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(News 13 Orlando)   Because of course there would be a Florida connection   (mynews13.com) divider line 34
    More: Florida, Los Angeles International Airport, old paul, Paul Ciancia  
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7700 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2013 at 3:16 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-04 12:27:47 AM

Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.


Could? .
 
2013-11-04 01:43:59 AM

doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .


He could still be ineligible for it if they decide his IQ's too low or something.
 
2013-11-04 03:22:46 AM

Chinchillazilla: doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .

He could still be ineligible for it if they decide his IQ's too low or something.


Personally, I'm for the death penalty in specific cases despite being very much opposed to the conduct of the various organs of the American legal system in the 2010s.

But when you are apprehended by police with a literally smoking gun and 10000 people just saw you kill a man and shoot at a bunch of others with that weapon? No amount of DA corruption and police misconduct locally can be claimed on your part. This is the rare case where there is no need to trump up any charges or shiat like that. The only possible way he shouldn't be facing the death penalty is if we are bringing back gladiatorial pits and we need condemned men to volunteer for training.
 
2013-11-04 03:27:08 AM
Now I'm trying to think of lyrics for a Rainbow Connection parody, about Florida.
 
2013-11-04 03:32:33 AM

doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .


California's death penalty laws are pretty restrictive. CA Penal Code 188 defines 1st Degree Murder as:

All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison, lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery, burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle, intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. Every person guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by death, imprisonment in the state prison for life without the possibility of parole, or imprisonment in the state prison for a term of 25 years to life. The penalty to be applied shall be determined as provided in Sections 190.1, 190.2, 190.3, 190.4, and 190.5.

It's 190.2 that makes it tough. To get the death penalty in CA requires not just 1st Degree murder but also "special circumstances" such as torture, commission of the crime for profit or to evade arrest, by means of an explosive device, upon a child or in the commission of a sex crime, and a few other cases. It's kind of difficult to prove the extra issues and they can often be offset by mitigating circumstances. Just killing a federal agent at an airport--if CA takes the case under state law--isn't necessarily enough to make it a slam dunk.

Or they could just be hedging their bets.
 
2013-11-04 03:40:09 AM

Gyrfalcon: CA


Ah, the problem arises.
 
2013-11-04 03:49:49 AM

doglover: Gyrfalcon: CA

Ah, the problem arises.


What problem? The death penalty shouldn't exist at ALL (as it's nothing more than state-sponsored revenge), but if it does exist, it should be EXTREMELY difficult and rare.
 
2013-11-04 03:52:00 AM
So, the fact that he went to a technical college is relevant because.... we should ban going to college??  Wait, wait, wait.. ban Florida?!?!  Or, ban learning?

Oh, OK, I've got it... complete and total ban on reporters who can actually publish a story worth a farking shiat!!!
 
2013-11-04 03:52:00 AM
Officials don't believe the friend knew of the alleged shooter's plans.

Man, that guy must be absolutely haunted now.
 
2013-11-04 03:55:28 AM

Gyrfalcon: doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .

California's death penalty laws are pretty restrictive. CA Penal Code 188 defines 1st Degree Murder as:

All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison, lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery, burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle, intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. Every person guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by death, imprisonment in the state prison for life without the possibility of parole, or imprisonment in the state prison for a term of 25 years to life. The penalty to be applied shall be determined as provided in Sections 190.1, 190.2, 190.3, 190.4, and 190.5.

It's 190.2 that makes it tough. To get the death penalty in CA requires not just 1st Degree murder but also "special circumstances" such as torture, commission of the crime for profit or to evade arrest, by means of an explosive device, upon a child or in the commission of a sex crime, and a few other cases. It's kind of difficult to prove the extra issues and they can often be offset by mitigating circumstances. Just killing a federal agent at an airport--if CA takes the case under state law--isn't necessarily enough to make it a slam dunk.

Or they could just be hedging their bets.


What are the relevant federal statutes?
 
2013-11-04 04:01:02 AM

LordJiro: The death penalty shouldn't exist at ALL


In the ideal world, with infinite resources and time yes, we should focus on reforming criminals into productive people and assist them in atoning for their crime.

In the real world we have too many problems and not nearly enough resources to deal with most of them. The most ethical thing you can do for the world is just to put the occasional rabid dog down. This is one of those times. There's no question of his guilt and there's never going to be a way for him to re-integrate with society. He's just going to suck up money and resources forever now, and even if he could he will lack the opportunity to give something back. No more motorcycle repair for that guy.
 
2013-11-04 04:23:56 AM

TheMega: So, the fact that he went to a technical college is relevant because.... we should ban going to college??  Wait, wait, wait.. ban Florida?!?!  Or, ban learning?

Oh, OK, I've got it... complete and total ban on reporters who can actually publish a story worth a farking shiat!!!


Cause it's a slow news week and he didn't kill enough children to warrant outrage to keep the news cycle afloat.
 
2013-11-04 04:45:41 AM
bud jones:  What are the relevant federal statutes?

dude.  terrorism.  killing a federal employee.  a million things about guns in an airport, probably.  i mean, if the Boston Marathon bomber can be brought up on federal charges (note:  not saying i have a problem with this), then this guy sure as hell can.  state laws won't prevent that.

/the linked story is even less newsy than most on Fark, holy shiat
 
2013-11-04 05:00:10 AM
... and this is news why?
 
2013-11-04 05:21:40 AM

LordJiro: What problem? The death penalty shouldn't exist at ALL (as it's nothing more than state-sponsored revenge), but if it does exist, it should be EXTREMELY difficult and rare.


I've never seen the sense to it myself. Especially now that we have such kind and gentle ways of offing people. I would think spending 60+ years, knowing you will never again be free, having to deal with the consequences of your actions, etc. would be a far greater punishment than the magic shot. And since the goal is to punish and not exact revenge...

Some will argue that it costs too much to keep them alive. I've seen other 'reports' that contradict that, so who knows.

I just don't think the state should have the right to end a life.
 
2013-11-04 05:45:31 AM

GodComplex: TheMega: So, the fact that he went to a technical college is relevant because.... we should ban going to college??  Wait, wait, wait.. ban Florida?!?!  Or, ban learning?


Ban motorcycles. Obviously. They are antisocial killers. Think of tha chilluns. If there were no motorcycles there would be no need for any spurious "motorcycle training course" and this whole tragedy could have been averted.

/ Have I got it? Do I get that gubmint contract?
 
2013-11-04 05:52:46 AM

phenn: And since the goal is to punish


That's what's wrong with America's legal system in general. People actually think that's the goal.

The goal is to first and foremost protect society. Once that's accomplished you want the person to be rehabilitated and become a productive member if possible. In some cases, this is not possible and it regrettably becomes necessary to end their life as quickly and painlessly as possible.

If your argument is that it's crueler to keep people alive, so we should try to keep people alive as long as possible for maximum suffering on their part.... Well just think about that.
 
2013-11-04 06:05:09 AM

doglover: phenn: And since the goal is to punish

That's what's wrong with America's legal system in general. People actually think that's the goal.

The goal is to first and foremost protect society. Once that's accomplished you want the person to be rehabilitated and become a productive member if possible. In some cases, this is not possible and it regrettably becomes necessary to end their life as quickly and painlessly as possible.

If your argument is that it's crueler to keep people alive, so we should try to keep people alive as long as possible for maximum suffering on their part.... Well just think about that.


No. My argument is not 'go for the cruelest punishment possible'. It is that killing someone is not punishment. It's revenge. It's not justice. Just revenge.
 
2013-11-04 06:07:11 AM

Chinchillazilla: doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .

He could still be ineligible for it if they decide his IQ's too low or something.


he could plead God card

/waits for the lawyer to say "Jeebus made him do it"
 
2013-11-04 06:28:33 AM

phenn: Just revenge.


Is it? The Ice Man killed a LOT of people. Even if he was full of shiat and made the extreme stuff up, he still killed a lot of people. Keeping someone like that alive, even in a prison, is a dangerous proposition unless you more or less torture him in continuous isolation.

Killing him isn't revenge or justice, but a safety measure that can't be circumvented.
 
2013-11-04 06:40:27 AM

doglover: phenn: Just revenge.

Is it? The Ice Man killed a LOT of people. Even if he was full of shiat and made the extreme stuff up, he still killed a lot of people. Keeping someone like that alive, even in a prison, is a dangerous proposition unless you more or less torture him in continuous isolation.

Killing him isn't revenge or justice, but a safety measure that can't be circumvented.


I just don't see it that way. Instead of coming up with warmer, fuzzier ways of killing such people, we should come up with better ways to keep them from innocent members of society.
 
2013-11-04 07:05:38 AM

doglover: Ciancia is facing charges of murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport. The charges could qualify him for the death penalty.

Could? .


Qualify? I always associated that word with positive statements, like "You qualified for the race", or "You have qualified the exam" or "You've qualified for a $20,000 credit card" or "You have qualified for a seat upgrade to First Class"

At least, that's what I came in here to say, until, oh lawdy dawgluvvah's gun an bee all flipmo onnus, cryin awl 'striiing tht nubian up by his toes and slit hims eyeballs till he dun bleeds to death, y'all. mumble mumble waste ah mah ocksy-gen tawkin to yew sitty slikuurs. frak me, whars mah spittoon gawn, gorranr kid mumble mumble.
 
2013-11-04 07:22:39 AM
I hear he also once went to 7-eleven.  I think we need an official statement and apology from 7-eleven corporate.  And what brand of of coffee did he prefer?  Damn journalists seriously dropping the ball om getting the real story.
 
2013-11-04 07:31:37 AM

phenn: Some will argue that it costs too much to keep them alive. I've seen other 'reports' that contradict that, so who knows.


It costs more to execute someone due to all the appeals that must be granted and the whole long drawn-out process involved...

I just don't think the state should have the right to end a life.

Do you think cops should be able to shoot someone who is in the process of committing a violent crime? If so, you already support the state ending lives... It's just a question of details on when and how... And, while the common reasoning in the case of cops shooting criminals is that they're trying to prevent possible imminent harm to others, that same reasoning could be applied to executions as well... If you have someone who you believe to be a threat to the public if ever released, executing them just makes sense pragmatically... If it's ok for the cop to do in a split-second decision with no trial, why is it not ok for a court to do in a well-considered decision after a fair trial?

I actually tend to not care much for the death penalty either, in most cases... On the sole grounds that sometimes innocent people are convicted... So, in any case where there's not 100% certainty that the convicted person is truly guilty of the crime, I'd find it hard to accept the death penalty being imposed... But, in a case like this, where there can be no real room for doubt due to the person being caught in the act, I have very little problem with it...
 
2013-11-04 07:36:56 AM
Someday we'll find it
the Florida Connection
the nutjobs
the weirdos
and me
 
2013-11-04 07:57:30 AM

LordJiro: doglover: Gyrfalcon: CA

Ah, the problem arises.

What problem? The death penalty shouldn't exist at ALL (as it's nothing more than state-sponsored revenge), but if it does exist, it should be EXTREMELY difficult and rare.

have been applied immediately.


/The Death Penalty: Not just a savings of $30,000/year
 
2013-11-04 08:24:29 AM

RobSeace: Do you think cops should be able to shoot someone who is in the process of committing a violent crime? If so, you already support the state ending lives... It's just a question of details on when and how... And, while the common reasoning in the case of cops shooting criminals is that they're trying to prevent possible imminent harm to others, that same reasoning could be applied to executions as well... If you have someone who you believe to be a threat to the public if ever released, executing them just makes sense pragmatically... If it's ok for the cop to do in a split-second decision with no trial, why is it not ok for a court to do in a well-considered decision after a fair trial?



You're comparing a defensive shooting with executing a guy strapped to a chair? Good luck with that.
 
2013-11-04 08:37:09 AM
Ok, wait.  I'm trying to understand what his having gone to a motorcycle repair school in Orlando has to do with his shooting some TSA agents in LAX.

TFA also says he just moved to LA from Pennsville, N.J, so can we blame Chris Christie too?  Or too much Jersey Shore?

Wait...I grew up in NJ and now I live in Orlando...maybe I'll be next to snap...
 
2013-11-04 08:37:10 AM
HotWingAgenda

Officials don't believe the friend knew of the alleged shooter's plans.

Man, that guy must be absolutely haunted now.

Following Fark "logic" he should be in jail pending the same charges as the guy that pulled the trigger.
 
2013-11-04 08:47:59 AM
C'mon now, this is a serious stretch for the Florida tag.  The school is beyond irrelevant to the shooting.  It's not like the terrorists who took flight lessons in Florida before 9/11.
 
2013-11-04 10:15:39 AM
I'm still waiting for our local NBC news affiliate (KOB-TV) to come up with the "New Mexico Connection".
 
2013-11-04 10:20:13 AM

generallyso: You're comparing a defensive shooting with executing a guy strapped to a chair? Good luck with that.


In so much as both are "the state" taking a life, which the original poster said they didn't support...

However, it does strike me as somewhat odd that we're comfortable with effective execution in one context but not another... Consider a scenario: a gunman has just gone on a shooting spree, killing several, and is holding a group of others at gunpoint... A cop shows up, shoots and kills the gunman... Pretty much everyone would be fine with his death in that case... But, consider the same exact situation, except the wounds from the shooting were not deadly this time, and the gunman recovers and is put on trial and sentenced to death... Suddenly, some people now have a problem with his death... When they would've been fine with it if the cop's bullets had just been a tad more on mark at the time... I just find that curious really... And, it suggests to me it's less to do with "taking a life" and more with the manner in which it's taken... Heat of the moment snap judgement seems normal and human... Calm and calculated after the fact seems cold and inhuman...
 
2013-11-04 01:04:56 PM
For 3 years I was living in apartments that were also used as housing for Orlando MMI students.

It was a gated apartment complex located on a golf course right next to Sea World, so the landscaping was nice, the buildings were in good condition and I lived in a quiet section with decent neighbors.

They, on the other hand, all seemed to be living on the side that needed frequent visits from the Orange County Sheriff Dept. A coworker of mine also lived there, and we heard constant stories of vandalism and assault. I recall a rash of motorcycle thefts among the students, of course the perp was one of their own.
 
2013-11-04 01:14:18 PM
Weren't there some flight schools in Florida that got a lot of attention back in 2001?

/Sadly I'm a product of their public school system, so don't piss me off.  :-P
 
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