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(USA Today)   School-issued iPads are helping to enrich the lives of the next generation of thieves   (usatoday.com) divider line 39
    More: Obvious, iPads, elementary schools, Los Angeles Unified, largest school districts, computer labs, street corner  
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4663 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2013 at 6:56 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-04 07:04:42 AM
Why do grade school students need iPads?
 
2013-11-04 07:07:48 AM
Inside job, eh, subby? I wonder how you know that.
 
2013-11-04 07:09:04 AM
When I was a kid, we took good care of our textbooks.
We did this because we hated them, and they weren't any good for anything. and we had to pay if we messed them up.
Giving teenagers or children something cool, and good for all kinds of things, for free - well, I think you can see the problem.
The concept is good, but the execution needs to be some horrible off-brand Chines kindle-equivalent that will do nothing but display boring textbook material. Children should only be allowed to have them if they don't want them.
And yes, I am one of those who believes that turning children into human beings is hard, and involves force, coercion, and deception. They don't want to become human, for the most part, and fight and struggle throughout the entire process.
 
2013-11-04 07:09:44 AM

Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?


The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.
 
2013-11-04 07:10:19 AM
Simple solution. But Surfaces instead of iPads. Thieves won't even touch them. Plus, the fat kids can get exercise connecting the keyboards or so that Microsoft commercial told me.
 
2013-11-04 07:11:28 AM

CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.


Of course, if this is true, and can't be changed, then scratch what I said - the concept isn't even good.
 
2013-11-04 07:12:35 AM

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Simple solution. But Surfaces instead of iPads. Thieves won't even touch them. Plus, the fat kids can get exercise connecting the keyboards or so that Microsoft commercial told me.


Dancing around on the table tops ought to burn off a few calories.
 
2013-11-04 07:18:30 AM

Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?


They don't.

The simple fact is this is a ploy to sell millions of iPads.

And it's allegedly in terror of 'falling behind' other nations in education, who allegedly come out much stronger in things that business leaders consider 'critical' for their employees (but not their children).

WE need more STEM? No, half the people with STEM degrees don't have jobs in STEM and HALF THE PEOPLE IN STEM DO NOT HAVE STEM TRAINING.

You know what genuinely works?

Maximum class size of 22, minimum class size of 15. Supplementary language and communication training, good nutrition, good parental involvement and training on emotional development, a literate home life, and the ability to focus (drop the classes you suck at) when you get past what most of the world has historically considered the 'age of majority' : 12.

You know what doesn't work ?

Giving gadgets, hypertesting, competitive (or curved) grading, Syllabus-by-committee, Abstainence-nly educations by a community less concerned with helping kids find partners and more obsessed with not paying babies out of wedlock.
 
2013-11-04 07:20:28 AM

Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?


Because children wouldn't learn how to use simple user interfaces otherwise. You must be some kind of luddite. It's the only explanation.
 
2013-11-04 07:26:33 AM
Do the kids turn in the iPad at the end of the year or do the kids get to keep them?  If they keep them do they get a second iPad the next school year?  If they turn them in, does the school send them back to Apple or do they wipe off the boogers and reissue them in the fall?
 
2013-11-04 07:26:37 AM
"Most kids don't think that if they whip out an iPad on the walk home, they may have made themselves a target to anybody on that street corner."

So remember, kids, leave that iPad in the see-through backpack that was your only school-approved option.
 
2013-11-04 07:39:06 AM
When I was in college most people with portable electronic devices in class used it to text friends during the lecture.  Do grade school teachers let the students have their iPads on during class?  If not then why do the students need something as portable as an iPad?  Wouldn't a nice desktop PC be the thing they need?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the benefits of technology.  I am dyslexic.  My dyslexia manifests itself by my repeating a sentence or phrase. I remember well the frustrations of having to rewrite an entire paper long hand because I repeated something.  A word processor would have been perfect.  Most big papers were assigned as homework so I wouldn't have needed to carry the PC around all day. What is wrong with desktop PCs?
 
2013-11-04 07:43:22 AM
Sometimes stupid policies have an immediate and painful effect, rather than a long term one.
 
2013-11-04 07:48:44 AM

Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?


Speaking as the technology support teacher from a 1-to-1 iPad elementary school....they don't.

It's not that there aren't some very cool, even useful things you can do with them.  GarageBand is a great way to teach simple music composition, and could even be used for simple music theory.  It's more flexible in that students can compose and share more 'privately' than the usual 'play your recorder in front of your class' way.  Edmodo/Schoology are good ways to teach online behavior, as well as an alternative means for kids to do their regular class work, and 1-to-1 means that they're able to access these sites 99% of the time at school (our devices do not go home).  Apps like Mathboard, Raz-kids, and Mathletics take the paper out of skill and drill, reducing waste.

But on the other side...with no 'traditional' keyboard kids might be losing fluency in typing.  Word processing skills on an iPad with Pages are different than those on a computer (the iPad does a lot of the formatting and text movement for you, things that will need to be retaught when my students leave our school).  The apps on iOS are limited compared to their MacOS counterparts, and...don't play nice together (iMovie being my biggest bugaboo on this front).  And maintenance...

iTunes isn't designed for multiple devices to be synced at the same time, and Configurator is a broken mess of a program that doesn't do half of what it claims to, even when it works.  VPP is a hopeless mess that is incredibly poorly documented, and god help you if even one part of the chain is out of date, because Apple seems to greatly enjoy changing specifications midstream with little or no notification to their customers.

We're in year 2 of a 3 year plan; according to the IT head who was at my school trying (and failing!) to help me get my systems running properly it won't be going past that.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars down the tubes, thanks to Apples marketing department.
 
2013-11-04 07:49:48 AM

CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.


I am amused by the shock of PTAs that discovered that the benefits of eBooks for the kids being oversold. For instance: "Unlike textbooks that wear out, we can just load up all the books onto the ereaders and the students can use them forever! YAY!" Textbook sellers "That's cute, now pay the license fee every year or we delete the texts."

Jesus, we fell for technology harder than all the parents that bought their little geniuses Multimedia computers with cd-rom Encarta back in the 90s, thinking those 90 second video clips would make their kids successful. You know, instead of hard work and studying.
 
2013-11-04 07:58:29 AM

Kurohone: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

Speaking as the technology support teacher from a 1-to-1 iPad elementary school....they don't.

It's not that there aren't some very cool, even useful things you can do with them.  GarageBand is a great way to teach simple music composition, and could even be used for simple music theory.  It's more flexible in that students can compose and share more 'privately' than the usual 'play your recorder in front of your class' way.  Edmodo/Schoology are good ways to teach online behavior, as well as an alternative means for kids to do their regular class work, and 1-to-1 means that they're able to access these sites 99% of the time at school (our devices do not go home).  Apps like Mathboard, Raz-kids, and Mathletics take the paper out of skill and drill, reducing waste.

But on the other side...with no 'traditional' keyboard kids might be losing fluency in typing.  Word processing skills on an iPad with Pages are different than those on a computer (the iPad does a lot of the formatting and text movement for you, things that will need to be retaught when my students leave our school).  The apps on iOS are limited compared to their MacOS counterparts, and...don't play nice together (iMovie being my biggest bugaboo on this front).  And maintenance...

iTunes isn't designed for multiple devices to be synced at the same time, and Configurator is a broken mess of a program that doesn't do half of what it claims to, even when it works.  VPP is a hopeless mess that is incredibly poorly documented, and god help you if even one part of the chain is out of date, because Apple seems to greatly enjoy changing specifications midstream with little or no notification to their customers.

We're in year 2 of a 3 year plan; according to the IT head who was at my school trying (and failing!) to help me get my systems running properly it won't be going past that.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars down the tubes, thanks to Apples marketing depar ...


i know this is a side tangent and I don't want to make this an Apple hate thread., but why is it so difficult to sync multiple devices to a single account? That seems like poor interface BY DESIGN.
 
2013-11-04 08:04:48 AM

Fano: i know this is a side tangent and I don't want to make this an Apple hate thread., but why is it so difficult to sync multiple devices to a single account? That seems like poor interface BY DESIGN.


Apple has ZERO interest in enterprise capacity for iPad management. I've worked on the license management for bulk licenses for apps for our schools as well as central management of the iPads and Apple's "solutions" are a joke. We have to have a single account per school to ensure apps bought for a specific school don't go to other schools (because of Title I funding), and their programs can't do breakdowns of license pools. There are third-party solutions, but they're expensive and not much better.
 
2013-11-04 08:13:06 AM

dg41: Fano: i know this is a side tangent and I don't want to make this an Apple hate thread., but why is it so difficult to sync multiple devices to a single account? That seems like poor interface BY DESIGN.

Apple has ZERO interest in enterprise capacity for iPad management. I've worked on the license management for bulk licenses for apps for our schools as well as central management of the iPads and Apple's "solutions" are a joke. We have to have a single account per school to ensure apps bought for a specific school don't go to other schools (because of Title I funding), and their programs can't do breakdowns of license pools. There are third-party solutions, but they're expensive and not much better.


This.  Our division works a bit different in that there's a single purchasing account that then distributes the codes to schools, but then deployment hasn't worked properly yet.  This is mainly due to the iOS 7 upgrade, which requires an iTunes upgrade, which then requires a Configurator upgrade, which requires a MacOS upgrade.  That's where we're stuck right now.
 
2013-11-04 08:15:27 AM

CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.


Yep,  Its so textbook companies can eliminate the entire cost of actually publishing books, while still charging the same.  Sweet deal, eh?
 
2013-11-04 08:17:52 AM

Kurohone: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

Speaking as the technology support teacher from a 1-to-1 iPad elementary school....they don't.

It's not that there aren't some very cool, even useful things you can do with them.  GarageBand is a great way to teach simple music composition, and could even be used for simple music theory.  It's more flexible in that students can compose and share more 'privately' than the usual 'play your recorder in front of your class' way.  Edmodo/Schoology are good ways to teach online behavior, as well as an alternative means for kids to do their regular class work, and 1-to-1 means that they're able to access these sites 99% of the time at school (our devices do not go home).  Apps like Mathboard, Raz-kids, and Mathletics take the paper out of skill and drill, reducing waste.

But on the other side...with no 'traditional' keyboard kids might be losing fluency in typing.  Word processing skills on an iPad with Pages are different than those on a computer (the iPad does a lot of the formatting and text movement for you, things that will need to be retaught when my students leave our school).  The apps on iOS are limited compared to their MacOS counterparts, and...don't play nice together (iMovie being my biggest bugaboo on this front).  And maintenance...

iTunes isn't designed for multiple devices to be synced at the same time, and Configurator is a broken mess of a program that doesn't do half of what it claims to, even when it works.  VPP is a hopeless mess that is incredibly poorly documented, and god help you if even one part of the chain is out of date, because Apple seems to greatly enjoy changing specifications midstream with little or no notification to their customers.

We're in year 2 of a 3 year plan; according to the IT head who was at my school trying (and failing!) to help me get my systems running properly it won't be going past that.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars down the tubes, thanks to Apples marketing depar ...


I work in a IT Dept (Net Admin) of a school district going through the same thing. Teachers wanted them, Administration wanted them, Parent groups wanted them.... so we slowly purchased and deployed them.

Seems to me most of the time they are used as a reward for doing something in class...ie...you did you assignment...now you can play on the iPad for 30 minutes.

Most of the teachers don't know how to use them in class, a lot of the limitations for using Apple devices is a nightmare and people just don't understand that they are not meant to be used in a corporate type environment. I will say it seems to be a little bit better with some of the newer things they've done. You can now check out apps rather then assigning them to one account.

Also if you've deployed them without any type of MDM (mobile device management) you're just asking for all kinds of trouble. That is another cost per device, setup time and administration that no one takes into account.

Having the teacher show their screen on a projector is horrible. Apple share doesn't like mutli access point environments. It prefers that they both devices be connected to the same AP. With load balancing wireless clients don't always stay on one access point. There are ways around this....but that cost money and more app's that have to be purchased.

Not to mention the big pissing contest of "why did s/he get an iPad and I didn't" that went on in the first year. IMO teachers only want them so they can look "cool" to the students or when they are at a coffee shop or library.
 
2013-11-04 08:32:40 AM

Alonjar: CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.

Yep,  Its so textbook companies can eliminate the entire cost of actually publishing books, while still charging the same.  Sweet deal, eh?


You gotta admit, the textbook companies got a pretty sweet hustle going on. And the best part it any criticism can be swept under "think of the children", the ultimate trump card for "damn the spending, full speed ahead" these days.
 
2013-11-04 08:34:51 AM

CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.


I was going to go with the "apple fanboy teacher/principal" theory.  When have you ever known of a public school to buy the most expensive & top of the line ANYTHING for classroom and home use?  Instead we get an apple zealot that believes the more iproducts they buy for their school, the more likely Jobs will rise from the grave!
 
2013-11-04 09:01:16 AM
If the schools are too stupid/lazy to enable password lock and the "Find My iPhone" software (yeah, it finds iPads too), then they can explain to taxpayers why they need to buy new ones instead of tracking the stolen ones and arresting criminals.
 
2013-11-04 09:01:18 AM

buttcat: CRNewsom: Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?

The schools sell the parents (read: taxpayers and tuition payers) and the administrators on electronic textbooks. They don't necessarily say that it will be cheaper than printed books, but it is often implied. However, with licensing fees, the situation is cost neutral at best and possibly much more expensive.

I was going to go with the "apple fanboy teacher/principal" theory.  When have you ever known of a public school to buy the most expensive & top of the line ANYTHING for classroom and home use?  Instead we get an apple zealot that believes the more iproducts they buy for their school, the more likely Jobs will rise from the grave!


In my middle/high school days we had Epson Equity IIs that were outdated 5 years before the school received them, with dual disk drives (a 20 meg hard drive for the teacher's computer) and a "writing lab" that had all the old school macs. The screens were black and white as far as I recall, but they were more advanced than IIes, they used 3.5 discs) CSB, I know but this was from 1992-1996. Still,there was a cult already formed that said that kids would learn if only a "multimedia" computer environment were used, as opposed to boring old lectures.

At least with the ipads I can see administrators and teachers seeing all the cool apps and seeing benefits to replacing a two foot high stack of books with a slim pad that can be used to cross reference and access the internet to supplement lessons. Implemented properly it really does sound amazing, compared to the shoehorned in methods used in the past. OTOH, sounds like cost free product placement for Apple.
 
2013-11-04 09:05:27 AM

Muta: Why do grade school students need iPads?


So we can pay teachers less and not have the funds to train them to use new equipment effectively, or keep up with their studies of advancements in their field of knowledge.
 
2013-11-04 09:26:37 AM

Muta: Do the kids turn in the iPad at the end of the year or do the kids get to keep them? If they keep them do they get a second iPad the next school year? If they turn them in, does the school send them back to Apple or do they wipe off the boogers and reissue them in the fall?


Whatever costs the most.

A more expensive education = a better education, right?
 
2013-11-04 09:31:38 AM
If we just print out a sheet of paper with pictures of fries and cheeseburgers on it, that can be used to train American kids to get a useful job.
 
2013-11-04 09:36:38 AM
This is why you arrange for the manufacturer to make casings that are CLEARLY identifiable and to include hardware that farkING SCREAMS if it is removed from the cabinet for more than 10 hours.

Seriously, screams.   WEEEOOOOEEEEOOOOEEEEEOOOOOEEEEOOO

Make the school supplies computers unsellable and thefts will go WAY down.
 
2013-11-04 10:10:19 AM

Muta: When I was in college most people with portable electronic devices in class used it to text friends during the lecture.  Do grade school teachers let the students have their iPads on during class?


"Ender's Game" shows how essential interstudent communication is.
 
2013-11-04 10:18:39 AM
Is this a case of "Help! My kid is stupid! I'll pay anything to get him educated!"
or am I completly wrong?
 
2013-11-04 10:20:43 AM
what a surprise! welcome to the human race.
/I remember making book covers out of paper bags.
//they were cool because you could draw pictures and stuff on them
///like bob and Michele forever.
////but not really :(
 
2013-11-04 10:21:01 AM
I don't mean to come off as "hey you, get off my lawn" here, but I really don't see why any classrooms need these devices to begin with.  Just about every kid has got a smart phone already.  So it's not like the are learning some new awesome technology that they would otherwise miss out on.
Besides, most people have got devices like that at home.

It's come to a point now where the teachers in both of my kid's schools demand that homework be printed from the computer.  They don't want to hear any excuses about not having a printer at home.  So it really sucks when the printer runs out of ink, and it costs us like $75 to get new cartridges.

And what's the point of that, really?  We all made it through school just fine without that stuff.
 
2013-11-04 10:35:37 AM
I love the concept of 'lockable technology carts.' You take a whole bunch of tech, put a cheap lock on it, AND ADD WHEELS! You basically give theives a prepacked shopping cart to jack your shiat with! Either lock the cart up or load the tech into a sturdy locker FFS.
 
2013-11-04 10:57:46 AM

jso2897: When I was a kid, we took good care of our textbooks.
We did this because we hated them, and they weren't any good for anything. and we had to pay if we messed them up.
Giving teenagers or children something cool, and good for all kinds of things, for free - well, I think you can see the problem.
The concept is good, but the execution needs to be some horrible off-brand Chines kindle-equivalent that will do nothing but display boring textbook material. Children should only be allowed to have them if they don't want them.
And yes, I am one of those who believes that turning children into human beings is hard, and involves force, coercion, and deception. They don't want to become human, for the most part, and fight and struggle throughout the entire process.


Agrees (first thing I thought of)...

ascending-knowledge.com

/Hot as a young Sting in a speedo.
 
2013-11-04 11:16:33 AM

durbnpoisn: I don't mean to come off as "hey you, get off my lawn" here, but I really don't see why any classrooms need these devices to begin with.  Just about every kid has got a smart phone already.  So it's not like the are learning some new awesome technology that they would otherwise miss out on.
Besides, most people have got devices like that at home.

It's come to a point now where the teachers in both of my kid's schools demand that homework be printed from the computer.  They don't want to hear any excuses about not having a printer at home.  So it really sucks when the printer runs out of ink, and it costs us like $75 to get new cartridges.

And what's the point of that, really?  We all made it through school just fine without that stuff.


I work in IT, and frankly, I agree. iPads are so easy to use that my niece could use one BEFORE SHE LEARNED HOW TO READ. They give them to freaking zoo animals for God's sake.

I don't think kids should even get calculators in school. Give them paper and pencils, and books. Dammit, this shouldn't be difficult.
 
2013-11-04 11:27:48 AM
And of course none of the little darlings would ever, ever, ever pass along information on just where those toys are stored to anyone outside the school. Not even to Uncle Mike, who just got out of jail, or Aunt Lucy, whose boyfriends don't seem to work but who have new cars and lots of jewelry.  Nope, none of that involved. Ever.
 
2013-11-04 12:04:55 PM
Welcome to the 21st century, you farking Luddites.
 
2013-11-04 12:10:10 PM
It's a Head Start.
 
2013-11-04 12:52:48 PM
My son (13yo) got a school issued i-pad mini this September. So far kids are getting them taken away for playing games in class, taking pictures of others in the gym change rooms, DLing of inappropiate apps/material, plus one kid never got one because he told staff he was just going to purposely break it in June because his parents bought the insurance anyway.

Somehow even though alot of these scenerios were brought up at parent info meetings, school officials stated the students were "more responsible" than that.

They've barely used them so far.
 
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