If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Opposing Views)   If you rule as a judge that a sex workers rape was only a "theft of services," you can bet on it that people will have a problem with your ruling   (opposingviews.com) divider line 115
    More: Asinine, sex workers, RH Reality Check, Philadelphia Daily News, miscarriage of justice  
•       •       •

7653 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Nov 2013 at 5:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



115 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-11-01 08:27:06 PM  
Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?
 
2013-11-01 10:49:47 PM  
I'm OK with this
 
2013-11-01 10:50:33 PM  

KawaiiNot: Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?


You know, I see this as a logical extension of the brand of feminism that says sex workers aren't victims, they're revolutionaries and what's wrong with them selling their own property?  Unless you're a patriarchal pig who thinks a woman's body is not her own...

So, yeah - if a sex worker takes that tack, then she shouldn't be surprised when a court buys in.

It's still stupid, though.
 
2013-11-01 11:32:29 PM  
"you get bet"?

lolwut?
 
2013-11-01 11:48:39 PM  

calbert: "you get bet"?

lolwut?


Premature posting dysfunction ?
 
2013-11-01 11:53:24 PM  
Meh - reminds me of when people get bent out of shape arguing about whether something is a "hate crime" or just a regular plain old crime.
 
2013-11-01 11:55:35 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: calbert: "you get bet"?

lolwut?

Premature posting dysfunction ?


ahhh... PPD. sorry to mention it. it was hardly noticeable. I have a cousin with that, if you didn't know that about him, you'd never be able to tell.

;)
 
2013-11-02 12:02:59 AM  

Triumph: Meh - reminds me of when people get bent out of shape arguing about whether something is a "hate crime" or just a regular plain old crime.


Are you implying that there's no difference between raping a sex worker and shoplifting, or am I reading too much into your post?
 
2013-11-02 12:06:54 AM  
Being a judge doesn't mean you can be judgemental
 
2013-11-02 12:48:24 AM  
If the men had told her they would pay her afterwards, then had sex with her and didn't pay I would call that theft of services.

But according to the article that wasn't what happened. The men said they weren't going to pay, the woman said then she wouldn't have sex, and then they forced her to at gun point. That's rape.

The actual sexual experiences are much different in the two scenarios.
 
2013-11-02 12:55:52 AM  

Krieghund: If the men had told her they would pay her afterwards, then had sex with her and didn't pay I would call that theft of services.

But according to the article that wasn't what happened. The men said they weren't going to pay, the woman said then she wouldn't have sex, and then they forced her to at gun point. That's rape.

The actual sexual experiences are much different in the two scenarios.


Yeah, very.  Sex at gunpoint is rape regardless.

This has taught me a valuable lesson:
Pay her, fark her, then catch her before she gets in her car and rob her at gunpoint to get your money back.  Then it really IS just theft.
 
2013-11-02 01:36:58 AM  
Theft of an illegal service?  How is that legally enforceable?
 
2013-11-02 01:42:43 AM  

Shedim: Triumph: Meh - reminds me of when people get bent out of shape arguing about whether something is a "hate crime" or just a regular plain old crime.

Are you implying that there's no difference between raping a sex worker and shoplifting, or am I reading too much into your post?


The judge didn't call it shoplifting, she called it armed robbery. Pulling a gun on somebody and threatening their life ought to be the main issue.
 
2013-11-02 01:53:53 AM  
The whole "held at gunpoint" thing should definitely make it rape.

However, if a guy screws a prostitute, and then refuses to pay, I'd say no crime took place. She did consent to the sex, with the belief that she would get paid. He refused to pay her, but she still consented. However, money for sex is not something that a contract can be formed for in most jurisdictions, so no contract would exist, and there would be no theft of services either.
 
2013-11-02 02:04:40 AM  

Sid_6.7: The whole "held at gunpoint" thing should definitely make it rape.

However, if a guy screws a prostitute, and then refuses to pay, I'd say no crime took place. She did consent to the sex, with the belief that she would get paid. He refused to pay her, but she still consented. However, money for sex is not something that a contract can be formed for in most jurisdictions, so no contract would exist, and there would be no theft of services either.


That's why they always ask for the money up front..


/From what I hear about people who engage in that sort of thing.
 
2013-11-02 02:09:11 AM  

Triumph: Shedim: Triumph: Meh - reminds me of when people get bent out of shape arguing about whether something is a "hate crime" or just a regular plain old crime.

Are you implying that there's no difference between raping a sex worker and shoplifting, or am I reading too much into your post?

The judge didn't call it shoplifting, she called it armed robbery. Pulling a gun on somebody and threatening their life ought to be the main issue.


No, the main issue is that someone was raped at gunpoint. The fact that the victim happened to be a prostitute is irrelevant - you can't consent to sex if your only choices are "let me fark you or die." Reducing a rape to an "armed robbery" or a "theft of services" trivialises a very serious crime and shows no concern for the bodily autonomy of the woman concerned.
 
2013-11-02 02:25:39 AM  

Shedim: Reducing a rape to an "armed robbery" or a "theft of services" trivialises a very serious crime


No you are trivializing armed robbery. Threatening someone with a gun is a life and death matter. I disagree with the judge's logic on not calling it rape, but I agree with her that the gun crime is the main issue. There's a difference between getting in a fist fight and having your face pounded while a gun is held on you.
 
2013-11-02 02:30:06 AM  
Let's not turn this rape into a murder.
 
2013-11-02 02:31:30 AM  

Triumph: No you are trivializing armed robbery. Threatening someone with a gun is a life and death matter. I disagree with the judge's logic on not calling it rape, but I agree with her that the gun crime is the main issue. There's a difference between getting in a fist fight and having your face pounded while a gun is held on you.


I see - we seem to have different interpretations on what the "main issue" is.

Why do you think the gun crime is the major issue, compared to the rape?
 
2013-11-02 02:36:44 AM  
I've heard this joke before.

Wait, this isn't a joke?
 
2013-11-02 02:45:32 AM  

Shedim: Triumph: No you are trivializing armed robbery. Threatening someone with a gun is a life and death matter. I disagree with the judge's logic on not calling it rape, but I agree with her that the gun crime is the main issue. There's a difference between getting in a fist fight and having your face pounded while a gun is held on you.

I see - we seem to have different interpretations on what the "main issue" is.

Why do you think the gun crime is the major issue, compared to the rape?


Because her life was unquestionably threatened. That makes it the top crime. The judge's logic apparently is that she already had conspired with the men to commit a sex crime, so she's looking at it like it's comparable to a drug deal gone bad or something. Yeah, that's messed up, but the main thing still is that he brought a gun to the party and threatened her life.
 
2013-11-02 03:05:50 AM  

Triumph: Shedim: Triumph: No you are trivializing armed robbery. Threatening someone with a gun is a life and death matter. I disagree with the judge's logic on not calling it rape, but I agree with her that the gun crime is the main issue. There's a difference between getting in a fist fight and having your face pounded while a gun is held on you.

I see - we seem to have different interpretations on what the "main issue" is.

Why do you think the gun crime is the major issue, compared to the rape?

Because her life was unquestionably threatened. That makes it the top crime. The judge's logic apparently is that she already had conspired with the men to commit a sex crime, so she's looking at it like it's comparable to a drug deal gone bad or something. Yeah, that's messed up, but the main thing still is that he brought a gun to the party and threatened her life.


Okay, I can follow that logic, and I still agree that the judge is showing terrible logic by dismissing the rape charges. To me, however, the judge is implicitly saying that the presence of a firearm is more important than the rape of a woman; that the presence of a weapon is, as far as her interpretation of the law is concerned, more important than the rape.

Frankly, a rapist doesn't need a gun to rape someone; the guy was likely to rape her no matter what weapon he brought with him. You can threaten someone's life with your bare hands. That's why I see the rape as the main issue, because it was going to happen no matter what; the presence of a firearm, while a notable issue, is not the principal crime that occurred.

Not only that, but dismissing the rape charges stinks of "blaming the victim" - the judge is implicitly saying that if she hadn't been a prostitute she wouldn't have been raped, that the perpetrators transgressions against polite society are more important than what the perpetrator actually did to the victim. That's why I said that I felt it was trivialising rape before.
 
2013-11-02 03:26:26 AM  
they couldn't legally consent to committing a crime because the men were drunk. that woman took advantage of them.

drunk means you cant consent to something. period.
 
2013-11-02 03:54:06 AM  
She's already a dirty slut, so she deserves to be punished. Like OPEC for pussy, you have to limit the supply to keep prices high.
 
2013-11-02 04:09:30 AM  
Why not both?
 
2013-11-02 04:48:12 AM  
theinfosphere.org
 
2013-11-02 05:00:01 AM  
No Cyril, when they're in court, they're just "sex workers".
 
2013-11-02 05:33:54 AM  

jaylectricity: Let's not turn this rape into a murder.


now we're talking.
 
2013-11-02 05:46:05 AM  
"Activist organization Pussy Division sent an email"

My new band name, I copyrighted it here.
 
GBB
2013-11-02 05:55:42 AM  
We took a report a couple weeks ago.  Cab driver says that he was called to pick a guy up and take him 20 miles up the highway.  Cab driver showed up, picked up the guy and drove him 20 miles.  Guy then asks the cab driver to take him to another location.  upon arrival at the other location, Guy asks cab driver to take him to a 3rd location.  Cab driver gets suspicious and asks if they guy can pay.  Guy pulls out gun and threatens the cab driver and demand he take him to the 3rd location.  Cab driver does, guy leaves the cab and doesn't pay.

What is this?
A) Theft of services.
B) Armed robbery.
C) Kidnapping.

Compare your answer to TFA.
 
2013-11-02 06:05:11 AM  

DemonEater: Yeah, very.  Sex at gunpoint is rape regardless


I seem to remember some Soprano scene where sis got off on that sort of thing.
 
HBK
2013-11-02 06:10:36 AM  

GBB: We took a report a couple weeks ago.  Cab driver says that he was called to pick a guy up and take him 20 miles up the highway.  Cab driver showed up, picked up the guy and drove him 20 miles.  Guy then asks the cab driver to take him to another location.  upon arrival at the other location, Guy asks cab driver to take him to a 3rd location.  Cab driver gets suspicious and asks if they guy can pay.  Guy pulls out gun and threatens the cab driver and demand he take him to the 3rd location.  Cab driver does, guy leaves the cab and doesn't pay.

What is this?
A) Theft of services.
B) Armed robbery.
C) Kidnapping.

Compare your answer to TFA.


A and C.
 
2013-11-02 06:20:58 AM  

KawaiiNot: Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?


Oh, we're being racist. Ok.
 
2013-11-02 06:21:02 AM  
Did the judge forget that you can convict a person or persons for multiple crimes stemming from the same incident?  If I rob a bank with a handgun, then steal a car on my getaway, do the other charges just disappear because of the "assault with a deadly weapon"?

/the answer is "no, no they do not"
 
2013-11-02 06:24:04 AM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
Sorry gents but it's always rape until the lady gets paid and even then............and because of the "shield" laws it doesn't matter how many prostitution busts she has on her rap sheet, your defense lawyer can't ask about them.
 
2013-11-02 06:30:50 AM  

Triumph: Meh - reminds me of when people get bent out of shape arguing about whether something is a "hate crime" or just a regular plain old crime.


The motivation behind assault is rarely goodwill.
 
2013-11-02 06:31:02 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: KawaiiNot: Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?

You know, I see this as a logical extension of the brand of feminism that says sex workers aren't victims, they're revolutionaries and what's wrong with them selling their own property?  Unless you're a patriarchal pig who thinks a woman's body is not her own...

So, yeah - if a sex worker takes that tack, then she shouldn't be surprised when a court buys in.

It's still stupid, though.


Of course it's stupid because it is nothing more than a phantom of your fevered imaginings.

There are no feminists who think sex workers can't get raped because "they're not victims".  It is not a "logical extension" of any kind of feminism except in your enfeebled brain.  Thinking a woman's body is her own does not ever lead to the conclusion that she can't be raped, in fact it will always lead to the exact opposite conclusion.
 I live in a country where prostitution is legal.  If someone commits or forces a sex act on a prostitute (of any gender) to which they did not consent it's still rape.  In fact coercing sex from a prostitute even in the absence of something meeting the legal definition of "rape" will land you in jail for up to 14 years in these here parts.
 
2013-11-02 06:31:48 AM  

armor helix: KawaiiNot: Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?

Oh, we're being racist. Ok.


no kidding. when I think "judge" the image of a young, black, lesbian is always the first thing that comes to mind. what kind of a sick mind would assume a judge in America would be an old white person??

damn racists make me sick.
 
2013-11-02 06:45:22 AM  
"She went to a North Philadelphia home on Sept. 20 to meet Gindraw, who had agreed to pay her $150 for sex. He then said a friend was coming with the money and that the friend would pay her another $100 to perform sex acts.
Instead, three other men arrived, and Gindraw pulled a gun and ordered the woman to have sex with all of them, she testified. "He said that I'm going to do this for free, and I'm not going nowhere, and I better cooperate or he was going to kill me," she testified at a preliminary hearing."


http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=5735923

I don't see how this isn't rape since she clearly did not consent to this scenario and her her life was being threatened at gunpoint. Doesn't get more "coercive" than this. Fark this judge to hell.
 
2013-11-02 06:50:47 AM  
So if I go into Wendy's and rip off the cashiers arm and eat it, it is theft of services too?
 
2013-11-02 07:01:24 AM  

SpdrJay: So if I go into Wendy's and rip off the cashiers arm and eat it, it is theft of services too?


Only if the cashier's arm was originally available for purchase.
 
2013-11-02 07:10:25 AM  
+1 subby!   Missing FlashLV?
 
2013-11-02 07:20:39 AM  

suebhoney:  Missing FlashLV?


wow. there's a name I haven't seen in forever
 
2013-11-02 07:21:35 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: KawaiiNot: Let me guess: The judge is old, white and... a women?

Really?

You know, I see this as a logical extension of the brand of feminism that says sex workers aren't victims, they're revolutionaries and what's wrong with them selling their own property?  Unless you're a patriarchal pig who thinks a woman's body is not her own...

So, yeah - if a sex worker takes that tack, then she shouldn't be surprised when a court buys in.

It's still stupid, though.


No, I think it's the other brand of feminism...the one so deep in the "objectifying women" tack that they end up being just as bad on women who have sex for pleasure as any right-wing Republican, only from the opposite direction.
 
2013-11-02 07:29:10 AM  
So by that line of thinking, once a woman agrees to sex she can no longer withdraw consent? I mean, that's what the Judge is saying right?  She agreed to sex, so she's obligated to it, and if the terms of the sex change than it's a contract dispute?
 
2013-11-02 07:34:00 AM  
A judge made a scary ruling and our primary goal is that we are gonna use it to bash our political opponents with it?

Jesus farking Christ, people. This kind of talk is bullshiat because we lose focus on who was wrong in this.

The Judge did this.

This is on the judge

She deserves to be tossed out on her ass

Putting this as left v right is gonna ensure that people come to vote for her reelection

Please let this one go
 
2013-11-02 07:36:17 AM  
This is why we need the 10 Commandments in our court rooms.
 
2013-11-02 07:36:22 AM  
First article said one guy and he called his buddy.

Second article said there were multiple men,

So how many did she end up with at the end?
 
2013-11-02 07:39:51 AM  

ZzeusS: First article said one guy and he called his buddy.

Second article said there were multiple men,

So how many did she end up with at the end?


multiple just means more than one.

the articles to not disagree with each other
 
2013-11-02 07:50:42 AM  
Didn't read the article... But do you seriously mean to tell me that a judge legally instituted the old "raping a hooker is just shoplifting" joke..? For real..?
 
Displayed 50 of 115 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report