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(Deadspin)   Richie Incognito's dad is busy defending him, and attacking Martin, on message boards using the login "idrd1994". Wait, Deadspin does investigative journalism now?   (deadspin.com) divider line 95
    More: Dumbass, Richie Incognito, Richie Jr., Mike Pouncey, Shea Stadium  
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1663 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Nov 2013 at 11:03 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-05 12:36:08 PM

RalphW: You can question if Belichick really put a stop to it, but if nothing else it proves this isn't just a Miami problem. Most likely league-wide


Given the size of the tabs, the IRS is going to have a field day.
 
2013-11-05 12:49:05 PM
Just wanted to reiterate that Deadspin is doing a hell of a lot more investigative journalism than anyone else is, including ESPN and CNNSI.
 
2013-11-05 12:49:44 PM

Gosling: Honestly. The attitude of fellow NFL personnel that Martin should have just manned up is not an indictment of Martin. It is an indictment of the NFL and another reason to toss on the pile of what parents ought to consider before they let their kids sign up. You're fine with your kid being blackmailed out of tens of thousands of dollars by racist assholes, sure, sign him up for football.


Still less harmful to a kid than letting him take PoliSci classes
 
2013-11-05 12:58:23 PM
We're due for idrd1994's "LEAVE RICHIE ALONE!" YouTube video, aren't we?
 
2013-11-05 12:59:49 PM
This is the weirdest goddamm story.
 
2013-11-05 01:05:35 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Just wanted to reiterate that Deadspin is doing a hell of a lot more investigative journalism than anyone else is, including ESPN and CNNSI.


When a fire is lit under their ass, they do damn good journalism. Most of their posts are basically "HEHE LOOK AT THIS STUPID GIF" though so I can see why people don't realize that.
 
2013-11-05 01:18:23 PM
Our family knows a kid who was up and down a few times this year with a major league team. In July, he got his first MLB win and a few of the vets took him out. Well, he really isn't a kid anymore, but he is my little sister's age so he will always be a kid to me.

They took him out to dinner and went crazy, ordered a bottle of wine that cost a couple grand and then took him out to a club where the vet told the manager of the club "we want the whole place tonight" and left his credit card.

He still had to do all of the rookie dress up crap, but the older guys treated him right when they needed to. And these are dudes who are household names and have been very successful.

As I said before, the hazing stuff in the NFL got really bad when the rookies were getting those crazy 1st round bonuses.

Top MLB guys got crazy bonuses too, but almost all of them still had to progress through the system and rarely made more than the vets.
 
2013-11-05 01:18:43 PM

bluenote13: bdub77: It's so weird, a lot of people are attacking Martin for being a 'snitch' and saying he should man up. Whether trolling or not, who knows.

I know football is football, and I've never played the game, but it seems a little odd to me that any type of adult would act like this, even guys in their 20s. For better or worse, the NFL is a professional workplace environment, if someone was bullying me at work I would most definitely get management involved.

Then again the NFL seems to be home to all types of criminals. I can't imagine the physical and mental abuse 90% of these guys probably went through starting when they were kids. And nowadays you've got parents redshirting them so they will be bigger than others their age. What's the average age of a college freshman football player, 21?

IMO Martin handled it very well, he can probably use the money he gets from suing the NFL to do something he wants to do like go to law school.

Furthermore, it's such an odd attitude to have about rookies,I mean hell the rookies both earn the least AND are more likely to burn out early. You're gonna make them drop 15k on a dinner when they should be socking that cash away in case their career fizzles out?

Yet another reason I don't watch or support the NFL. Bunch of brain damaged abused a**holes.

Well, hazing takes place everywhere in every sport.  It is tradition in MLB that at some point during the season the rookies are going to have to wear some ridiculous outfit to the airpport for a road trip, up to and including dressing like women.  That is hazing.  NHL rookies pay for a dinner for the team ONCE during the season.  That is an accepted practice and all the rookies pay for it, not just one.  What Ingonito, and others, did was abuse and workplace harrassment.  They extorted 15 THOUSAND dollars for a trip the kid didn't to go on because he had already endured a year of abuse from these roided up assholes.


It goes a little farther than that in the NHL. Specifically, there's a high likelihood that they've all had less-than-consensual sex with each other:
Players can join those elite junior teams at 16 years old. And it's what happens to them while there that concerns Laura Robinson, a Canadian freelance journalist who's written extensively on sexual violence and hockey.
"Their understanding of sex often comes from the degrading and humiliating initiations," Robinson said. "They get to be the girl and they have all kinds of sickening stuff done to them."
 
2013-11-05 01:21:15 PM

Gosling: You want me to handle it? Very well. But you're not going to like the manner in which I do so.


This is what many people miss when they say "man up and stand up to the bully." You see, one victimized by a bully isn't likely to take a reasoned and measured response. No, all that hurt and frustration is going to come flooding back and the bully might well get ground into paste. There's the potential for real injury, possibly debilitating, possibly even lethal.

If Martin had retaliated against Incognito and done some real damage, he'd now be the bad guy. And likely up on charges. It's a no-win situation for the bully's victim and the bully knows it- they get off on it. They know that their victims, if they go to any authority figure, is going to be bullied by society for being wussy. If the victims stand up then they may be victimized by those same authority figures for being violent. The bully doesn't care if his conduct comes to light... they are usually good and cruising along just beneath the level where real and heavy punishment would come into play, but retaliation from those they victimize would probably exceed that level.

I've been bullied, I've dealt with bullies. I've found that bullies tend not to get the message unless they get it back at X+1 level (where X is whatever they've been doing). Decent people tend to fear authority crackdowns if they get that far out of line, and that gives bullies room to operate. So Martin reacted in a way to bring authority attention without getting out of line, and what happens? Other dipshiats pile on him to finish off Incognito's work. Anybody calling Martin a pussy really ought to think about if they REALLY want to be on the same side as a sociopath like Incognito.
 
2013-11-05 01:35:32 PM

DamnYankees: This is the weirdest goddamm story.


For NFL yea.

I still think Manti Teo's fake girlfriend is one of the weirdest of all time.
 
2013-11-05 01:40:17 PM

scottydoesntknow: For NFL yea.

I still think Manti Teo's fake girlfriend is one of the weirdest of all time.


I'd say the rape victim that Notre Dame shut up for good was afar more interesting story, but it went against the "NOTRE DAME'S BACK TO ITS GLORY DAYS!!!!" narrative.
 
2013-11-05 01:44:45 PM

akula: Gosling: You want me to handle it? Very well. But you're not going to like the manner in which I do so.

This is what many people miss when they say "man up and stand up to the bully." You see, one victimized by a bully isn't likely to take a reasoned and measured response. No, all that hurt and frustration is going to come flooding back and the bully might well get ground into paste. There's the potential for real injury, possibly debilitating, possibly even lethal.

If Martin had retaliated against Incognito and done some real damage, he'd now be the bad guy. And likely up on charges. It's a no-win situation for the bully's victim and the bully knows it- they get off on it. They know that their victims, if they go to any authority figure, is going to be bullied by society for being wussy. If the victims stand up then they may be victimized by those same authority figures for being violent. The bully doesn't care if his conduct comes to light... they are usually good and cruising along just beneath the level where real and heavy punishment would come into play, but retaliation from those they victimize would probably exceed that level.

I've been bullied, I've dealt with bullies. I've found that bullies tend not to get the message unless they get it back at X+1 level (where X is whatever they've been doing). Decent people tend to fear authority crackdowns if they get that far out of line, and that gives bullies room to operate. So Martin reacted in a way to bring authority attention without getting out of line, and what happens? Other dipshiats pile on him to finish off Incognito's work. Anybody calling Martin a pussy really ought to think about if they REALLY want to be on the same side as a sociopath like Incognito.


Normally, I would probably be the kind of guy to handle things like Martin did. However, I also know I'm not perfect, and I also know I don't like to spend too much money, and if I were the same person as I am now except with enough of a mean streak and enough athletic ability to get into the NFL in the first place, I'd likely be the kind of guy to straight-up throttle Incognito for costing me so much and not really consider or realize the consequences until about 10 minutes after I'd already reduced Incognito to a quivering mass on the ground.
 
2013-11-05 01:50:30 PM

Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: bdub77: I know football is football, and I've never played the game, but it seems a little odd to me that any type of adult would act like this, even guys in their 20s.

Football is the ultimate alpha male sport. It's for the toughest and strongest, both physically and mentally. These men live by a warrior's code, something you probably cannot begin to understand.

You keep trying that line in all the Incognito threads.  You get any bites yet?


Heh.  To be serious for a moment, this looks like Incognito got on the leadership council and abused that to umpteenth ends.

How the hell did someone that deranged end up in that type of post?
 
2013-11-05 01:52:21 PM
I'd never make it in the NFL. I mean besides being 5'7", 48, and slow as christmas. I mean because if I did get drafted and some meathead asked me to pick up a $10,000 bar bill the first three words out of my mouth would be "go fark yourself." I honestly don't get it. I enjoy a fine meal as much as the next guy and I pick up more than my share of dinner checks. What I don't get is the repeated desire to have five-figure nights out. It's absurd and frankly I don't think I'd do it that way if the money I had access to was literally unlimited.
 
2013-11-05 01:56:11 PM

JohnBigBootay: I'd never make it in the NFL. I mean besides being 5'7", 48, and slow as christmas. I mean because if I did get drafted and some meathead asked me to pick up a $10,000 bar bill the first three words out of my mouth would be "go fark yourself." I honestly don't get it. I enjoy a fine meal as much as the next guy and I pick up more than my share of dinner checks. What I don't get is the repeated desire to have five-figure nights out. It's absurd and frankly I don't think I'd do it that way if the money I had access to was literally unlimited.


It's kinda like the adolescent foolishness in Lord of the Flies

jencarey.files.wordpress.com
except with less maturity
 
2013-11-05 02:02:20 PM

wademh: It's kinda like the adolescent foolishness in Lord of the Flies


You know, I think you take the majority of those guys one on one and you'd have a good percentage of regular old decent guys. Huge maybe, but decent. But as a group the mob mentality turns them all into a bunch of morons. Whether or not they distinguished themselves academically - and certainly many of them were actually good students - they've all been exposed to lots of good role models and read article after article and seen news story after news story about idiot broke former NFL players. Does it sink in? Apparently not.
 
2013-11-05 02:03:18 PM

Rwa2play: To be serious for a moment, this looks like Incognito got on the leadership council and abused that to umpteenth ends.

How the hell did someone that deranged end up in that type of post?


Well, sometimes fark-ups of different stripes respond really well to random acts of trust and faith being placed upon them with any sort of promotion or special consideration. It very well may have been an intentionally daring (or even cynical) move by the Dolphins to put him on the council as a "if this motherfarker doesn't grow up NOW, he never will" effort.

But, I have a feeling any professional team with a "leadership council" is just hot air PR where basically anyone who is a "veteran" and "decent enough at what they do" just gets automatically selected.
 
2013-11-05 02:42:14 PM

tommyl66: Slow To Return: mikaloyd: Thats good because hes totally not a helpless woman. He's a hero.

Nate Newton was on ESPN yesterday talking about how Martin should have manned up to Incognito.  He was shutting everyone else down with "Let me tell you what Martin should have done!  And I should know, I used to play football and you didn't!"

And that got me thinking, "Hey, I'm married.  That, of course, makes me an expert on domestic abuse situations!"

In Nate's defense he was so farking high, he had no idea what was going on.


One of the ex-NFL guys came out and said what others were thinking "they are lucky Martin didn't come to work with a gun in his hand" and go after Incognito or worse.

It's kind of funny and not at all surprising that the guys who are talking about being bullied and standing up for Martin in the media are the one's people consider the more intelligent 'introspective' guys in the league.  And not at all surprising it is guys like Newton claiming he should have 'manned up' and taken care of it.

I wonder how much of this goes back to some old rumors that Martin might be gay?  Say what you want about the level of acceptance in sports, but the NFL will be far behind the other professional sports when it comes to accepting an openly homosexual player.  Kerry Rhodes is out of work because there are rumors he is gay, even though he is probably better than 50% of the safeties in the league right now.
 
2013-11-05 02:50:20 PM

Theaetetus: It goes a little farther than that in the NHL. Specifically, there's a high likelihood that they've all had less-than-consensual sex with each other:
Players can join those elite junior teams at 16 years old. And it's what happens to them while there that concerns Laura Robinson, a Canadian freelance journalist who's written extensively on sexual violence and hockey.
"Their understanding of sex often comes from the degrading and humiliating initiations," Robinson said. "They get to be the girl and they have all kinds of sickening stuff done to them."


Yeah, I'd be a little wary of quoting anything from Laura Robinson. There are a lot of questions about her reporting right now, with the John Furlong lawsuit hanging over her head among issues with her other articles on this topic...
 
2013-11-05 03:45:52 PM

Five Tails of Fury: Theaetetus: It goes a little farther than that in the NHL. Specifically, there's a high likelihood that they've all had less-than-consensual sex with each other:
Players can join those elite junior teams at 16 years old. And it's what happens to them while there that concerns Laura Robinson, a Canadian freelance journalist who's written extensively on sexual violence and hockey.
"Their understanding of sex often comes from the degrading and humiliating initiations," Robinson said. "They get to be the girl and they have all kinds of sickening stuff done to them."

Yeah, I'd be a little wary of quoting anything from Laura Robinson. There are a lot of questions about her reporting right now, with the John Furlong lawsuit hanging over her head among issues with her other articles on this topic...


I haven't seen or heard of any issues related to her report on hockey. Even if it turns out that something's odd with the Furlong thing (though, with three separate lawsuits filed against him, it's significantly less likely), that doesn't travel back in time to undo her earlier work.
 
2013-11-05 03:51:06 PM

Theaetetus: It goes a little farther than that in the NHL. Specifically, there's a high likelihood that they've all had less-than-consensual sex with each other:
Players can join those elite junior teams at 16 years old. And it's what happens to them while there that concerns Laura Robinson, a Canadian freelance journalist who's written extensively on sexual violence and hockey.
"Their understanding of sex often comes from the degrading and humiliating initiations," Robinson said. "They get to be the girl and they have all kinds of sickening stuff done to them."


That explains PK Subban's fight technique
 
2013-11-05 04:01:15 PM
For a while I thought Incognito was just a nickname. But cripes what a weapons grade ahole!
 
2013-11-05 04:04:04 PM

JohnBigBootay: I'd never make it in the NFL. I mean besides being 5'7", 48, and slow as christmas. I mean because if I did get drafted and some meathead asked me to pick up a $10,000 bar bill the first three words out of my mouth would be "go fark yourself." I honestly don't get it. I enjoy a fine meal as much as the next guy and I pick up more than my share of dinner checks. What I don't get is the repeated desire to have five-figure nights out. It's absurd and frankly I don't think I'd do it that way if the money I had access to was literally unlimited.


I was listening to Mike & Mike and Golic was talking about how when he was in the league the rookies would pick up breakfast on travel days for their position group (doughnuts and coffee, nothing crazy) and then the pre-season big meal and post-season big meal would be split among the rookies in accordance with their salary (1st round pick would pay way more than a 5th rounder).

Sounds fine to me. Also sounds like the situation in Miami went way beyond that.
 
2013-11-05 04:23:41 PM

Shame Us: JohnBigBootay: I'd never make it in the NFL. I mean besides being 5'7", 48, and slow as christmas. I mean because if I did get drafted and some meathead asked me to pick up a $10,000 bar bill the first three words out of my mouth would be "go fark yourself." I honestly don't get it. I enjoy a fine meal as much as the next guy and I pick up more than my share of dinner checks. What I don't get is the repeated desire to have five-figure nights out. It's absurd and frankly I don't think I'd do it that way if the money I had access to was literally unlimited.

I was listening to Mike & Mike and Golic was talking about how when he was in the league the rookies would pick up breakfast on travel days for their position group (doughnuts and coffee, nothing crazy) and then the pre-season big meal and post-season big meal would be split among the rookies in accordance with their salary (1st round pick would pay way more than a 5th rounder).

Sounds fine to me. Also sounds like the situation in Miami went way beyond that.


Yep..telling a guy, who you spent a year ragging on and abusing, that he needs to pony up 15k for a trip to Vegas is beyond the normal stuff.  The story that one of the rookie FA guys is broke, if it's true, is ridiculous.  Especially since Ingognito is making a couple million a year.
 
2013-11-05 04:35:34 PM

Shame Us: JohnBigBootay: I'd never make it in the NFL. I mean besides being 5'7", 48, and slow as christmas. I mean because if I did get drafted and some meathead asked me to pick up a $10,000 bar bill the first three words out of my mouth would be "go fark yourself." I honestly don't get it. I enjoy a fine meal as much as the next guy and I pick up more than my share of dinner checks. What I don't get is the repeated desire to have five-figure nights out. It's absurd and frankly I don't think I'd do it that way if the money I had access to was literally unlimited.

I was listening to Mike & Mike and Golic was talking about how when he was in the league the rookies would pick up breakfast on travel days for their position group (doughnuts and coffee, nothing crazy) and then the pre-season big meal and post-season big meal would be split among the rookies in accordance with their salary (1st round pick would pay way more than a 5th rounder).

Sounds fine to me. Also sounds like the situation in Miami went way beyond that.


Sean Salisbury kind of said the same thing on a local show yesterday. He said through out the season, you might have to pick up donuts and coffee for your group once a season.

And that the whole take out the vets to dinner was a new thing. A Qb might take out his line, receivers, and rbs but the defense wasn't involved.
 
2013-11-05 04:59:13 PM
Come on doubled, please tell us how the warrior code relates to a dude who has played on teams with a combined record of 37-64.

Seems like he is a pretty shiatty warrior to me.
 
2013-11-05 05:15:13 PM

ArkPanda: "According to ESPN, Incognito's alleged intimidation of Martin included leaving him a voice message with a racial slur as well as threats to kill him and assault his mother. "
I think it's time for the Miami PD to get involved.


The threats to kill him and his mom seemed about as legitimate as when someone jokes about banging someone's mom meaning that it was a threat to rape her.

Shame Us: I was listening to Mike & Mike and Golic was talking about how when he was in the league the rookies would pick up breakfast on travel days for their position group (doughnuts and coffee, nothing crazy) and then the pre-season big meal and post-season big meal would be split among the rookies in accordance with their salary (1st round pick would pay way more than a 5th rounder).

Sounds fine to me. Also sounds like the situation in Miami went way beyond that.


I dunno. The other younger guys said that the meal tab was split up.

Gosling: Normally, I would probably be the kind of guy to handle things like Martin did.


Quit the team, go seek mental health counseling, then leak statements and accusations of bullying through "sources"?
 
2013-11-05 05:17:24 PM

ladodger34: And that the whole take out the vets to dinner was a new thing.


Not from anyone else I've heard.

Of course, it made a hell of a lot more sense before the new salary cap, when sh*tty rookies were making more than Hall of Famers. Remember when Sam Bradford was the highest-paid QB in the league before ever playing a single game? I definitely don't have a problem with rookies having to pay for meals in those situations.
 
2013-11-05 06:01:37 PM

IAmRight: Shame Us: I was listening to Mike & Mike and Golic was talking about how when he was in the league the rookies would pick up breakfast on travel days for their position group (doughnuts and coffee, nothing crazy) and then the pre-season big meal and post-season big meal would be split among the rookies in accordance with their salary (1st round pick would pay way more than a 5th rounder).

Sounds fine to me. Also sounds like the situation in Miami went way beyond that.

I dunno. The other younger guys said that the meal tab was split up.


Golic also said, though eh wouldn't name a source or anything, that he had been told that the $15k was related to MArtin refusing to pay his share of the team meal. That it had been a kangaroo court type fine. As is usual with those types of fines from internal kangaroo courts, they usually go toward a party or trip or something for the position group. So while the $15k may have gone toward a trip to Vegas for the O-Line, it may not have been a situation where they said "Hey rook, pay for our trip or else."

I know that here in Seattle, the Legion of Boom took a group trip to Vegas after last season. I also kow that they dole out some fines for things like not taking an INT to the house when it's deemed that you should have. Not crazy to think that the $500 or whatever the Browner was fined for falling down at the one on a INT return against AZ would go toward that trip at the end of the season...even if Browner skips the festivities for whatever reason, as we're told Martin did on the Miami O-Line's trip to Vegas.
 
2013-11-05 06:10:48 PM

IAmRight: ArkPanda: "According to ESPN, Incognito's alleged intimidation of Martin included leaving him a voice message with a racial slur as well as threats to kill him and assault his mother. "
I think it's time for the Miami PD to get involved.

The threats to kill him and his mom seemed about as legitimate as when someone jokes about banging someone's mom meaning that it was a threat to rape her.


Why even have police departments when armchair investigators like yourself are ready to step up?
 
2013-11-05 06:14:17 PM

Shame Us: Golic also said, though eh wouldn't name a source or anything, that he had been told that the $15k was related to MArtin refusing to pay his share of the team meal. That it had been a kangaroo court type fine. As is usual with those types of fines from internal kangaroo courts, they usually go toward a party or trip or something for the position group. So while the $15k may have gone toward a trip to Vegas for the O-Line, it may not have been a situation where they said "Hey rook, pay for our trip or else."


That's the other thing about this. Again, we all know that Incognito's an asshole. But it doesn't really seem like the non-voicemail parts of the accusations are correct. (And the voicemail seems over-the-top, to the point that calling it "threatened his family" is ridiculous. I suppose people would rather write that than "he said he wanted to defecate in his mouth!")

/which admittedly, is pretty disturbing to an outsider
//but in the military we "threatened" to do a lot of stuff that there was obviously no intent to do
///I suppose that the culture definitely needs to change when you actually have to take classes on your way out to try to re-train your vocabulary
////in the real world, if someone asks you to do something, and you say "Kill" every single time, they get scared of you.
 
2013-11-05 06:16:29 PM

regindyn: Why even have police departments when armchair investigators like yourself are ready to step up?


If you want to get the police involved every time someone talks about "your mom," the cops aren't going to have any damn time to do anything else.
 
2013-11-05 06:25:35 PM

IAmRight: ladodger34: And that the whole take out the vets to dinner was a new thing.

Not from anyone else I've heard.

Of course, it made a hell of a lot more sense before the new salary cap, when sh*tty rookies were making more than Hall of Famers. Remember when Sam Bradford was the highest-paid QB in the league before ever playing a single game? I definitely don't have a problem with rookies having to pay for meals in those situations.


That's fine if the o-line tells Bradford.."hey rookie, why don't buy us dinner this week'.  It is a totally different thing when someone goes in to Bradford's wallet, takes his CC and charged 20k without telling him - like Seau did to Rivers.

As far as Martin, we don't know but 15k as 'part of the meal' seems a bit ridiculous.  Seems to be, from other reports, that the guys in Miami might have been using the rookies every week to get free meals.  Was it the guy in Miami who retweeted the pics from the Miami players that had comments like 'everything tastes better when a rookie pays for it'?  This does not seem like an isolated incident nor did it appear to stop after Martin was no longer a rookie.

The donuts, sandwiches, etc thing is pretty common...what Incognito and others did was well beyond normal.
 
2013-11-05 06:26:42 PM

IAmRight: Shame Us: Golic also said, though eh wouldn't name a source or anything, that he had been told that the $15k was related to MArtin refusing to pay his share of the team meal. That it had been a kangaroo court type fine. As is usual with those types of fines from internal kangaroo courts, they usually go toward a party or trip or something for the position group. So while the $15k may have gone toward a trip to Vegas for the O-Line, it may not have been a situation where they said "Hey rook, pay for our trip or else."

That's the other thing about this. Again, we all know that Incognito's an asshole. But it doesn't really seem like the non-voicemail parts of the accusations are correct. (And the voicemail seems over-the-top, to the point that calling it "threatened his family" is ridiculous. I suppose people would rather write that than "he said he wanted to defecate in his mouth!")

/which admittedly, is pretty disturbing to an outsider
//but in the military we "threatened" to do a lot of stuff that there was obviously no intent to do
///I suppose that the culture definitely needs to change when you actually have to take classes on your way out to try to re-train your vocabulary
////in the real world, if someone asks you to do something, and you say "Kill" every single time, they get scared of you.


I think another major issue is that from what we understand of Incognito, good natured ribbing isn't really his forte. He's a bully and an asshole and he found a guy who was maybe too sensitive and maybe suffering from some mental health/depression problems and laid into him until he broke him. Does it rise to the level of a legal issue? Probably not, but if I'm the Dolphins, Richie is done. He's hurting the team. Period. I don't even think you need to suspend him officially, just inactivate him like the Eagles did with TO. Unless, maybe there's a financial incentive to have him suspended by the league over simply dropping his sorry ass.
 
2013-11-05 06:34:14 PM

bluenote13: IAmRight: ladodger34: And that the whole take out the vets to dinner was a new thing.

Not from anyone else I've heard.

Of course, it made a hell of a lot more sense before the new salary cap, when sh*tty rookies were making more than Hall of Famers. Remember when Sam Bradford was the highest-paid QB in the league before ever playing a single game? I definitely don't have a problem with rookies having to pay for meals in those situations.

That's fine if the o-line tells Bradford.."hey rookie, why don't buy us dinner this week'.  It is a totally different thing when someone goes in to Bradford's wallet, takes his CC and charged 20k without telling him - like Seau did to Rivers.

As far as Martin, we don't know but 15k as 'part of the meal' seems a bit ridiculous.  Seems to be, from other reports, that the guys in Miami might have been using the rookies every week to get free meals.  Was it the guy in Miami who retweeted the pics from the Miami players that had comments like 'everything tastes better when a rookie pays for it'?  This does not seem like an isolated incident nor did it appear to stop after Martin was no longer a rookie.

The donuts, sandwiches, etc thing is pretty common...what Incognito and others did was well beyond normal.


It really does seem like the situation in Miami was out of hand. As far as the $20k from Rivers - the dude had just gotten a check for $14.5 million from the Chargers (and that's without including his base salary). Martin got a $1.9 million signing bonus to go with his $390k base when the guys hit him up for $15k. Not chump change, but a little different when you're talking similar money for an 8th of the salary.

Miami had a problem and for whatever reason no one stepped in to fix it and Incognito went way over the line. For my money, suspend the HC for a game w/o pay also. and get rid of everyone involved. Trade Martin for a pick or somehting and send Incognito off into retirement.
 
2013-11-05 06:42:28 PM

Shame Us: I think another major issue is that from what we understand of Incognito, good natured ribbing isn't really his forte. He's a bully and an asshole and he found a guy who was maybe too sensitive and maybe suffering from some mental health/depression problems and laid into him until he broke him. Does it rise to the level of a legal issue? Probably not, but if I'm the Dolphins, Richie is done. He's hurting the team. Period. I don't even think you need to suspend him officially, just inactivate him like the Eagles did with TO. Unless, maybe there's a financial incentive to have him suspended by the league over simply dropping his sorry ass.


Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm totally fine with dropping someone for continually being an asshole like Incognito is. But let's get over the clutching of the pearls with the claims of "bullying" and "threatened his family." He was being an aggressive asshole - there's no reason for anyone to believe that Martin's family was in danger or that anything was actually going to happen to Martin.

I've run into many a blowhard who made those types of vague threats. Again, it was the Marine Corps. People LOVED saying sh*t like they were Gunny Hartman from Full Metal Jacket, so honestly, Incognito's "threats" aren't even particularly imaginative to me. Number of them to be taken seriously? Zero. And yeah, I actually have a few specific people I'm thinking of that were very much into that kind of talk, thinking that it's good-natured ribbing.

bluenote13: Seems to be, from other reports, that the guys in Miami might have been using the rookies every week to get free meals.  Was it the guy in Miami who retweeted the pics from the Miami players that had comments like 'everything tastes better when a rookie pays for it'?  This does not seem like an isolated incident nor did it appear to stop after Martin was no longer a rookie.


Well, the complaints about having to pay for stuff only seemed to come from the rookie year.

But yeah, when people make such a fuss when you needle 'em, it does result in more needling in some environments rather than taking care to make sure they're never upset. The only thing we've heard about that was for sure from this year was that he snapped after the rest of the line got up from the table when he sat down there. It's high-schoolish and pathetic for the other people to do, but it's also silly to even care about it.
 
2013-11-05 06:54:28 PM

IAmRight: People LOVED saying sh*t like they were Gunny Hartman from Full Metal Jacket,


I can't be the only one who immediately heard R. Lee Ermey screaming "I will shiat down your NECK!" in my head (and then started laughing) when I read the "I will shiat in your mouth" part.
 
2013-11-05 07:04:33 PM

IAmRight: Shame Us: Golic also said, though eh wouldn't name a source or anything, that he had been told that the $15k was related to MArtin refusing to pay his share of the team meal. That it had been a kangaroo court type fine. As is usual with those types of fines from internal kangaroo courts, they usually go toward a party or trip or something for the position group. So while the $15k may have gone toward a trip to Vegas for the O-Line, it may not have been a situation where they said "Hey rook, pay for our trip or else."

That's the other thing about this. Again, we all know that Incognito's an asshole. But it doesn't really seem like the non-voicemail parts of the accusations are correct. (And the voicemail seems over-the-top, to the point that calling it "threatened his family" is ridiculous. I suppose people would rather write that than "he said he wanted to defecate in his mouth!")

/which admittedly, is pretty disturbing to an outsider
//but in the military we "threatened" to do a lot of stuff that there was obviously no intent to do
///I suppose that the culture definitely needs to change when you actually have to take classes on your way out to try to re-train your vocabulary
////in the real world, if someone asks you to do something, and you say "Kill" every single time, they get scared of you.


It's the n-word that moves it from over-the-top in a funny way to over-the-top in a way that everyone's going to be (rightly) up in arms about.
 
2013-11-05 07:19:43 PM

Dafatone: It's the n-word that moves it from over-the-top in a funny way to over-the-top in a way that everyone's going to be (rightly) up in arms about.


No, i'm saying, I understand not wanting to be around that dude. But you have to remember that for morons like Incognito, it's probably just another word intended to get Martin upset. It's not an actual threat so much as it is a broken sprinkler of idiocy just spraying all over the place. There's nothing to worry about from it, just try to avoid getting the dumb all over you.

Reporting it as "he threatened him and his family" is silly.
 
2013-11-05 07:26:25 PM

IAmRight: Reporting it as "he threatened him and his family" is silly.


Meh, ALL threats to someone's family are silly.

Until someone gets hurt.

Then it's hilarious.
 
2013-11-05 07:37:15 PM
I mean, he said he's going to slap his REAL mom across the face. AFAIK, Martin wasn't adopted and his family's been together his whole life. Saying he's going after his REAL mom should be a pretty good indication that it's just a dude being an idiot saying stuff to try to get Martin upset rather than even sort of a threat.
 
2013-11-05 07:53:03 PM

someonelse: He blasts the team from top to bottom, claims Incognito is getting railroaded, and uses the "black people say the N-word in rap music" argument to dismiss claims that Incognito sent racial messages to Martin.

What's his FARK handle?


McCainDemocrat
 
2013-11-05 09:18:26 PM

IAmRight: Dafatone: It's the n-word that moves it from over-the-top in a funny way to over-the-top in a way that everyone's going to be (rightly) up in arms about.

No, i'm saying, I understand not wanting to be around that dude. But you have to remember that for morons like Incognito, it's probably just another word intended to get Martin upset. It's not an actual threat so much as it is a broken sprinkler of idiocy just spraying all over the place. There's nothing to worry about from it, just try to avoid getting the dumb all over you.

Reporting it as "he threatened him and his family" is silly.


Well, we don't really know.  Just because he'd say anything to piss Martin off doesn't mean he's not also super racist.

I agree that reporting it as a threat is silly, but there's a lot of silliness here.  Have you seen ESPN anchors try to read the transcript of that voicemail?
 
2013-11-05 10:06:06 PM

Dafatone: Well, we don't really know.  Just because he'd say anything to piss Martin off doesn't mean he's not also super racist.

I agree that reporting it as a threat is silly, but there's a lot of silliness here.  Have you seen ESPN anchors try to read the transcript of that voicemail?


While it's true he may be super racist, I feel like that might have come up at some point in his NFL career and I'm pretty sure every media outlet would have LOVED to run with that story. Not to mention Hard Knocks having been there. I don't think he's bright enough to hide it. I do think that he's one of those people that thinks it's not that big a deal, however, though i doubt he actually hates black people.

And no, I haven't seen anyone try to read it; I don't have ESPN (or cable) and Bob Costas didn't use his pulpit to discuss it during SNF (or I missed it).
 
2013-11-06 01:55:46 AM

Dafatone: IAmRight: Dafatone: It's the n-word that moves it from over-the-top in a funny way to over-the-top in a way that everyone's going to be (rightly) up in arms about.

No, i'm saying, I understand not wanting to be around that dude. But you have to remember that for morons like Incognito, it's probably just another word intended to get Martin upset. It's not an actual threat so much as it is a broken sprinkler of idiocy just spraying all over the place. There's nothing to worry about from it, just try to avoid getting the dumb all over you.

Reporting it as "he threatened him and his family" is silly.

Well, we don't really know.  Just because he'd say anything to piss Martin off doesn't mean he's not also super racist.


Nah, he's just an asshole.
All racists are assholes by their very nature.
But then non-racist assholes say racist stuff sometimes just because they're assholes.
It's a subtle nuance.
 
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