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(BBC)   British send payback for all the incomprehensible American political scandals they had to endure   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 69
    More: Silly, Plebgate, West Mercia Police, Home Affairs Select Committee, Americans, Keith Vaz, Police Federation, National Occupational Standards, Warwickshire  
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4653 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Nov 2013 at 12:33 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-03 12:35:25 PM  
So, what does "pleb" mean over the pond?
 
2013-11-03 12:36:29 PM  

simplicimus: So, what does "pleb" mean over the pond?


Plebian. Lesser in economic standing. Political underclass with no real power.
 
2013-11-03 12:44:07 PM  
Really, England? You don't have your own scandals to turn into pointless suffixes?
 
2013-11-03 12:45:16 PM  
 
2013-11-03 12:52:19 PM  
In September 2012, Mr Mitchell was accused of calling Downing Street officers "plebs" after they refused to let him ride his bicycle through the main gates

If Philly cops were held to these standards, there would be no Philly cops.
 
2013-11-03 12:55:15 PM  
In September 2012, Mr Mitchell was accused of calling Downing Street officers "plebs" after they refused to let him ride his bicycle through the main gates.

Wait, what? This amounts to a scandal in Jolly Ole? Srsly?

Lamest. Scandal. EVAR.

C'mon we used to get interesting scandals from the UK.  Affairs, Hitler uniforms, naked billiards parties and such. This is just disappointing.
 
2013-11-03 01:01:30 PM  
This isn't a political scandal.

This is scandal is about the police responsible for guarding Downing St, several moderately senior police officers and one other police officer, conspiring and lying to get a government minister fired.

After they've been found out, it also became a coverup organised by chief-inspector (the highest rank) officers to try to protect the officers that originally lied.

It's a complete shiatshow, and my 'Karma is a biatch' detector is off the scale. For the past couple of decades there have been cases where the police have lied, and then covered up their lies, and the government (and the IPCC) has done nothing. e.g. the death of Ian Tomlinson where despite many many lies being told by the police the IPCC decided that no action should be taken.
 
2013-11-03 01:07:17 PM  

Danack: This isn't a political scandal.

This is scandal is about the police responsible for guarding Downing St, several moderately senior police officers and one other police officer, conspiring and lying to get a government minister fired.

After they've been found out, it also became a coverup organised by chief-inspector (the highest rank) officers to try to protect the officers that originally lied.

It's a complete shiatshow, and my 'Karma is a biatch' detector is off the scale. For the past couple of decades there have been cases where the police have lied, and then covered up their lies, and the government (and the IPCC) has done nothing. e.g. the death of Ian Tomlinson where despite many many lies being told by the police the IPCC decided that no action should be taken.


Well, that's much more significant, then.
 
2013-11-03 01:10:02 PM  
So, to re-cap:

Politician calls some cops a bad name.  In an effort to smooth it over he has a meeting with senior representatives of the police, who then lie to the press and parliament about the meeting.  Investigation is continuing.

This is a scandal only because the Conservatives and press are diligently trying to bury the phone hacking scandal.  I assume they're scouring London's seedier side hoping to find an MP slipping it to something frightening, since those are always classics.

Cheers.

//We get a PM happy to admit that everything bad that happens to him is someone else's fault
//A mayor smoking something (my bet is on pot, not crack) who's a complete ass
//Give us a solid sex scandal and the student (or colonials, I guess) will have replaced the master
 
2013-11-03 01:22:31 PM  
Oh, and just to make it easy for you chaps - the lies told are:

i) The policemen on the gate lied about the encounter, and wrote a false account in their logs, which is a big no no.

ii) Another police officer wrote an email saying that he was standing outside the gate with his nephew and that he could confirm the police officers account. He pretended not to be a police officer in his email. The CCTV showed there was no-one outside the gate.

iii) 3 senior officers met with Andrew Mitchell to get his side of events. After the meeting they claimed he had refused to explain his actions or give his side of the story. This is a lie, proven by Andrew Mitchell secretly recording the meeting.

iv) The 3 senior officers lied to parliament about their meeting with Andrew Mitchell - this is a crime (contempt of Parliament) and is a jailable offence.

v) An internal investigation into those 3 officers was carried out, and the person doing the investigation thought they should faces charges of misconduct. He was overruled by more senior officers.

The actual encounter was (obviously) caught  on CCTV, and is analyzed here. It's pretty obvious that there was no 'heated' exchange, and that the police have been lying from the start, and then covering up for each other.

The fact that even with such massive evidence against them, and it being over a year since the incident that no police have been disciplined for this, helps explain how over 300 people have died in police custody between 1999 and 2009, but mysteriously none of those deaths were the fault of the police.

The full timeline is here:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24548645
 
2013-11-03 01:33:44 PM  

Danack: This isn't a political scandal.

This is scandal is about the police responsible for guarding Downing St, several moderately senior police officers and one other police officer, conspiring and lying to get a government minister fired.

After they've been found out, it also became a coverup organised by chief-inspector (the highest rank) officers to try to protect the officers that originally lied.

It's a complete shiatshow, and my 'Karma is a biatch' detector is off the scale. For the past couple of decades there have been cases where the police have lied, and then covered up their lies, and the government (and the IPCC) has done nothing. e.g. the death of Ian Tomlinson where despite many many lies being told by the police the IPCC decided that no action should be taken.


Except that's not the truth at all.

The only lies here are coming from lying criminal thug Andrew Mitchell. What he did was despicable and utterly beyond contempt.
 
2013-11-03 01:41:22 PM  

Rueened: The only lies here are coming from lying criminal thug Andrew Mitchell.


And presumably the CCTV and audio recording of the meeting are also lying?
 
2013-11-03 01:44:49 PM  

Rueened: Danack: This isn't a political scandal.

This is scandal is about the police responsible for guarding Downing St, several moderately senior police officers and one other police officer, conspiring and lying to get a government minister fired.

After they've been found out, it also became a coverup organised by chief-inspector (the highest rank) officers to try to protect the officers that originally lied.

It's a complete shiatshow, and my 'Karma is a biatch' detector is off the scale. For the past couple of decades there have been cases where the police have lied, and then covered up their lies, and the government (and the IPCC) has done nothing. e.g. the death of Ian Tomlinson where despite many many lies being told by the police the IPCC decided that no action should be taken.

Except that's not the truth at all.

The only lies here are coming from lying criminal thug Andrew Mitchell. What he did was despicable and utterly beyond contempt.


What, using naughty language?
 
2013-11-03 01:49:08 PM  
Is it pronounced like PLEHB or PLEEB?
 
2013-11-03 01:50:19 PM  
Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.
 
2013-11-03 01:53:21 PM  

Danack: Oh, and just to make it easy for you chaps - the lies told are:

i) The policemen on the gate lied about the encounter, and wrote a false account in their logs, which is a big no no.

ii) Another police officer wrote an email saying that he was standing outside the gate with his nephew and that he could confirm the police officers account. He pretended not to be a police officer in his email. The CCTV showed there was no-one outside the gate.

iii) 3 senior officers met with Andrew Mitchell to get his side of events. After the meeting they claimed he had refused to explain his actions or give his side of the story. This is a lie, proven by Andrew Mitchell secretly recording the meeting.

iv) The 3 senior officers lied to parliament about their meeting with Andrew Mitchell - this is a crime (contempt of Parliament) and is a jailable offence.

v) An internal investigation into those 3 officers was carried out, and the person doing the investigation thought they should faces charges of misconduct. He was overruled by more senior officers.

The actual encounter was (obviously) caught  on CCTV, and is analyzed here. It's pretty obvious that there was no 'heated' exchange, and that the police have been lying from the start, and then covering up for each other.

The fact that even with such massive evidence against them, and it being over a year since the incident that no police have been disciplined for this, helps explain how over 300 people have died in police custody between 1999 and 2009, but mysteriously none of those deaths were the fault of the police.

The full timeline is here:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24548645


Uh, so why is this non-event the scandal instead of the 300 dead people?
 
2013-11-03 02:01:33 PM  

Danack: Rueened: The only lies here are coming from lying criminal thug Andrew Mitchell.

And presumably the CCTV and audio recording of the meeting are also lying?


What recordings?

There ARE no recordings backing up what he says.

Why are people taking the side of this lying criminal? A guy who rides a bike, ffs.

Jesus.
 
2013-11-03 02:07:01 PM  
I thought Piers Morgan was our punishment.
 
2013-11-03 02:08:45 PM  

Poopspasm: Uh, so why is this non-event the scandal instead of the 300 dead people?


Well, those people were plebs obviously. Andrew Mitchell is part of the ruling class, so his 'forced to retire early' is obviously a far more serious thing for parliament to concern itself with.
 
2013-11-03 02:12:36 PM  

Rueened: Why are people taking the side of this lying criminal? A guy who rides a bike, ffs.


Rueened, I served with Mike Lowell. I knew Mike Lowell. Mike Lowell was a friend an acquaintance of mine. Rueened you're no Mike Lowell.
 
2013-11-03 02:20:07 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Is it pronounced like PLEHB or PLEEB?


No, no, no. It's spelled "pleb" but it's pronounced "throatwobbler mangrove"
 
2013-11-03 02:23:09 PM  

hawcian: Really, England? You don't have your own scandals to turn into pointless suffixes?


But this actually does involve a gate!
 
2013-11-03 02:38:40 PM  

Danack: Rueened: Why are people taking the side of this lying criminal? A guy who rides a bike, ffs.

Rueened, I served with Mike Lowell. I knew Mike Lowell. Mike Lowell was a friend an acquaintance of mine. Rueened you're no Mike Lowell.


Mike Lowell is an artist.

I'm just someone with a strong personal dislike for Andrew Mitchell.
 
2013-11-03 02:42:04 PM  
i915.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-03 02:46:01 PM  

i.imgur.com

 
2013-11-03 02:56:18 PM  
Bicycle: check
Class issues: check
Unnecessary use of Latin: check
Hyphenated last names: check

The only things missing are cross-dressing and baked beans.
 
2013-11-03 03:02:35 PM  
US politics: Call the President a radical socialist Marxist racist communist lying Kenyan Nazi usurper who is literally hell-bent on destroying the country - become a darling of your party.

UK politics: Call someone a pleb - career over.


US politics needs more tea and less testosterone.
 
2013-11-03 03:04:44 PM  

Wyalt Derp: US politics: Call the President a radical socialist Marxist racist communist lying Kenyan Nazi usurper who is literally hell-bent on destroying the country - become a darling of your party.

UK politics: Call someone a pleb - career over.


US politics needs more tea and less testosterone.


Testosterone makes you confrontational, not passive aggressive. US politics is menopausal and needs hormone treatment.
 
2013-11-03 03:04:49 PM  
Stuart is sporting quite the boner. Apparently he's enjoying this.
 
2013-11-03 03:12:23 PM  

vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.


Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.
 
2013-11-03 03:13:14 PM  

wildcardjack: hawcian: Really, England? You don't have your own scandals to turn into pointless suffixes?

But this actually does involve a gate!


Gate-gate?
 
2013-11-03 03:14:31 PM  
So-and-so called someone else a "plebe", huh?

Hmm...well, it's not as bad as starting a war under false pretenses and the mouth-breathers acting even more ticked off about the universal health care plan than about the damn war. It's surely not like politicians calling their elected leader a "Kenyan, Mooslem, socialist, Hitler-worshipping, commie, as they stick virtual probes in women's vaginas and shut down the govt over a partisan temper tantrum. It's not up there with getting busted for spying on the entire rest of the world, or rubbing one out on national TV to your semi-automatic rifles, right after a school shooting that left 20 first-graders dead, but goddammit, that's something!

Seriously, y'all need to step it up a notch. You're making us look bad over here.
 
2013-11-03 03:19:24 PM  
I like the Urban Dictionary definition for "pleb". Gives a list of similar perjoratives that I also don't understand.

"pleb
Actually defined as a member of a despised social class, a commoner, a member of the plebs of ancient Rome. Also low-born, undisinguished, vulgar, and my personal favourite: vulgar-looking.
Other words with similar meaning: Scrut, Townie, Kappa-Slapper, Rude-Boi, Scum, Greb, Scav, &c."

Not to confused with the american "plebe", "a newly entered cadet or freshman, esp. at a military academy."
 
2013-11-03 03:19:46 PM  
"pleb" isn't even all that offensive in UK and not commonly used. The lying coppers were using it as a "dog whistle" to attract the attention of people with class envy issues, like commentor "Rueened".
 
2013-11-03 03:21:10 PM  

LoneWolf343: vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.

Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.


That's true. I was doing a contract where the office was a hot bed of swearing. The word "coont" was thrown around liberally with not even a raised eyebrow.

I referred to someone as a spaz the one time and shiat hit the fan. I may not have helped the situation when I told the people with the issue to "stop being so retarded about it"
 
2013-11-03 03:23:03 PM  

LoneWolf343: vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.

Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.


What does that mean over there?
 
2013-11-03 03:27:15 PM  

simplicimus: LoneWolf343: vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.

Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.

What does that mean over there?


It's a delicacy.
 
2013-11-03 03:34:52 PM  

THE GREAT NAME: class envy issues


Are you for real?

My dislike for Mitchell has nothing to do with class.
 
2013-11-03 03:35:50 PM  

simplicimus: LoneWolf343: vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.

Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.

What does that mean over there?



Literally "spastic", as in suffering from Parkinson's or cerebral palsy.
 
2013-11-03 03:57:31 PM  

simplicimus: LoneWolf343:

Avoid using the word "spaz" there too.

What does that mean over there?


If they take umbrage at that word, why not try:   DEAAAACCCCCCONNNNNN!!1!
 
2013-11-03 03:59:33 PM  

vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.


Depends on how it's used, most likely. I can easily see it used as an insult.

I suppose you could use it ironically or as a term of affection, but only if you are part of the same 'in-group'. A government official calling lower-ranking officials 'plebs', however,  would seem disrespectful and pompous.

/American
 
2013-11-03 04:04:01 PM  

goatleggedfellow: vwarb: Wait, is "plebeian" considered a derogatory term over the pond? I use it all the time here to basically mean working class, or of the common man. Good to know I should avoid that if I'm ever abroad over there.

Depends on how it's used, most likely. I can easily see it used as an insult.

I suppose you could use it ironically or as a term of affection, but only if you are part of the same 'in-group'. A government official calling lower-ranking officials 'plebs', however,  would seem disrespectful and pompous.

/American


For an American to say that Kia makes plebian cars, or that the menu at Subway is plebian, is ok, if a little pretentious sounding.

But you wouldn't call another person a plebian, would you?
 
2013-11-03 04:04:20 PM  
news.bbcimg.co.uk

SRSLY, U GUYS?!
 
2013-11-03 04:14:54 PM  

Rueened: THE GREAT NAME: class envy issues

Are you for real?

My dislike for Mitchell has nothing to do with class.


Heh. Of course it does.
 
2013-11-03 04:20:33 PM  
A country with a noble class gets bent out of shape when someone calls a non-nobleman a pleb?  Really?
 
2013-11-03 04:21:05 PM  

DeltaXi65: A country with a noble class gets bent out of shape when someone calls a non-nobleman a pleb?  Really?


Even more weird considering the shiat that goes in the House of Commons and the tabloids.
 
2013-11-03 04:46:53 PM  

THE GREAT NAME: Rueened: THE GREAT NAME: class envy issues

Are you for real?

My dislike for Mitchell has nothing to do with class.

Heh. Of course it does.


It's not the Fifties any more, you know.

I dislike him because, in spite of being able to afford a car, he chooses to ride a bike. People like that have no place in society.
 
2013-11-03 05:02:08 PM  

simplicimus: So, what does "pleb" mean over the pond?


Plebs, plebis = Latin for "the common people". Fun fact: "plebs" is singular; the plural is "plebes".
 
2013-11-03 05:21:04 PM  

Rueened: I dislike him because, in spite of being able to afford a car, he chooses to ride a bike. People like that have no place in society.


Bike trolling in an English politics thread?  Really?

/Given the congestion in London, you'd have to be an idiot to commute by car.
//Even the (Conservative Party) mayor of London gets around by bike.
 
2013-11-03 05:22:30 PM  

Brian_of_Nazareth: So, to re-cap:

Politician calls some cops a bad name.  In an effort to smooth it over he has a meeting with senior representatives of the police, who then lie to the press and parliament about the meeting.  Investigation is continuing.

This is a scandal only because the Conservatives and press are diligently trying to bury the phone hacking scandal.  I assume they're scouring London's seedier side hoping to find an MP slipping it to something frightening, since those are always classics.

Cheers.

//We get a PM happy to admit that everything bad that happens to him is someone else's fault
//A mayor smoking something (my bet is on pot, not crack) who's a complete ass
//Give us a solid sex scandal and the student (or colonials, I guess) will have replaced the master


Not sure about the mayor, but you sound like you've been smoking meth and lead paint chips..

This is a story because the police have been caught out repeatedly lying. While the act itself is not hugely suprising, the degree and lack of contrition has been rather shocking.

I've no idea why you'd think the government and press cooked this up to bury the phone hacking scandal. The Levenson enquiry started in mid 2011, this happened in September 2012 when Levenson was already writing his report and it didn't become a major story until several months after, when it became apparent the police were lying.

If you're interested in the phone hacking (beyond weird conspiracy theorising) then you should keep an eye on the trial of Rebekah Brooks which started last week. It looks like it could provide enormous amounts of entertainment.
 
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