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(NBC News)   Two planes full of skydivers collide in midair. If only there were some way to...oh, I see. Nevermind then   (usnews.nbcnews.com ) divider line 56
    More: Obvious, Wisconsin, skydivers, Duluth News Tribune, collisions, NBC News  
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10938 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Nov 2013 at 8:27 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-03 08:30:09 AM  
Superior Wisconsin?

Drunk!
 
2013-11-03 08:32:47 AM  
I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.
 
2013-11-03 08:32:49 AM  
Stupid mobile site.
 
2013-11-03 08:33:36 AM  
Yes, but did Robinson have anything to say?
 
2013-11-03 08:34:44 AM  
Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.
 
2013-11-03 08:35:05 AM  

vodka: I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.


You have to get lucky with the vectors.
 
2013-11-03 08:35:50 AM  
makes sense, i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.  the sky is so narrow and cramped, there just isn't enough room up there for two planes at the same time.
 
2013-11-03 08:36:30 AM  

vodka: I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.



His arms. Arms are cray.
 
2013-11-03 08:37:05 AM  

vodka: I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.


Adrenaline. He probably couldn't recreate in on the ground no matter how hard he tries.
 
2013-11-03 08:37:58 AM  

poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.


I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.
 
2013-11-03 08:41:03 AM  
That, and recall that the people in this story are experienced skydivers, not Joe Schmoe coming back from a toothbrush conference in Tampa.
 
2013-11-03 08:41:23 AM  

poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.


too many people, not enough doors. take the clusterfark that is disembarking a plane and add in a healthy dose of panic. few people will actually get out, many more will be trampled, and the 400 pound lardass in the aisle seat won't be able to get more than 2 rows.
 
2013-11-03 08:43:34 AM  

poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.


Weight for one. Size for another. ( Do you want even less leg room? Higher fees?)

In a plane crash of a passenger jet, you would never have time to put on a parachute, and trying to bail out of the plane would probably end with you hitting the wing or the horizontal stabilizer and snapping your spine like a twig.

If you weren't crushed under a stampede of screaming, panicking passengers.

Besides, statistically, you are very likely to survive hitting the ground in a plane crash.  What kills most people in plane crashes are broken legs that prevent them from exiting the plane once it's on the ground, and then the smoke and fire from burning jet fuel consumes them.
 
2013-11-03 08:44:37 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

too many people, not enough doors. take the clusterfark that is disembarking a plane and add in a healthy dose of panic. few people will actually get out, many more will be trampled, and the 400 pound lardass in the aisle seat won't be able to get more than 2 rows.


so true.  they should hand out pistols instead.  it'd be like benny hill meets GTA.
 
2013-11-03 08:51:44 AM  

vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.


I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.
 
2013-11-03 08:59:51 AM  
I guess this answers the quip about jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
 
2013-11-03 09:04:10 AM  

wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.


Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.
 
2013-11-03 09:09:32 AM  
Back in 1977 when I was in my hey day of skydiving, we were on our way up to 12.5K feet in a Cessna 182.  We got up about 6K when the engine started spitting and sputtering.....  The pilot gave us the o.k. and me and 3 other jumpers unassed that plane.  The pilot nursed the plane back down to the landing strip.  Was exciting at the time.
 
2013-11-03 09:09:49 AM  
Didn't they consider personal escape pods for passenger planes a long time ago?  Their seat basically became an escape pod and each person would be ejected ensuring no one would die from a plane crashing.  Then the airlines looked at all the lost profits from the less packed seats and said fark it, let them die we have their money and added 300% per seats for more people to die.
 
2013-11-03 09:10:07 AM  

wildcardjack: Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet,


SOME are.

The more modern ones, particularly on carrier based jets, tend to work just fine at sea level.

I can't give you a list of what planes have seats that work at sea level, but they sure do exist.

Actually! I can name what is technically an aircraft with such an ejection seat.

The lunar lander test bed was such a dangerous and unstable machine 2 of the 3 made were crashed. One of them by Neil Armstrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlJGQ92IgFk   <--- at about 2:30, you can see neil punch out at about 50 feet above ground.
 
2013-11-03 09:12:58 AM  

FullMetalPanda: Didn't they consider personal escape pods for passenger planes a long time ago?  Their seat basically became an escape pod and each person would be ejected ensuring no one would die from a plane crashing.  Then the airlines looked at all the lost profits from the less packed seats and said fark it, let them die we have their money and added 300% per seats for more people to die.


Hahaha
 
2013-11-03 09:21:18 AM  

fluffy2097: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

Weight for one. Size for another. ( Do you want even less leg room? Higher fees?)

Besides, statistically, you are very likely to survive hitting the ground in a plane crash.  What kills most people in plane crashes are broken legs that prevent them from exiting the plane once it's on the ground, and then the smoke and fire from burning jet fuel consumes them.


Thanks for that.
 
2013-11-03 09:22:55 AM  

reveal101: Thanks for that.


You're welcome! Glad I could ease your mind about flying.

Remember. The exact same thing is true of car crashes, only you are FAR more likely to be involved in a car crash.
 
2013-11-03 09:26:34 AM  

buzzcut73: wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.

Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.


I'm stealing that.
 
2013-11-03 09:29:25 AM  

Egalitarian: I'm stealing that.


It's not the fall that kills you, It's that sudden stop at the end.

/The crew of the Challenger was alive, and (hopefully) unconscious all the way until the cabin hit the water.
//They have telemetry of the astronauts switching their O2 systems over as it broke up.
 
2013-11-03 09:30:48 AM  
And not one of them was wearing a gopro? I call BS.
 
2013-11-03 09:32:01 AM  

vodka: I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.


Yeah especially if it were spinning around at all. I'm impressed.
 
2013-11-03 09:44:35 AM  
"Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance."

I realize that they give evacuation speeches before the plane takes off, but I really don't want get on a flight where they actually give you a parachute pre-flight. "Yea, here's a parachute to drive home the point that we could suffer a major air accident."
 
2013-11-03 09:48:20 AM  

FullMetalPanda: Didn't they consider personal escape pods for passenger planes a long time ago?  Their seat basically became an escape pod and each person would be ejected ensuring no one would die from a plane crashing.  Then the airlines looked at all the lost profits from the less packed seats and said fark it, let them die we have their money and added 300% per seats for more people to die.


They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into.
 
2013-11-03 09:56:47 AM  

skinink: "Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance."

I realize that they give evacuation speeches before the plane takes off, but I really don't want get on a flight where they actually give you a parachute pre-flight. "Yea, here's a parachute to drive home the point that we could suffer a major air accident."


If something catastrophic happens at the high altitudes jets fly... the combination of thin air and cold is going to probably kill who ever does manage to fight their way to a door and get out....  The forces exerted on the passengers of a plane falling and that does manage to stay intact is going to prevent anyone from probably getting out of their seat.

It's just best just to trust the fact that passenger airline crashes are fairly rare and if you happen to be on one that is going to crash, you may as well shiat your pants and accept the fact that you were unlucky that day.
 
2013-11-03 09:56:50 AM  

wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.


Obviously, there are lots of situations where they're not high enough. But I was thinking of planes like American Airlines flight 587 of JAL flight 123 as far as situations where it could theoretically have helped. But someone opening a door on China Airlines flight 006 might have just killed everyone.
 
2013-11-03 09:57:29 AM  

buzzcut73: wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.

Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.


(audible expression of mirth)
 
2013-11-03 10:00:24 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

too many people, not enough doors. take the clusterfark that is disembarking a plane and add in a healthy dose of panic. few people will actually get out, many more will be trampled, and the 400 pound lardass in the aisle seat won't be able to get more than 2 rows.


That brings up the question of why aren't there more doors... Probably weight, again, since they have to withstand pressure, but it would make a lot more sense to have a smaller door every couple of rows...

/ponder
 
2013-11-03 10:03:18 AM  

vygramul: opening a door


You cannot open a door of a pressurized jetliner at altitude.

The doors open inwards, and they are sealed shut by differential pressure.

a 3 foot by 5 foot door with just 1PSI of differential pressure exerted on it has about a ton of force holding it in place

/yes, I did the math.
 
2013-11-03 10:11:28 AM  

buzzcut73: wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.

Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.


Not quite 100%, I know of at least one crash in air that the plane kept going and made it to an airfield.
 
2013-11-03 10:15:12 AM  

ladyfortuna: The_Original_Roxtar: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

too many people, not enough doors. take the clusterfark that is disembarking a plane and add in a healthy dose of panic. few people will actually get out, many more will be trampled, and the 400 pound lardass in the aisle seat won't be able to get more than 2 rows.

That brings up the question of why aren't there more doors... Probably weight, again, since they have to withstand pressure, but it would make a lot more sense to have a smaller door every couple of rows...

/ponder


With all the stress an airframe has to endure, each hole in it is just a failure point waiting to happen. DeHavilland found that out the hard way.
 
2013-11-03 10:22:51 AM  

tgambitg: buzzcut73: wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.

Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.

Not quite 100%, I know of at least one crash in air that the plane kept going and made it to an airfield.


There's also a story of a P-38 crashing into a German fighter over southern France during WWII. The pilot of the P-38 had to fly back to north Africa with one engine out. The German's flight ended with the crash, however.
 
2013-11-03 10:42:57 AM  

FullMetalPanda: Didn't they consider personal escape pods for passenger planes a long time ago?  Their seat basically became an escape pod and each person would be ejected ensuring no one would die from a plane crashing.  Then the airlines looked at all the lost profits from the less packed seats and said fark it, let them die we have their money and added 300% per seats for more people to die.


That is really, really stupid.
 
2013-11-03 10:44:55 AM  

vodka: I'm interested to hear how that one pilot managed to climb out of the fuselage while it was falling. That could not have been easy.


He had the lasagna.
 
2013-11-03 11:12:04 AM  

fluffy2097: vygramul: opening a door

You cannot open a door of a pressurized jetliner at altitude.

The doors open inwards, and they are sealed shut by differential pressure.

a 3 foot by 5 foot door with just 1PSI of differential pressure exerted on it has about a ton of force holding it in place

/yes, I did the math.


img.naij.com

But you're right anyway. The door has to be first moved inwards a smidge, which is basically impossible to do.
 
2013-11-03 11:14:44 AM  

Good Behavior Day: ladyfortuna: The_Original_Roxtar: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

too many people, not enough doors. take the clusterfark that is disembarking a plane and add in a healthy dose of panic. few people will actually get out, many more will be trampled, and the 400 pound lardass in the aisle seat won't be able to get more than 2 rows.

That brings up the question of why aren't there more doors... Probably weight, again, since they have to withstand pressure, but it would make a lot more sense to have a smaller door every couple of rows...

/ponder

With all the stress an airframe has to endure, each hole in it is just a failure point waiting to happen. DeHavilland found that out the hard way.


Yep. Having your plane fall apart around you would be rather alarming, I imagine.
 
2013-11-03 11:18:38 AM  

tgambitg: buzzcut73: wildcardjack: vygramul: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

I think it's because the number of people who would try to open a door or emergency exit to jump when it's unnecessary would be so high as to cause more death and injury than the parachutes would save. Not a lot of planes are in a situation where that would help.

I thought it was because, in civilian flight, 95% of airline crashes were at the start or end of flights. Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet, although they've seen some survivors of bad ejects at airshow crashes.

Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.

Not quite 100%, I know of at least one crash in air that the plane kept going and made it to an airfield.


Another example is the other plane in this story.
 
2013-11-03 11:27:52 AM  
Two planes full of skydivers collide in midair. If only there were some way to...

...finish this sentence in a way that would make sense?
 
2013-11-03 11:37:12 AM  

wodumedia.com

 
2013-11-03 12:20:18 PM  

fluffy2097: poe_zlaw: Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance.

Weight for one. Size for another. ( Do you want even less leg room? Higher fees?)

In a plane crash of a passenger jet, you would never have time to put on a parachute, and trying to bail out of the plane would probably end with you hitting the wing or the horizontal stabilizer and snapping your spine like a twig.

If you weren't crushed under a stampede of screaming, panicking passengers.

Besides, statistically, you are very likely to survive hitting the ground in a plane crash.  What kills most people in plane crashes are broken legs that prevent them from exiting the plane once it's on the ground, and then the smoke and fire from burning jet fuel consumes them.



4.bp.blogspot.com

you must be a blast at parties
 
2013-11-03 01:06:40 PM  

buzzcut73: Technically, 100% of airplane crashes are at the very end of the flight. Study it out.


Take offs are optional. Landings are mandatory.

Ron White:
Everybody else was panicking, but I'd been drinking since lunch, so I was like, "Take it down, I don't care." Ever have one of those days? "Hit somethin' hard, I don't wanna limp away from this piece of shiat." The guy sitting next to me is losing his mind; apparently, he had a lot to live for. He turns to me, he says "Hey man! [gasps for air] Hey, man! Hey, man! [gasps for air] If one of these engines fails, [gasps for air] how far will the other one take us?" [As himself]"All the way to the scene of the crash! Which is pretty handy, 'cause that's where we're headed. I bet we beat the paramedics there by a half-hour! We're haulin' ass!"
 
2013-11-03 01:16:50 PM  

fluffy2097: wildcardjack: Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet,

SOME are.

The more modern ones, particularly on carrier based jets, tend to work just fine at sea level.

I can't give you a list of what planes have seats that work at sea level, but they sure do exist.


it's called a zero/zero ejection system. You can eject (fairly) safely at 0 speed and 0 altitude. Which is handy for flame out just as you get catapulted over the water. The rocket in the chair is designed to take you high enough to deploy the chute in time.

Some quick google-fu yielded this cool video of the difference between two types of ejection systems.

The attack jets in GTA V have the first style, as I found out when I botched a landing and hit the 'exit' button on the burning craft. Franklin got spit out 20 feet behind the aircraft and landed on his head.
 
2013-11-03 01:17:30 PM  

vygramul: But you're right anyway. The door has to be first moved inwards a smidge, which is basically impossible to do.


Technically correct. Nothing beats it!
 
2013-11-03 01:24:17 PM  

bim1154: skinink: "Ill never understand why parachutes arent handed to all passengers of airplanes. I know it isnt fail safe, but any chance is better than no chance."

I realize that they give evacuation speeches before the plane takes off, but I really don't want get on a flight where they actually give you a parachute pre-flight. "Yea, here's a parachute to drive home the point that we could suffer a major air accident."

If something catastrophic happens at the high altitudes jets fly... the combination of thin air and cold is going to probably kill who ever does manage to fight their way to a door and get out....  The forces exerted on the passengers of a plane falling and that does manage to stay intact is going to prevent anyone from probably getting out of their seat.

It's just best just to trust the fact that passenger airline crashes are fairly rare and if you happen to be on one that is going to crash, you may as well shiat your pants and accept the fact that you were unlucky that day.


Not to mention that you CAN'T open a door in flight. They emergency and main doors open inwards, and with the plane pressurized, no one would be able to move them. At least until you got pretty low to the ground. Which is why I'm not impressed when I hear a story about some dude who goes crazy and tries to open the emergecy exit mid flight. "OMG he could have killed us all!" No he couldn't. Just let him tug at the door until he wears himself out at then bop him over the head with a coffee pot or something.
 
2013-11-03 01:24:57 PM  

MythDragon: fluffy2097: wildcardjack: Even ejection seats are iffy below a few thousand feet,

SOME are.

The more modern ones, particularly on carrier based jets, tend to work just fine at sea level.

I can't give you a list of what planes have seats that work at sea level, but they sure do exist.

it's called a zero/zero ejection system. You can eject (fairly) safely at 0 speed and 0 altitude. Which is handy for flame out just as you get catapulted over the water. The rocket in the chair is designed to take you high enough to deploy the chute in time.

Some quick google-fu yielded this cool video of the difference between two types of ejection systems.

The attack jets in GTA V have the first style, as I found out when I botched a landing and hit the 'exit' button on the burning craft. Franklin got spit out 20 feet behind the aircraft and landed on his head.


There were actually tests for ejection seats that worked even while inverted. But they found that the G-forces to get you clear and upright resulted in a system that would gently lower your lifeless body to the ground.
 
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