care, but it's pretty damn obvious that you DO care since you keep posting in this thread (along with God-only-knows how much time you've spent in real-life arguing about how you're not a homophobe).  You're clearly willing to invest time and effort into arguing that it's "unfair" of us to criticize you.  So "I don't want to bother" or "I don't have time" seem pretty feeble excuses at this point.

Ask yourself: why are you fighting this so hard when it would be so much easier to simply come out in support of gay rights?
 
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