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(Politico)   Politico finally wakes up and realizes that years of constant sabotage by Republicans might have actually contributed to Obamacare's rocky rollout   (politico.com) divider line 155
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Republicans, Health and Human Services Department, Frank Pallone, health law, factual basis, 36th state  
•       •       •

3108 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2013 at 4:51 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



155 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-01 07:56:51 PM

Corvus: havocmike: Listen, I'm not sure how to break this to you guys, but most Americans really don't care about the site's problems. Sure they're upset/celebrating it depending on their leanings, but the real story here is the increase in rates for just about everyone else.

You have any like actual data to back that up? Or just think repeating something enough makes it true?


My brother's best friends grandmother's next door neighbor tried to buy FartBongoCommieCare with a two dollar bill, and the assistant manager called mall security.
 
2013-11-01 07:57:33 PM

qorkfiend: andersoncouncil42: FTA: "To the undisputed reasons for Obamacare's rocky rollout - a balky website, muddied White House messaging and sudden sticker shock for individuals forced to buy more expensive health insurance"

While there are many good points, the article fails in the first sentence. Unmitigated bullshiat.

Well, I suppose if you refuse to take subsidies it could be true. It would also be entirely your fault, but since when have the Teabaggers been known for personal responsibility?


Or don't qualify for them or don't qualify for enough to offset the difference
 
2013-11-01 07:58:32 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Obamacare Defense Brigade, assemble!!


I promise, I'll never vote for him again.
 
2013-11-01 08:01:29 PM

jso2897: Debeo Summa Credo: Obamacare Defense Brigade, assemble!!

I promise, I'll never vote for him again.


But ACORN is still going to vote for him with seventeen fraudulent pimp votes for every real american vote, so he'll be president forever!
 
2013-11-01 08:53:01 PM

bestie1: Don't worry i got a dozen sock puppets ready. Let's all pretend we thin SCOAMF is a racist term. Stuttering is a racist stereotype of black people isn't it. I man I knew a black person once and he stuttered. Well i didn't really know her but she was in my gym. She wasn't really a member because it was in Georgetown and you know they can't afford to live there but she worked there and anyway she had a stutter. I used to make fun of her to my BFF Shelly. Her name was Tiffany and I used to call her Ta Ta Ta Tiffany to Shelly even though she was black. So there that is a stereotype and the evil Teabaggers are racist for using it in public.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-11-01 09:20:05 PM
 
2013-11-01 09:23:08 PM
I'm waiting for the first story about Republican operatives getting busted for trying to hack the system.
 
2013-11-01 09:29:46 PM

FlashHarry:


I made a bet with myself that this would be first. I won... And lost.
 
2013-11-01 09:32:29 PM

tira: While I understand the sentiment, this presupposes an opinion of the Republican Party's organization and forward thinking that I can't possibly give them credit for.


You don't need forward thinking to wreck things.

Their entire plan is:

1) Break government.
2) Complain that government doesn't work.
3) Blame Obama.
 
2013-11-01 10:17:04 PM
Okay. I'll try to lay this out as even-handedly as I can. Will you listen? Will you put aside the partisan derp, for a few moments? Okay.

First, today I learned Cletus C. is a human being. In all the years I've been Farking... I'm not sure I've seen a post like that, not even during Weaver's slow transformation. So... thank you for reminding me that no matter what our partisan differences, if we're patriots and are willing to think, even if we're deeply divided by politics, and even if we disagree on almost anything, we can agree on some things.

Second, the administration has to answer some questions about Healthcare.gov. Secretary Sebelius and President Obama need to answer for what's happened. Now, they've both said that they're willing to take responsibility, and considering their past actions I'm willing to accept that. But it actually has to admit responsibility.

Third, while the administration bears responsibility and needs to answer for the failures at healthcare.gov, we need to keep perspective.Few government programs have a perfect initial rollout. Can you name a government program that has been perfect the first time out? There's a reason we turn to government when other approaches fail; I know some of Fark's more socialist Farkers will disagree, but the default position, I think, should generally be to employ the free market when we can. In this case, the free market as it has been failed us. Medicare Part D had a bad rollout; Social Security had an imperfect rollout; Medicare was seriously threatened in its first decade; the Earned Income Tax Credit is still dealing with issues. Remember, we passed the Affordable Care Act because the market was broken. I have always maintained that the ACA was not my first choice, that single-payer or a public option have always been demonstrably more efficient... but by God the health care market was broken and the country needed help.

Fourth, you don't have to excuse the administration to identify where Republicans have failed to be patriots. Republican governors refused to expand Medicaid specifically to harm Democrats and the poor. They refused to set up state exchanges specifically to harm Democrats and the poor. In my own state, it was only the governor's decision to stop being a useless farktard for a moment and override the state senate that allowed my state to set up an exchange... an exchange which was working just fine within a week and a half of the start of the sign-up period. Republicans have refused to allow Democrats to even bring to a vote a bill to fix a provision in the law that unintentionally have harmed pastors across the country - despite that it is harming people in God's work - for no other reason than it hates Obama. So don't tell me Republicans don't bear a lot of responsibility for this. Democrats might have reached, and failed, but Republicans are actively trying to make it fail by hurting anyone they can. There is no equivalency here. No "both sides are the same." They are actively trying to do evil.

Fifth, for all that the ACA was our last hope, the authors had the foresight (rare in our modern government, so this is no small praise) to know that the initial rollout would be bumpy. So now we have five whole months to sign up for health insurance before we no longer get our tax benefit. Five whole months. There are many people who have gotten married in less time, and people are giving the government crap for not getting everything completely fixed in less than a third of the available time? Relax.

I'll thank President Obama, the non-useless Democrats in Congress, and the Heritage Foundation (much to their chagrin) for making it possible for me to be insured when two years ago (despite having only the mildest of pre-existing conditions) I couldn't buy insurance. I'll thank them for helping my Tea Party-loving uncle stop pretending to be part of a union (the worst thing possible for a life-long Republican) and get insurance on the exchanges for his family. Things don't have to be perfect or even to start off on the right foot to be good. So take off your partisan blinders for a second and celebrate the fact that despite failure - failure which must be answered - we are trying to fix our broken health system.
 
2013-11-01 10:22:32 PM

bestie1: Don't worry i got a dozen sock puppets ready. Let's all pretend we thin SCOAMF is a racist term. Stuttering is a racist stereotype of black people isn't it. I man I knew a black person once and he stuttered. Well i didn't really know her but she was in my gym. She wasn't really a member because it was in Georgetown and you know they can't afford to live there but she worked there and anyway she had a stutter. I used to make fun of her to my BFF Shelly. Her name was Tiffany and I used to call her Ta Ta Ta Tiffany to Shelly even though she was black. So there that is a stereotype and the evil Teabaggers are racist for using it in public.


www.memoryedge.com
 
2013-11-01 11:02:03 PM

Dinjiin: DeltaXi65: Governors opting out of health exchanges shouldn't have had much of an impact, considering most of those decisions were made years ago.

It could also be said that they failed to put in the proper budget and time allotments with relation to the number of states that would end up using the federal system.  When they passed the bill, they had lower estimates on the number of states that would participate in the federal marketplace.  Since it was impossible to add more time or money after the fact, they kinda hamstrung themselves.


Right. The law as originally written had both carrots and sticks to get the states to opt in and not use the federal exchanges.  Once the Supreme Court struck down the sticks as being unconstitutional coersion, that resulted in far more states than anyone expected opting out.  At that point, it was too late to fix the problem because the House had flipped.
 
2013-11-01 11:06:55 PM

captainktainer: Fourth, you don't have to excuse the administration to identify where Republicans have failed to be patriots. Republican governors refused to expand Medicaid specifically to harm Democrats and the poor.


That's ridiculous, on it's face.  The reason why many Republican governors have refused to expand Medicaid has nothing to do with harming the poor.  They recognize that the expansion locks them in to the Federally mandated guidelines for eligibility, and while the federal government will pay for all of the difference in cost between the existing eligibility criteria and the expanded criteria, that amount drops down to 90% in the out years, and there is nothing to stop Congress from changing that allocation down the road, either.  At that point, states will be locked in and will have to make up the difference through their own general funds.

Since many states have balanced budget requirements, that means either those states raise taxes - and they'll have to raise them on everybody, not just the rich - or they'll have to cut the largest programs in most state budgets, which are education, welfare benefits and public safety.  This isn't a cut and dried "they didn't do this because they're evil" kind of argument. There are very valid arguments as to why it's a bad idea to accept the medicaid expansion, and many of those arguments include protecting the poor, not hurting them.  The working poor are most hard hit by state tax increases, public services cuts, and the like.
 
2013-11-01 11:07:11 PM
If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.
 
2013-11-01 11:16:50 PM

Gyrfalcon: If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.


winblow$$$
 
2013-11-01 11:52:42 PM

Gyrfalcon: If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.


Windows ME?
Vista?
Windows 8?

None of those were truly fixed...it was the next version that fixed them.

So, it's the Republican's fault.  Color me shocked that they'd get blamed since the Obama administration is held blameless for anything.  The GOP sucks and all, but seriously...own up to your mistakes just once.

My buddy is a high end developer in the Bay area...and he was amazed that NONE of the big companies that build highly scalable applications were consulted for healthcare.gov.  Not Google, Not Oracle, Not Facebook...none of them.  And if they were asked, any of them could have done it right for a lot less.
 
2013-11-01 11:56:39 PM
ya think?
 
2013-11-02 12:02:31 AM

slayer199: Gyrfalcon: If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.

Windows ME?
Vista?
Windows 8?

None of those were truly fixed...it was the next version that fixed them.

So, it's the Republican's fault.  Color me shocked that they'd get blamed since the Obama administration is held blameless for anything.  The GOP sucks and all, but seriously...own up to your mistakes just once.

My buddy is a high end developer in the Bay area...and he was amazed that NONE of the big companies that build highly scalable applications were consulted for healthcare.gov.  Not Google, Not Oracle, Not Facebook...none of them.  And if they were asked, any of them could have done it right for a lot less.


Could they have done it right?  Yes.
Could they have done it for a lot less? Yes
Would they have done it for a lot less? Not a chance in hell.

Also, they would've needed more time..........honestly though I'd love to see what the usecases for the system design were, and more importantly their testing matrix.
 
2013-11-02 12:10:49 AM

SamFlagg: Also, they would've needed more time..........honestly though I'd love to see what the usecases for the system design were, and more importantly their testing matrix.


What testing?  :)
 
2013-11-02 12:20:20 AM

slayer199: SamFlagg: Also, they would've needed more time..........honestly though I'd love to see what the usecases for the system design were, and more importantly their testing matrix.

What testing?  :)


You know, by testers.

Not developers of course, everyone knows that developers don't have to test their code.
 
2013-11-02 12:44:12 AM
Teabagger: "Helping with coding? HELL yeah, deal me in! Conservtives are SMRT"

/breaks out the microsoft word and wants to know why clippy doesn't have an "implement health care for 26 recalcitrant states" button
 
2013-11-02 12:51:10 AM

SamFlagg: You know, by testers.

Not developers of course, everyone knows that developers don't have to test their code.


Wow, what an amazing concept.  I'm a Systems Engineer (VMware).  All I know is that devs HATE testing (it's always the server, network, etc...that's the problem), but they hate getting negative feedback from everyone when their code breaks.  Apparently, that's not a problem if you're a government contractor and you've already got paid.

Wiki has a pretty detailed article on something called software testing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing

It seems like that may catch on someday.
 
2013-11-02 12:58:53 AM

slayer199: SamFlagg: You know, by testers.

Not developers of course, everyone knows that developers don't have to test their code.

Wow, what an amazing concept.  I'm a Systems Engineer (VMware).  All I know is that devs HATE testing (it's always the server, network, etc...that's the problem), but they hate getting negative feedback from everyone when their code breaks.  Apparently, that's not a problem if you're a government contractor and you've already got paid.

Wiki has a pretty detailed article on something called software testing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing

It seems like that may catch on someday.


Pssh as if.  All I know is when I put something in a use case, it's really just a suggestion.  Even if I use the word 'requirement'
 
2013-11-02 01:25:59 AM
 
2013-11-02 01:50:52 AM
But settle down and realize that,aside from having a football team which will in all likelihood go Bowling, DOOK SUCKS!
 
2013-11-02 03:06:25 AM

havocmike: Listen, I'm not sure how to break this to you guys, but most Americans really don't care about the site's problems. Sure they're upset/celebrating it depending on their leanings, but the real story here is the increase in rates COVERAGE for just about everyone else.


FTFY

The lower rates you might have been paying [citation needed] were for a piece of paper from Billy Bob's Insurance and Feed Store, and not for real insurance... you know, the kind that actually HELPS YOU when you are sick or injured. You have been scammed every time you wrote that premium check, and yet that is not what you're angry about.

Do you like getting f*cked by corporations?
 
2013-11-02 03:46:34 AM

Cletus C.: If Republicans were truly out to undermine the ACA they would have tried to kill it through legislation, legal action or run a presidential candidate who promised to kill it.

So, this is obviously more left-wing propaganda.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-02 03:49:56 AM

Cletus C.: Gyrfalcon: Cletus C.: If Republicans were truly out to undermine the ACA they would have tried to kill it through legislation, legal action or run a presidential candidate who promised to kill it.

So, this is obviously more left-wing propaganda.

You mean like they did?

Oh come on. I'm not that bad.

I saw my father lose his job, start his own business with no health coverage and suffer an illness that racked up hundreds of thousands in medical bills. I saw the stress of those bills exacerbate his medical problems and I watched him die.

A proud, successful man most of his life and a health care system in this country that left him behind. A disgrace. I knew that farked up system needed fixing but I saw politicians screeching about "socialized medicine" every time attempts were made. And I saw special interests step up to kill every attempt to fix it.

It should never have been that way with my father and wouldn't have been if the ACA were in effect when he was alive. So, I will poke fun at the failures with healthcare.gov and challenge the blindly faithful when they defend any and all flaws, but I will not, ever, criticize the good intentions of the ACA. Those are good, patriotic and necessary. And I will not, ever, root for its failure.

This message has been brought to you by me. Don't ever make me act this way again.


OH CRAP DUDE.

I'm sorry :(
 
2013-11-02 03:58:36 AM

Gyrfalcon: If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.


A month? I won't be judging ACA until this time next year, and will base that judgment on facts I've verified FOR MYSELF - not based on the screechings of "Wolf!!" from people who have only been able to show me toy poodles or nothing when they have screeched wolf in the past.
It's like we have become an "instant gratification" society - are there no adults left?
 
2013-11-02 04:59:59 AM

slayer199: SamFlagg: Also, they would've needed more time..........honestly though I'd love to see what the usecases for the system design were, and more importantly their testing matrix.

What testing?  :)


Well, you know the REAL problem with the ACA site is that, even though it was created by the Obama administration is that it was still created by...the government. Which is still the government. Which can't do anything right the first time no matter who's sitting in the Oval Office. Really, the miracle is that healthcare.gov works as well as it DOES.

You know as well as I do that what we're seeing now isn't so much "rollout" as 'beta testing". In fact, if you think of this past month as beta testing, it's actually just about on track for a 2014 release date.
 
2013-11-02 05:09:48 AM

mr lawson: [pbs.twimg.com image 601x601]

bahahhahahahahahahah!!!!!


Why is it that only right-wingers are so butthurt over this?

I haven't seen a single Obama supporter here react with anything other than understanding while continuing to pledge that ACA is still a good idea.

Just pointing that out. Bonus: you don't get any points defending douchebags. I believe they call that "useful idiocy."
 
2013-11-02 07:38:52 AM

DeltaXi65: That's ridiculous, on it's face.  The reason why many Republican governors have refused to expand Medicaid has nothing to do with harming the poor.


That's right. Nothing at all to do with harming the poor.
 
2013-11-02 08:15:10 AM

whidbey: I haven't seen a single Obama supporter here react with anything other than understanding while continuing to pledge that ACA is still a good idea.


That constitutes fellatio on the part of Libturds.  SLURP SLURP SLURP!
 
2013-11-02 09:33:08 AM

whidbey: mr lawson: [pbs.twimg.com image 601x601]

bahahhahahahahahahah!!!!!

Why is it that only right-wingers are so butthurt over this?

I haven't seen a single Obama supporter here react with anything other than understanding while continuing to pledge that ACA is still a good idea.

Just pointing that out. Bonus: you don't get any points defending douchebags. I believe they call that "useful idiocy."


You haven't seen any Obama supporter do anything but downplay the dictionary definition cluster fark that's been the website's rollout and this is somehow meaningful for you?
Well, first of all, that's not true. Those Dems who remember what dignity smells like have been honest. Those of them like you utterly lack any self respect or honesty and hence the spin. Glad I could explain that for you HURR DURR BUTTHURT I CAN HAZ OBVIOUS EXPLANATIONS

Farking dope
 
2013-11-02 09:39:31 AM
Wow we sure do have a lot of this thread
 
2013-11-02 09:49:45 AM

Gyrfalcon: If everyone would just shutthef*ckup for about a month, most likely the problems would sort themselves out, like the last release of Windows.


Why not wait another month before rolling it out?
 
2013-11-02 11:29:06 AM
The site\roll out failed for two distinct related reasons.. requirement changes right up to the last minute and lack of testing ( a universal problem in software ). You can't just willy nilly change requirements a couple weeks out and expect for things to roll out as expected. There is far far too much reliance on user testing in software these days... I've fought for 5 years for my company to hire one QA person.. one, just one please? Our users shouldn't be finding bugs. we should find the bugs first, and fix them before the users ever see them.

//gah..  you guys just had to get me going on this. ok. rant off.
 
2013-11-02 12:35:28 PM
Cletus C.:

This message has been brought to you by me. Don't ever make me act this way again.

Sometimes your postings seem "not sure if troll", but they are never derp and sometimes just plain insightful, so I am compelled to favorite you.  Still undecided if color scheme should indicate "smart troll" or "reasonable conservative".  Somehow I feel you will consider this some sort of success.
 
2013-11-02 01:02:58 PM

incendi: DeltaXi65: That's ridiculous, on it's face.  The reason why many Republican governors have refused to expand Medicaid has nothing to do with harming the poor.

That's right. Nothing at all to do with harming the poor.


That article says nothing about harming the poor.
 
2013-11-02 01:08:52 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-11-02 01:33:39 PM

Mrbogey: Remove old talking point: "There are no problems with the rollout."


Seriously? I mean... seriously?  I've been following this story in the news and here on Fark since the first day, and I have not seen even one single person say "There are no problems with the rollout." Not one.

What on god's earth would make you spout such an obvious, transparent, and utterly moronic lie? I mean, holy shiat, that's the stupidest thing I've seen you post in days. There is just no way you're not trolling, and even if you aren't, you're just too goddamned dumb to take seriously. Henceforth, you will be known to me as "The stupidest person on FarK. Congratulations, and you're welcome
 
2013-11-02 01:36:32 PM

skullkrusher: bestie1: Don't worry i got a dozen sock puppets ready. Let's all pretend we thin SCOAMF is a racist term. Stuttering is a racist stereotype of black people isn't it. I man I knew a black person once and he stuttered. Well i didn't really know her but she was in my gym. She wasn't really a member because it was in Georgetown and you know they can't afford to live there but she worked there and anyway she had a stutter. I used to make fun of her to my BFF Shelly. Her name was Tiffany and I used to call her Ta Ta Ta Tiffany to Shelly even though she was black. So there that is a stereotype and the evil Teabaggers are racist for using it in public.

What?


Just put him on ignore. I've had him flagged as " 'teenage girl with a black friend' gimmick troll " for years
 
2013-11-02 02:19:20 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Mrbogey: Remove old talking point: "There are no problems with the rollout."

Seriously? I mean... seriously?  I've been following this story in the news and here on Fark since the first day, and I have not seen even one single person say "There are no problems with the rollout." Not one.

What on god's earth would make you spout such an obvious, transparent, and utterly moronic lie? I mean, holy shiat, that's the stupidest thing I've seen you post in days. There is just no way you're not trolling, and even if you aren't, you're just too goddamned dumb to take seriously. Henceforth, you will be known to me as "The stupidest person on FarK. Congratulations, and you're welcome



Better/Worse drugs than I have.
 
2013-11-02 02:22:37 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: What on god's earth would make you spout such an obvious, transparent, and utterly moronic lie?


Obama derangement syndrome.
 
2013-11-02 02:39:19 PM
Ya know what really frosts my balls? Obama has said before, during, and AFTER this law went into effect that people who were happy with their plan could keep it. And it's just simply NOT TRUE no matter HOW anyone tries to spin it. The latest spin is, "What he meant was if your previous plan was equal to or better than the lowest cost ACA plan you could keep it." So my question is, why the hell didn't he say that in the FIRST place? And why does he KEEP omitting that disclaimer to this very day?
 
2013-11-02 02:58:46 PM
A thinking person can only come to one of two conclusions;

1:  He's got no clue about what's going on with his 'signature' law.
2:  He doesn't care about anyone other than himself, can't admit he may have made a mistake, and f-u because he knows what's better for you than YOU do.  And he'll lie his ass off as long as he needs to in order to prove it to you!

Friggin' dopey libs.  Someone even made a comment earlier today that us baby-boomers can't die fast enough.  Well guess what?  When we're all gone, who's gonna support you?  Not the poor, they can't.  And not the rich (since they don't pay any taxes, right?)  So who?  Certainly not your own fat 'entitled' asses.

 
2013-11-02 04:22:35 PM
FTFA: "Congress authorized no funds for federal 'fallback' exchanges," the Tea Party Patriots website noted as long ago as last December. "So Washington may not be able to impose exchanges on states at all." The group went on to suggest that since Washington was not equipped to handle so many state exchanges, "both financially and otherwise - this means the entire law could implode on itself."

So basically if they couldn't kill the ACA with the required number of votes their Plan B was to opt out state by state in order to overload the Federal exchanges just so they could point to the rocky roll out and claim failure?

Hoping for failure is a type of hope, I guess.

 ...a less acknowledged cause

For now that's true at least as far as the corporate media goes.

I still hold that over time history will not judge kindly the people who actively worked to make life tougher than it need or should be for their fellow citizens by fighting this baby step towards progress every inch of the way.
 
2013-11-02 04:41:55 PM
mr lawson:
img.fark.net


That's a really amusing image, and I'd actually laugh at it and share it on facebook (even though I'm a liberal) if it said "Healthcare.gov."

As it stands however, it comes across as just enough of a douche-y dishonest right wing attempt to conflate "healthcare.gov" with the entirety of the "affordable care act", that it kills the humor.

It's ta fantastic example of why conservatives can't do comedy. They always have to take a step too far into anger or "messaging" and let their desire to oversell a stance ruin the joke.
 
2013-11-02 05:08:36 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Seriously? I mean... seriously? I've been following this story in the news and here on Fark since the first day, and I have not seen even one single person say "There are no problems with the rollout." Not one.


I'm sorry to hear about your blindness. Luckily the text-to-speech software is pretty damn good though.
 
2013-11-02 05:30:49 PM

slayer199: Wow, what an amazing concept.  I'm a Systems Engineer (VMware).  All I know is that devs HATE testing (it's always the server, network, etc...that's the problem), but they hate getting negative feedback from everyone when their code breaks.  Apparently, that's not a problem if you're a government contractor and you've already got paid.


Actually, we're fine with testing.  It's just that management tends to remove it from the  schedule to get the system "finished" on schedule.
 
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