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(LA Times)   So, the lady who's been making the rounds on cable news claiming that Obamacare is causing her to trade her cheap plan for an expensive one? Well, one reporter actually followed up with her on this, with unsurprising results   (latimes.com) divider line 415
    More: Interesting  
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8362 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2013 at 2:10 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-01 03:55:23 PM

skullkrusher: Marcus Aurelius: skullkrusher: Marcus Aurelius: And the reporters who interviewed her without getting all the facts produced inexcusably shoddy work -- from Maria Bartiromo on down

Maria Bartiromo is a complete tool.

I'd put my tool in her shed. Even at this age

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to wreck her shed.  She just doesn't deserve to be called a reporter.

It's long been rumored that she spent as much time on her knees with financial leaders as she did interviewing them


I did not know she was religious. She should pray in private.
 
2013-11-01 03:55:24 PM

JusticeandIndependence: [www.trbimg.com image 600x415]

What is the picture about?


It's an ad some state exchange was running to encourage bros to sign up for "brosurance."
 
2013-11-01 03:55:35 PM

whidbey: jst3p: whidbey: Whodat: jst3p: Whodat: I think that it boils down to the fact that when Obama said, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.", he was not telling the truth. It doesn't matter if the plan is a better one. He said it repeatedly with no caveats. It is also coming out that when he said it, many in the administration knew this to be untrue.

Surely this will cost him his re-election.

I don't see that happening. Obama's standing in the next election has already been decided by those in power. :)

Actually the people are going to overwhelmingly elect another Democrat because they support what they're doing and the Republicans are acting like spoiled children with no plan for the future.

I'm sure that's what you meant by that.

I have a hard time seeing a path that elects a Republican. They have a lot of damage control to do and their last couple choices of candidates were really not viable from day one. I am sure they have smarter minds than mine working on it so I am looking forward to seeing where they go from here, but they have a lot of warts to deal with.

I could see them running Christie as a moderate, but he's still a homophobic wannabe people's hero.

All anyone would have to do is watch his speech endorsing Romney at the RNC if you want to see what a worthless suckup he is, but I'm pretty sure that moment is already forgotten. I sure as fark wouldn't vote for him.


The problem with Christie is that it keeps the base that didn't think Romney or McCain was conservative enough from coming out to vote.

The election is a long way away, but I don't see Christie beating anyone that the Dems are talking about running.
 
2013-11-01 03:57:14 PM

JusticeandIndependence: [www.trbimg.com image 600x415]

What is the picture about?


That's begging for a photoshop / meme for it.
 
2013-11-01 03:57:40 PM

skullkrusher: It's long been rumored that she spent as much time on her knees with financial leaders as she did interviewing them


A Citicorp exec (Todd Thompson) got fired for jetting her around, if you know what I mean.
 
2013-11-01 03:59:37 PM

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


I should introduce you to my friend.  He had a stroke at 26 due to MS.  He's blind in one eye and walks with a cane.  And that's on his good days.

Go get some god damn insurance.
 
2013-11-01 03:59:48 PM

skozlaw: Your claims are unverifiable. There is little recourse but to assume you are either lying outright or by omission. I'll color your posts appropriately so I don't mistake you as somebody honest in the future. Good day.


This is Tyee we are talking about. The guy who actively cheered on the Somali pirates because he hates Obama so much.
 
2013-11-01 04:00:20 PM

JusticeandIndependence: Coming soon on Lifetime.....

[www.theminorityreportblog.com image 702x339]


Don't knock it, the providers are pretty hot:

ate.allthatsepic.netdna-cdn.com

blog.zap2it.com

So long as you appreciate Stevie Nicks, the health care services aren't bad.
 
2013-11-01 04:00:46 PM
FTFA:
Cavallaro told me a couple of things that are worth considering. First, what she likes about her current plan is that she can go to any doctor of her choice and any hospital. That's not entirely true, because her current plan with Anthem does favor a network. Plainly, however, it's broad enough to serve her purposes. She's concerned that the new plans will offer smaller networks, which is probably true, though it's not necessarily true that the new networks will exclude her favorite doctors, hospitals or prescription formularies.

She also mentioned that her annual income fluctuates. It can be substantially lower, or substantially higher, than it is this year. What if next year she earns too much to qualify for the subsidy? Also a fair point -- at her current income, the subsidy is worth more than $200 a month to her. But that's not the same as saying that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," because at her current income, the act is vastly more affordable to her than what she's paying now.

 
TFA does a nice job of glossing issues that seem to be important to this person.

She's definitely a farktard for not having done her homework. But speaking as someone whose plan (that includes dental and vision) is being discontinued, and the cheapest ACA for which I qualify is $43 more per month  without dental and vision, I can understand the frustration.
 
2013-11-01 04:00:56 PM

skozlaw: Serious Black: If I could take my direct employer contribution with me to the exchanges, I would do so in a heartbeat. I can more than afford 50% coinsurances, especially if I would be saving $1,200-1,600 a year on my premium.

Actually, depending on your circumstances, your employer and you might get some additional big benefits starting next year. Age banding will still occur (so if your premiums are jumping because you employ a bunch of old people that will continue), but if the reason was that you have a large number of young, female employees and your company is relatively small, you might see some big benefits when that kicks.


As I've noted here in the past (and I thought was a bit obvious from who my insurer is), I work for Uncle Sam. My insurance going into next year is not changing substantially from what it was when I started my job four years ago. All plans on the FEHBP met or exceeded the minimum essential benefits package back then, and the program also had guaranteed issue rules at the time. The one big benefit change I can recall is a drastic increase in the smoking cessation benefit, but that hit in 2011.
 
2013-11-01 04:01:20 PM

whidbey: You're gone from here as far as I'm concerned.


I have long since lost much interest in what concerns you.  Your idealism aside, you can sometimes show signs of comprehension, unfortunately as you blindly march along into oblivion you're taking us with you.  Go if you must but don't bring us with you.

$
 
2013-11-01 04:01:31 PM
Clearly, the Obama junta has conspired with the private market to offer this woman insurance.

You have no idea how deep the conspiracy goes.
 
2013-11-01 04:01:36 PM

Tyee: skozlaw:..... current premium, premium of the next closest plan, state, age and income so that all this can be validated with facts, please.

So you want transparency and numbers from a private person, posted on the interwebs, ...is that because you can't get info from your government... b/c that won't release its numbers information on sign ups?

You find an 8% increase in a Cadillac plan difficult to believe or understand?  Really? That increase to Cadillac plans is about the only thing Obama promised that is happening as promised.

I need a drink.  On to happy hour.  First round is on me, just like your health care.

$ more.


Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.  Your plan is really that good?  What Obama promised was a tax on Cadillac plans to discourage their use, since its well established that such plans tend to drive up medical cost inflation.

That tax doesn't start until 2018.

So in what way is your plan increase out of the ordinary from prior year to year increases?  What leads you to believe it's exclusively the fault of the ACA?
 
2013-11-01 04:02:53 PM

PanicMan: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

I should introduce you to my friend.  He had a stroke at 26 due to MS.  He's blind in one eye and walks with a cane.  And that's on his good days.

Go get some god damn insurance.


This is why I avoid buying MS products whenever I can.

/LINUX for life!
 
2013-11-01 04:02:55 PM
s7.postimg.org
 
2013-11-01 04:03:00 PM

Tyee: skozlaw:..... current premium, premium of the next closest plan, state, age and income so that all this can be validated with facts, please.

So you want transparency and numbers from a private person, posted on the interwebs, ...is that because you can't get info from your government... b/c that won't release its numbers information on sign ups?

You find an 8% increase in a Cadillac plan difficult to believe or understand?  Really? That increase to Cadillac plans is about the only thing Obama promised that is happening as promised.

I need a drink.  On to happy hour.  First round is on me, just like your health care.

$ more.


Yes, you have a cadillac health plan.  The details you cited for it are so damn good and so damn affordable that I have trouble believing it.
 
2013-11-01 04:03:20 PM

whidbey: spman: No, I fully expect to be roundly criticized no matter what, ever since Fark went all derpy derpy liberal.

Or maybe you either haven't thought what you're saying through or perhaps they're so out of touch with real people's needs you deserve the criticism.

Sorry that liberals irritate you.


Hey spman where'd you go? Too bad your ideas weren't as automagically indefensible as you thought they were.
 
2013-11-01 04:03:33 PM

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


In Soviet Georgiastan, they force me, a supposedly free citizen, to purchase auto insurance.  First, there is nothing in the Constitution that says anything about horse insurance so why do I need insurance on a car.   Second, I don't need insurance anyway.  I've never crashed.  If these trends continue....
 
2013-11-01 04:03:36 PM
I love how people act like their insurance premiums never went up before Obamacare.

Also, maybe Obama misspoke when he promised that people could keep their insurance. But he probably didn't consider policies that cover nothing, have astronomical deductibles that would probably bankrupt you anyway, and only allow you to see doctors twice a year "insurance."
 
2013-11-01 04:04:26 PM

JusticeandIndependence: [www.trbimg.com image 600x415]

What is the picture about?


It is part of a Colorado campaign to get the word out to the college bros to signup. Because it has a keg in it, of course it was a hot point for the Repubs. They grilled Sebelius about it even though it was a state run, not federal exchange.

Of course, had the fed gotten involved, the GOPpies would have been screaming about states' rights.

devcentral.f5.com
 
2013-11-01 04:04:38 PM

skozlaw: Your claims are unverifiable.


Those claims were promised, and they rang true.  Why you find it improbable eludes me.

Tell me why you don't think the high end insurance plans wouldn't go up in cost?  Obama told you they would, and he was right about that one.
 
2013-11-01 04:05:15 PM

Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.


Under the PPACA, a 'cadillac plan' is one that exceeds $10,200/yr for individuals or $27,500/yr for a family (not including vision and dental benefits).
 
2013-11-01 04:06:10 PM

Tyee: whidbey: You're gone from here as far as I'm concerned.

I have long since lost much interest in what concerns you.  Your idealism aside, you can sometimes show signs of comprehension, unfortunately as you blindly march along into oblivion you're taking us with you.  Go if you must but don't bring us with you.

$


Um, no. You're the one on trial here. And projecting your failure onto me is also pathetic.

Given that you are incapable of getting your rather childish selfish reasons across. I can only conclude that you are trolling this thread and are of no value to Fark whatsoever.

I mean, really. If you're actually the person you claim to be, then you should be able to produce more than the embarrassing crap you've been posting.

Post that bullshiat again and I have no choice but to report you to this site.
 
2013-11-01 04:06:11 PM

jst3p: PanicMan: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

I should introduce you to my friend.  He had a stroke at 26 due to MS.  He's blind in one eye and walks with a cane.  And that's on his good days.

Go get some god damn insurance.

This is why I avoid buying MS products whenever I can.

/LINUX for life!


Ok I larfed.


I'll just have a seat over here.
 
2013-11-01 04:06:42 PM

spman: InmanRoshi: spman: You think the guy who makes between $30,000 - $40,000 a year and barely scrapes by due to his modest standard of living can afford to pay between $250 - $350 a month?


Why yes. Yes I can. Car paid off. No collision on it. Slightly slower internet speed. Virgin Mobile cell phone. Plus ACA subsidy. Finally after 5 years without health insurance I can finally afford a decent policy that isn't a rip off. Thanks Obama.
 
2013-11-01 04:08:06 PM

whidbey: The really funny thing about this is that we're not even talking about single payer or UHC.

I can't imagine the mountains of derp that are going to fall when we get to that point in our society.

It's going to be tragicomic.


I see single payer thrown around a lot on Fark (and else where).  Ideally, I agree on the concept and think it would provide the most efficient health care experience for the patient.

I think that is what draws so many people towards it is the experience for the patient.  I think what a lot of people do not understand is just how big the insurance industry is and how many people it employs.  I don't have any data (and frankly, I don't think many companies do either), but if you analyze the life cycle of a claim I would guess that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs, if not millions that depend on it.

For any one particular claim, there are 100's, if not 1000's of people who have touched the technical system, the administrative piece and even the actual working of the claim.  In other words, the politician who suggests single payer and finds a way to pass it, would most likely have to do it in his/her second term with the House and Senate on his/her side.  There's no way that's first term legislation given the amount of real job loss it would cause.

I believe this is a major factor why President Obama did not suggest it.  Well, this and the fact that he thought the right would champion with him given that it was their plan.  But I can almost guarantee that it weighed in the decision as well as not fighting as hard for the public option.
 
2013-11-01 04:08:39 PM
I really hate it when I go to a fast food restaurant and they have those little packets of ketchup for people to just take! I don't even like the stuff so why should I have to pay more for my Cheese Burger when I'm never going to use it?!?! It's outrageous and should be stopped. All condiments should be charged for separately so things can be fair for everybody. I shouldn't have to help pay for something I don't use.


/Restaurant = ACA
//Cheese Burger = Health Care
///Ketchup = anything not male related
////Really I don't like ketchup but I don't expect a farking discount.
 
2013-11-01 04:08:54 PM

Mad_Radhu: JusticeandIndependence: Coming soon on Lifetime.....

[www.theminorityreportblog.com image 702x339]

Don't knock it, the providers are pretty hot:





So long as you appreciate Stevie Nicks, the health care services aren't bad.


And moms jacking off their Frankensons
 
2013-11-01 04:09:30 PM

Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.


Re-signed up last month, October, going up 8%  $$.
I really can't understand why this is hard to believe.  It is what was promised and it really is consistent with what is going on in the market.
 
2013-11-01 04:09:44 PM

whidbey: I have no choice but to report you to this site


what site
 
2013-11-01 04:10:05 PM
Over the last few weeks there's been lots of Farkers who have commented saying "Thanks Obama! I'm being dropped from insurance, and getting new insurance will cost me more!"

When challenged to provide actual information they either flounder and give bullshiat (not providing facts to back up their statement) or they just disappear.
 
2013-11-01 04:10:09 PM

sprawl15: Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.

Under the PPACA, a 'cadillac plan' is one that exceeds $10,200/yr for individuals or $27,500/yr for a family (not including vision and dental benefits).


theinfosphere.org
 
2013-11-01 04:11:52 PM

whidbey: Whodat: jst3p: Whodat: I think that it boils down to the fact that when Obama said, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.", he was not telling the truth. It doesn't matter if the plan is a better one. He said it repeatedly with no caveats. It is also coming out that when he said it, many in the administration knew this to be untrue.

Surely this will cost him his re-election.

I don't see that happening. Obama's standing in the next election has already been decided by those in power. :)

Actually the people are going to overwhelmingly elect another Democrat because they support what they're doing and the Republicans are acting like spoiled children with no plan for the future.

I'm sure that's what you meant by that.


I'm sure that you are wrong.
 
2013-11-01 04:11:58 PM

maweimer9: whidbey: The really funny thing about this is that we're not even talking about single payer or UHC.

I can't imagine the mountains of derp that are going to fall when we get to that point in our society.

It's going to be tragicomic.

I see single payer thrown around a lot on Fark (and else where).  Ideally, I agree on the concept and think it would provide the most efficient health care experience for the patient.

I think that is what draws so many people towards it is the experience for the patient.  I think what a lot of people do not understand is just how big the insurance industry is and how many people it employs.  I don't have any data (and frankly, I don't think many companies do either), but if you analyze the life cycle of a claim I would guess that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs, if not millions that depend on it.

For any one particular claim, there are 100's, if not 1000's of people who have touched the technical system, the administrative piece and even the actual working of the claim.  In other words, the politician who suggests single payer and finds a way to pass it, would most likely have to do it in his/her second term with the House and Senate on his/her side.  There's no way that's first term legislation given the amount of real job loss it would cause.

I believe this is a major factor why President Obama did not suggest it.  Well, this and the fact that he thought the right would champion with him given that it was their plan.  But I can almost guarantee that it weighed in the decision as well as not fighting as hard for the public option.


I prefer UHC taken right out of our taxes.

But the point is the mandate. People can biatch about ACA all they like, but no matter what we eventually end up with, there is going to still have to be a mandate to get it to work, whether it's this or single-payer or UHC.

In other words, basic fear and ignorance of positive (and necessary) societal progression
 
2013-11-01 04:13:15 PM

haemaker: He should have said, "If you like the plan you have, and the insurance company continues to offer it, you can keep it".


He should have said "If your current plan is sub-standard, you will be able to get a better plan at an affordable rate."
 
2013-11-01 04:14:23 PM

Tyee: Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.

Re-signed up last month, October, going up 8%  $$.
I really can't understand why this is hard to believe.  It is what was promised and it really is consistent with what is going on in the market.


Ok, you've got a Cadillac plan.  Congratulations.

Again, the excise tax on Cadillac plans doesn't kick in for 4 years, so why do you believe this cost increase is the fault of the ACA.  How is it out of line with previous year over year increases?
 
2013-11-01 04:15:22 PM

Stile4aly: Tyee: Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.

Re-signed up last month, October, going up 8%  $$.
I really can't understand why this is hard to believe.  It is what was promised and it really is consistent with what is going on in the market.

Ok, you've got a Cadillac plan.  Congratulations.

Again, the excise tax on Cadillac plans doesn't kick in for 4 years, so why do you believe this cost increase is the fault of the ACA.  How is it out of line with previous year over year increases?


Because OBAMA!
 
2013-11-01 04:15:48 PM

Whodat: whidbey: Whodat: jst3p: Whodat: I think that it boils down to the fact that when Obama said, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.", he was not telling the truth. It doesn't matter if the plan is a better one. He said it repeatedly with no caveats. It is also coming out that when he said it, many in the administration knew this to be untrue.

Surely this will cost him his re-election.

I don't see that happening. Obama's standing in the next election has already been decided by those in power. :)

Actually the people are going to overwhelmingly elect another Democrat because they support what they're doing and the Republicans are acting like spoiled children with no plan for the future.

I'm sure that's what you meant by that.

I'm sure that you are wrong.


I might be wrong about what you meant, but I'm pretty sure facts trump whatever paranoid conspiracy you were attempting to foist on us.
 
2013-11-01 04:16:03 PM

sprawl15: whidbey: I have no choice but to report you to this site

what site


Healthcare.gov
 
2013-11-01 04:16:31 PM

maweimer9: whidbey: The really funny thing about this is that we're not even talking about single payer or UHC.

I can't imagine the mountains of derp that are going to fall when we get to that point in our society.

It's going to be tragicomic.

I see single payer thrown around a lot on Fark (and else where).  Ideally, I agree on the concept and think it would provide the most efficient health care experience for the patient.

I think that is what draws so many people towards it is the experience for the patient.  I think what a lot of people do not understand is just how big the insurance industry is and how many people it employs.  I don't have any data (and frankly, I don't think many companies do either), but if you analyze the life cycle of a claim I would guess that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs, if not millions that depend on it.

For any one particular claim, there are 100's, if not 1000's of people who have touched the technical system, the administrative piece and even the actual working of the claim.  In other words, the politician who suggests single payer and finds a way to pass it, would most likely have to do it in his/her second term with the House and Senate on his/her side.  There's no way that's first term legislation given the amount of real job loss it would cause.

I believe this is a major factor why President Obama did not suggest it.  Well, this and the fact that he thought the right would champion with him given that it was their plan.  But I can almost guarantee that it weighed in the decision as well as not fighting as hard for the public option.


Sure, a complete shift to Medicare for All would cause a lot of job losses and likely tip us into a recession of our own doing, much like the demobilization after WWII did. But it would make the country stronger and probably grow faster in the long run. Hell, if you just plowed all of the private health care spending into the public system and instantly cut down to the admin costs of Medicare, you'd save the country about $700 billion a year. I can think of a lot of productive things we could do with $700 billion a year.
 
2013-11-01 04:16:45 PM

whidbey: Post that bullshiat again and I have no choice but to report you to this site.


What bullshait?
For what its worth this site really isn't what it used to be.  It used to be discussion and thought, now its name calling.

whidbey, do what you must tough guy, tell your mom too.

I'm paying more, I was lied to, so were you.  I'm lucky I get to keep a plan I like but have to pay more.
Don't like to hear it?  As I said, I have long since lost much interest in what concerns you. I'd still buy you a beer if you ever get to St. Paul.

~out
 
2013-11-01 04:17:24 PM

skullkrusher: sprawl15: whidbey: I have no choice but to report you to this site

what site

Healthcare.gov


Reported. Sebelius will not be pleased.
 
2013-11-01 04:17:51 PM

Tyee: whidbey: Post that bullshiat again and I have no choice but to report you to this site.

What bullshait?
For what its worth this site really isn't what it used to be.  It used to be discussion and thought, now its name calling.

whidbey, do what you must tough guy, tell your mom too.

I'm paying more, I was lied to, so were you.  I'm lucky I get to keep a plan I like but have to pay more.
Don't like to hear it?  As I said, I have long since lost much interest in what concerns you. I'd still buy you a beer if you ever get to St. Paul.

~out


Whidbey is the type that would come for a beer and spend 2 weeks on your couch
 
2013-11-01 04:18:03 PM

GoldSpider: haemaker: He should have said, "If you like the plan you have, and the insurance company continues to offer it, you can keep it".

He should have said "If your current plan is sub-standard, you will be able to get a better plan at an affordable rate."


That wouldn't have assuaged the people who were falling prey to the status quo bias. They wanted to keep their sub-standard plan, damnit!
 
2013-11-01 04:18:26 PM

dr_blasto: skullkrusher: sprawl15: whidbey: I have no choice but to report you to this site

what site

Healthcare.gov

Reported. Sebelius will not be pleased.


Ffffffaaaaaarrrrrkkkkkkk
 
2013-11-01 04:18:39 PM

Tyee: whidbey: Post that bullshiat again and I have no choice but to report you to this site.

What bullshait?
For what its worth this site really isn't what it used to be.  It used to be discussion and thought, now its name calling.

whidbey, do what you must tough guy, tell your mom too.

I'm paying more, I was lied to, so were you.  I'm lucky I get to keep a plan I like but have to pay more.
Don't like to hear it?  As I said, I have long since lost much interest in what concerns you. I'd still buy you a beer if you ever get to St. Paul.

~out


Wait.

You said Obama told you that you'd pay more. You said you're paying more. You even noted that this was the factual thing Obama told you.

Now you're being lied to?

I hope your plan covers mental health as well.
 
2013-11-01 04:19:14 PM

skullkrusher: sprawl15: whidbey: I have no choice but to report you to this site

what site

Healthcare.gov


uh oh that cadillac plan is gonna be cash 4 clunker'd
 
2013-11-01 04:19:15 PM

Tyee: I'm paying more


Most of us have been paying more, every single year.
 
2013-11-01 04:19:36 PM

Stile4aly: Tyee: Stile4aly: Cadillac plans cost about $1K per month per person.

Re-signed up last month, October, going up 8%  $$.
I really can't understand why this is hard to believe.  It is what was promised and it really is consistent with what is going on in the market.

Ok, you've got a Cadillac plan.  Congratulations.

Again, the excise tax on Cadillac plans doesn't kick in for 4 years, so why do you believe this cost increase is the fault of the ACA.  How is it out of line with previous year over year increases?


Because the Glorious Benevolent Job Creators would never screw honest, hardworking citizens and blame it on someone else.
 
2013-11-01 04:19:38 PM

skullkrusher: Whidbey is the type that would come for a beer and spend 2 weeks on your couch


Oh, never mind whidbey.

~gone for reals
 
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